Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

[Guest guest]

But don't forget, only helicopters have the special atmosphere necessary to

perform RSI ;-)

-Wes

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

We, as a City, have the right to " direct the public health of our

citizens " and by rights, that means that we have the right to control

who may come into our city to pick up our patients and who may not.

We have a permitting process within our City, established by ordinance

by the City Commission. Any provider may come into our City and

request to be permitted and we are happy to do the inspections and

permit the service. I don't believe we even charge for our permits.

(I may be wrong so don't quote me on this yet) We are not after

money, we are after properly stocked and manned EMS units treating our

citizens. We can also ban certain departments or services from

entering our city to pick up patients if we feel as though it would

not be safe for our citizens.

> > > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > > call.

> >

> > Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> > resisting.

> > Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> > duties?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

But don't forget, only helicopters have the special atmosphere necessary to

perform RSI ;-)

-Wes

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

We, as a City, have the right to " direct the public health of our

citizens " and by rights, that means that we have the right to control

who may come into our city to pick up our patients and who may not.

We have a permitting process within our City, established by ordinance

by the City Commission. Any provider may come into our City and

request to be permitted and we are happy to do the inspections and

permit the service. I don't believe we even charge for our permits.

(I may be wrong so don't quote me on this yet) We are not after

money, we are after properly stocked and manned EMS units treating our

citizens. We can also ban certain departments or services from

entering our city to pick up patients if we feel as though it would

not be safe for our citizens.

> > > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > > call.

> >

> > Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> > resisting.

> > Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> > duties?

> >

> > Mike

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

To answer the last question first, There is a difference between a

permit issue and me getting a ticket for speeding. Getting a

speeding ticket is a result of my actions, and I would deserve to

get one. As far as permits go, I'm not responsible for my bosses

dropping the ball, so no, I would not sign the citation and would

refer the officer to my supervisor. As I mentioned, that is an

issue that should have been taken up with the services management,

not the street medic.

Also, you are correct, there was not a mention of treatment being

provided at the time, I admit that I misread the story. Instead,

after seeing the statement from Baystar I see that the medics were

prevented from reaching the scene by a city official within line of

sight of the scene. makes me wonder if the shouting being heard

over the radio was the medic (after being thrown on the ground, I

might have a choice word or two), or distraught family members

running up to find out what the problem was. Been there, seen that.

Question, if a permit issue was the problem, and a city EMS

supervisor was there, what would be wron with Baystar medics

providing initial care under that officials supervision until a

permitted ambulance arrives, and then getting with Baystars

management. To me that would have been in the best interest to all

concerned, but I realize that might make too much sense.

Crosby

EMT-B

>

> There's nothing in the story about being hassled while providing

treatment.

>

>

>

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> This does not sound like any treatment that I'm aware of.

>

>

>

> Understanding that this is a newspaper clipping, we don't have the

full

> facts as they occurred, we were not there. I'm certain that the

legal

> system along with DSHS will determine what the facts are and take

the

> appropriate actions if founded.

>

>

>

> It does not speak highly of the ambulance company management to

knowingly

> send their employees into an area where they do not have the

proper permits

> for operation. That's asking for trouble. IF they had the proper

permit.

> this probably would not even be a story.

>

>

>

> " Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to start the process but they never followed through, "

Nolen

> said. "

>

>

>

> If you're cited in a company vehicle. do you sign the ticket or do

you wait

> for a company representative? What about speeding?? Or a traffic

accident??

> You ARE the operator of the vehicle and you ARE responsible.

>

>

>

> Jack

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of Crosby, E

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:16 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help

from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least

that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time

and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street

medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that

neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to

be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would

take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story

might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have

done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard

questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@a...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really

matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from

the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?

ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted

arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung,

refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance

passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city

permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to

ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city

began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS

and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive

language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

To answer the last question first, There is a difference between a

permit issue and me getting a ticket for speeding. Getting a

speeding ticket is a result of my actions, and I would deserve to

get one. As far as permits go, I'm not responsible for my bosses

dropping the ball, so no, I would not sign the citation and would

refer the officer to my supervisor. As I mentioned, that is an

issue that should have been taken up with the services management,

not the street medic.

Also, you are correct, there was not a mention of treatment being

provided at the time, I admit that I misread the story. Instead,

after seeing the statement from Baystar I see that the medics were

prevented from reaching the scene by a city official within line of

sight of the scene. makes me wonder if the shouting being heard

over the radio was the medic (after being thrown on the ground, I

might have a choice word or two), or distraught family members

running up to find out what the problem was. Been there, seen that.

Question, if a permit issue was the problem, and a city EMS

supervisor was there, what would be wron with Baystar medics

providing initial care under that officials supervision until a

permitted ambulance arrives, and then getting with Baystars

management. To me that would have been in the best interest to all

concerned, but I realize that might make too much sense.

Crosby

EMT-B

>

> There's nothing in the story about being hassled while providing

treatment.

>

>

>

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> This does not sound like any treatment that I'm aware of.

>

>

>

> Understanding that this is a newspaper clipping, we don't have the

full

> facts as they occurred, we were not there. I'm certain that the

legal

> system along with DSHS will determine what the facts are and take

the

> appropriate actions if founded.

>

>

>

> It does not speak highly of the ambulance company management to

knowingly

> send their employees into an area where they do not have the

proper permits

> for operation. That's asking for trouble. IF they had the proper

permit.

> this probably would not even be a story.

>

>

>

> " Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to start the process but they never followed through, "

Nolen

> said. "

>

>

>

> If you're cited in a company vehicle. do you sign the ticket or do

you wait

> for a company representative? What about speeding?? Or a traffic

accident??

> You ARE the operator of the vehicle and you ARE responsible.

>

>

>

> Jack

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of Crosby, E

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:16 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help

from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least

that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time

and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street

medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that

neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to

be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would

take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story

might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have

done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard

questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@a...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really

matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from

the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?

ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted

arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung,

refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance

passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city

permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to

ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city

began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS

and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive

language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I know in Dallas, the city Cites individuals if THEIR OWN permints are involved,

but cites the company for COMPANY level infractions( Both providers and

individuals must per permitted to run in the city). Ask me HOW I know this!

[Guest guest]

I know in Dallas, the city Cites individuals if THEIR OWN permints are involved,

but cites the company for COMPANY level infractions( Both providers and

individuals must per permitted to run in the city). Ask me HOW I know this!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/2005 5:39:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

What I was addressing, though, was the lesser of two evils between no

municipal licenses or permits for transfer ambulances and a hodgepodge of

municipal ordinances requiring licenses or permits.

What I think might work better then that hodgepodge is some type of state

law (perhaps in the form of a rule from TXDSHS?) saying that if your not the

designated provider of 9-1-1 (EMS) services for an area and receive a 9-1-1 call

for EMS service than you are then required to notify via the designated

9-1-1 (EMS) provider (for that area) via phone, radio whatever the designated

EMS Provider states is appropriate.

One thing that the story stated was that this was done and the " offending "

service " received permission " to respond, to me that is key in the whole

argument is it not?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/2005 5:39:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

What I was addressing, though, was the lesser of two evils between no

municipal licenses or permits for transfer ambulances and a hodgepodge of

municipal ordinances requiring licenses or permits.

What I think might work better then that hodgepodge is some type of state

law (perhaps in the form of a rule from TXDSHS?) saying that if your not the

designated provider of 9-1-1 (EMS) services for an area and receive a 9-1-1 call

for EMS service than you are then required to notify via the designated

9-1-1 (EMS) provider (for that area) via phone, radio whatever the designated

EMS Provider states is appropriate.

One thing that the story stated was that this was done and the " offending "

service " received permission " to respond, to me that is key in the whole

argument is it not?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/2005 5:39:47 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

What I was addressing, though, was the lesser of two evils between no

municipal licenses or permits for transfer ambulances and a hodgepodge of

municipal ordinances requiring licenses or permits.

What I think might work better then that hodgepodge is some type of state

law (perhaps in the form of a rule from TXDSHS?) saying that if your not the

designated provider of 9-1-1 (EMS) services for an area and receive a 9-1-1 call

for EMS service than you are then required to notify via the designated

9-1-1 (EMS) provider (for that area) via phone, radio whatever the designated

EMS Provider states is appropriate.

One thing that the story stated was that this was done and the " offending "

service " received permission " to respond, to me that is key in the whole

argument is it not?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

6. The helicopters should be armed so that the slower helicopters have a

chance by shooting the faster ones out of the sky.

I can just see all the old military Dust Off medics drooling and starting to

twitch a little...

Jeff

Jeff Ellison, EMT

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Shopping

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

[Guest guest]

6. The helicopters should be armed so that the slower helicopters have a

chance by shooting the faster ones out of the sky.

I can just see all the old military Dust Off medics drooling and starting to

twitch a little...

Jeff

Jeff Ellison, EMT

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Shopping

Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

[Guest guest]

Okay Mike,

I'll bite...how do you know this???

Signed,

Awaiting a Good Story

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I know in Dallas, the city Cites individuals if THEIR OWN permints are involved,

but cites the company for COMPANY level infractions( Both providers and

individuals must per permitted to run in the city). Ask me HOW I know this!

[Guest guest]

Okay Mike,

I'll bite...how do you know this???

Signed,

Awaiting a Good Story

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I know in Dallas, the city Cites individuals if THEIR OWN permints are involved,

but cites the company for COMPANY level infractions( Both providers and

individuals must per permitted to run in the city). Ask me HOW I know this!

[Guest guest]

Okay Mike,

I'll bite...how do you know this???

Signed,

Awaiting a Good Story

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I know in Dallas, the city Cites individuals if THEIR OWN permints are involved,

but cites the company for COMPANY level infractions( Both providers and

individuals must per permitted to run in the city). Ask me HOW I know this!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dudley...but the story isn't all that good. As a manager I received a

citation for one of my Employees not having their City permit ON THEM during his

shift. And apparently there is a rule that says the Provider can be fined for

allowing them to work in violation of the ordinance.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dudley...but the story isn't all that good. As a manager I received a

citation for one of my Employees not having their City permit ON THEM during his

shift. And apparently there is a rule that says the Provider can be fined for

allowing them to work in violation of the ordinance.

[Guest guest]

I am currently awaiting to hear if I passed my paramedic test now and am

currently employed full time for a 911 provider. Prior to entering EMS I was

employed full time as a Police officer for several years, so I have experienced

issues from both sides of the fence.There seems to be quite a few folks that do

not realize that obtaining permit to operate in some areas is routine practice.

I am not defending anyone in this issue but the proper way to have managed this

would be to sign the ticket then report it to their supervisor and contest the

validity of the ticket in court if you so chose. You can bet that there were

powers above this individual Officer that were directing the enforcement of this

ordinance. I know that I had no knowledge of the laws prior to entering EMS and

would bet that this Officer did not either unless directed by other local

authorities.

Crosby wrote: To answer the last question first,

There is a difference between a

permit issue and me getting a ticket for speeding. Getting a

speeding ticket is a result of my actions, and I would deserve to

get one. As far as permits go, I'm not responsible for my bosses

dropping the ball, so no, I would not sign the citation and would

refer the officer to my supervisor. As I mentioned, that is an

issue that should have been taken up with the services management,

not the street medic.

Also, you are correct, there was not a mention of treatment being

provided at the time, I admit that I misread the story. Instead,

after seeing the statement from Baystar I see that the medics were

prevented from reaching the scene by a city official within line of

sight of the scene. makes me wonder if the shouting being heard

over the radio was the medic (after being thrown on the ground, I

might have a choice word or two), or distraught family members

running up to find out what the problem was. Been there, seen that.

Question, if a permit issue was the problem, and a city EMS

supervisor was there, what would be wron with Baystar medics

providing initial care under that officials supervision until a

permitted ambulance arrives, and then getting with Baystars

management. To me that would have been in the best interest to all

concerned, but I realize that might make too much sense.

Crosby

EMT-B

>

> There's nothing in the story about being hassled while providing

treatment.

>

>

>

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> This does not sound like any treatment that I'm aware of.

>

>

>

> Understanding that this is a newspaper clipping, we don't have the

full

> facts as they occurred, we were not there. I'm certain that the

legal

> system along with DSHS will determine what the facts are and take

the

> appropriate actions if founded.

>

>

>

> It does not speak highly of the ambulance company management to

knowingly

> send their employees into an area where they do not have the

proper permits

> for operation. That's asking for trouble. IF they had the proper

permit.

> this probably would not even be a story.

>

>

>

> " Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to start the process but they never followed through, "

Nolen

> said. "

>

>

>

> If you're cited in a company vehicle. do you sign the ticket or do

you wait

> for a company representative? What about speeding?? Or a traffic

accident??

> You ARE the operator of the vehicle and you ARE responsible.

>

>

>

> Jack

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of Crosby, E

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:16 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help

from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least

that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time

and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street

medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that

neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to

be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would

take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story

might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have

done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard

questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@a...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really

matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from

the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?

ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted

arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung,

refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance

passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city

permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to

ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city

began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS

and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive

language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am currently awaiting to hear if I passed my paramedic test now and am

currently employed full time for a 911 provider. Prior to entering EMS I was

employed full time as a Police officer for several years, so I have experienced

issues from both sides of the fence.There seems to be quite a few folks that do

not realize that obtaining permit to operate in some areas is routine practice.

I am not defending anyone in this issue but the proper way to have managed this

would be to sign the ticket then report it to their supervisor and contest the

validity of the ticket in court if you so chose. You can bet that there were

powers above this individual Officer that were directing the enforcement of this

ordinance. I know that I had no knowledge of the laws prior to entering EMS and

would bet that this Officer did not either unless directed by other local

authorities.

Crosby wrote: To answer the last question first,

There is a difference between a

permit issue and me getting a ticket for speeding. Getting a

speeding ticket is a result of my actions, and I would deserve to

get one. As far as permits go, I'm not responsible for my bosses

dropping the ball, so no, I would not sign the citation and would

refer the officer to my supervisor. As I mentioned, that is an

issue that should have been taken up with the services management,

not the street medic.

Also, you are correct, there was not a mention of treatment being

provided at the time, I admit that I misread the story. Instead,

after seeing the statement from Baystar I see that the medics were

prevented from reaching the scene by a city official within line of

sight of the scene. makes me wonder if the shouting being heard

over the radio was the medic (after being thrown on the ground, I

might have a choice word or two), or distraught family members

running up to find out what the problem was. Been there, seen that.

Question, if a permit issue was the problem, and a city EMS

supervisor was there, what would be wron with Baystar medics

providing initial care under that officials supervision until a

permitted ambulance arrives, and then getting with Baystars

management. To me that would have been in the best interest to all

concerned, but I realize that might make too much sense.

Crosby

EMT-B

>

> There's nothing in the story about being hassled while providing

treatment.

>

>

>

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> This does not sound like any treatment that I'm aware of.

>

>

>

> Understanding that this is a newspaper clipping, we don't have the

full

> facts as they occurred, we were not there. I'm certain that the

legal

> system along with DSHS will determine what the facts are and take

the

> appropriate actions if founded.

>

>

>

> It does not speak highly of the ambulance company management to

knowingly

> send their employees into an area where they do not have the

proper permits

> for operation. That's asking for trouble. IF they had the proper

permit.

> this probably would not even be a story.

>

>

>

> " Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to start the process but they never followed through, "

Nolen

> said. "

>

>

>

> If you're cited in a company vehicle. do you sign the ticket or do

you wait

> for a company representative? What about speeding?? Or a traffic

accident??

> You ARE the operator of the vehicle and you ARE responsible.

>

>

>

> Jack

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of Crosby, E

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:16 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help

from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least

that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time

and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street

medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that

neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to

be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would

take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story

might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have

done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard

questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto:texasems-

l ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@a...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really

matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from

the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?

ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted

arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung,

refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance

passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city

permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to

ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city

began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS

and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive

language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte

police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle

down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and

screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The city of Dallas has a team of " highly trained operatives " to police this

ridiculous ordinance and generate tons of revenue for, yet another, struggling

city.

[Guest guest]

The city of Dallas has a team of " highly trained operatives " to police this

ridiculous ordinance and generate tons of revenue for, yet another, struggling

city.

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Worse yet, it could be a fly by night publicly funded company.

Yes, they are out there.

bkw

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Worse yet, it could be a fly by night publicly funded company.

Yes, they are out there.

bkw

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wes,

Worse yet, it could be a fly by night publicly funded company.

Yes, they are out there.

bkw

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I cannot attest to the specific incident described here, but I know virtually

all of the parties involved in this incident and I agree it is an unfortunate

situation no matter what the circumstances. All are persons of good character

and so it is important in my opinion to let the facts come forward with time. It

appears in their own way each party was concerned for the patient from their own

perspective.

I would like to say that Chief Nolan and the LaPorte EMS staff as well as the

City Manager and City Council are working very hard to assure that (1) LPEMS is

called when a 911 emergency medical situation occurs in LaPorte and (2) that

private ambulance services responding in LaPorte are properly staffed and

equipped via the permitting process, (3) quality patient care is better assured

for the citizens of LP by utilizing the rapid response capabilities of the MICU

system there. With over 150 private ambulance services in the Houston area, the

city of LaPorte has taken steps to try to regulate the quality of private

ambulance service for the citizens of LaPorte by requiring the permitting of

ambulances responding in their city.

If you would like more information on the LP ordinance go to www.ghemsc.org and

to the Municipalities with EMS Ordinances link.

I sincerely hope this all can be worked through to a positive end.

-joe hamilton

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said. " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I cannot attest to the specific incident described here, but I know virtually

all of the parties involved in this incident and I agree it is an unfortunate

situation no matter what the circumstances. All are persons of good character

and so it is important in my opinion to let the facts come forward with time. It

appears in their own way each party was concerned for the patient from their own

perspective.

I would like to say that Chief Nolan and the LaPorte EMS staff as well as the

City Manager and City Council are working very hard to assure that (1) LPEMS is

called when a 911 emergency medical situation occurs in LaPorte and (2) that

private ambulance services responding in LaPorte are properly staffed and

equipped via the permitting process, (3) quality patient care is better assured

for the citizens of LP by utilizing the rapid response capabilities of the MICU

system there. With over 150 private ambulance services in the Houston area, the

city of LaPorte has taken steps to try to regulate the quality of private

ambulance service for the citizens of LaPorte by requiring the permitting of

ambulances responding in their city.

If you would like more information on the LP ordinance go to www.ghemsc.org and

to the Municipalities with EMS Ordinances link.

I sincerely hope this all can be worked through to a positive end.

-joe hamilton

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said. " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>