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Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

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what I heard was the Paramedic that was arrested

basically refused to sign the ticket till the

Supervisor should up, becuase he was performing pt

care at the time, the other two medics on scene signed

the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

call.

roumors or not this is what said...

drake

--- Jack Pitcock wrote:

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

>

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested

> for disorderly conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and

> resisted arrest when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the

> city without a permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used

> excessive force in unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic,

> iel Jung, refused to sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has

> officially been charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by

> his side and the officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and

> took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte

> city ordinance passed last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to

> attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are

> required to ensure private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper

> equipment and understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of

> contacts with our inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, "

> Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed

> until the city began a new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call

> from a La Porte resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified

> La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's

> all, " said. " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and

> used abusive language and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the

> citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, "

> said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling

> him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the

> cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

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Guest guest

what I heard was the Paramedic that was arrested

basically refused to sign the ticket till the

Supervisor should up, becuase he was performing pt

care at the time, the other two medics on scene signed

the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

call.

roumors or not this is what said...

drake

--- Jack Pitcock wrote:

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

>

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested

> for disorderly conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and

> resisted arrest when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the

> city without a permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used

> excessive force in unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic,

> iel Jung, refused to sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has

> officially been charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by

> his side and the officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and

> took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte

> city ordinance passed last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to

> attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are

> required to ensure private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper

> equipment and understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of

> contacts with our inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, "

> Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed

> until the city began a new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call

> from a La Porte resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified

> La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's

> all, " said. " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and

> used abusive language and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the

> citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, "

> said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling

> him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the

> cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

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Guest guest

what I heard was the Paramedic that was arrested

basically refused to sign the ticket till the

Supervisor should up, becuase he was performing pt

care at the time, the other two medics on scene signed

the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

call.

roumors or not this is what said...

drake

--- Jack Pitcock wrote:

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

>

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested

> for disorderly conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and

> resisted arrest when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the

> city without a permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used

> excessive force in unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic,

> iel Jung, refused to sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has

> officially been charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by

> his side and the officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and

> took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte

> city ordinance passed last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to

> attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are

> required to ensure private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper

> equipment and understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of

> contacts with our inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, "

> Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed

> until the city began a new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call

> from a La Porte resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified

> La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's

> all, " said. " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and

> used abusive language and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the

> citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, "

> said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling

> him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the

> cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

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Guest guest

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what is

truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the wounds this

one article inflicts on our profession...in these neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said. " There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

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Guest guest

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what is

truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the wounds this

one article inflicts on our profession...in these neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said. " There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

Share this post


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Guest guest

You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

of city officials.

Crosby

EMT-B

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

" There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

Share this post


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Guest guest

You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

of city officials.

Crosby

EMT-B

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

" There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

Share this post


Link to post
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Guest guest

You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

of city officials.

Crosby

EMT-B

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

" There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

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Guest guest

In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:21:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,

jrpitcock@... writes:

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

emergency policies in the city.

My first question is for the legal beagle types. Can a City in Texas do

this? I know that it was tried in NJ and DE for a time and was deemed illegal

in

those states as EMS services were state regulated but that in PA and MA they

do it all the time (mostly in the large cities) but the difference being that

NJ and DE are States and both PA and MA are Commonwealths so their laws are

much different in structure.

So in that vein can a city in Texas create such a " required permit " for an

already state licensed EMS service?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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Guest guest

In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:21:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,

jrpitcock@... writes:

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

emergency policies in the city.

My first question is for the legal beagle types. Can a City in Texas do

this? I know that it was tried in NJ and DE for a time and was deemed illegal

in

those states as EMS services were state regulated but that in PA and MA they

do it all the time (mostly in the large cities) but the difference being that

NJ and DE are States and both PA and MA are Commonwealths so their laws are

much different in structure.

So in that vein can a city in Texas create such a " required permit " for an

already state licensed EMS service?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

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In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:21:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,

jrpitcock@... writes:

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and understand

emergency policies in the city.

My first question is for the legal beagle types. Can a City in Texas do

this? I know that it was tried in NJ and DE for a time and was deemed illegal

in

those states as EMS services were state regulated but that in PA and MA they

do it all the time (mostly in the large cities) but the difference being that

NJ and DE are States and both PA and MA are Commonwealths so their laws are

much different in structure.

So in that vein can a city in Texas create such a " required permit " for an

already state licensed EMS service?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 12:32:04 A.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what is

truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the wounds

this one article inflicts on our profession...in these neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Dudley you make a good point there.

You'd think we could resolve something like this a bit more privately as

opposed to publicly. No good here not for the public the provider or even the LE

agency or city.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 12:32:04 A.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what is

truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the wounds

this one article inflicts on our profession...in these neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Dudley you make a good point there.

You'd think we could resolve something like this a bit more privately as

opposed to publicly. No good here not for the public the provider or even the LE

agency or city.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 12:32:04 A.M. Central Standard Time,

THEDUDMAN@... writes:

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what is

truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the wounds

this one article inflicts on our profession...in these neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Dudley you make a good point there.

You'd think we could resolve something like this a bit more privately as

opposed to publicly. No good here not for the public the provider or even the LE

agency or city.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/28/2005 10:41:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,

drakedunivan@... writes:

what I heard was the Paramedic that was arrested basically refused to sign

the ticket till the Supervisor should up,

Next legal question. If I refuse to sign said ticket what would be the

" normal " course of action for the LEO? Is refusing to sign what I'm seeing here

is

a ticket for an offence by definition " resisting " ? To me as both a street

level EMS provider and as a Supervisor I can see the actions of the street

medic as appropriate and not unreasonable (assuming the Supervisor is en route)

but my view is shaded.

That and by the end of the week we will hear 20 versions if not 50.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 10:26:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,

rxmd911@... writes:

I think that the family should be sueing the City, the police officer and

the police department. This officer sounds like he just wanted to make a

point. Someone should beat the hell out of that officer, because the officer

handled the situation in the wrong way.

Wayne you're placing a lot of faith on the media report aren't you?

This incident has to have what something like 5 or more parties involved let

alone witnesses, the LE officer, the medic, the partner, the patient and

since the article said family was present at least one member of the family and

that's the minimum. I doubt the media interviewed them all and if they did I

would hope that the cop, medic and partner were smart enough not to comment

to the media.

Everyone is so fast to sue these days.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 10:26:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,

rxmd911@... writes:

I think that the family should be sueing the City, the police officer and

the police department. This officer sounds like he just wanted to make a

point. Someone should beat the hell out of that officer, because the officer

handled the situation in the wrong way.

Wayne you're placing a lot of faith on the media report aren't you?

This incident has to have what something like 5 or more parties involved let

alone witnesses, the LE officer, the medic, the partner, the patient and

since the article said family was present at least one member of the family and

that's the minimum. I doubt the media interviewed them all and if they did I

would hope that the cop, medic and partner were smart enough not to comment

to the media.

Everyone is so fast to sue these days.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 10:26:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,

rxmd911@... writes:

I think that the family should be sueing the City, the police officer and

the police department. This officer sounds like he just wanted to make a

point. Someone should beat the hell out of that officer, because the officer

handled the situation in the wrong way.

Wayne you're placing a lot of faith on the media report aren't you?

This incident has to have what something like 5 or more parties involved let

alone witnesses, the LE officer, the medic, the partner, the patient and

since the article said family was present at least one member of the family and

that's the minimum. I doubt the media interviewed them all and if they did I

would hope that the cop, medic and partner were smart enough not to comment

to the media.

Everyone is so fast to sue these days.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:02:53 A.M. Central Standard Time,

manemtp@... writes:

Lou, MANY Cities in Texas have what they call Certificates of Necessity, or

permits...very common.

So ANY city can do it or are the size limitations etc. In NJ and De we did

away with them (same name BTW) both at the city and state level in the 1990's

might have even been the 80's?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:02:53 A.M. Central Standard Time,

manemtp@... writes:

Lou, MANY Cities in Texas have what they call Certificates of Necessity, or

permits...very common.

So ANY city can do it or are the size limitations etc. In NJ and De we did

away with them (same name BTW) both at the city and state level in the 1990's

might have even been the 80's?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

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Same in Beaumont. $25.00 a year.

Andy

In a message dated 12/29/2005 8:44:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Heck, here in Austin, transfer services have to apply to Austin EMS for

permission to operate within the city limits.

-Wes

-----Original Message-----

To:

Sent: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:13:45 -0600 (CST)

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike :)

>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS

> Article health wellness

> Center for health and wellness

> Health and wellness

> Health and wellness program

> Health wellness product

> Health and wellness job

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

> Visit your group " " on the web.

>

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Same in Beaumont. $25.00 a year.

Andy

In a message dated 12/29/2005 8:44:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Heck, here in Austin, transfer services have to apply to Austin EMS for

permission to operate within the city limits.

-Wes

-----Original Message-----

To:

Sent: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:13:45 -0600 (CST)

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike :)

>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS

> Article health wellness

> Center for health and wellness

> Health and wellness

> Health and wellness program

> Health wellness product

> Health and wellness job

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

> Visit your group " " on the web.

>

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Guest guest

Same in Beaumont. $25.00 a year.

Andy

In a message dated 12/29/2005 8:44:30 A.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Heck, here in Austin, transfer services have to apply to Austin EMS for

permission to operate within the city limits.

-Wes

-----Original Message-----

To:

Sent: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:13:45 -0600 (CST)

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

In her infinitely motherly wisdom, my mother always said there were three

sides to every story, mine, yours, and what really happened.

The media is not known for reporting ALL the facts, only the ones that

make interesting reading. Curious how this one will turn out.

How many cities actually require services to get permits to operate inside

their limits still? I can think of a couple. Corpus Christi still, or at

least did not long ago, make the medics themselves get a permit to operate

inside the city limits. 10.00 per year.

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

>

> > the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> > away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> > for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> > rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> > call.

>

> Case law requires an actual & quot;act in furtherance of & quot; to get

> resisting.

> Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

> duties?

>

> Mike :)

>

>

> SPONSORED LINKS

> Article health wellness

> Center for health and wellness

> Health and wellness

> Health and wellness program

> Health wellness product

> Health and wellness job

> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

> Visit your group " " on the web.

>

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Guest guest

As one who plays both sides of the fence, I can understand what's

going on in the provider's minds, and in the cops minds. Needless to

say, enforcing permitting requirements against street medics seems

pointless. Are the street medics the ones personally responsible for

obtaining individual permits? If not, why not get their information

and cite the company via mail? That's a legal option in Texas.

OTOH, getting belligerent with a police officer who's probably been

ordered to " make a point " with these " unpermitted medics " wasn't a

happy choice, either. There's arguements around whether or not this

involved patient care, but I have to wonder how out-of-town EMS

organizations are supposed to know whether every city they possibly

respond to requires a separate permit.

Mike :)

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

As one who plays both sides of the fence, I can understand what's

going on in the provider's minds, and in the cops minds. Needless to

say, enforcing permitting requirements against street medics seems

pointless. Are the street medics the ones personally responsible for

obtaining individual permits? If not, why not get their information

and cite the company via mail? That's a legal option in Texas.

OTOH, getting belligerent with a police officer who's probably been

ordered to " make a point " with these " unpermitted medics " wasn't a

happy choice, either. There's arguements around whether or not this

involved patient care, but I have to wonder how out-of-town EMS

organizations are supposed to know whether every city they possibly

respond to requires a separate permit.

Mike :)

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

> of city officials.

>

>

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

>

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

>

>

>

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