Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 T3-only treatment worries: Bekymringer om enbart-T3 behandling: 1.) If I take T3-only now, and after a trial of Dessicated Thyroid later proves out to not work, I will have to take T3-only forever. T3 is synthetic, and will NOT be the same, nor as good as taking Dessicated Thyroid. However, if the rT3 problem persists, T3-only WILL be better. But not technically better, as Dessicated is a way superior medicine, in reality. 2.) Now that I'm increasing my HC-dose (up from 20 to 22.5 mg 4 days ago) I might get some kind of " overdose " of T3 into my cells. Maybe this an explain the shaking I am feeling now, after raising my HC by 2.5 mg? I don't think I can start to shake only because I take more HC, HC being the culprit itself? Shaking is usually a symptom of Low Cortisol. But it can also be T3 reacing into the cells? 3.) My low Ferritin. It's in the 40s. Our range goes from 20 to 300. I am currently taking 2 x 25 mg Amino Ferrochel Iron daily. I started taking 1 x 25 mg daily about 6 weeks ago. I have seen a raise from 25 or so, to 45 in these weeks that have passed. I hope this number is not too misleading, considering I haven't stopped taking iron 5 days before taking the blood sample. Some say you can get Atrial Fibrillation from having too low Ferritin and taking T3. But I got Atrial Fibrillation while taking 100 mcg T4 , 40 mcg T3 and having a Ferritin at 166 in January 2008. I just don't want to get that fib again! 4.) I don't really know if my health could have improved with ERFA Thyroid until I've tried to increase the dose. Of course the fear of developing more and more rT3 exists. And my FT3 to rT3 ratio is already at 14.9 - Doesn't this PROVE I have an rT3 problem? Does anyone know which ratio is better? FT3 to rT3? TT3 to rT3 or that last method which I learned from my first specialist: " TT3 2.3 x 2 split 10 = 0.46 Ratio. The ratio should be within 20% of the rT3-value. " What do you think of this method? According to THIS method, I don't have an rT3-problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 T3-only treatment worries: Bekymringer om enbart-T3 behandling: 1.) If I take T3-only now, and after a trial of Dessicated Thyroid later proves out to not work, I will have to take T3-only forever. T3 is synthetic, and will NOT be the same, nor as good as taking Dessicated Thyroid. However, if the rT3 problem persists, T3-only WILL be better. But not technically better, as Dessicated is a way superior medicine, in reality. 2.) Now that I'm increasing my HC-dose (up from 20 to 22.5 mg 4 days ago) I might get some kind of " overdose " of T3 into my cells. Maybe this an explain the shaking I am feeling now, after raising my HC by 2.5 mg? I don't think I can start to shake only because I take more HC, HC being the culprit itself? Shaking is usually a symptom of Low Cortisol. But it can also be T3 reacing into the cells? 3.) My low Ferritin. It's in the 40s. Our range goes from 20 to 300. I am currently taking 2 x 25 mg Amino Ferrochel Iron daily. I started taking 1 x 25 mg daily about 6 weeks ago. I have seen a raise from 25 or so, to 45 in these weeks that have passed. I hope this number is not too misleading, considering I haven't stopped taking iron 5 days before taking the blood sample. Some say you can get Atrial Fibrillation from having too low Ferritin and taking T3. But I got Atrial Fibrillation while taking 100 mcg T4 , 40 mcg T3 and having a Ferritin at 166 in January 2008. I just don't want to get that fib again! 4.) I don't really know if my health could have improved with ERFA Thyroid until I've tried to increase the dose. Of course the fear of developing more and more rT3 exists. And my FT3 to rT3 ratio is already at 14.9 - Doesn't this PROVE I have an rT3 problem? Does anyone know which ratio is better? FT3 to rT3? TT3 to rT3 or that last method which I learned from my first specialist: " TT3 2.3 x 2 split 10 = 0.46 Ratio. The ratio should be within 20% of the rT3-value. " What do you think of this method? According to THIS method, I don't have an rT3-problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 From STTM's Adrenal FAQ: " 44) What is a " Thyroid Dump " ? Persons who have been low on cortisol may have had the thyroid hormones " pooling " in the blood. One of the reasons to start HC with very small doses, and increase gradually, is to avoid a sudden rush of thyroid hormones into the cells of the body. When that happens, you may feel extreme anxiety, racing heart, and/or other uncomfortable symptoms. If you feel this discomfort, even after decreasing the Armour, patients find it helpful to stop the Armour completely for a day or two or more, then raise back up. " Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 From STTM's Adrenal FAQ: " 44) What is a " Thyroid Dump " ? Persons who have been low on cortisol may have had the thyroid hormones " pooling " in the blood. One of the reasons to start HC with very small doses, and increase gradually, is to avoid a sudden rush of thyroid hormones into the cells of the body. When that happens, you may feel extreme anxiety, racing heart, and/or other uncomfortable symptoms. If you feel this discomfort, even after decreasing the Armour, patients find it helpful to stop the Armour completely for a day or two or more, then raise back up. " Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >I was never like this before. Weird. >I am on 22.5 mg HC now. Yesterdays dose was 27.5 mg HC with the 5.0 mg >stress-dose. It still sounds like Val is right, you need more HC, you seemed better yesterday when you stress dosed. That's saying you are going to need more Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >I was never like this before. Weird. >I am on 22.5 mg HC now. Yesterdays dose was 27.5 mg HC with the 5.0 mg >stress-dose. It still sounds like Val is right, you need more HC, you seemed better yesterday when you stress dosed. That's saying you are going to need more Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Weeeell...... I've felt weird every day since I _increased_ my HC to 22.5+ mg daily. Trying to figure out why I feel worse when increasing HC. Cause I didn't do any other changes. EXCEPT changing my sleeping schedule! Waking up 3 hours before I usually do, going to bed 1-2 hours before I usually do. Can THAT make me feel this way? Shaking and stuff? Or can it be ACTH shutting down with the 2.5 mg dose increase, creating a bigger need for HC? > > >I was never like this before. Weird. > >I am on 22.5 mg HC now. Yesterdays dose was 27.5 mg HC with the 5.0 mg > >stress-dose. > > It still sounds like Val is right, you need more HC, you seemed better > yesterday when you stress dosed. > > That's saying you are going to need more > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Weeeell...... I've felt weird every day since I _increased_ my HC to 22.5+ mg daily. Trying to figure out why I feel worse when increasing HC. Cause I didn't do any other changes. EXCEPT changing my sleeping schedule! Waking up 3 hours before I usually do, going to bed 1-2 hours before I usually do. Can THAT make me feel this way? Shaking and stuff? Or can it be ACTH shutting down with the 2.5 mg dose increase, creating a bigger need for HC? > > >I was never like this before. Weird. > >I am on 22.5 mg HC now. Yesterdays dose was 27.5 mg HC with the 5.0 mg > >stress-dose. > > It still sounds like Val is right, you need more HC, you seemed better > yesterday when you stress dosed. > > That's saying you are going to need more > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >T3-only treatment worries: Replies interspersed with questions > > Bekymringer om enbart-T3 behandling: > >1.) If I take T3-only now, and after a trial of Dessicated Thyroid > later proves out to not work, I will have to take T3-only forever. It it doesn't work then there is nothing to stop you going back to any other regime. The " T3 only period " does not make any permanent changes to stop you using other meds if they work for you. I feel better on T3 than I did on any dose of natural and intend to stay there permanently. I have just given away 3000 grains of good natural that I had stashed away to friends that are on Natural as I won't be using it. > T3 is synthetic, and will NOT be the same, nor as good as taking > Dessicated Thyroid. However, if the rT3 problem persists, T3-only > WILL be better. But not technically better, as Dessicated is a > way superior medicine, in reality. For many people Natural is better than T4 only or T4/T3 synthetic mix. It was for me. If your metabolism has trouble utilising T4 then it is not " better " , for me synthetic T3 only leaves me feeling better than I did on Natural. > >2.) Now that I'm increasing my HC-dose (up from 20 to 22.5 mg 4 days > ago) I might get some kind of " overdose " of T3 into my cells. > Maybe this an explain the shaking I am feeling now, after raising > my HC by 2.5 mg? I don't think I can start to shake only because > I take more HC, HC being the culprit itself? Shaking is usually > a symptom of Low Cortisol. But it can also be T3 reacing into the > cells? With the little bit of T3 you haave that is incredibly unlikely, you would have a fast pulse and high temmperature if that was the case. > >3.) My low Ferritin. It's in the 40s. Our range goes from 20 to 300. > I am currently taking 2 x 25 mg Amino Ferrochel Iron daily. > I started taking 1 x 25 mg daily about 6 weeks ago. I have seen > a raise from 25 or so, to 45 in these weeks that have passed. > I hope this number is not too misleading, considering I haven't > stopped taking iron 5 days before taking the blood sample. When you tried the 100 did you take it in a single dose?? If so try taking it in two doses, you can take iron 1 hour after T3 and then wait 4 hours before taking more T3, that will be fine while you are dosing twice a day, When you dose more frequently then taking the T3 subligually means you don't get any interaction with iron, > Some say you can get Atrial Fibrillation from having too low > Ferritin and taking T3. But I got Atrial Fibrillation while > taking 100 mcg T4 , 40 mcg T3 and having a Ferritin at 166 > in January 2008. I just don't want to get that fib again! That fib was nearly 2 years ago. Were you low cortisol then?? If you were that would explain the high serum FT3 that you said about. That high FT3 was probably the cause of the A Fib and was only there BECAUSE the cortisol was too low to let the FT3 be utilised into the cells. That low cortisol would also cause that T4 to convert to RT3 further preventing the T3 being properly utilised. Going the route of T3 only WITH adrenal support won't cause the same thing to repeat PROVIDED the dose is altered slowly and there is ENOUGH adrenal support.. >4.) I don't really know if my health could have improved with ERFA > Thyroid until I've tried to increase the dose. Of course the > fear of developing more and more rT3 exists. And my FT3 to rT3 > ratio is already at 14.9 - Doesn't this PROVE I have an rT3 > problem? Does anyone know which ratio is better? FT3 to rT3? > TT3 to rT3 or that last method which I learned from my first > specialist: FT3 to RT3 is the preferred ratio. That ratio indicates that you are having trouble utilising the T4 and Erfa won't help with that. > > " TT3 2.3 x 2 split 10 = 0.46 Ratio. The ratio should be within > 20% of the rT3-value. " > > What do you think of this method? According to THIS method, I > don't have an rT3-problem! No experience of it > > Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 >mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? not likely with the small dose of thyroid you are on, that's more common for someone on 4 or 5 grains Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 >mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? not likely with the small dose of thyroid you are on, that's more common for someone on 4 or 5 grains Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >Weeeell...... I've felt weird every day since I _increased_ >my HC to 22.5+ mg daily. Trying to figure out why I feel >worse when increasing HC. Cause I didn't do any other >changes. EXCEPT changing my sleeping schedule! Waking up 3 >hours before I usually do, going to bed 1-2 hours before I >usually do. Can THAT make me feel this way? Shaking and >stuff? Unlikely >Or can it be ACTH shutting down with the 2.5 mg dose >increase, creating a bigger need for HC? Very likely, or adrenaline being produced which can leave you feeling wired and shaky. That can end up being produced by adrenals if they can't make enough cortisol. Adrenaline is more likely to give a fast heart though. Sounds like more HC is worth a trial. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Like I thought. But why on earth do I get this shaking/strange feeling in my body then? It appeared only after taking extra HC. I was " ok " on 20 mg. Then, four days ago, I increased the dose by adding 2.5 mg as a " stress dose " , cause I had not slept that night at the hospital and felt very lousy. Then, 22.5 the next day, and 27.5 yesterday (I added 5.0 mg as a stress dose cause I thought I had forgotten one of my daily doses that day!), and it's gonna be 22.5 today as well.. Now. I realize I can feel weird from many things. It can be electrolytes? Just HYPO? It is strange, however, that this change happened right after upping my dose by 2.5 mg to 22.5. Last time I upped the dose to 22.5 I went down to 20 again, cause I didn't feel good on 22.5. Now I'm back on 22.5 and I still don't feel good with it. I don't want to do any mistakes, so I will try to stay on 22.5. And the increase to 25 mg in a week or so. BUT... What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more slow and calm? > > >Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 > >mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? > > not likely with the small dose of thyroid you are on, that's more > common for someone on 4 or 5 grains > > Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Like I thought. But why on earth do I get this shaking/strange feeling in my body then? It appeared only after taking extra HC. I was " ok " on 20 mg. Then, four days ago, I increased the dose by adding 2.5 mg as a " stress dose " , cause I had not slept that night at the hospital and felt very lousy. Then, 22.5 the next day, and 27.5 yesterday (I added 5.0 mg as a stress dose cause I thought I had forgotten one of my daily doses that day!), and it's gonna be 22.5 today as well.. Now. I realize I can feel weird from many things. It can be electrolytes? Just HYPO? It is strange, however, that this change happened right after upping my dose by 2.5 mg to 22.5. Last time I upped the dose to 22.5 I went down to 20 again, cause I didn't feel good on 22.5. Now I'm back on 22.5 and I still don't feel good with it. I don't want to do any mistakes, so I will try to stay on 22.5. And the increase to 25 mg in a week or so. BUT... What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more slow and calm? > > >Is it possible to get a Thyroid Dump when I've already been on 20 > >mg HC for 6 months, and NOW increase the dose??? > > not likely with the small dose of thyroid you are on, that's more > common for someone on 4 or 5 grains > > Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >BUT... >What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement >of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more >slow and calm? Who knows, try it and see. Hypoglaecemia is a common cause of feeling shaky, That's a low cortisol thing. remember a small increase in dose can lead to a DECREASE in the system the next day if the feedback loop is screwed up Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >BUT... >What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement >of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more >slow and calm? Who knows, try it and see. Hypoglaecemia is a common cause of feeling shaky, That's a low cortisol thing. remember a small increase in dose can lead to a DECREASE in the system the next day if the feedback loop is screwed up Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 >BUT... >What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement >of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more >slow and calm? Who knows, try it and see. Hypoglaecemia is a common cause of feeling shaky, That's a low cortisol thing. remember a small increase in dose can lead to a DECREASE in the system the next day if the feedback loop is screwed up Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yeah I'm gussing I am in a feedback-loop thing now. How to avoid such a loop? To take more, and increase faster? Then how can I know if 22.5 if " right " for me or not? If I go to 25.0 tomorrow, I might go too fast? Only 4 days on 22.5 including today. Doesn't Medrol have harsher side-effects than HC or are they the same? CHF and heart failure are listed in the Medrol packing slip. THAT sounds scry. Heart failure. From WHAT? From not tolerating Medrol? Come to think of it. I started being " shaky " (not shaking massively, but my movement is not smooth and my hands are shaking a bit!) only the day after I started with 22.5 mg. Maybe the body needed 24 hours to respons to the 2.5 increase? How does ACTH work with these things? Val said something about that. > > >BUT... > >What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement > >of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more > >slow and calm? > > Who knows, try it and see. > > Hypoglaecemia is a common cause of feeling shaky, That's a low > cortisol thing. > > remember a small increase in dose can lead to a DECREASE in the system > the next day if the feedback loop is screwed up > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 Yeah I'm gussing I am in a feedback-loop thing now. How to avoid such a loop? To take more, and increase faster? Then how can I know if 22.5 if " right " for me or not? If I go to 25.0 tomorrow, I might go too fast? Only 4 days on 22.5 including today. Doesn't Medrol have harsher side-effects than HC or are they the same? CHF and heart failure are listed in the Medrol packing slip. THAT sounds scry. Heart failure. From WHAT? From not tolerating Medrol? Come to think of it. I started being " shaky " (not shaking massively, but my movement is not smooth and my hands are shaking a bit!) only the day after I started with 22.5 mg. Maybe the body needed 24 hours to respons to the 2.5 increase? How does ACTH work with these things? Val said something about that. > > >BUT... > >What if I am one of the few people who get a very high utilizement > >of HC, and need Medrol (Prednosolone) instead to make things more > >slow and calm? > > Who knows, try it and see. > > Hypoglaecemia is a common cause of feeling shaky, That's a low > cortisol thing. > > remember a small increase in dose can lead to a DECREASE in the system > the next day if the feedback loop is screwed up > > Nick > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/4/Sodium-imbalance.html Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/4/Sodium-imbalance.html Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 http://www.faqs.org/health/topics/4/Sodium-imbalance.html Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 > >Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for >us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! In the sort of doses that Val talks about I am sure it is safe. If you were to drink 10 litres of sea water then that's another matter. That article yur references said " Very high sodium levels can lead to seizures and death. " with the emphasis on VERY Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 > >Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for >us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! In the sort of doses that Val talks about I am sure it is safe. If you were to drink 10 litres of sea water then that's another matter. That article yur references said " Very high sodium levels can lead to seizures and death. " with the emphasis on VERY Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 > >Isn't this information important for us with low aldosterone, and for >us taking sea salt? I mean.. It's not totally safe to drink salt! In the sort of doses that Val talks about I am sure it is safe. If you were to drink 10 litres of sea water then that's another matter. That article yur references said " Very high sodium levels can lead to seizures and death. " with the emphasis on VERY Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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