Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

[Guest guest]

Actually, this would be more of a case for the Texas Rangers, not the

FBI, because this is not a Federal crime, unless you considder

violation of civil rights. The rangers usualy come in and investigate

these things as they are the offical watch dogs of Texas LE agencies.

The state IA bureau if you will. FBI would get involved only if there

was a USDOT or Civil Rights violation, which there could be.

Remember, Federal trumps state, State trumps local, and local trumps

nothing. Considdering we fall under Federal, State and local

guidelines, it is hard to say who would investigate this.

CB

>

> BUT, if it was an illegal arrest, then the Fan Belt Inspectors get

involved, it goes federal, and the payouts get BIGGER

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, this would be more of a case for the Texas Rangers, not the

FBI, because this is not a Federal crime, unless you considder

violation of civil rights. The rangers usualy come in and investigate

these things as they are the offical watch dogs of Texas LE agencies.

The state IA bureau if you will. FBI would get involved only if there

was a USDOT or Civil Rights violation, which there could be.

Remember, Federal trumps state, State trumps local, and local trumps

nothing. Considdering we fall under Federal, State and local

guidelines, it is hard to say who would investigate this.

CB

>

> BUT, if it was an illegal arrest, then the Fan Belt Inspectors get

involved, it goes federal, and the payouts get BIGGER

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, this would be more of a case for the Texas Rangers, not the

FBI, because this is not a Federal crime, unless you considder

violation of civil rights. The rangers usualy come in and investigate

these things as they are the offical watch dogs of Texas LE agencies.

The state IA bureau if you will. FBI would get involved only if there

was a USDOT or Civil Rights violation, which there could be.

Remember, Federal trumps state, State trumps local, and local trumps

nothing. Considdering we fall under Federal, State and local

guidelines, it is hard to say who would investigate this.

CB

>

> BUT, if it was an illegal arrest, then the Fan Belt Inspectors get

involved, it goes federal, and the payouts get BIGGER

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

To clarify my other statement. Federal law is it. However, the

state can establish laws which are more strict than the Feds, as

long as they build on the Federal statutes...........likewise, a

city can establish higher standards than the state or federal laws

as long as they build on those and don't allow more lax behavior.

One example is in San , it is illegal to carry a cross

locking blade knife. It's a city ordinance, even thought it's legal

under federal and state law, it is a class A misdemeanor under San

city ordinance, punnishable by up to 1 year in jail, and a

10,000 dollar fine. All due to the fact that Mayor Peak's friend's

son was stabbed by a kid with a Buck Cross Lock knife at NIOSA years

back. The exception to the rule is LE, EMS, Fire and Military can

carry them in the commission of their official duties, but the

average joe cannot. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. They

enforce the law all the time...........out of towners are the most

shocked. They lose their knife, usually get a citation, and in most

cases get it bumped down to a class B weapons possesion charge which

they get probation for or deferred adjudication for.........

CB

[Guest guest]

To clarify my other statement. Federal law is it. However, the

state can establish laws which are more strict than the Feds, as

long as they build on the Federal statutes...........likewise, a

city can establish higher standards than the state or federal laws

as long as they build on those and don't allow more lax behavior.

One example is in San , it is illegal to carry a cross

locking blade knife. It's a city ordinance, even thought it's legal

under federal and state law, it is a class A misdemeanor under San

city ordinance, punnishable by up to 1 year in jail, and a

10,000 dollar fine. All due to the fact that Mayor Peak's friend's

son was stabbed by a kid with a Buck Cross Lock knife at NIOSA years

back. The exception to the rule is LE, EMS, Fire and Military can

carry them in the commission of their official duties, but the

average joe cannot. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. They

enforce the law all the time...........out of towners are the most

shocked. They lose their knife, usually get a citation, and in most

cases get it bumped down to a class B weapons possesion charge which

they get probation for or deferred adjudication for.........

CB

[Guest guest]

COSA is infamous for trying to re-interpret the Penal Code, especially

in regards to weapons laws. Cities CANNOT create Penal Code offenses,

and violations of city ordinance may carry FINES only - they CANNOT

carry incarceration as a penalty (as such, they are not above the

grade of Class C Misdemeanor, and are not reportable on a criminal

history check).

From the Penal Code:

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact

or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an

offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section

shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed

by this code is legally enforceable.

Mike

On 12/30/05, Wallace Blum, EMT-Paramedic

wrote:

> To clarify my other statement. Federal law is it. However, the

> state can establish laws which are more strict than the Feds, as

> long as they build on the Federal statutes...........likewise, a

> city can establish higher standards than the state or federal laws

> as long as they build on those and don't allow more lax behavior.

> One example is in San , it is illegal to carry a cross

> locking blade knife. It's a city ordinance, even thought it's legal

> under federal and state law, it is a class A misdemeanor under San

> city ordinance, punnishable by up to 1 year in jail, and a

> 10,000 dollar fine. All due to the fact that Mayor Peak's friend's

> son was stabbed by a kid with a Buck Cross Lock knife at NIOSA years

> back. The exception to the rule is LE, EMS, Fire and Military can

> carry them in the commission of their official duties, but the

> average joe cannot. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. They

> enforce the law all the time...........out of towners are the most

> shocked. They lose their knife, usually get a citation, and in most

> cases get it bumped down to a class B weapons possesion charge which

> they get probation for or deferred adjudication for.........

>

> CB

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

COSA is infamous for trying to re-interpret the Penal Code, especially

in regards to weapons laws. Cities CANNOT create Penal Code offenses,

and violations of city ordinance may carry FINES only - they CANNOT

carry incarceration as a penalty (as such, they are not above the

grade of Class C Misdemeanor, and are not reportable on a criminal

history check).

From the Penal Code:

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact

or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an

offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section

shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed

by this code is legally enforceable.

Mike

On 12/30/05, Wallace Blum, EMT-Paramedic

wrote:

> To clarify my other statement. Federal law is it. However, the

> state can establish laws which are more strict than the Feds, as

> long as they build on the Federal statutes...........likewise, a

> city can establish higher standards than the state or federal laws

> as long as they build on those and don't allow more lax behavior.

> One example is in San , it is illegal to carry a cross

> locking blade knife. It's a city ordinance, even thought it's legal

> under federal and state law, it is a class A misdemeanor under San

> city ordinance, punnishable by up to 1 year in jail, and a

> 10,000 dollar fine. All due to the fact that Mayor Peak's friend's

> son was stabbed by a kid with a Buck Cross Lock knife at NIOSA years

> back. The exception to the rule is LE, EMS, Fire and Military can

> carry them in the commission of their official duties, but the

> average joe cannot. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. They

> enforce the law all the time...........out of towners are the most

> shocked. They lose their knife, usually get a citation, and in most

> cases get it bumped down to a class B weapons possesion charge which

> they get probation for or deferred adjudication for.........

>

> CB

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

COSA is infamous for trying to re-interpret the Penal Code, especially

in regards to weapons laws. Cities CANNOT create Penal Code offenses,

and violations of city ordinance may carry FINES only - they CANNOT

carry incarceration as a penalty (as such, they are not above the

grade of Class C Misdemeanor, and are not reportable on a criminal

history check).

From the Penal Code:

§ 1.08. PREEMPTION. No governmental subdivision or agency may enact

or enforce a law that makes any conduct covered by this code an

offense subject to a criminal penalty. This section

shall apply only as long as the law governing the conduct proscribed

by this code is legally enforceable.

Mike

On 12/30/05, Wallace Blum, EMT-Paramedic

wrote:

> To clarify my other statement. Federal law is it. However, the

> state can establish laws which are more strict than the Feds, as

> long as they build on the Federal statutes...........likewise, a

> city can establish higher standards than the state or federal laws

> as long as they build on those and don't allow more lax behavior.

> One example is in San , it is illegal to carry a cross

> locking blade knife. It's a city ordinance, even thought it's legal

> under federal and state law, it is a class A misdemeanor under San

> city ordinance, punnishable by up to 1 year in jail, and a

> 10,000 dollar fine. All due to the fact that Mayor Peak's friend's

> son was stabbed by a kid with a Buck Cross Lock knife at NIOSA years

> back. The exception to the rule is LE, EMS, Fire and Military can

> carry them in the commission of their official duties, but the

> average joe cannot. And ignorance of the law is no excuse. They

> enforce the law all the time...........out of towners are the most

> shocked. They lose their knife, usually get a citation, and in most

> cases get it bumped down to a class B weapons possesion charge which

> they get probation for or deferred adjudication for.........

>

> CB

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

All these opinions (mine included) based on the assumption (and we know all

about those) that the media (remember these guys?) report was factual,

accurate and above all described all the details completely.

Figure the odds.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Hatfield FF/EMT-P

All these opinions (mine included) based on the assumption (and we know all

about those) that the media (remember these guys?) report was factual,

accurate and above all described all the details completely.

Figure the odds.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike,

The Federal Magistrate here held up that the law was constitutional

because it reinforced the Federal and State laws, making them

tougher, but not altereing their intent. The exception is LE, EMS,

Fire, and Military. It has been tested several times in State

District Court here and in Municipal court, and appealed to the

federal court system. They upheld that the city may strengthen or

add on to the penal codes, but may not eliminate portions of them.

In otherwords, if they want to make it stronger, they may, but they

may not make it weaker. There have been several contests of the

law, primarily from out of towners, and they have all lost.

Basically, rather than the jail term and fine, they get their knife

confiscated, they get a court citation for a lesser charge of

carrying an illegal weapon, and get probation, or a fine. To my

knowledge, nobody has faced actual jail time yet. Just community

service, fines, and probation. They got really serious about it

when the Mayor's son's best friend was stabbed by a gang banger at

NIOSA several years back with a Buck Cross Lock. It incited a

panick, and the public voted in an election to institute the city

ordinance and it is a " no tollerance " ordinance. Fixed blades over

4 " are also prohibited. Most of the problems were at mass

gatherings. You may posess it, but not carry it on your person or

in your car in the city limits. So, it has to stay at home, or you

can take it to the hunting lease / ranch, etc............but get

caught with it in your pocket visible, and they cuff you and process

you, confiscate your knife, which I am sure the cops are keeping for

themselves, and they have a near 100% conviction rate on the

ordinance. They popped a group of rodeo cowboys on the riverwalk

last year before the SA stock show and rodeo and ran them all in for

it. The judge publicly stated " ignorance is no excuse " . They were

released ROR, but without their knives. It's total BS.

CB

[Guest guest]

Mike,

The Federal Magistrate here held up that the law was constitutional

because it reinforced the Federal and State laws, making them

tougher, but not altereing their intent. The exception is LE, EMS,

Fire, and Military. It has been tested several times in State

District Court here and in Municipal court, and appealed to the

federal court system. They upheld that the city may strengthen or

add on to the penal codes, but may not eliminate portions of them.

In otherwords, if they want to make it stronger, they may, but they

may not make it weaker. There have been several contests of the

law, primarily from out of towners, and they have all lost.

Basically, rather than the jail term and fine, they get their knife

confiscated, they get a court citation for a lesser charge of

carrying an illegal weapon, and get probation, or a fine. To my

knowledge, nobody has faced actual jail time yet. Just community

service, fines, and probation. They got really serious about it

when the Mayor's son's best friend was stabbed by a gang banger at

NIOSA several years back with a Buck Cross Lock. It incited a

panick, and the public voted in an election to institute the city

ordinance and it is a " no tollerance " ordinance. Fixed blades over

4 " are also prohibited. Most of the problems were at mass

gatherings. You may posess it, but not carry it on your person or

in your car in the city limits. So, it has to stay at home, or you

can take it to the hunting lease / ranch, etc............but get

caught with it in your pocket visible, and they cuff you and process

you, confiscate your knife, which I am sure the cops are keeping for

themselves, and they have a near 100% conviction rate on the

ordinance. They popped a group of rodeo cowboys on the riverwalk

last year before the SA stock show and rodeo and ran them all in for

it. The judge publicly stated " ignorance is no excuse " . They were

released ROR, but without their knives. It's total BS.

CB

[Guest guest]

Mike,

The Federal Magistrate here held up that the law was constitutional

because it reinforced the Federal and State laws, making them

tougher, but not altereing their intent. The exception is LE, EMS,

Fire, and Military. It has been tested several times in State

District Court here and in Municipal court, and appealed to the

federal court system. They upheld that the city may strengthen or

add on to the penal codes, but may not eliminate portions of them.

In otherwords, if they want to make it stronger, they may, but they

may not make it weaker. There have been several contests of the

law, primarily from out of towners, and they have all lost.

Basically, rather than the jail term and fine, they get their knife

confiscated, they get a court citation for a lesser charge of

carrying an illegal weapon, and get probation, or a fine. To my

knowledge, nobody has faced actual jail time yet. Just community

service, fines, and probation. They got really serious about it

when the Mayor's son's best friend was stabbed by a gang banger at

NIOSA several years back with a Buck Cross Lock. It incited a

panick, and the public voted in an election to institute the city

ordinance and it is a " no tollerance " ordinance. Fixed blades over

4 " are also prohibited. Most of the problems were at mass

gatherings. You may posess it, but not carry it on your person or

in your car in the city limits. So, it has to stay at home, or you

can take it to the hunting lease / ranch, etc............but get

caught with it in your pocket visible, and they cuff you and process

you, confiscate your knife, which I am sure the cops are keeping for

themselves, and they have a near 100% conviction rate on the

ordinance. They popped a group of rodeo cowboys on the riverwalk

last year before the SA stock show and rodeo and ran them all in for

it. The judge publicly stated " ignorance is no excuse " . They were

released ROR, but without their knives. It's total BS.

CB

[Guest guest]

P.S. The way it was explained to me by the regional director for DSHS

South was that if you received a call for an emergent call, and you

had a unit available, you had a duty to act even if you are a private

for proffit, and don't run regular 911. The only exception to the

rule is if you find another service to run the call for you

in " reasonable " time. It's one of those things that depending on who

you talk to, you get a different story.

Later and god night,

CB

[Guest guest]

P.S. The way it was explained to me by the regional director for DSHS

South was that if you received a call for an emergent call, and you

had a unit available, you had a duty to act even if you are a private

for proffit, and don't run regular 911. The only exception to the

rule is if you find another service to run the call for you

in " reasonable " time. It's one of those things that depending on who

you talk to, you get a different story.

Later and god night,

CB

[Guest guest]

P.S. The way it was explained to me by the regional director for DSHS

South was that if you received a call for an emergent call, and you

had a unit available, you had a duty to act even if you are a private

for proffit, and don't run regular 911. The only exception to the

rule is if you find another service to run the call for you

in " reasonable " time. It's one of those things that depending on who

you talk to, you get a different story.

Later and god night,

CB

[Guest guest]

I might have missed your reply to my message, or maybe a spam blocker

ate one of our messages, so I'll try again. Is your paramedic OK? Not

digging for details or anything, I was just hoping he didn't get hurt.

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Keir

You are right and for that I do apologize to all involved in the

Greater Houston EMS Council. I should have never mentioned them.

I, sincerely, apologize to everyone on this group for what I said. I

am just simply saddened by the events, which have taken place and

only want the best for my paramedic.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

This email and its attachments, if any, are intended for the personal use of the

named recipient(s) and may contain confidential, privileged, or proprietary

information. If you are not a named recipient, or an agent responsible for

delivering it to a named recipient, you have received this email in error. In

that event, please (a) immediately notify me by reply email, ( do not review,

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immediately delete and/or destroy this email and its attachments and all

electronic and physical copies thereof. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

[Guest guest]

I might have missed your reply to my message, or maybe a spam blocker

ate one of our messages, so I'll try again. Is your paramedic OK? Not

digging for details or anything, I was just hoping he didn't get hurt.

Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

Keir

You are right and for that I do apologize to all involved in the

Greater Houston EMS Council. I should have never mentioned them.

I, sincerely, apologize to everyone on this group for what I said. I

am just simply saddened by the events, which have taken place and

only want the best for my paramedic.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

This email and its attachments, if any, are intended for the personal use of the

named recipient(s) and may contain confidential, privileged, or proprietary

information. If you are not a named recipient, or an agent responsible for

delivering it to a named recipient, you have received this email in error. In

that event, please (a) immediately notify me by reply email, ( do not review,

copy, save, forward, or print this email or any of its attachments, and ©

immediately delete and/or destroy this email and its attachments and all

electronic and physical copies thereof. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

[Guest guest]

Crosby, E wrote:

> I might have missed your reply to my message, or maybe a spam blocker

> ate one of our messages, so I'll try again. Is your paramedic OK? Not

> digging for details or anything, I was just hoping he didn't get hurt.

I might have missed this in the multiple re's but why was the LaPorte

EMS supervisor playing cop instead of Paramedic. Did he not have a duty to act

being that this occured in his city/jusitiction?

Stuart

[Guest guest]

Crosby, E wrote:

> I might have missed your reply to my message, or maybe a spam blocker

> ate one of our messages, so I'll try again. Is your paramedic OK? Not

> digging for details or anything, I was just hoping he didn't get hurt.

I might have missed this in the multiple re's but why was the LaPorte

EMS supervisor playing cop instead of Paramedic. Did he not have a duty to act

being that this occured in his city/jusitiction?

Stuart

[Guest guest]

Crosby, E wrote:

> I might have missed your reply to my message, or maybe a spam blocker

> ate one of our messages, so I'll try again. Is your paramedic OK? Not

> digging for details or anything, I was just hoping he didn't get hurt.

I might have missed this in the multiple re's but why was the LaPorte

EMS supervisor playing cop instead of Paramedic. Did he not have a duty to act

being that this occured in his city/jusitiction?

Stuart

[Guest guest]

Kirk,

A Buck Cross Lock is a Buck hunting knife with a locking mechanism

which uses a cross lock type device to hold the blade in place so it

doesn't close on you during use. Think of it as the typical folding

knife that we use in EMS.

Later,

CB

>

> Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock?

>

> Kirk

> EMT-B

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kirk,

A Buck Cross Lock is a Buck hunting knife with a locking mechanism

which uses a cross lock type device to hold the blade in place so it

doesn't close on you during use. Think of it as the typical folding

knife that we use in EMS.

Later,

CB

>

> Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock?

>

> Kirk

> EMT-B

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry bout that, I did mean Baystar, not Baytown. It's what I

get for not taking my own advice about proofreading before sending.

Crosby

EMT-B

RE: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

Hello .

Let's not reference this event to " Baytown Paramedics " please. Baytown

did

not respond to this event and are definitely not involved.

Jack Pitcock

EMS Division Manager

Baytown Health Department EMS

________________________________________________________________________________\

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This email and its attachments, if any, are intended for the personal use of the

named recipient(s) and may contain confidential, privileged, or proprietary

information. If you are not a named recipient, or an agent responsible for

delivering it to a named recipient, you have received this email in error. In

that event, please (a) immediately notify me by reply email, ( do not review,

copy, save, forward, or print this email or any of its attachments, and ©

immediately delete and/or destroy this email and its attachments and all

electronic and physical copies thereof. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

[Guest guest]

Sorry bout that, I did mean Baystar, not Baytown. It's what I

get for not taking my own advice about proofreading before sending.

Crosby

EMT-B

RE: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

Hello .

Let's not reference this event to " Baytown Paramedics " please. Baytown

did

not respond to this event and are definitely not involved.

Jack Pitcock

EMS Division Manager

Baytown Health Department EMS

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

This email and its attachments, if any, are intended for the personal use of the

named recipient(s) and may contain confidential, privileged, or proprietary

information. If you are not a named recipient, or an agent responsible for

delivering it to a named recipient, you have received this email in error. In

that event, please (a) immediately notify me by reply email, ( do not review,

copy, save, forward, or print this email or any of its attachments, and ©

immediately delete and/or destroy this email and its attachments and all

electronic and physical copies thereof. Thank you.

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____