Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 " baystarems " <baystarems@m...> wrote: > > All we want at this point is for the charges to be dropped against > our paramedic. I certainly respect that, but I hope you eventually set your sights higher. I want to see heads roll in LaPorte. The dispatcher, the EMS supervisor, and the all cop fired at the very least. Decertification for the EMS supervisor. Federal civil rights charges for the police department. Major civil charges against the city from the family. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 " baystarems " <baystarems@m...> wrote: > > All we want at this point is for the charges to be dropped against > our paramedic. I certainly respect that, but I hope you eventually set your sights higher. I want to see heads roll in LaPorte. The dispatcher, the EMS supervisor, and the all cop fired at the very least. Decertification for the EMS supervisor. Federal civil rights charges for the police department. Major civil charges against the city from the family. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, Texas Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise! http://proemseducators.com/index.html _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:03 PM To: Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte > Yes before i'm blasted the city has a permit clause, but > then the duty to act has been etablished with the call Baystar and > LPEMS never acted until late. Okay, so call me Rob, but how is there a DUTY to act when responding to a private, non-emergency call for service? There is a CONTRACT to act, an agreement between the caller and the private EMS service, but DUTY involves an absolute requirement to perform an action - in this case, to respond. Baystar had no DUTY, as they could have refused the call for any number of reasons. In this case, however, had it been an EMERGENCY call, LPEMS seems to have the DUTY to act. Being a non-emergency call, their city ordinance allows them to accept or reject the CONTRACT to act, or to allow a licensed provider to accept that contract instead. Regardless of the Baystar/LPEMS licensing agreement, whether or not LPEMS rolled the call to Baystar (as it appears from dispatch transcripts and witness statements they did), Baystar had no DUTY to act, just a CONTRACTED AGREEMENT to respond. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, Texas Don't miss the Western States EMS Cruise! http://proemseducators.com/index.html _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:03 PM To: Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte > Yes before i'm blasted the city has a permit clause, but > then the duty to act has been etablished with the call Baystar and > LPEMS never acted until late. Okay, so call me Rob, but how is there a DUTY to act when responding to a private, non-emergency call for service? There is a CONTRACT to act, an agreement between the caller and the private EMS service, but DUTY involves an absolute requirement to perform an action - in this case, to respond. Baystar had no DUTY, as they could have refused the call for any number of reasons. In this case, however, had it been an EMERGENCY call, LPEMS seems to have the DUTY to act. Being a non-emergency call, their city ordinance allows them to accept or reject the CONTRACT to act, or to allow a licensed provider to accept that contract instead. Regardless of the Baystar/LPEMS licensing agreement, whether or not LPEMS rolled the call to Baystar (as it appears from dispatch transcripts and witness statements they did), Baystar had no DUTY to act, just a CONTRACTED AGREEMENT to respond. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 " E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP " <bbledsoe@e...> wrote: > > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated. The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911 caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance. The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911 caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess. LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly for it. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 " E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP " <bbledsoe@e...> wrote: > > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same issue came > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law stated. The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911 caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance. The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911 caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess. LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly for it. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer. Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting (www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at. Our organization have been in contact with each other since October 1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this. > > > > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same > issue came > > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law > stated. > > The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard > of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call > screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911 > caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance. > The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911 > caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the > information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to > trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach > of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess. > > LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into > commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under > false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly > for it. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer. Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting (www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at. Our organization have been in contact with each other since October 1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this. > > > > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same > issue came > > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law > stated. > > The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard > of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call > screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911 > caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance. > The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911 > caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the > information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to > trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach > of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess. > > LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into > commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under > false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly > for it. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 FYI - the La Porte EMS superivsor who met our crew and prevented them from entering the house was Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS Director, who is also a Galveston County Reserve Officer. Ray knew we were in the permitting process. This is documented in the minutes at the Greater Houston EMS council meeting (www.ghems.org November meeting, which Ray was at. Our organization have been in contact with each other since October 1st. During this time, we have never been treated like this. > > > > By the service accepting the call, there is a duty to act. Same > issue came > > up with the DFD several years ago and this is what the case law > stated. > > The Dallas incident is what immediately came to my mind when I heard > of the LaPorte situation. For those who don't remember, a call > screening RN for DFD decided to get into a pissing match with a 911 > caller over phone etiquette rather than to dispatch an ambulance. > The patient died. In both cases, and regardless of whether the 911 > caller specifically requested " non-emergency " transport or not, the > information provided by the caller should have been sufficient to > trigger an emergency response. That appears to be the major breach > of duty to act that resulted in this entire mess. > > LaPorte's obvious and documented plan to entrap Baystar into > commmitting a class C misdemeanor by luring them into the city under > false pretenses is a whole nother issue. And I hope they pay dearly > for it. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Wes, when I grow up, I wanna be JUST like you! What law school did you go to? I want to apply there!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Wes, when I grow up, I wanna be JUST like you! What law school did you go to? I want to apply there!!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Seriously, when my 20 year attempt at a BS is over, I'd like to discuss LSAT's with you :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I'll make up for it Lou, WHOOP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Currently it is all speculation and as was noted time and again, only the participating parties know the truth. I find it difficult to assume that BS would disregard ALL regard for the local author ties and as they claim they were " CLEARED " . Time and tapes will tell the truth. Jack Pitcock wrote: LP could have already issued multiple warnings to BayStar with no results.. Jack _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of parafireman04 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:37 AM To: Subject: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte Looks like also LPEMS was waiting for a service to setup and enforce this clause on and Baystar just happen to fall in place at the right time for them. Jeff FF/EMT-P Houston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 " hatfield " <hatfield@n...> wrote: > > What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to > sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss > and make up, and walk away from the table. I'm sure that's what Ray Nolan is praying for at this point. It beats unemployment, which is what should happen at the very least. Both DSHS and TCLEOSE need to take a hard look at his behaviour in this incident. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Easy there big boy... Dudley Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte Nope, no maroon. I've got a real education, not a SPECIAL education. ;-) Hook 'em and Guns Up, Wes In a message dated 12/30/2005 4:49:51 PM Central Standard Time, lnmolino@... writes: In a message dated 12/30/2005 4:46:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, ExLngHrn@... writes: Thanks Mike.... I'm blushing. BA in government and sociology from the University of Texas. Master's in Public Administration from Texas State University - San Marcos (formerly SW Texas State).... law degree from Texas Tech University in Lubbock. -Wes What no Maroon in those veins? Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well, all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called, they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc. Things may have changed over the last few years. Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened, excluding the family and the patient. What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss and make up, and walk away from the table. The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the third side of the story either.:-) Mike Hatfield FF/EMT-P Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well, all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called, they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc. Things may have changed over the last few years. Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened, excluding the family and the patient. What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss and make up, and walk away from the table. The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the third side of the story either.:-) Mike Hatfield FF/EMT-P Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Is that what clearance was given for? Code 3? San does that as well, all it does is let the FD (here it is the FD) know that we are traveling with L & S, nothing more nothing less. The person giving code 3 clearance has no idea if you are a permitted service or not, that falls under an assumption. I worked for a private service in San , when we called, they asked our service name, and the address we were responding to, that's it. They had no idea where we were from, if we were licensed or not, etc. Things may have changed over the last few years. Some of this, I fear, may come out to be a bit of a turf war, some will come out as a failure to communicate, but I am beginning to get the feeling that everyone involved will bear some of the responsibility for what happened, excluding the family and the patient. What needs to happen, is after all is calm, the services involved need to sit down and discuss what happened, figure out a way to avoid a repeat, kiss and make up, and walk away from the table. The extreme to which this was carried is amazing, but I have yet to hear the third side of the story either.:-) Mike Hatfield FF/EMT-P Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte Ray Nolan, the La Porte EMS director was also involved, along with an officer, in the take down of my paramedic. Did you ever believe that you would hear of one paramedic helping arrest another paramedic just because he was doing his job and simply requesting his supervisor to be there during the incident. My paramedic did not know what was going on. All he knew at that time was that he was being dispatched to a La Porte residence for a call of a medical nature. He also knew he was cleared to respond to the call emergency traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Hey Mike.....back in the day before I got out of LE, it was against the law to resist " arrest " even if the arrest or " detention " was unlawful/wrongful. Since none of us know the real story, assume the cop was " roughing " the medic up, and the medic " defended " himself, then the the medic could still be charged with " resisting arrest " if there was " furtherence " or " interefering with the official duties of a peace officer. " Not saying it's right, but isn't that still the case? CB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock? Kirk EMT-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Forgive my ignorance, but what is a Buck Cross Lock? Kirk EMT-B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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