Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 > Has anyone ever been in a meeting where someone is asked to speak > and the individual fails to say " Hi I am __________ and I am an > alcoholic " and then until the individual does identify themselves by > name and label,people in the room will continue to yell " who are > you? " " who are you " " who are you " " whats your name " " are you an > alcoholic " " why are you here? " and this humiliation will continue > until name and label are clearly given. At that point everyone in the > room will howl with laughter and do the typical " Hi ________ " about > as loud and as enthusiastic as they can. > I always thought that was one of the cruelest things. I heard that crap far too many times while I was in the " rooms " . It is a way to gain control over the newcomers who tend to commit the cardinal sin of forgetting to say one's name or IDing themselves as addicts/alkies. Most twelve steppers are the biggest idiots who use this cult as an ego-builder at the expense of other people. http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 .. I noticed when I was in AA that everyone > seemed to love the chronic relapsers. while those who are sober without AA are scoffed at as " dry drunks " . AA wants people to never recover, if people could actual recover and get on with thier lives they wouldnt need AA, and its whole justification for existence would be threatened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 dmarcoot - Don't know how to think like the general public yet...Need time. Janice dmarcoot wrote: certainly steppers would, but i was speaking of the impression of the general and not informed public has of looking at AA from the outside.> > >> >Do we know this lady Tomboy? Just curious.> > >> >> > >> >P.> > >>> > >>> > >> >> Now, I love to learn and I love to debate,> > >>> > >> ... that in itself made you 'dangerous' in AA - there's only > so> > >> much you can learn about AA, and then there's the quote (I > think> > >> from> > >> the 12 & 12): "We resigned from the debating society". I can > see where> > >>> > >> just having that attitude helped lead you out.> > >>> > >> >so I thought I would> > >> > check out> > >> >> some of these links she was talking about , so at the > very least> > >> I> > >> > would be> > >> >> able to debate intelligently about anti-AA programs.> > >> >> I go to one site and it leads to another and another and > before I> > >>> > >> > knew it> > >> >> ,it was 3 am and my neck was sore from shaking it so > much. I was> > >> >> thunderstruck. I couldn't deny what I was reading. I finally > saw> > >> AA> > >> > for> > >> >> what it was.> > >>> > >> > I> > >> >> emailed the gal that I had become sworn enemies to. I > thanked her> > >>> > >> > for> > >> >> getting me thinking. I told her that I had left AA and I was > now> > >> > actively> > >> >> deprogramming myself.> > >> >> She wrote back that her jaw had hit her knees when she > received> > >> my> > >> > email!> > >>> > >> That's neat, it's wonderful. Such an occurrence of yours > seems> > >> unusual from the reactions of the trolls and near-trolls > we've seen> > >> here, and yet there are hundreds of subscribers lurking on > this> > >> list,> > >> presumable some of them are 'deprogramming' > themselves by reading> > >> our messages. The woman you're writing about might even > be a lurker> > >> here...> > >>> > >> >> kisses> > >> >> Tom IMnotA Boy> > >>> > >>> > >> ----------> > >> http://listen.to/benbradley> > >>> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 What kind of mediaction were you suposed to take? Drew. Tomboy wrote: Oh absolutely, I have been suicidally depressed on more than one occasion in the program. Every time I would get that depressed (ie. walking down to the ocean to jump off the pier) people in AA would warn me that if I took medication I wouldn't be sober. I felt like such a failure in AA for the longest time. Being depressed showed a sign of weekness that I wasn't following my program. Everytime I got that low I would *try* and*try and*try* to do the steps better. Of course that wouldn't help at all. So, I would go to more and more meetings and that wouldn't help. It was horrible. Since leaving AA I no longer feel any depression at all. kisses sunshine happy boy At 01:59 AM 18/12/01 -0700, you wrote: I am also concerned with whether or not AA can cause suicide. I mean, if you have someone who is prone to depression, and is coerced into accepting powerless, helpless, that can't help the person's psychological state. Drew dmarcoot wrote: > thats basically true, most people who have never been to aa or > or dont know anything about it probably do have a good > impression of what it is, a support group for alcoholics, a "self > help group". > > but its also funny when most people when they go to AA say its > religious too. until they are taught to literally ignore that fact. > > most people dont know AA basic principles is faith healing, the > 12 steps is a recipe for believing in, praying to and receiving > healing from a prayer answering god, whom they are expected to > turn their will over too. > > Not one of the 12 step deal with actually choosing to not drink or > self esteem and respect. on the contrary, that power to choose > not to drink is taught to be unattainable by the individual, they are > taught to be powerless in step One. god removes the desire of > the drink, not the person. > > if they knew that, they would say of course its a cult. its ironic, > people think of AA as self help. AA isn't self help, its self > helplessness. > > Magazines like Time credit bill wilson for removing the Stigma > alcoholics had before AA as being weak willed and immoral. > what was his solution he brought which was so revolutionary? > he taught they were "powerless", defective and needed god. he > taught hey had a physical "INCURABLE" disease of which there > was no real evidence of then nor almost 70 years later. go figure. > > > > >> >Do we know this lady Tomboy? Just curious. > > >> > > > >> >P. > > >> > > >> > > >> >> Now, I love to learn and I love to debate, > > >> > > >> ... that in itself made you 'dangerous' in AA - there's only > so > > >> much you can learn about AA, and then there's the quote (I > think > > >> from > > >> the 12 & 12): "We resigned from the debating society". I can > see where > > >> > > >> just having that attitude helped lead you out. > > >> > > >> >so I thought I would > > >> > check out > > >> >> some of these links she was talking about , so at the > very least > > >> I > > >> > would be > > >> >> able to debate intelligently about anti-AA programs. > > >> >> I go to one site and it leads to another and another and > before I > > >> > > >> > knew it > > >> >> ,it was 3 am and my neck was sore from shaking it so > much. I was > > >> >> thunderstruck. I couldn't deny what I was reading. I finally > saw > > >> AA > > >> > for > > >> >> what it was. > > >> > > >> > I > > >> >> emailed the gal that I had become sworn enemies to. I > thanked her > > >> > > >> > for > > >> >> getting me thinking. I told her that I had left AA and I was > now > > >> > actively > > >> >> deprogramming myself. > > >> >> She wrote back that her jaw had hit her knees when she > received > > >> my > > >> > email! > > >> > > >> That's neat, it's wonderful. Such an occurrence of yours > seems > > >> unusual from the reactions of the trolls and near-trolls > we've seen > > >> here, and yet there are hundreds of subscribers lurking on > this > > >> list, > > >> presumable some of them are 'deprogramming' > themselves by reading > > >> our messages. The woman you're writing about might even > be a lurker > > >> here... > > >> > > >> >> kisses > > >> >> Tom IMnotA Boy > > >> > > >> > > >> ---------- > > >> http://listen.to/benbradley > > >> > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 In my situation, AA was like an exclusive program. At the place where i worked (http://www.apch.org) at I had no idea what tha-fuck AA was. It is a non-profit org that is supposely attempting to clean up the community using AA as its core program(but they keep it a secret.). There they overwork you, offer you donated goodies and the head AAers pocket much of the donated money. Young adults from the community are their main targets for recruiting. They bait and hook you with bits of college money and therapy from being overworked. The therapists encourage you to get on meds. After softening you up on meds and one-on-one counseling, they gear you towards their mentoring program. They use the MBTI test to pair you up with a mentor/12-step lunatic sponsor. The sponsor I had wanted to meet my college counselors, to see weekly test scores and I was encouraged to leave my old friends and to have relationships only at the youth center(imagine a bunch of college students in their 20ties being babied). And if you attempt to leave their work force, they become paranoid and bribe you. If you return, they would start playing mind games as a punishment. they break your ego down and make you think like AA is the ONLY WAY. They secretly pay bullies to start fights so you can learn the admends process systematically. I was also geared to a home where the students eventually become 12-step participants. (un)fortunately i was pushed to a state of psycosis and almost became one of those scary wide-eyed sponsors myself. They were showing me how to recruit using the mbti test and religious methods. I was too much of an online reader. Online is where I came across aadeprogramming site which i believe saved my freaking life. I completely severed my ties to the orginization. I attempted to get another job and was mysteriously fired. Then I started wondering why everyone that left the center kept returning to the AA youth center. So I came to realize they they pay big bucks to get you fired and looking like a loser so you can return. They have LAPD officers for their security that also followed me around. I tried to go to the greyhound and the cops where there waiting for me and frowning. They whispered something to the ticket lady and my tickets where prosponed. I returned later and bought another but the story doesnt end there. At barstow california right before leaving cali, the bus was stopped by cops. a cop whispered something to the bus driver, they both looked at me, the cop got off and we departed.. In las vegas the bus driver whom had an awkward look told me to take the bus back to LA and steered everyone else to the correct terminal. I weaseled my way back to another bus that took me to my correct destination. I am now in safe for the meantime. The people i am dealing with have extreme power within government agencies and large business. My sponsor is a paid cut-throught politician/business executive. She happens to work with the head honchos of the city of LA. But as far as I am concerned all the money and power that I was given isnt worth the state that I was in. now i realize why shes in that depressive obsessive state herself. I feel much better now. I know i probally posted this story before...but its just a reminder of how power they have in california. I am coming to the conclusion that this is the new religion of our american empire. Novus Ordo Seclorum? It's a scary thought, but a possibility. Using the internet is perhaps our only hope to having AA removed from america. p.s. ...i am now enjoying a yummy beer. cheers --- coleandr coleandr@...> wrote: > What kind of mediaction were you suposed to take? > > Drew. > > Tomboy wrote: > > > Oh absolutely, I have been suicidally depressed > on more than one > > occasion in the program. Every time I would get > that depressed (ie. > > walking down to the ocean to jump off the pier) > people in AA would > > warn me that if I took medication I wouldn't be > sober. > > I felt like such a failure in AA for the longest > time. Being depressed > > showed a sign of weekness that I wasn't following > my program. > > Everytime I got that low I would *try* and*try > and*try* to do the > > steps better. Of course that wouldn't help at all. > So, I would go to > > more and more meetings and that wouldn't help. It > was horrible. > > Since leaving AA I no longer feel any depression > at all. > > > > kisses > > sunshine happy boy > > > > > > > > At 01:59 AM 18/12/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > >> I am also concerned with whether or not AA can > cause suicide. I > >> mean, if you > >> have someone who is prone to depression, and is > coerced into > >> accepting > >> powerless, helpless, that can't help the person's > psychological > >> state. > >> > >> > >> Drew > >> > >> dmarcoot wrote: > >> > >> > thats basically true, most people who have > never been to aa or > >> > or dont know anything about it probably do > have a good > >> > impression of what it is, a support group for > alcoholics, a " self > >> > help group " . > >> > > >> > but its also funny when most people when they > go to AA say its > >> > religious too. until they are taught to > literally ignore that > >> fact. > >> > > >> > most people dont know AA basic principles is > faith healing, the > >> > 12 steps is a recipe for believing in, praying > to and receiving > >> > healing from a prayer answering god, whom they > are expected to > >> > turn their will over too. > >> > > >> > Not one of the 12 step deal with actually > choosing to not drink or > >> > >> > self esteem and respect. on the contrary, that > power to choose > >> > not to drink is taught to be unattainable by > the individual, they > >> are > >> > taught to be powerless in step One. god > removes the desire of > >> > the drink, not the person. > >> > > >> > if they knew that, they would say of course its > a cult. its > >> ironic, > >> > people think of AA as self help. AA isn't self > help, its self > >> > helplessness. > >> > > >> > Magazines like Time credit bill wilson for > removing the Stigma > >> > alcoholics had before AA as being weak willed > and immoral. > >> > what was his solution he brought which was so > revolutionary? > >> > he taught they were " powerless " , defective and > needed god. he > >> > taught hey had a physical " INCURABLE " disease > of which there > >> > was no real evidence of then nor almost 70 > years later. go figure. > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Do we know this lady Tomboy? Just > curious. > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 > I am also concerned with whether or not AA can cause suicide. I mean, if you > have someone who is prone to depression, and is coerced into accepting > powerless, helpless, that can't help the person's psychological state. > > Drew Hi Drew, AA tries to plant that seed. In Bill's story, One poor chap committed suicide in my home. He could not, or would not, see our way of life. Also in We Agnostics, (55:5) find 'god' or self-destruct. netty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2001 Report Share Posted December 18, 2001 At 09:45 PM 12/18/01 -0000, dmarcoot wrote: > >. I noticed when I was in AA that everyone >> seemed to love the chronic relapsers. To those who 'went out' drinking and came back, other AA members can and often do say, " Thank you for drinking - your drinking helps keep me sober. You drank, so now I don't have to. " Many people actually do say in meetings that seeing someone come back after drinking " helps keep the memory green " , helping them to stay sober. >while those who are sober without AA are scoffed at as " dry >drunks " . To these they might say (if they were actually honest) " Why aren't you drinking? You should be drinking! Go ahead and drink, dammit, so I can stay sober! " >AA wants people to never recover, if people could actual >recover and get on with thier lives they wouldnt need AA, and its >whole justification for existence would be threatened. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 > > Drew - > Maybe you should go to a few 12-step meetings, if that's possible. Not just one. Several. You will be able to see and hear for yourself what is being " spoken " here. > Janice Janice, Please, This is like recomending that someone should drink Windex, just so you know for sure that is tastes really bad and makes you sick. Some things do nor reqire first hand knowledge. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 > >. I noticed when I was in AA that everyone > >> seemed to love the chronic relapsers. > > To those who 'went out' drinking and came back, other AA members > can and often do say, " Thank you for drinking - your drinking helps > keep me sober. You drank, so now I don't have to. " > Many people actually do say in meetings that seeing someone come > back after drinking " helps keep the memory green " , helping them to > stay sober. > ACK!!!! You brought up one that really gets my goat! I remember walking out a meeting when one of those pompus old-timers said " your relapse keeps me sober " to a young guy who had obviously been very traumatized by his experience. That was in spring of 2000 when I just started questioning the program. I thought: If I don't walk out of here right now, I'm going to end up in jail for assult and battery. I chose to leave the meeting. Devin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 Janice, I have to agree with Devin. i am sure your heart is in the right place, but going to such a group in my opinion, is unwise. God bless you, and may you have a wondeful Christmas. Sincerely, Drew. manypaths2 wrote: > > > > > Drew - > > Maybe you should go to a few 12-step meetings, if that's > possible. Not just one. Several. You will be able to see and > hear for yourself what is being " spoken " here. > > Janice > > Janice, Please, > > This is like recomending that someone should drink Windex, > just so you know for sure that is tastes really bad and makes you > sick. Some things do nor reqire first hand knowledge. > > Devin > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 > You brought up one that really gets my goat! I remember walking > out a meeting when one of those pompus old-timers said " your > relapse keeps me sober " to a young guy who had obviously > been very traumatized by his experience. That was in spring of > 2000 when I just started questioning the program. I thought: If I > don't walk out of here right now, I'm going to end up in jail for > assult and battery. I chose to leave the meeting. > > Devin That reminds me of this pompous born-again Christian old-timer at the Winter Park Group that I used to attend. He was sharing about how he could no longer have contact with his oldest daughter, who was about nineteen or twenty, because of her drinking and due to her being raped as if a sexual assault was a " character defect " . Yet all of the women steppers would always go up and hug this asshole after the meeting! http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 > > That reminds me of this pompous born-again Christian old-timer at the > Winter Park Group that I used to attend. He was sharing about how he > could no longer have contact with his oldest daughter, who was about > nineteen or twenty, because of her drinking and due to her being > raped as if a sexual assault was a " character defect " . Yet all of > the women steppers would always go up and hug this asshole after the > meeting! > > > Had I been there, I would either have to leave or get arrested. Isn't it great that we no longer have to feel any obligation to hug assholes. Devin - I'll never hug another asshole > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2001 Report Share Posted December 19, 2001 After making my decision to leave AA, I went to an open meeting with a member who had asked me to. I was really surprised at what I heard which I didn't (or couldn't) hear before becoming enlightened about AA's true purpose. Drew has a leg up in *hearing* about the negativity, but I think that actually going to a meeting or two he would see "how it works" first-hand. That's why I made the suggestion. Janice coleandr wrote: Janice, I have to agree with Devin. i am sure your heart is in the rightplace, but going to such a group in my opinion, is unwise.God bless you, and may you have a wondeful Christmas.Sincerely, Drew.manypaths2 wrote:> > >> > Drew -> > Maybe you should go to a few 12-step meetings, if that's> possible. Not just one. Several. You will be able to see and> hear for yourself what is being "spoken" here.> > Janice>> Janice, Please,>> This is like recomending that someone should drink Windex,> just so you know for sure that is tastes really bad and makes you> sick. Some things do nor reqire first hand knowledge.>> Devin>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2001 Report Share Posted December 22, 2001 see you on the dark side of the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2001 Report Share Posted December 22, 2001 Sounds a bit like AA - mixture of love (at least on the surface) and abuse -----Original Message----- From: skplws@... and as adults we then seek out family like groups where we get both love and abuse...it feels basic and normal to us at this point because we have conditioned OURSELVES ....new anchors required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2001 Report Share Posted December 23, 2001 Hi SKPLWS The Salvation Army started here in Nottingham they have their own can of worms with the ways and practises (no subject) > SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT SALVATION ARMY...I'M NOT A CHRISTIAN > FUNDAMENTALIST...THEY WERE HELPING PEOPLE A HUNDRED YEARS > BEFORE AA WAS EVEN A WET DREAM. AFTER YEARS OF HAVING > MY ORGANIZATIONS SOLICITED FOR DONATIONS I HAVE SETTLED ON THE RED CROSS AND > SALVATION ARMY (SALLY) > ALSO, THEY'RE ORINGINALLY FROM ENGLAND....THER WILL ALWAYS BE AN ENGLAND BUT > THERE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE AN AA. > RUN LIKE HELL! > PINK FLOYD > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2001 Report Share Posted December 23, 2001 Must admit the words to Bobby Brown are a lot more relevant than the Big Book Dont get me started on the JW's, did some research on them a year ago when my wife was getting interested in them, she soon dropped it when she found out some of the truth about them. (no subject) > The Jehova Witnesses have five times as many members as they did at the > turn of the last century...they wrongly predicted the end of the world five > times > in the twentieth century. > Zappa once said:They aren't gettin any smarter out there..so beware. > > CALL ANY VEGETABLE AND IT WILL RESPOND TO YOU...ZAPPA > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2001 Report Share Posted December 25, 2001 Merry Christmas Lyn to you and your sweet family! Love, beth >From: Luckylyn38@... >Reply-To: AtresiaMicrotia >To: landb218@..., Rashraf@..., >AtresiaMicrotia , Dcjs1490@..., DAB867@..., >FLAMES8124@..., Cdc210@..., birdie2@..., >Rocking@..., rynfees@..., Goathead18@..., >Foleys@..., davegen@..., Cgradi@..., >Champsx7@..., TERRYG5918@..., JIMLORI66@..., >LJarolimek@..., RJarolimek@..., wavrunr789@..., >Jordanjp@..., Jujordan@..., Dream219@..., >Mnjinc1@..., MSpreadbury@..., Smstaj@..., >FNMSUHM@..., Tfamily5@..., USALDT1@..., >7806@..., Bandit1218@... >Subject: (no subject) >Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 01:24:53 EST > >MERRY CHRISTMAS > ALL! >Love, >, Lyn, >Riley & Trevor >and KC-Rocket _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2001 Report Share Posted December 27, 2001 In a message dated 12/25/01 10:29:01 AM Central Standard Time, Heyboucher@... writes: << Merry Christmas Lyn to you and your sweet family! Love, beth >> Thank you beth! Hope you had a great Christmas! Love, Lyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Sorry Joanna, I have dry skin and hair!! Cara in Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 I don't have it. Dry skin, dry scalp. Lotion, lotion, lotion. Love Carolyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 For what it's worth, I have very dry skin, and my hair's been super dry since the CU began, full of split ends! Especially with the winter, and the furnace blowing. And before the CU, I still never had oily skin or hair, it was still dry but not as dry as lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 I do. Oily face and hair at least. Not the rest of my skin, just my face. My hair has always been oily - have to wash it daily and if I was going somewhere special for the evening, again before I'd go out. I've been noticing that lots of people with CU have oily skin and hair. Is that the norm for CU patience? If so, any ideas as to why? Thanks a bunch Joanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2002 Report Share Posted February 19, 2002 Oily or dry skin and hair... I don't think there is a norm for CU patients in general. Probably depends on the underlying cause of the CU, and any other unrelated conditions a person has. Thyroid levels apparently affect the natural skin and hair oils. So can washing with too hot of water, though.... I've always had normal skin and hair, sometimes get a bit dry during the winter. Air hugs, Jackie Life is tough, but I'm tougher. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- To: " Bob Napientek " rnapientek@...> Cc: " " jwillie92@...>, r.numata@...>, " Cliff Merems " cliffmerems@...>, " terry dallin " terdal1@...> Subject: Fw: (no subject) Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 16:43:07 -0800 (no subject) The FuneralA well-known cardiologist died and was given an elaborate funeral. A hugeheart covered in flowers stood behind the casket during the service.Following the eulogy, the heart opened, and the casket rolled inside. Theheart then closed, sealing the doctor in the beautiful heart forever. Atthat point one of the mourners burst into laughter.When confronted, he said "I'm sorry, I was just thinking of my own funeralI'm a gynecologist." At that point, the proctologist fainted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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