Fasting

[Guest guest]

>whoopsie - missed a decimal. Anyway, I buy a quart of kefir

>(organic) every day.

>*S*

>

>

Hi Sue,

I would wait until autumn to have kefir grains shipped to the desert,

unless they will be refrigerated. If you're in the mountains of AZ,

you'd probably be okay if you were present to take the package. But

perhaps you can find a local source. I am just glad to hear that you

really aren't spending $300 on kefir every other day!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

Smoking during a fast? No, of course not.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Smoking during a fast? No, of course not.

>

Hee hee. So, will you do some water fasting then, as you feel inclined?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

>

>

> >Smoking during a fast? No, of course not.

> >

> Hee hee. So, will you do some water fasting then, as you feel inclined?

Well, I haven't had anything but water today...

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

Can I take the IF#1 now by itself, or do I have to wait until the IF#2

comes in to take them together?

I water fasted yesterday, but I was on the computer almost from waking

to sleeping, with breaks, and I was up to 1 am, then I began to feel

funny, and I was almost afraid I was going to pass out when brushing

my teeth before bed, and I got paranoid and had about 2-3 oz of orange

juice. I started getting super-paranoid that I was going to die in my

sleep or something, and then it leveled off, but I still had insomnia

from my brain being so wired from reading and writing all day

straight. It occurred to me that maybe I was starting to " detox " my

buried anxiety problems...

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

>Well, I haven't had anything but water today...

>

Yeah, you said you were thinking of doing water. How's it going? How

long are you fasting for anyway?

We were in hunter safety class all day. Older DS commented, when a

family came in late from lunch break with food in stow: " Look at the

crap they're eating! " LOL, it was innocent on his part, but so funny.

WAPF youth, I guess.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

On 8/6/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

> Yeah, you said you were thinking of doing water. How's it going? How

> long are you fasting for anyway?

Fine. I drank dinner with my mother and grandparents today. They had

swordfish, squash, green beans, and salad; I had a nice, tall, cool

glass of water.

Apparently *water* gives me gas, so this might take a while. I've

been figuring that since I know I have gas *inside*, based on rumbling

noises and the fact that I can induce lots of gas movement by pushing

on my belly, but that I don't seem to be *letting it out* the other

end, that that indicates some serious kind of problem.

Today, I woke up with more rumbling than usual, even though I've been

doing straight water since two days ago and haven't had solid food in

a week. So there must be a bunch of crap stuck in there. I managed

to fart a bit too, later in the day, which may have been progress from

the fast, or may have been from the Dr. Shulze intestinal formula. I

just think it's funny that I'm able to fart on water!

So, I'm just going to have to test things out as to how long I fast.

I think it would be pointless to commence healing, and then stop

before I get very far.

Going without the food isn't particularly difficult. I don't find

water fasting any more difficult than coconut water fasting, although

I have some insecurities about its safety which aren't based in...

well, anything.

> We were in hunter safety class all day. Older DS commented, when a

> family came in late from lunch break with food in stow: " Look at the

> crap they're eating! " LOL, it was innocent on his part, but so funny.

> WAPF youth, I guess.

Ha... funny. It seems like eating anything would be " crap " for me right now.

Well, now that I've finished taking a break from urinating to write

this message, I suppose I'll go back to it now...

.... someone wake me up when I'm done.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

P.S. I just had my first bowel movement of the fast! Cool! It came

out real easy, but it was real compact. It sort of *shot out*. Like

a missile. LOL!

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Apparently *water* gives me gas, so this might take a while. I've

>been figuring that since I know I have gas *inside*, based on rumbling

>noises and the fact that I can induce lots of gas movement by pushing

>on my belly, but that I don't seem to be *letting it out* the other

>end, that that indicates some serious kind of problem.

Chris:

Your body does secrete stuff into your gut, even when

you aren't eating (as I'm sure you know from your classes!)

so maybe that gives the bacteria enough to produce gas. I don't know

what all is in bile, but I do believe it contains cholesterol and some

fats at least. And the gas might have some other outlet (absorption,

or " silent escape " because I used to get a lot of rumbling and no

outlet that I could tell, but it didn't seem to turn into anything serious.

It's interesting you would get more gas on a FAST than otherwise

though.

Heidi

[Guest guest]

>

> >Apparently *water* gives me gas, so this might take a while. I've

> >been figuring that since I know I have gas *inside*, based on

rumbling

> >noises and the fact that I can induce lots of gas movement by pushing

> >on my belly, but that I don't seem to be *letting it out* the other

> >end, that that indicates some serious kind of problem.

>

Could it be a " die-off " problem? I know yeast puts up a fight before

it finally kicks the bucket, maybe bacteria does as well?

Jo

[Guest guest]

Chris

>P.S. I just had my first bowel movement of the fast! Cool! It came

>out real easy, but it was real compact. It sort of *shot out*. Like

>a missile. LOL!

>

Hey that's great! How's the rumbling after the BM? I dreamed about you

last night. You were drowning in water ... or at least under water.

You weren't dead anyway. You will eat or go back to juice when you feel

the true hunger again, right?

Thanks for the update. I'm off for a run. My butt is numb from sitting

on a metal folding chair all day yesterday. We get to shoot BB guns

today, whoo hoo! Last gun I shot was an M16 in the military, way back

when. I am left eye dominant, but I have to shoot a compound bow with

my right eye or I'd have some dangerously funky form. So I don't know

which eye to leave open, lol. Any suggestions (besides closing both)?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

A quick reply to each:

Heidi,

I never learnt that in a class, but I did learn it from you a while

back, and I thought of that. However, it nevertheless seems like

there is stubborn gas. No doubt though, that the microorganisms in my

gut would not simply *die* overnight, good or bad. Additionally, the

ones that do die are probably eaten by the others or something.

Jo,

I think you're right that anything putting up a fight would produce

gas, and anything dead probably would too, since it would provide

something to digest.

Deanna,

Interesting dream. Once when I was a kid, I went underwater in an

above ground pool, and then got stuck at the bottom and couldn't push

myself up because of the pressure. My older cousin went down and

pulled me up.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> >[chris] Apparently *water* gives me gas, so this might take a while. I've

> >been figuring that since I know I have gas *inside*, based on rumbling

> >noises and the fact that I can induce lots of gas movement by pushing

> >on my belly, but that I don't seem to be *letting it out* the other

> >end, that that indicates some serious kind of problem.

Hi When I drink water on an empty stomach I sometimes get a

belch, not like I've swallowed a bunch of air but the same as if I

drank (in the old days) baking soda and water.. I can't figure it out.

When things are going really well digestive-wise for me, I don't get

this belch thing. But when things aren't so good, this water belch is

one of the first signs I get.

I wondered: since taking something alkaline on an acid stomach makes

gas, then wouldn't taking something acid on an alkaline stomach do the

same thing? Does anyone know about this?

Also, if I were you I'd take a break from the Primal Defense. See if that helps.

~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

>I wondered: since taking something alkaline on an acid stomach makes

>gas, then wouldn't taking something acid on an alkaline stomach do the

>same thing? Does anyone know about this?

>

>Also, if I were you I'd take a break from the Primal Defense. See if that

helps.

>

>~Robin Ann

I kind of doubt anyone EVER gets an " alkaline " stomach ... sometimes it

is less acid than other times, but it's always on the acid side.

Some things will make you belch though because they break the

surface tension and force the air out of the foam that forms

in the stomach. I'd guess plain water would do this too, just by

making everything more liquidy? Gas-X is a substance that de-foams

the stomach, tho it does not create CO2 on it's own it will make you

belch. I think cayenne pepper does it too ... when you sprinkle cayenne

on soap bubbles, they go away, or at least they did last time I tried it.

Wine might work that way too. Anyway, THAT gas reaction is different

from the acid/base one you get from baking soda.

Primal Defense is kind of controversial on the GI groups,

because it contains wheat grass and barley grass, and some

folks do seem to have a " gluten " response to it. Barley grass

is one of those things that sets me off (and my kids) though

for the life of me I can't see how it would have much gluten

in it. Gluten reactions typically produce a LOT of gas and

rumblings. (And of course those of you who don't react to gluten

can ignore the previous message).

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

On 8/8/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> Hi When I drink water on an empty stomach I sometimes get a

> belch, not like I've swallowed a bunch of air but the same as if I

> drank (in the old days) baking soda and water.. I can't figure it out.

> When things are going really well digestive-wise for me, I don't get

> this belch thing. But when things aren't so good, this water belch is

> one of the first signs I get.

Hi Robin,

Interesting. I was just referring the fact that I had rumbling and

some farting despite the fact that I wasn't eating anything.

> I wondered: since taking something alkaline on an acid stomach makes

> gas, then wouldn't taking something acid on an alkaline stomach do the

> same thing? Does anyone know about this?

I think it's quite impossible for a stomach to be alkaline, but in any

case, the gas does not come from mixing acid and alkaline. It comes

from mixing bicarbonate ion with H+ ion, which reacts to form water

and carbon dioxide, the latter of which is the " gas. "

> Also, if I were you I'd take a break from the Primal Defense. See if that

> helps.

Right, I don't know why I didn't connect that before, but PD tends to

cause some " rumbling. " I don't know if anything needs to be " helped, "

because it seems to me that it's just a healthy sign of things

starting to move around down there, rather than stay stagnant.

I kind of doubt that PD contains much if any gluten at all, because

the wheat grass and barley grass are both *grasses* which aren't

supposed to contain gluten, and then are juiced and *fermented*, and

then have *proteolytic enzymes* added! PD always tends to cause a

little rumbling if I get the powdered kind, and it also usually helps

improve all my digestive symptoms, which indicates to me that the

rumbling is a good thing. PD's the soldiers fighting a battle down

there to defend the home land, I think.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> (And of course those of you who don't react to gluten

>can ignore the previous message).

>

>

>Heidi Jean

>

>

>

LOL!! I think you should make that part of your sig line! :-D

Steph

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Robin Ann <grainwreck@...> wrote:

> > [michael] Hmmm..not sure I would do an enema (high) every day, at

> > least not given the herbal formulas I recommended to but

> > I do think once a week is a very good idea, but that is just my

> > experience.

>

> [robin] yes, once a day does sound extreme. ly, when I did

> longish fasts (it was for spiritual/focus reasons) I didn't even

> know about enemas and was fine (i guess) without them. But they

> helped me so much when I was absolutely despartae with a bacterial

> infection that I became comfortable with the practice and would use

> them again if I were to fast. Some fasting retreats say to do a

> light enema each day but I would think it should be on a case by

> case basis. You get to *know* when it would be appropraite. And yes,

> the 4 qt. idea is too much once a day! I always " implant " with good

> probiotics afterward too...

On my first few fasts (longish) I didn't worry or know much about

elimination at all and I did just fine. I was operating under the

hygenic principle that the body will eliminate when it is ready to

eliminate.

But a high enema can be quite helpful as can the implants especially

if you have pain or a problem like you had. In fact enemas (high) are

amazing whenever you have pain in your body whether or not you are

fasting. Brings very quick relief.

> Well, even every couple days it might help a bit. I think he's

> probably got soem gas up there that's been hanging around awhile. No

> escape route. That's why at least one colon hydrotherapy session

> might be very helpful. I doubt with the fasting that he's producing

> much gas -- I'd imagine this is leftoover but obviously don't know.

Yes I agree. It is his body doing some much needed cleaning and repairing.

> Anyay, I'd like to suggest that a too-curved colon might be at the

> root of many of our digestive problems here. We always assume that

> proper nutrition will cure what ails us but maybe sometimes what's

> also needed are supplementary measures such as colon cleansing

> because our colons just aren't constructed very well to begin with.

>

> I credit an awful lot of my recovery (which is toltally happening by

> the way!!) to the proper use of colon hydrotherapy and getting my

> guts into the best possible shape. Not to mention the 3+ inches I

> lost from my waist when every other measurement is back to the same..

I very much believe there is more to optimal health and the recovery

of such health than just nutrition.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> I took the ginger/lemon juice straight and chased it with water.

> There is much more lemon juice than ginger, but the ginger juice is

> definitely overpowering the taste.

>

> Why?

While ginger is great for the digestive system and even for expelling

gas (i.e. a carminative) and has many other wonderful properties, it

is still a VERY potent medicinal when concentrated, much like cayenne

and garlic, even though we tend to think of these things as just

foods. So if you concentrate it in juice form make sure you dilute it

with water first. Same goes for the lemon, dilute it before you drink

it. Generally speaking you should mix 36 ounces of water for every six

ounces of lemon juice. A little goes a long way, especially on a fast.

[Guest guest]

On 8/5/05, Masterjohn <chrismasterjohn@...> wrote:

> On 8/5/05, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> > > I took the ginger/lemon juice straight and chased it with water.

> > > There is much more lemon juice than ginger, but the ginger juice is

> > > definitely overpowering the taste.

>

> > Why do you do these crazy things?

> > I vote we fly you out to Seattle to fast under supervision...

>

> What do you mean? suggested adding some ginger juice to the

> coconut water, but I figured, why ruin the taste of a whole pint

> glass? That's like adding CLO to orange juice. If you really can't

> stand the taste, take it straight and chase it with OJ instead of

> ruining the whole glass of OJ.

I thought you had already decided to take the ginger? My suggestion

was to make sure that you diluted it down somewhat before drinking it.

[Guest guest]

>

>Fine. I drank dinner with my mother and grandparents today. They had

>swordfish, squash, green beans, and salad; I had a nice, tall, cool

>glass of water.

>

>

What discipline!

>So, I'm just going to have to test things out as to how long I fast.

>I think it would be pointless to commence healing, and then stop

>before I get very far.

>

That's a good idea. How much weight have you lost so far? And what day

are you on now, anyway.

Deanna

officially certified hunter for most of N America

[Guest guest]

> Deanna

> officially certified hunter for most of N America

Deanne, I'm just dying to know: what does that mean? Are you hunting

now? Cool.. ~Robin Ann

[Guest guest]

On 8/8/05, Deanna Wagner <hl@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> >Fine. I drank dinner with my mother and grandparents today. They had

> >swordfish, squash, green beans, and salad; I had a nice, tall, cool

> >glass of water.

> >

> >

> What discipline!

The funniest thing is I came down (I live upstairs from them) a few

minutes late, and all of the serving dishes were right in my place,

since there was little room on the table. How sweet of them to put

big bowls of food in front of me! :-)

> >So, I'm just going to have to test things out as to how long I fast.

> >I think it would be pointless to commence healing, and then stop

> >before I get very far.

> >

> That's a good idea. How much weight have you lost so far? And what day

> are you on now, anyway.

I have no idea. Let me go weigh myself... I weigh 152, which is a

pound more than I weighed two days ago or so, although I've been up

for a few hours and tend to gain weight during the day. So I've lost

about 9 or 10 pounds. Of course, I had already lost 7 pounds in a

week from doing low-carb/Mastering Leptin.

I believe I am losing both fat and muscle mass, but I still appear to

be considerably more muscular than average so I'm not too worried

about it.

I'm on the 8th day. I water fasted for 36 hours, but felt

instinctively that I needed to add coconut water back in, so had a

glass last night and felt very good after it.

Right now, I'm having a " meal " of a glass of coconut water and a

teaspoon of coconut oil. I am thinking that I will add an additional

1 teaspoon of coconut oil per day this week, and begin to build up the

two meals I was eating before, and water in between, although still

liquid fasting. If I can get my hands on a good free form amino acid

supplement I might add that in too in liewise small increments, since,

although it is protein, the free form wouldn't need digestion, so I'm

still preserving all the elements of liquid fasting.

Then, at the end of the week, or beginning of next, I think I will add

a cup of bone broth to this " meal, " but will have to include HCl and

enzymes with it, since it has true proteins. I am going to start off

all food with HCl and enzymes for quite a while and then try to back

off the supplements later. Then, as suggested, after a few

days, I will add sauerkraut as first solid food, rare steak as second,

and ghee as third, one day at a time. I will hold off on all

starches, nuts, corn, eggs, and dairy for a long time. At some point

I will try butter and see if it affects me, although I'll try to get

goat butter or something, and then a couple months later cream, or

something like that. In any case I will space out all the foods that

are common allergens or have potential to affect dysbiosis, so I can

see the effect of each one.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 8/8/05, <slethnobotanist@...> wrote:

> While ginger is great for the digestive system and even for expelling

> gas (i.e. a carminative) and has many other wonderful properties, it

> is still a VERY potent medicinal when concentrated, much like cayenne

> and garlic, even though we tend to think of these things as just

> foods. So if you concentrate it in juice form make sure you dilute it

> with water first. Same goes for the lemon, dilute it before you drink

> it. Generally speaking you should mix 36 ounces of water for every six

> ounces of lemon juice. A little goes a long way, especially on a fast.

Well, I took it straight, but it was diluted in the sense that it was

one ounce of 4:1 lemon:ginger chased down with 6-8 oz water. Is there

much difference between mixing and chasing?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > Deanna

> > officially certified hunter for most of N America

Good for you! Found a book In Defense of Hunting by A. Swan at

the library book sale this weekend.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita,

>

>Good for you! Found a book In Defense of Hunting by A. Swan at

>the library book sale this weekend.

>

Thanks, Wanita. That looks like a good book. The class we took made a

big deal about ethics; for the sake of non hunters, and also for folks

that just don't have common sense.

Deanna