Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

December 29, 2005

As one who plays both sides of the fence, I can understand what's

going on in the provider's minds, and in the cops minds. Needless to

say, enforcing permitting requirements against street medics seems

pointless. Are the street medics the ones personally responsible for

obtaining individual permits? If not, why not get their information

and cite the company via mail? That's a legal option in Texas.

OTOH, getting belligerent with a police officer who's probably been

ordered to " make a point " with these " unpermitted medics " wasn't a

happy choice, either. There's arguements around whether or not this

involved patient care, but I have to wonder how out-of-town EMS

organizations are supposed to know whether every city they possibly

respond to requires a separate permit.

Mike

> You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

> citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

> how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

> ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

> called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

> management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

> That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

> would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

> location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

> I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

> whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

> offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

> have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

> same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

> of city officials.

>

> Crosby

>

> EMT-B

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

> Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

> is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

> wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

> neighborhoods. Ouch.

>

> Dudley

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

> Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

>

> By

> <http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

> 6d35

> fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

> Baytown Sun

>

> Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

>

> A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

> conduct

> after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

>

> La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

> when

> Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

> permit,

> but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

> unnecessarily

> arresting the medic.

>

> Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

> sign

> the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

> charged

> with resisting arrest.

>

> " He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

> officer

> came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

>

> Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

> last

> year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

>

> La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

> private

> ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

> understand

> emergency policies in the city.

>

> Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

>

> " It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

> inspectors to

> start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

>

> Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

> new

> permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

>

> said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

> resident

> who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

> cleared to respond to the call, said.

>

> " He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

> " There

> was nothing for them to take him down. "

>

> But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

> and

> stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

>

> " On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

> Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

> wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

> front of all those people is not necessary. "

>

December 29, 2005

> the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> call.

Case law requires an actual " act in furtherance of " to get resisting.

Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

duties?

Mike

December 29, 2005

> the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> call.

Case law requires an actual " act in furtherance of " to get resisting.

Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

duties?

Mike

December 29, 2005

> the citation. The PD garbed his arm and he jerked

> away, then PD preceeded to take him down to the ground

> for resisting arrest ... after that I didn't hear the

> rest of the story becuase I was dispatched to another

> call.

Case law requires an actual " act in furtherance of " to get resisting.

Maybe they actually charged him with interference with official

duties?

Mike

December 29, 2005

In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:41:25 A.M. Central Standard Time,

texaslp@... writes:

Let us, as fellow EMS and LE Professionals wait until all of the facts are

present before we jump to conclusions and public floggings.

Ah but that would be uncharacteristic of many of us

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

December 29, 2005

In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:41:25 A.M. Central Standard Time,

texaslp@... writes:

Let us, as fellow EMS and LE Professionals wait until all of the facts are

present before we jump to conclusions and public floggings.

Ah but that would be uncharacteristic of many of us

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

December 29, 2005

In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:51:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

I'll settle this once and for all:

Is that not how they do it in rural Alaska?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

December 29, 2005

In a message dated 12/29/2005 11:51:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

I'll settle this once and for all:

Is that not how they do it in rural Alaska?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

December 29, 2005

There's nothing in the story about being hassled while providing treatment.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

This does not sound like any treatment that I'm aware of.

Understanding that this is a newspaper clipping, we don't have the full

facts as they occurred, we were not there. I'm certain that the legal

system along with DSHS will determine what the facts are and take the

appropriate actions if founded.

It does not speak highly of the ambulance company management to knowingly

send their employees into an area where they do not have the proper permits

for operation. That's asking for trouble. IF they had the proper permit.

this probably would not even be a story.

" Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

inspectors to start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen

said. "

If you're cited in a company vehicle. do you sign the ticket or do you wait

for a company representative? What about speeding?? Or a traffic accident??

You ARE the operator of the vehicle and you ARE responsible.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Crosby, E

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 1:16 AM

To:

Subject: RE: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

You mean a medic being arrested for responding to a call for help from a

citizen and being hassled while providing treatment. At least that's

how the story reads to me. I would remember that for a long time and

ask why the cops were interfering with a medic doing what they are

called to do. It seems the issue needed to be taken up with the

management of the EMS outfit in question than with the street medics.

That might be what is remembered by the folks of that neighborhood. I

would not have signed that citation either. If I'm dispatched to a

location, then I would assume that is someplace I'm supposed to be, and

I too would refer the cops to my supervisor and continue to treat

whomever called on us. Of course many of the cops I know would take

offense at their orders being ignored. The medic in the story might

have handled things better, but I thing the officers might have done the

same. If I were a citizen there, I would be asking some hard questions

of city officials.

Crosby

EMT-B

________________________________

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of THEDUDMAN@...

Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:28 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Lovely. One step forward, three steps back. Doesn't really matter what

is truth and what isn't...it will take a lot of time to heal from the

wounds this one article inflicts on our profession...in these

neighborhoods. Ouch.

Dudley

Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

By

<http://www.baytownsun.com/contact.lasso?ewcd=e1294085d816e50d038c7ada0b

6d35

fbf41ee6bc07dda007d0b813fdd15363e1> Austin Kinghorn

Baytown Sun

Published December 29, 2005 - Updated 25 minutes ago

A medic with Baytown-based Baystar EMS was arrested for disorderly

conduct

after responding to a call in La Porte on Wednesday.

La Porte police say the medic became belligerent and resisted arrest

when

Baystar was issued a citation for operating in the city without a

permit,

but the owner of Baystar claims police used excessive force in

unnecessarily

arresting the medic.

Baystar owner said the medic, iel Jung, refused to

sign

the citation until his supervisor arrived. Jung has officially been

charged

with resisting arrest.

" He never resisted, " said. " He had hands by his side and the

officer

came up and grabbed him in the back of the neck and took him down. "

Baystar was receiving a citation under a La Porte city ordinance passed

last

year that requires private ambulance operators to attain a city permit.

La Porte EMS chief Ray Nolen said the permits are required to ensure

private

ambulance medics are properly trained, have proper equipment and

understand

emergency policies in the city.

Nolen said Baystar has never received a permit.

" It's my understanding they made a couple of contacts with our

inspectors to

start the process but they never followed through, " Nolen said.

Enforcement of the new ordinance had been relaxed until the city began a

new

permit cycle on Oct. 1, Nolen said.

said the ambulance was responding to a call from a La Porte

resident

who was having trouble breathing. Baystar notified La Porte EMS and was

cleared to respond to the call, said.

" He was just there to help the patient and that's all, " said.

" There

was nothing for them to take him down. "

But La Porte police say Jung became combative and used abusive language

and

stood in the road after Baystar was issued the citation.

" On the radio traffic you could hear him swearing, " said La Porte police

Chief Reff. " The officer was just telling him to settle down. He

wasn't interested in arresting him but all the cussing and screaming in

front of all those people is not necessary. "

December 29, 2005