Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

[Guest guest]

" baystarems " <baystarems@m...> wrote:

>

> All we want at this point is for the charges to be dropped against

> our paramedic.

I certainly respect that, but I hope you eventually set your sights

higher. I want to see heads roll in LaPorte. The dispatcher, the EMS

supervisor, and the all cop fired at the very least. Decertification

for the EMS supervisor. Federal civil rights charges for the police

department. Major civil charges against the city from the family.

Rob

[Guest guest]

" baystarems " <baystarems@m...> wrote:

>

> All we want at this point is for the charges to be dropped against

> our paramedic.

I certainly respect that, but I hope you eventually set your sights

higher. I want to see heads roll in LaPorte. The dispatcher, the EMS

supervisor, and the all cop fired at the very least. Decertification

for the EMS supervisor. Federal civil rights charges for the police

department. Major civil charges against the city from the family.

Rob

[Guest guest]

By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came

up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Mike

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:03 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

> Yes before i'm blasted the city has a permit clause, but

> then the duty to act has been etablished with the call Baystar and

> LPEMS never acted until late.

Okay, so call me Rob, but how is there a DUTY to act when responding

to a private, non-emergency call for service? There is a CONTRACT to

act, an agreement between the caller and the private EMS service, but

DUTY involves an absolute requirement to perform an action - in this

case, to respond. Baystar had no DUTY, as they could have refused the

call for any number of reasons.

In this case, however, had it been an EMERGENCY call, LPEMS seems to

have the DUTY to act. Being a non-emergency call, their city

ordinance allows them to accept or reject the CONTRACT to act, or to

allow a licensed provider to accept that contract instead.

Regardless of the Baystar/LPEMS licensing agreement, whether or not

LPEMS rolled the call to Baystar (as it appears from dispatch

transcripts and witness statements they did), Baystar had no DUTY to

act, just a CONTRACTED AGREEMENT to respond.

Mike

[Guest guest]

By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came

up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, Texas

Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise!

http://proemseducators.com/index.html

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Mike

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:03 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

> Yes before i'm blasted the city has a permit clause, but

> then the duty to act has been etablished with the call Baystar and

> LPEMS never acted until late.

Okay, so call me Rob, but how is there a DUTY to act when responding

to a private, non-emergency call for service? There is a CONTRACT to

act, an agreement between the caller and the private EMS service, but

DUTY involves an absolute requirement to perform an action - in this

case, to respond. Baystar had no DUTY, as they could have refused the

call for any number of reasons.

In this case, however, had it been an EMERGENCY call, LPEMS seems to

have the DUTY to act. Being a non-emergency call, their city

ordinance allows them to accept or reject the CONTRACT to act, or to

allow a licensed provider to accept that contract instead.

Regardless of the Baystar/LPEMS licensing agreement, whether or not

LPEMS rolled the call to Baystar (as it appears from dispatch

transcripts and witness statements they did), Baystar had no DUTY to

act, just a CONTRACTED AGREEMENT to respond.

Mike

[Guest guest]

" E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP " <bbledsoe@e...> wrote:

>

> By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same

issue came

> up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law

stated.

The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard

of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call

screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911

caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance.

The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911

caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the

information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to

trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach

of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess.

LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into

commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under

false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly

for it.

Rob

[Guest guest]

" E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP " <bbledsoe@e...> wrote:

>

> By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same

issue came

> up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law

stated.

The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard

of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call

screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911

caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance.

The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911

caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the

information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to

trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach

of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess.

LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into

commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under

false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly

for it.

Rob

[Guest guest]

FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented

them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS

Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer.

Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in

the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting

(www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at.

Our organization have been in contact with each other since October

1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this.

> >

> > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same

> issue came

> > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law

> stated.

>

> The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I

heard

> of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call

> screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a

911

> caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance.

> The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the

911

> caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not,

the

> information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to

> trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major

breach

> of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess.

>

> LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into

> commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city

under

> false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay

dearly

> for it.

>

> Rob

>

[Guest guest]

FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented

them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS

Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer.

Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in

the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting

(www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at.

Our organization have been in contact with each other since October

1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this.

> >

> > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same

> issue came

> > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law

> stated.

>

> The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I

heard

> of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call

> screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a

911

> caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance.

> The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the

911

> caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not,

the

> information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to

> trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major

breach

> of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess.

>

> LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into

> commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city

under

> false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay

dearly

> for it.

>

> Rob

>

[Guest guest]

FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented

them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS

Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer.

Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in

the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting

(www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at.

Our organization have been in contact with each other since October

1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this.

> >

> > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same

> issue came

> > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law

> stated.

>

> The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I

heard

> of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call

> screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a

911

> caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance.

> The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the

911

> caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not,

the

> information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to

> trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major

breach

> of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess.

>

> LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into

> commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city

under

> false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay

dearly

> for it.

>

> Rob

>

[Guest guest]

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Wes, when I grow up, I wanna be JUST like you! What law school did you go to?

I want to apply there!!!

Mike

[Guest guest]

Wes, when I grow up, I wanna be JUST like you! What law school did you go to?

I want to apply there!!!

Mike

[Guest guest]

Seriously, when my 20 year attempt at a BS is over, I'd like to discuss LSAT's

with you :-)

[Guest guest]

I'll make up for it Lou, WHOOP!

[Guest guest]

Currently it is all speculation and as was noted time and again, only the

participating parties know the truth. I find it difficult to assume that BS

would disregard ALL regard for the local author ties and as they claim they were

" CLEARED " . Time and tapes will tell the truth.

Jack Pitcock wrote: LP could have already issued

multiple warnings to BayStar with no results..

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of parafireman04

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:37 AM

To:

Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Looks like also LPEMS

was waiting for a service to setup and enforce this clause on and

Baystar just happen to fall in place at the right time for them.

Jeff

FF/EMT-P

Houston

[Guest guest]

" hatfield " <hatfield@n...> wrote:

>

> What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved

need to

> sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a

repeat, kiss

> and make up, and walk away from the table.

I'm sure that's what Ray Nolan is praying for at this point. It beats

unemployment, which is what should happen at the very least. Both

DSHS and TCLEOSE need to take a hard look at his behaviour in this

incident.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Easy there big boy...

Dudley

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Nope, no maroon. I've got a real education, not a SPECIAL education. ;-)

Hook 'em and Guns Up,

Wes

In a message dated 12/30/2005 4:49:51 PM Central Standard Time,

lnmolino@... writes:

In a message dated 12/30/2005 4:46:50 P.M. Central Standard Time,

ExLngHrn@... writes:

Thanks Mike.... I'm blushing. BA in government and sociology from the

University of Texas. Master's in Public Administration from Texas State

University - San Marcos (formerly SW Texas State).... law degree from Texas

Tech

University in Lubbock.

-Wes

What no Maroon in those veins?

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well,

all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling

with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has

no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an

assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called,

they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's

it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc.

Things may have changed over the last few years.

Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come

out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that

everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened,

excluding the family and the patient.

What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to

sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss

and make up, and walk away from the table.

The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the

third side of the story either.:-)

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well,

all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling

with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has

no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an

assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called,

they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's

it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc.

Things may have changed over the last few years.

Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come

out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that

everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened,

excluding the family and the patient.

What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to

sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss

and make up, and walk away from the table.

The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the

third side of the story either.:-)

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well,

all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling

with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has

no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an

assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called,

they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's

it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc.

Things may have changed over the last few years.

Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come

out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that

everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened,

excluding the family and the patient.

What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to

sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss

and make up, and walk away from the table.

The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the

third side of the story either.:-)

Mike

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an

officer, in the take down of my paramedic.

Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping

arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply

requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident.

My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time

was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of

a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call

emergency traffic.

[Guest guest]

Hey Mike.....back in the day before I got out of LE, it was against

the law to resist " arrest " even if the arrest or " detention " was

unlawful/wrongful. Since none of us know the real story, assume the

cop was " roughing " the medic up, and the medic " defended " himself,

then the the medic could still be charged with " resisting arrest " if

there was " furtherence " or " interefering with the official duties of a

peace officer. " Not saying it's right, but isn't that still the case?

CB

[Guest guest]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock?

Kirk

EMT-B

[Guest guest]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock?

Kirk

EMT-B