(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Abbadum -

Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was "coming around" for about six years...

That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, don't know what it's all about.

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a while)>From: >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500>>At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> >> >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.>>[snip]>>I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members>seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not>religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A>pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the>Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at>all.>> H.>====================================================================Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or morphine or idealism.--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology_________________________________________________________________Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:

> Abbadum -

>

>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

" coming around " for about six years...

>

>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,

don't know what it's all about.

>

>

>

>Janice

>

> abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote:

>Most AAers would ask " What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

>

>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, in

the first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. By

my second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first

164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled and

annoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.

As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, and

didn't know the difference between " AA conference approved " and Hazelden

literature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists of

what's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the big

book.

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:

> Abbadum -

>

>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

" coming around " for about six years...

>

>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,

don't know what it's all about.

>

>

>

>Janice

>

> abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote:

>Most AAers would ask " What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

>

>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, in

the first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. By

my second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first

164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled and

annoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.

As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, and

didn't know the difference between " AA conference approved " and Hazelden

literature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists of

what's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the big

book.

----------

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice

Today I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some

meetings.

I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:

1. Respect other beliefs and opions

2. There is no one way to live the program

and

3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.

He came back and said " well what they meant be then is.... "

At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or

Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were

written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)

>

>

> Abbadum -

>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

>

>Janice

> abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote: Most AAers would ask " What has

>Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

>

>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a

>while)

>

>

> >From:

> >Reply-To: 12-step-free

> >To: 12-step-free

> >Subject: Re: (no subject)

> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500

> >

> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:

> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > >

> > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> >

> >[snip]

> >

> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> >all.

> >

> > H.

> >

>

>

>

>

>====================================================================

>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol

>or

>morphine or idealism.

>

>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

>

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

>http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice

Today I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some

meetings.

I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:

1. Respect other beliefs and opions

2. There is no one way to live the program

and

3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.

He came back and said " well what they meant be then is.... "

At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or

Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were

written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)

>

>

> Abbadum -

>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

>

>Janice

> abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote: Most AAers would ask " What has

>Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

>

>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a

>while)

>

>

> >From:

> >Reply-To: 12-step-free

> >To: 12-step-free

> >Subject: Re: (no subject)

> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500

> >

> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:

> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > >

> > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> >

> >[snip]

> >

> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> >all.

> >

> > H.

> >

>

>

>

>

>====================================================================

>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol

>or

>morphine or idealism.

>

>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

>

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

>http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Janice

Today I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some

meetings.

I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:

1. Respect other beliefs and opions

2. There is no one way to live the program

and

3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.

He came back and said " well what they meant be then is.... "

At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or

Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were

written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)

>

>

> Abbadum -

>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

>

>Janice

> abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote: Most AAers would ask " What has

>Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

>

>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a

>while)

>

>

> >From:

> >Reply-To: 12-step-free

> >To: 12-step-free

> >Subject: Re: (no subject)

> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500

> >

> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:

> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > >

> > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> >

> >[snip]

> >

> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> >all.

> >

> > H.

> >

>

>

>

>

>====================================================================

>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol

>or

>morphine or idealism.

>

>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

>

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

>http://www.hotmail.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill

You know that " As Bill Sees It " and the Steps are on disk now too.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:16:12 -0500

>

>At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:

> > Abbadum -

> >

> >Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

> >

> >That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of

>AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

> >

> >

> >

> >Janice

> >

> > abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote:

> >Most AAers would ask " What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

> >

> >Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

> THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, in

>the first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. By

>my second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first

>164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled and

>annoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.

>As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, and

>didn't know the difference between " AA conference approved " and Hazelden

>literature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists of

>what's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the big

>book.

>

>----------

>http://listen.to/benbradley

====================================================================

Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or

morphine or idealism.

--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill

You know that " As Bill Sees It " and the Steps are on disk now too.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:16:12 -0500

>

>At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:

> > Abbadum -

> >

> >Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

> >

> >That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of

>AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

> >

> >

> >

> >Janice

> >

> > abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote:

> >Most AAers would ask " What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

> >

> >Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

> THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, in

>the first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. By

>my second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first

>164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled and

>annoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.

>As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, and

>didn't know the difference between " AA conference approved " and Hazelden

>literature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists of

>what's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the big

>book.

>

>----------

>http://listen.to/benbradley

====================================================================

Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or

morphine or idealism.

--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill

You know that " As Bill Sees It " and the Steps are on disk now too.

abbadun

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-free

>To: 12-step-free

>Subject: Re: (no subject)

>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:16:12 -0500

>

>At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:

> > Abbadum -

> >

> >Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was

> " coming around " for about six years...

> >

> >That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of

>AA,

>don't know what it's all about.

> >

> >

> >

> >Janice

> >

> > abbadun _ abbadun@...> wrote:

> >Most AAers would ask " What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this " ?

> >

> >Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.

>

> THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, in

>the first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. By

>my second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first

>164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled and

>annoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.

>As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, and

>didn't know the difference between " AA conference approved " and Hazelden

>literature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists of

>what's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the big

>book.

>

>----------

>http://listen.to/benbradley

====================================================================

Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol or

morphine or idealism.

--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology

_________________________________________________________________

Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

[Guest guest]

Ben Bradley -

Until recently, I had very little desire to delve into the history of AA. As to the Big Book, I couldn't find a single chapter/story I could read and feel that there was some hope for me without a "higher power". I didn't drink, went to meetings every day, did service as suggested, and for me that was enough for a few years. Anyway, I did (and still do) try to keep an open mind as suggested, because it is true that something COULD happen at any time which would somehow change my way of thinking. That is what's so insidious about AA - Doesn't matter what a person thinks when he goes through the doors - Keep going long enough and hearing the same things over and over - One day he will "awaken" to understand what he hears - The AA way, of course. What I have just said speaks volumes about me - Maybe I'm really not so open-minded as I profess. All I do know is that I don't want to drink.

Thanks (?) for your input -

Janice

wrote: At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:> Abbadum - >>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was"coming around" for about six years... >>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,don't know what it's all about. >> >>Janice >> abbadun _ wrote: >Most AAers would ask "What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them. THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, inthe first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. Bymy second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled andannoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, anddidn't know the difference between "AA conference approved" and Hazeldenliterature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists ofwhat's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the bigbook.----------http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Ben Bradley -

Until recently, I had very little desire to delve into the history of AA. As to the Big Book, I couldn't find a single chapter/story I could read and feel that there was some hope for me without a "higher power". I didn't drink, went to meetings every day, did service as suggested, and for me that was enough for a few years. Anyway, I did (and still do) try to keep an open mind as suggested, because it is true that something COULD happen at any time which would somehow change my way of thinking. That is what's so insidious about AA - Doesn't matter what a person thinks when he goes through the doors - Keep going long enough and hearing the same things over and over - One day he will "awaken" to understand what he hears - The AA way, of course. What I have just said speaks volumes about me - Maybe I'm really not so open-minded as I profess. All I do know is that I don't want to drink.

Thanks (?) for your input -

Janice

wrote: At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:> Abbadum - >>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was"coming around" for about six years... >>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,don't know what it's all about. >> >>Janice >> abbadun _ wrote: >Most AAers would ask "What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them. THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, inthe first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. Bymy second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled andannoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, anddidn't know the difference between "AA conference approved" and Hazeldenliterature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists ofwhat's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the bigbook.----------http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Ben Bradley -

Until recently, I had very little desire to delve into the history of AA. As to the Big Book, I couldn't find a single chapter/story I could read and feel that there was some hope for me without a "higher power". I didn't drink, went to meetings every day, did service as suggested, and for me that was enough for a few years. Anyway, I did (and still do) try to keep an open mind as suggested, because it is true that something COULD happen at any time which would somehow change my way of thinking. That is what's so insidious about AA - Doesn't matter what a person thinks when he goes through the doors - Keep going long enough and hearing the same things over and over - One day he will "awaken" to understand what he hears - The AA way, of course. What I have just said speaks volumes about me - Maybe I'm really not so open-minded as I profess. All I do know is that I don't want to drink.

Thanks (?) for your input -

Janice

wrote: At 06:36 AM 12/15/01 -0800, Janice La wrote:> Abbadum - >>Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was"coming around" for about six years... >>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA,don't know what it's all about. >> >>Janice >> abbadun _ wrote: >Most AAers would ask "What has Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them. THe Oxford Group is discussed in the first chapter of the big book, inthe first 164 pages that most sponsors tell their sponsorees to read. Bymy second year I not just read it several times, I had typed the first164 pages into my computer. I was becoming increasingly appaled andannoyed at the ignorance of other AA'ers about what the big book says.As far as other literature, most people barely even knew the titles, anddidn't know the difference between "AA conference approved" and Hazeldenliterature. It became clear that 'the program' actually consists ofwhat's discussed in meetings, not neccesarily what's written in the bigbook.----------http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

"1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking."\

1.

3.The only real requirement for membership is the total loss of self - Once that is accomplished, everything else falls into place "one step at a time".

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

"1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking."\

1.

3.The only real requirement for membership is the total loss of self - Once that is accomplished, everything else falls into place "one step at a time".

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

"1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking."\

1.

3.The only real requirement for membership is the total loss of self - Once that is accomplished, everything else falls into place "one step at a time".

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

The only requirement for membership is a total "surrendering" of self -control, not to mention identity (but I will) - Not today, thank you.

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

The only requirement for membership is a total "surrendering" of self -control, not to mention identity (but I will) - Not today, thank you.

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Abbadun -

The only requirement for membership is a total "surrendering" of self -control, not to mention identity (but I will) - Not today, thank you.

Janice

abbadun _ wrote: Hi JaniceToday I was talking to long time AAer about AA and the decline of some meetings.I mention that the program should follow the writtings in the books, like:1. Respect other beliefs and opions2. There is no one way to live the programand3. The only requirement to be a member of AA is the desire to stop drinking.He came back and said "well what they meant be then is...."At this point I am thinking, was this program translated from Russian or Chinese or something? Those work words meant the samething when they were written, as now and will for hundreds of years from now.abbadun>From: Janice La >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject)>Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 06:36:40 -0800 (PST)>>> Abbadum ->Up until about a year ago, I would have asked the same thing, and I was >"coming around" for about six years...>That is really what is so scarey about AA - Most people, in and out of AA, >don't know what it's all about.>>Janice> abbadun _ wrote: Most AAers would ask "What has >Oxford Health Insurance to do with this"?>>Many AAers do not know their history, just what their Sponsors tell them.>>abbadun (I've been away, work and school was all I could handle for a >while)>>> >From: > >Reply-To: 12-step-free > >To: 12-step-free > >Subject: Re: (no subject)> >Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:39:13 -0500> >> >At 11:24 AM 12/11/01 -0500, you wrote:> > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy> > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.> > >> > >"AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.> > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,> > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is "proof" of> > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.> >> >[snip]> >> >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members> >seem to have convinced themselves that it's "spiritual, not> >religious" and that it's universal rather than Christian. A> >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the> >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at> >all.> >> > H.> >>>>>>====================================================================>Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol >or>morphine or idealism.>>--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology>>>_________________________________________________________________>Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.>http://www.hotmail.com>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not there was this guy who used to come to meetings

with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in

order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time.

Pat

> > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > >

> > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > >

> > >[snip]

> > >

> > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > >all.

> > >

> > > H.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>====================================================================

> >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be

alcohol

> >or

> >morphine or idealism.

> >

> >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded

psychology

> >

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> >http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not there was this guy who used to come to meetings

with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in

order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time.

Pat

> > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > >

> > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > >

> > >[snip]

> > >

> > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > >all.

> > >

> > > H.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>====================================================================

> >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be

alcohol

> >or

> >morphine or idealism.

> >

> >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded

psychology

> >

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> >http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Believe it or not there was this guy who used to come to meetings

with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in

order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time.

Pat

> > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy

> > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > >

> > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve,

> > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > >

> > >[snip]

> > >

> > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members

> > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the

> > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > >all.

> > >

> > > H.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>====================================================================

> >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be

alcohol

> >or

> >morphine or idealism.

> >

> >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded

psychology

> >

> >

> >_________________________________________________________________

> >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> >http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a

" universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children "

> > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a

copy

> > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > > >

> > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and

Eve,

> > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > > >

> > > >[snip]

> > > >

> > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA

members

> > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about

the

> > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > > >all.

> > > >

> > > > H.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >===============================================

=====================

> > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the

narcotic be

> alcohol

> > >or

> > >morphine or idealism.

> > >

> > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist,

founded

> psychology

> > >

> > >

> > >

__________________________________________________

_______________

> > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> > >http://www.hotmail.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a

" universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children "

> > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a

copy

> > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > > >

> > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and

Eve,

> > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > > >

> > > >[snip]

> > > >

> > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA

members

> > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about

the

> > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > > >all.

> > > >

> > > > H.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >===============================================

=====================

> > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the

narcotic be

> alcohol

> > >or

> > >morphine or idealism.

> > >

> > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist,

founded

> psychology

> > >

> > >

> > >

__________________________________________________

_______________

> > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> > >http://www.hotmail.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a

" universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children "

> > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a

copy

> > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet.

> > > > >

> > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups.

> > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and

Eve,

> > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of

> > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > > >

> > > >[snip]

> > > >

> > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA

members

> > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not

> > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A

> > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about

the

> > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at

> > > >all.

> > > >

> > > > H.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >===============================================

=====================

> > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the

narcotic be

> alcohol

> > >or

> > >morphine or idealism.

> > >

> > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist,

founded

> psychology

> > >

> > >

> > >

__________________________________________________

_______________

> > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

> > >http://www.hotmail.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Oh nothing surprises me anymore but I have learned to drink heavily to

block out all the nasty feelings I have about the cult freaks.

kisses

Tom Boy

At 06:01 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote:

Believe it or not there was this

guy who used to come to meetings

with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in

order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time.

Pat

> > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a

copy

> > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11

sheet.

> > > >

> > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford

groups.

> > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and

Eve,

> > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is

" proof " of

> > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman.

> > >

> > >[snip]

> > >

> > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA

members

> > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's

" spiritual, not

> > >religious " and that it's universal rather than

Christian. A

> > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about

the

> > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact

at

> > >all.

> > >

> > > H.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>====================================================================

> >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic

be

alcohol

> >or

> >morphine or idealism.

> >

> >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded

psychology

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

> >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.

>

>http://www.hotmail.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >