Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Oh nothing surprises me anymore but I have learned to drink heavily to block out all the nasty feelings I have about the cult freaks. kisses Tom Boy At 06:01 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote: Believe it or not there was this guy who used to come to meetings with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time. Pat > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > >all. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol > >or > >morphine or idealism. > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Scientology perhaps? kisses Boy At 06:16 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote: i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a " universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children " > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=============================================== ===================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be > alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded > psychology > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2001 Report Share Posted December 15, 2001 Scientology perhaps? kisses Boy At 06:16 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote: i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a " universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children " > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=============================================== ===================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be > alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded > psychology > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ _______________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 thats a good anwser, partial credit to you. its a qoute from BB of wilson describing a higher power to which we are to turn are wills over to. i suspect in a 1930's dictionary the most appropriate entry to describe such a thing is " god " . -- In 12-step-free@y..., Tomboy wrote: > Scientology perhaps? > > kisses > Boy > > > At 06:16 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote: > >i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a > > " universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children " > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a > >copy > > > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and > >Eve, > > > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA > >members > > > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about > >the > > > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > > > >all. > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >============================================= == > >===================== > > > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the > >narcotic be > > > alcohol > > > > >or > > > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, > >founded > > > psychology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > >_______________ > > > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 thats a good anwser, partial credit to you. its a qoute from BB of wilson describing a higher power to which we are to turn are wills over to. i suspect in a 1930's dictionary the most appropriate entry to describe such a thing is " god " . -- In 12-step-free@y..., Tomboy wrote: > Scientology perhaps? > > kisses > Boy > > > At 06:16 AM 16/12/01 +0000, you wrote: > >i wonder what word in that dictionary would have best decribed a > > " universal creative intelligence of whom we are all it's children " > > > > > > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a > >copy > > > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and > >Eve, > > > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA > >members > > > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about > >the > > > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > > > >all. > > > > > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >============================================= == > >===================== > > > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the > >narcotic be > > > alcohol > > > > >or > > > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, > >founded > > > psychology > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > >_______________ > > > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Pat LMAO!! Did he drive to meetings in a car with a rumble seat? Har har har har! Tom > Believe it or not there was this guy who used to come to meetings > with a dictionary from the 30's. He claimed it was necessary in > order to interpret correctly the AA writings of that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Abbadun I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own twisted little mind, powerful in the process. It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other patsy. Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! Take care, Abbadun. Regards, Tom > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > >all. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol > >or > >morphine or idealism. > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Abbadun I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own twisted little mind, powerful in the process. It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other patsy. Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! Take care, Abbadun. Regards, Tom > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > >all. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol > >or > >morphine or idealism. > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Abbadun I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own twisted little mind, powerful in the process. It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other patsy. Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! Take care, Abbadun. Regards, Tom > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > >all. > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol > >or > >morphine or idealism. > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded psychology > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Tom I do not know, maybe it is the " bad boy " in me. While I am still using AA I enjoy getting people to explain what they know is wrong. For the members I think of as goners, I do not even bother. abbadun > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject) >Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:02:57 -0000 > >Hi Abbadun > >I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in >debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. > >Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill > had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of >others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe >differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil >program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own >twisted little mind, powerful in the process. > >It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those >who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the >only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, >and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by >his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the >constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good >for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. > >Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the >message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us >if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in >all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if >some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, >fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other >patsy. > >Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up >anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! > >Take care, Abbadun. > >Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be >alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded >psychology > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Tom I do not know, maybe it is the " bad boy " in me. While I am still using AA I enjoy getting people to explain what they know is wrong. For the members I think of as goners, I do not even bother. abbadun > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject) >Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:02:57 -0000 > >Hi Abbadun > >I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in >debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. > >Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill > had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of >others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe >differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil >program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own >twisted little mind, powerful in the process. > >It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those >who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the >only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, >and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by >his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the >constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good >for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. > >Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the >message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us >if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in >all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if >some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, >fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other >patsy. > >Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up >anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! > >Take care, Abbadun. > >Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be >alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded >psychology > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 Hi Tom I do not know, maybe it is the " bad boy " in me. While I am still using AA I enjoy getting people to explain what they know is wrong. For the members I think of as goners, I do not even bother. abbadun > >Reply-To: 12-step-free >To: 12-step-free >Subject: Re: (no subject) >Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:02:57 -0000 > >Hi Abbadun > >I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in >debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. > >Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill > had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of >others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe >differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil >program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own >twisted little mind, powerful in the process. > >It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those >who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the >only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, >and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by >his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the >constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good >for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. > >Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the >message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us >if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in >all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if >some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, >fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other >patsy. > >Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up >anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! > >Take care, Abbadun. > >Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be >alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded >psychology > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 " Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! " No, no. Do NOT apologize. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. After reading your post, I feel better now too. Re: (no subject) > Hi Abbadun > > I have never understood why you persist in engaging 12 steppers in > debate. If this makes or keeps you well, then I'm happy for you. > > Myself, I find such activity less than useless. It is clear that Bill > had ZERO respect for the opinions or religious beliefs of > others, and paid lip service to the " rights " of others to believe > differently only because he was, at heart, a con man with a snake oil > program to sell. And sell he did, becoming wealthy and, in his own > twisted little mind, powerful in the process. > > It should be clear by now that his cultist followers, at least those > who " get " the Program, believe as Bill did: that their way is the > only way, that they are going to give it to us by hook or by crook, > and if we don't " get it " , then we are going to be screwed over by > his " Loving God " in a way that only the Almighty can screw over the > constitutionally incapable wretches who refuse to accept what's good > for them when it is shoved down their powerless undeserving throats. > > Oh, and as far as that lip service bullshit about carrying the > message to others goes, they really don't give a rat's ass about us > if we are not prepared to bend over and accept their superiority in > all things moral. Like the chapter on " Working with Others " says, if > some pathetic alcoholic slob just can't or won't take the bait, > fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, just move on and find some other > patsy. > > Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent-up > anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! > > Take care, Abbadun. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > >Wanna drive AA's nuts?: Print this up and take it to a copy > > > > >shop. You can fit this four times on one 8-1/2x 11 sheet. > > > > > > > > > > " AA is based on the bible from the oxford groups. > > > > >There is no more evidence, no more proof of Adam and Eve, > > > > >garden of Eden or original sin than there is " proof " of > > > > >Superman, Batman or Spiderman. > > > > > > > >[snip] > > > > > > > >I don't think this would work. Most committed AA members > > > >seem to have convinced themselves that it's " spiritual, not > > > >religious " and that it's universal rather than Christian. A > > > >pamphlet like this would probably have to explain about the > > > >Oxford Group and so forth in order to have any impact at > > > >all. > > > > > > > > H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >==================================================================== > > >Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be > alcohol > > >or > > >morphine or idealism. > > > > > >--- Carl Gustav Jung (1875-1961), Swiss psychiatrist, founded > psychology > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > > >http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 I remember reading - hearing? - somewhere that Bill W. did his writing with a dictionary close to hand, one reason being that he didn't want the same word to appear tweice on any page (discounting 'the', 'and', 'but', and so on, etc, presumably ) I have no idea whether or not this is true (and could not face the thought of actually trying to find out......and why on earth does saying that make the guilty feeling start nipping at my heels?) but wondered if anyone else knew.... Also once heard the 12x12 described as " Bill W.'s ego trip " ..........at that time I was rather as I have heard Tomboy describe - an ardent program person - and I was seething with anger and indignation, and said so......how dare this person say that, etc etc etc...............shit....... *************** Message: 20 Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:13:14 -0000 Subject: Re: (no subject) A 30s dictionary would explain words in terms of other 30s words, which in themselves will have changed meetings, so he would also have to look up those words to see what they meant then.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > I remember reading - hearing? - somewhere that Bill W. did his writing > with a dictionary close to hand, one reason being that he didn't want > the same word to appear tweice on any page (discounting 'the', 'and', > 'but', and so on, etc, presumably ) > > I have no idea whether or not this is true (and could not face the > thought of actually trying to find out......and why on earth does saying > that make the guilty feeling start nipping at my heels?) but wondered if > anyone else knew.... I have heard something about this, too. The example I was shown was in the steps. Step 5 - " wrongs, " step 6 - " defects of carachter, " step 7- " shortcomings. " They all mean the same thing, Bill used the different words to avoid sounding repetitive, repititious, redundant, and monotonous. God, god, god, god ,god knows it didn't work. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Hello, my name is Drew. I have never been a member of a 12 step group, but my mother was. I am 33 years old. When my mother was in the group, she was constantly trying to indoctrinate me in.(recruit me without my awareness that I was being recruited) I guess this sounds pretty strange, but one time she was talking to me, and out of the blue, she snaps " You can't relate to others! " After that, it was as if I just heard her voice ringing in my head, saying " You can't relate to others! " More to the point, I had more dificulty relating to other, than ever before. I would feel angry, out of control. I would get so angry, that I would scare people away from me. I never had this problem before this confrontation at 27 years of age. I was wondering if this sounded like anyone elses experience here? Thank you, Drew. dmarcoot wrote: > what set off bells for me was i met a guy who introduced himself > as " hi, im an alcoholic and my name is john " because being an > alcoholic was more pertinent to his identity than his name. > i thougth that was a pretty twisted self image to hold, whcih amde me start questioning more and more. > > > > > > he also used a technique of persuasion where instead > of > > saying > > > > " I " , he used " we " , which made it sound more > approachable > > and > > > > less self centered. But this is also a deception on his > part. > > > > > > This is an incredibly effective brainwashing technique > when > > used in > > > meetings. When read out, it gives the impression that > > everybody in > > > the entire room, and everybody in every AA meeting, thinks > > exactly > > > the same way, and the poor sap newcomer doesnt realize > that > > probably > > > well over half the ppl in the room are recent arrivals as > > skeptical > > > as he is, and a fair number dont even want to be there at > all! In > > OA > > > they pass the damn book around so that everybody reads > a bit > > and > > > hence gets drawn into saying things for themself. > Frequently I > > > refuse to read things and just pass the book on. > > > > > > P. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 he also used a technique of persuasion where instead of saying " I " , he used " we " , which made it sound more approachable and less self centered. But this is also a deception on his part. > > I remember reading - hearing? - somewhere that Bill W. did > his writing > > with a dictionary close to hand, one reason being that he didn't > want > > the same word to appear tweice on any page (discounting 'the', > 'and', > > 'but', and so on, etc, presumably ) > > > > I have no idea whether or not this is true (and could not face > the > > thought of actually trying to find out......and why on earth does > saying > > that make the guilty feeling start nipping at my heels?) but > wondered if > > anyone else knew.... > > I have heard something about this, too. The example I was > shown was in the steps. Step 5 - " wrongs, " step 6 - " defects of > carachter, " step 7- " shortcomings. " They all mean the same > thing, Bill used the different words to avoid sounding repetitive, > repititious, redundant, and monotonous. God, god, god, god ,god > knows it didn't work. > > Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > I have heard something about this, too. The example I was > shown was in the steps. Step 5 - " wrongs, " step 6 - " defects of > carachter, " step 7- " shortcomings. " They all mean the same > thing, Bill used the different words to avoid sounding repetitive, > repititious, redundant, and monotonous. God, god, god, god ,god > knows it didn't work. > > Devin Bill reminds me of that L. Ron Hubbard - the fellow who started the Scientology cult and wrote the " Dianetics " book. It is pitiful that people still want to follow these snake-oil salesmen. If Bill W. had lived in this era, he would have been a good candidate for TV evangelism along with this ego, treatment of his wife, and the various mistresses he is supposed to have had. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > " Egad. Sorry about all the profanity. Methinks I had a bit of pent- up > anger to unleash there. But I do feel better now! " > > No, no. Do NOT apologize. I haven't laughed that hard in a while. After > reading your post, I feel better now too. > At one meeting I used to attend (Rebos - Casselberry, Florida), there was a sign on the wall that said, " Profanity is not spiritual. " Oh, brother. I also had to laugh when a chairperson would say how " bad words " were not to be used if certain members brought their small children. Bringing a little kid to a meeting is not the most prudent thing for a parent to do. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Bringing small children to a meeting? Ugh. Not only exposing them to the cult influence, but listening to peoples drunkalogs, too - can't be good for them. -----Original Message----- From: camouflage32790 I also had to laugh when a chairperson would say how " bad words " were not to be used if certain members brought their small children. Bringing a little kid to a meeting is not the most prudent thing for a parent to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 Many AA's dont like the 12&12 - partly because its so damn depressing and extreme I suspect, and also some because they feel wrote it to make himself more money. There's even an AA oddball of nearly 40 yrs standing who tries to claim that it isnt an AA book, and goes to desperate and ridiculous lengths to try to prove it. This guy is a kind of self-appointed political correctness policemen of views on AA on the net. Talk about a sad case. He showed up on Tommy's list recently trying to police there too. P. > Also once heard the 12x12 described as " Bill W.'s ego trip " ..........at > that time I was rather as I have heard Tomboy describe - an ardent > program person - and I was seething with anger and indignation, and > said so......how dare this person say that, etc etc > etc...............shit....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > I have heard something about this, too. The example I was > shown was in the steps. Step 5 - " wrongs, " step 6 - " defects of > carachter, " step 7- " shortcomings. " They all mean the same > thing, Bill used the different words to avoid sounding repetitive, > repititious, redundant, and monotonous. God, god, god, god ,god > knows it didn't work. Shows what a crap writer he was - a good writer does this spontaneously, and is not afraid to re-use pivotal words when necessary. Note how careful he was not to use the word he was really talking about, SIN. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > he also used a technique of persuasion where instead of saying > " I " , he used " we " , which made it sound more approachable and > less self centered. But this is also a deception on his part. This is an incredibly effective brainwashing technique when used in meetings. When read out, it gives the impression that everybody in the entire room, and everybody in every AA meeting, thinks exactly the same way, and the poor sap newcomer doesnt realize that probably well over half the ppl in the room are recent arrivals as skeptical as he is, and a fair number dont even want to be there at all! In OA they pass the damn book around so that everybody reads a bit and hence gets drawn into saying things for themself. Frequently I refuse to read things and just pass the book on. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 I have always been horrified when parents have brought their little kids to meetings. No matter how indoctrinated I was into Satans clutch, I always realised that exposing young children to AA set them up for a life of " addiction " and " alcoholism " . Children learn what they see. It has always been a real sore spot with me. kisses Buoy At 10:47 AM 17/12/01 +0000, you wrote: Bringing a little kid to a meeting is not the most prudent thing for a parent to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2001 Report Share Posted December 17, 2001 > I have always been horrified when parents have brought their little kids to > meetings. No matter how indoctrinated I was into Satans clutch, I always > realised that exposing young children to AA set them up for a life of > " addiction " and " alcoholism " . Children learn what they see. > It has always been a real sore spot with me. And of course, more and more kids are being coerced into going to AA or NA on progressively more and more ludicrous pretexts, such as drinking or smoking pot on a handful of occasions. Apparently just being President of a college Greek fraternity was enough at one place. Good grief. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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