That faulty iodine paper

October 5, 2009

Actually, Steve has a brain; so I don't have a lot of arguments with

him. Although we don't agree on everything. When he posts I never get

the idea that I need to send him back to kindergarten and up through

college in order to have an intelligent conversation with him.

Wink, wink.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 9:12 pm (PDT)

>

> Oh Steve, foo foo on you. There's " no credible research to prove "

> anything you are talking about. Why don't you just be quiet and stop

> talking all that " non-sense " ?

>

> Wink, Wink.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

> > > Years ago my internist told me to stay away from iodine because of

> the hypothyroid I have. I do that, and I have not seen any reason to

> change.

October 5, 2009

I strongly recommend research; especially for the small percentage of

hypo patients who do not do well with allopathic treatment. But your

research needs to be broad based. If all you read is quackery and you

do not have the education, experience or intelligence to detect the

obvious bs you have some great probability of becoming another of the

gullible. That's why I suggest you research beyond quack sites.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 9:19 pm (PDT)

>

> Hi Steve,

>

> Well, I guess my point is saying that, was that if people are under

> the care of a physician (as I understand Abraham and other Iodine docs

> HAVE suggested up front, and common sense should too), then when one

> runs into a problem with the iodine dose, instead of running to an

> online forum and complaining that one had a bad reaction to iodine,

> maybe one should consider that something about one's therapy has not

> been considered.

>

> Maybe they didn't take the recommended selenium and magnesium. Maybe

> they need to cut the dosage level. Maybe they need can't be on iodine

> treatment because they are allergic. Maybe the issue is transient

> anyway. Maybe they need to cut back on thyroid hormones, or increase.

> Who knows what else!?

>

> Take what I say with a grain of salt of course, as I say this in

> ignorance of actually having been on the treatment myself. I am still

> researching. But what I've read so far, these are some possibilities.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

October 5, 2009

Vitamin C has proven to be therapeutic in very large doses. Linus ing proved

that, and as far as the Bs, they are water solutble (as is C) and they all exit

in urine if there is too much. I don't think these things relate to iodine at

all. Talk about apples and footballs.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 9:02 PM

Well, you know what, ? I just took 10 grams of Vitamin C and also 100 mg

of most of the B vitamins. Guess what...I didn't die! not only that, but my

oncoming cold was VERY wimpy because of it. Today, I have NO symptoms of the

cold anymore.

, you have to remember that the RDA is a generic recommendation for a large

population that is designed to prevent severe disease in most people who ingest

the RDA. In the case of Vitamin C for instance, all 100mg is going to do is

help prevent scurvy. The RDA for Iodine is only designed to prevent goiter.

For most people.

says she was about " to die. " How do we know that she actually had a

definitely life-threatening reaction to it? The term " about to die " is often

just used as hyperbole. Maybe she could have. But we really don't know. I'm

not saying people out there don't have serious reactions to things, all I'm

saying is that a severe life threatening reactions to most vitamins and minerals

is pretty rare. A girl in Canada died a year or two ago just from kissing a boy

who had peanut butter residue on his lips. Are we supposed to severely restrict

peanut butter because ONE person we heard about in the news died?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > others]

> > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > >

> > > .

>

------------------------------------

October 5, 2009

Ken,

I am so glad I am finally not alone on this group in defense of iodine.

(Did you read my last e-mail?)

It has really changed my life.

Thank you.

Ali

On Oct 4, 2009, at 9:57 PM, kenancy2000 wrote:

> Excuse me, . In all the materials I have thus far (a video DVD,

> a book, an email from Dr. Abraham) they all say to take the therapy

> under the watch of a physician. A physician will normally tell

> someone what they know about iodine, correct?

>

> By the way, my wife's name is . I like you already!

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > >

> > > > > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> >

> > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> on the

> > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> lion's

> > > share.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> relationship.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > >

October 5, 2009

The problem goes both ways, unfortunately.

-- Re: That faulty iodine paper

Let's not forget about medical ghostwriting, too.

http://www.freedomofchoiceinhealthcare.ca/Articles/Misc/misc15.html

" Blair Snitch is paid to write up positive reports. So bad side effects that

could affect patient safety, are sometimes completely ignored.

Snitch makes over $100,000 a year as a medical ghostwriter. An article that

makes its way into a prestigious medical journal — like the Lancet, British

Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine — will earn up to $20,000. "

-Ken Bagwell

>

> Chuck,

>

> With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of

not being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know. Even Nature

and JAMA were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process. They let

people who own stock in companies whose products or articles are being

reviewed sit on the review board. A blatant conflict of interests.

>

> Mike

>

> >

> > The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> > pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> > has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

October 5, 2009

Please see responses below...

..

>

> Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@...

>

<mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> trishruk <trishruk>

>

> Mon Oct 5, 2009 1:00 am (PDT)

>

> > Well, I don't know about your doctor. My doctor who put my on

> statins is my cardiologist. And he explained very extensively that if

> I had any unexplained muscle pains or any other symptoms I was to

> inform him immediately, as some percentage of patients have reactions

> or side effects from statins that can be harmful or fatal. He also

> very closely monitors my other vitals, ordering blood work at

> intervals that to me seem excessive.

>

> Perhaps he moinitors your 'vitals' to cover himself be knows he is

> prescribing a toxic drug (statin); perhaps he has an interest in the

> lab doing the work (not suggesting he does, just speculating). He will

> know that statins reduce CoQ10:

..

He has no interest in the lab or labs; I go wherever I choose. Calling

a statin " toxic " is misleading, although about anything is high enough

dosage is toxic.

..

>

> Pasted from About.com: CoQ10 plays a key role in producing energy in

> the mitochondria, the part of a cell responsible for the production of

> energy in the form of ATP.

>

> >I also visit his office more often than I would like, and he always

> questions me carefully. But I can appreciate that perhaps he is just

> being careful.

>

> I don't mean to be impertinent, but why do yo visit him so often

> ...presumably because you are not feeling 100% ...??

..

I've never gone to see him because I was not feeling well. At one time

he was my family doctor, and he treats me for arrhythmia and elevated

cholesterol. He is exceedingly thorough, and takes time to listen to

me. He wants me to consider more extensive treatment for possible heart

problems but as long as I feel well I'm somewhat reluctant. What I need

to do is to correct my diet and get a bit more exercise.

..

>

> > And I already had arrhythmia; have had it all my life. No change

> with statins that I noticed; but I'm on a calcium blocker to control it.

>

> I live in Greece and (genetic) arrhythmia is incredibly common ...it

> is no problem if the heart is doing its job ...CoQ10 is needed by the

> heart ...

..

My blood pressure is always normal [i'm 68]. Before I started taking

the calcium blocker I would at times get extremely elevated heart rates

for several seconds or minutes at a time. The one time I was able to

get to the hospital while that was happening they thought I was having a

heart attack. But I coughed and converted to a normal [for me] rate.

Possibly a very high stress job situation may have contributed.

..

>

> It doesn't makes sense to me to try and 'control' a naturally occuring

> arrythimia ...why take X to fix something that probably isn't broken.

> (I acknowledge that I don't know your personal health situation and

> you may have to take the calcium channel blocker to stay alive).

>

> Has your cardiologist looked at the particle size of your LDL

> cholesterol ...I gather current unbiased research suggests that is

> where the potential for problems lies rather than cholesterol which

> is, as I am sure you will know, a building block and an incredibly

> VITAL part of the whole health state.

>

> Trish

..

I don't know about the particle size. At present my LDL to HDL ratio is

a little high, and I guess the total cholesterol is also.

..

>

> >

> > I am aware of the research that seems to indicate that statins do not

> > decrease mortality. I don't know how definitive they are, but at this

> > point I don't think they can be dismissed.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> > .

October 5, 2009

I am not arguing against the use of iodine, what I am arguing against is the

the blanket use of high doses of iodine to apply to all people and the

promotion of taking it without determining whether or not one has an

unsuspected allergy to it. Ergo trying at home for the first time.

-- Re: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Ken,

I am so glad I am finally not alone on this group in defense of iodine.

(Did you read my last e-mail?)

It has really changed my life.

Thank you.

Ali

On Oct 4, 2009, at 9:57 PM, kenancy2000 wrote:

> Excuse me, . In all the materials I have thus far (a video DVD,

> a book, an email from Dr. Abraham) they all say to take the therapy

> under the watch of a physician. A physician will normally tell

> someone what they know about iodine, correct?

>

> By the way, my wife's name is . I like you already!

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> >

> > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> on the

> > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> lion's

> > > share.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> relationship.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > >

October 5, 2009

Excuse me, Roni, I was talking about the RDA, if you didn't notice.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > > others]

> > > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > > >

> > > > .

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 5, 2009

Let's not forget that duplicity is a non discrimination characteristic. There

are bad people no matter where you look, allopathic medicine, drug companies,

insurance comapnies, naturopathic medicine, supplement companies, advertising

companies from both sides.

Â

Nobody has a lock on greed. It's all around us, and if anyone thinks their

preferred method of health care is devoid of it they had better wake up and

smell the coffee.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 1:31 AM

Let's not forget about medical ghostwriting, too.

http://www.freedomofchoiceinhealthcare.ca/Articles/Misc/misc15.html

" Blair Snitch is paid to write up positive reports. So bad side effects that

could affect patient safety, are sometimes completely ignored.

Snitch makes over $100,000 a year as a medical ghostwriter. An article that

makes its way into a prestigious medical journal â€” like the Lancet, British

Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine â€” will earn up to $20,000. "

-Ken Bagwell

>

> Chuck,

>

> With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of not

being credible in many cases, but which??Â You don't know.Â Even Nature and

JAMA were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process.Â They let

people who own stock in companies whose products or articles are being reviewed

sit on the review board.Â A blatant conflict of interests.

>

> Mike

>

> >

> > The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> > pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> > has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

------------------------------------

October 5, 2009

Try using this diet to reduce your cholesterol. Both high sugar and high

cholesterol can be reduced significantly by eating the right things.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cholesterol/CL00002

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: Shams <sshams93@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 2:15 AM

hi thank you for worrying . i stopped taking statins because i began loosing my

hair quickly . the dr said it's a successfull traetment that block cholesterol

" the bad one " and it succeede really and the lab tests shows the difference but

i loss my hair and this affects my mode and make me stressed all the time and

this affects tsh level which i never succeed to stabilize . any one can advise

me of other med that blocks cholesterol and not affecting my hair because i

already lose it because of hypothyrodism?

> > >

> > > > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

> > > responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

> > >

> > > You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> > > statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> > > acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> > > to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> > > Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> > > depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> > > " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> > > all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> > > doctor's insisted they go back on them.

> > >

> > > I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> > > performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> > > down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> > > although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> > > computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> > > statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> > > taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> > > I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> > > of worry over heart health.

> > >

> > > One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> > > taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> > > statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> > > and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> > > from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> > > I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> > > performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug

> > > experience.

> > >

> > > So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> > > doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> > > one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> > > Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> > > or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> > > information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> > > Americans to research.

> > >

> > > --

> > >

> > > Steve - dudescholar4@ <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

> > >

> > > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> > > run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

> > >

> > > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

> > >

> > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> > > <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html>

> >

>

------------------------------------

October 5, 2009

Hi Alison,

I should be clear about what I'm doing.

I'm looking at Iodine now, because of the claims by Abraham and others. I also

want to be careful, though, because the other side of the argument is that

iodine is considered my most people to be dangerous or at least unhealthy at

anything other than minute doses. I even have to go to UCSF just to get full

texts of studies I want because these " journals " want to charge $25 for a single

one.

I'm not so much trying to defend iodine, as I am trying to investigate it and

argue about it. I know it comes across to some that I'm little snot. But

really, in arguing about this with others, I am learning, getting pointed in

certain directions, etc. The debate method allows me to see errors or highlights

in my thinking. so far, what I'm seeing is that there is some misunderstanding

or just plain speculation about what Abraham and others are trying to say. As I

read their material, I want to see the exact errors, but I also don't want to be

led astray by thinking about things that they aren't actually saying.

For instance, one person says that Abraham and others are not warning people of

the dangers of Iodine. However, all the material I've seen thus far that

actually is used to guide people in using Iodine has been saying to also make

sure it is done under physician's supervision. I'm not talking about forums

posts or research papers, I'm talking about material for lay people, like DVDs

and books. Maybe the warnings aren't as strong as some people would like, but

honestly, if an author believes, through his own research or practice, that

iodine is not as dangerous as most have been teaching, why would he go through a

lot of effort to say " HEY! IODINE IS DANGEROUS! YOU MIGHT DIE!!! " That would

really be antithetical to his argument, even though it is known that a very few

people might be dangerously allergic to it. He's trying to promote it as a

health regimen that would benefit the majority of people, not spending time

trying to tell people they will die from it. I think Abraham and others already

know that most people will be warned by their doctors that Iodine could be

dangerous to a few allergic people. Brownstein says he's had 4 people so far

who had allergies to it. A very few people can actually die from a tiny bit of

peanut butter or honey. A nice Canadian teenage girl died from some a year or

two ago. Why aren't those foods taken off the market? Because you don't take

something off the market unless there is significant potential for real harm to

a lot of people.

In another instance, people want to say that Abraham and others are all

financially involved with each other and therefore this is a conflict of

interest and makes everything they say bunk. This same attitude however, is not

expressed very much when the issue is SSRIs, heart drugs, statin drugs, etc.

come up. In these cases, everything is supposedly all backed up by peer

reviewed research and outside sources, yet all the time we read that secret

settlements are made with harmed patients, officials are paid to be quiet,

doctors don't update themselves as often as they should, ghostwriters are

involved, drugs companies skew results, FDA officials are corrupted or quieted,

etc. Simultaneously, untold numbers of people are suffering side effects, even

life changing sides effects, and yet these people are thrown to the side of the

road because it somehow doesn't square with what some research has been shown on

the drug. This is all very disconcerting and shows me personally that the

medical system that is supposed to be so very careful with itself is VERY often

not, and at the same time, is also VERY slow to make progress.

It's not that I want to defend Iodine. I'm not going to start taking it, nor my

wife, who might possibly benefit from it, until I am reasonably convinced of two

things: that Iodine is not as dangerous as most have been taught, and that

taking it actually provides at least a modest benefit. But in speaking about

this with other people, all I see is disdain for real medical MDs who claim that

they are getting GOOD results using this substance. EIGHT real medical doctors

(some even Harvard-trained), and even previous unbelievers (like Brownstein),

are saying that current medical training on Iodine is wrong. If Iodine is so

dangerous, there should not be 8 guys using it on patients and claiming good

clinical results. The speculation (and that's all it is) that these guys are all

in bed with each other over some vague financial crookery is insane. You hear

that about one or two quacks in alternative medicine who are reaping huge money

from products, not 8 real MDs (some Hardard-trained). Well, maybe I should take

that back, MDs have reaped huge money through drug companies who offer various

perks and retained a good rep, but's that another issue. Anyway, I just watched

a 2 hour DVD by Brownstein. I dare anyone to watch it and tell me the guy is

insane or has ulterior motives. He says he treats his own family with the

stuff. This guy seems very genuine. I KNOW that's not proof of anything, but it

hints to me that this guy can be approached and reasoned with.

It doesn't help that all these studies done over the years on Iodine are

difficult to decipher because the only thing folks like us usually have access

to for free is abstracts that don't give all the details (what form of iodine

was used, what doses given, how long, were other symbiotic nutrients provided,

what thyroid measurments were taken, exactly). We also don't usually have

medical training that makes understanding these studies faster. So for us, going

through this all is a real chore, if you don't want to just swallow what

standard medicine says. It's also difficult, because many studies on Iodine are

actually on seaweed, which is not the same thing.

Take a look at Ignaz Semmelweis. He published studies about how hand washing

reduced mortality below 1%. Yet, what happened? Regardless of what proof

Semmelweis provided, he was refused any credibility until years later, after he

died.

Take a look at Linus ing. He provided excellent pointers to studies that

showed how Vitamin C can benefit people and wrote several books about it. Yet,

his own Oregon-based institute now belittles his work, the RDA is STILL only

100mg, and ing himself was bothered by how little attention the medical

establishment payed to something as simple and cheap as Vitamin C.

ing had actually expected there would be a kind of revolution after printing

the good news of Vit C. Yet...nothing. Afterwards he wrote that it was

painfully obvious that " studies " actually ended up making very little difference

in what the medical community would believe or not! Because the only thing that

mattered the most was WHO was saying it, and not WHAT was being said.

Reputation and prestige was more important than information! That's from a

double nobel winner and professor of chemistry.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> > >

> > > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> > on the

> > > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> > lion's

> > > > share.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> > relationship.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > > >

> > > >

October 5, 2009

I totally agree with you.

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> > Chuck,

> >

> > With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of not

being credible in many cases, but which??Â You don't know.Â Even Nature and

JAMA were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process.Â They let

people who own stock in companies whose products or articles are being reviewed

sit on the review board.Â A blatant conflict of interests.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > >

> > > The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> > > pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> > > has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

> > >

> > > Chuck

> > >

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 5, 2009

So was I. RDA is also not a one size fits all Rx as far as I'm concerned. Some

people can and do take high doses of certain vitamins and minerals. What I was

saying was that there is a definite difference from high dosing of vitamin C and

high dosing of arsenic. Poison is poison, and a low dose may not kill you, but a

high dose probably will.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 2:38 PM

Excuse me, Roni, I was talking about the RDA, if you didn't notice.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > > others]

> > > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > > >

> > > > .

> >

>

> ------------------------------------

>

October 5, 2009

But you see, I'm not yet convinced that iodine is poison.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > > > others]

> > > > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

October 5, 2009

So take it! Why are you going back and forth with this? If you want to take it,

do so, but

just remember it was your choice, should you become harmed by it.

Actually, I hope you don't take it. I would not like to see anyone harmed by

stubbornness.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:21 PM

But you see, I'm not yet convinced that iodine is poison.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > >

> > > > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > > > others]

> > > > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

October 5, 2009

You didn't read a word of what I said.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> > > on the

> > > > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> > > lion's

> > > > > share.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> > > relationship.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > >

October 5, 2009

Very odd question. You say you read what I wrote, but then you ask questions

that show you didn't. Why is that?

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the

past

> > > > > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > > > > others]

> > > > > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .

> > > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

October 5, 2009

Baloney. Numerous credible studies show that iodine at many times RDA

often dose not cause any obvious lasting ill effects in patients. The

objection of intelligent and educated people is not to iodine, which

after all is necessary for life; it is to the indiscriminate

" prescription " of iodine at thousands of times the RDA and to the claims

of health benefits from same that are totally unsubstantiated. Plus the

fact that for some tiny percentage of patients these " prescriptions "

could be very harmful or fatal.

..

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Mon Oct 5, 2009 4:13 pm (PDT)

>

> Hi Alison,

>

> I should be clear about what I'm doing.

>

> I'm looking at Iodine now, because of the claims by Abraham and

> others. I also want to be careful, though, because the other side of

> the argument is that iodine is considered my most people to be

> dangerous or at least unhealthy at anything other than minute doses.

October 5, 2009

At sufficient levels I suspect many if not most medicines can be

poisonous, as well as many ordinary substances. Drinking too much water

has killed people.

" Poison " has multiple levels of interpretation. I would not consider

iodine at normal levels a poison.

I would be strongly suspect of ANYONE who promotes the ingestion of

ANYTHING medical at thousands of times RDA without considerable support.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Mon Oct 5, 2009 4:21 pm (PDT)

>

> But you see, I'm not yet convinced that iodine is poison.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

October 5, 2009

Hi Roni,

To keep repeating that your mother suffered a bad reaction to " iodine " is not

useful. I emailed you about this personally to get details so that I could

learn how iodine affected your mom and whether that story squared with what I'm

reading now. You were completely unable to give me anything because you said it

happened a long time ago.

You do not know how much she was given. You do not know if it as sodium iodide

or iodine or anything else. You do not know if she was being monitored through

blood tests or ultrasounds. You do not know if she complained to the doctor

about side effects early on. You do not know how long she was on it. You told

me yourself you " don't recall the particulars " .

Guess what, Roni. My grandfather was an alcoholic and chain smoker. He died

from it at age 65, and suffered horrendously for years. My mother became

alcoholic after falling into depression over a job loss when I was 11. She died

2 years later because of it. I could call alcohol poison, too, and avoid it for

life out of fear of what " it " did to someone else. But I still enjoy a nice

glass of wine or a beer occasionally. You can't let a bad reaction to something

scare you away for life just because other people abused it, or didn't use it

properly.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> > > on the

> > > > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> > > lion's

> > > > > share.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> > > relationship.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > >

October 5, 2009

All you're saying is that I should have qualified the word " minute " . Sheesh.

OK, up to 10x the RDA, is still minute compared to what we've been discussing

(1000s of times the RDA).

-Ken Bagwell

>

> Baloney. Numerous credible studies show that iodine at many times RDA

> often dose not cause any obvious lasting ill effects in patients. The

> objection of intelligent and educated people is not to iodine, which

> after all is necessary for life; it is to the indiscriminate

> " prescription " of iodine at thousands of times the RDA and to the claims

> of health benefits from same that are totally unsubstantiated. Plus the

> fact that for some tiny percentage of patients these " prescriptions "

> could be very harmful or fatal.

>

> .

>

> > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

> >

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

> >

> > Mon Oct 5, 2009 4:13 pm (PDT)

> >

> > Hi Alison,

> >

> > I should be clear about what I'm doing.

> >

> > I'm looking at Iodine now, because of the claims by Abraham and

> > others. I also want to be careful, though, because the other side of

> > the argument is that iodine is considered my most people to be

> > dangerous or at least unhealthy at anything other than minute doses.

>

October 5, 2009

mikensd wrote:

>

> With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of

> not being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know....

I know enough to know this is an unconscionably gross exaggeration, just

plain slander, with no due respect whatsoever. I have sat on three NIH

review boards and have reviewed a number of submissions for publication

and grant proposals. Just because someone owns stock in a company,

doesn't mean they can't render a professional judgment, even if that

creates the appearance of a conflict of interest. It certainly does not

warrant the dismissal of the entire process as " tainted " nor any other

wacko conspiracy theory. The fact that this problem was publicized shows

that even the appearance of a conflict is not to be tolerated.

Chuck

October 5, 2009

I just watched a replay of a Dr. Oz show where he states that when the body is

stimulated

(my shortened wording) to produce excess cortisol it works on creating belly

fat, plaque in the arteries and diabetes. My point in printing this is that if

the body reacts to its own cortisol that way which is produced in the body,

imagine what excess outside iodine will do. The body over produces cortisol as a

response to stress, and since the body doesn't reason, just reacts chemically

giving it excess iodione makes the body think it's under stress, and the

reactions will be the same. If this doesn't sound dangerous to anyone, I don't

know what would.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 4:42 PM

You didn't read a word of what I said.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> > > on the

> > > > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> > > lion's

> > > > > share.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> > > relationship.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > >

October 5, 2009

I would think that at thousands of times the RDA (which is probably a

conservative number)

it would be a poison. Keep in mind poisons don't necessarily kill right away.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:03 PM

At sufficient levels I suspect many if not most medicines can be

poisonous, as well as many ordinary substances. Drinking too much water

has killed people.

" Poison " has multiple levels of interpretation. I would not consider

iodine at normal levels a poison.

I would be strongly suspect of ANYONE who promotes the ingestion of

ANYTHING medical at thousands of times RDA without considerable support.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20pap\

er>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Mon Oct 5, 2009 4:21 pm (PDT)

>

> But you see, I'm not yet convinced that iodine is poison.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

------------------------------------

October 5, 2009

That's the point I was trying to make to you. Taking iodine under medical

supervision at a recommended dose might not be toxic for you, but taking it

unsupervised at a huge dose probably eventually would be toxic.

I have to stay away from things that were bad for my mother because I seem to

" take after her physically, and have learned from experience that I seem to have

inherited her sensitivities.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 5:14 PM

Hi Roni,

To keep repeating that your mother suffered a bad reaction to " iodine " is not

useful. I emailed you about this personally to get details so that I could

learn how iodine affected your mom and whether that story squared with what I'm

reading now. You were completely unable to give me anything because you said it

happened a long time ago.

You do not know how much she was given. You do not know if it as sodium iodide

or iodine or anything else. You do not know if she was being monitored through

blood tests or ultrasounds. You do not know if she complained to the doctor

about side effects early on. You do not know how long she was on it. You told

me yourself you " don't recall the particulars " .

Guess what, Roni. My grandfather was an alcoholic and chain smoker. He died

from it at age 65, and suffered horrendously for years. My mother became

alcoholic after falling into depression over a job loss when I was 11. She died

2 years later because of it. I could call alcohol poison, too, and avoid it for

life out of fear of what " it " did to someone else. But I still enjoy a nice

glass of wine or a beer occasionally. You can't let a bad reaction to something

scare you away for life just because other people abused it, or didn't use it

properly.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper

> > > >

> > > > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work

> > > on the

> > > > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the

> > > lion's

> > > > > share.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial

> > > relationship.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > >

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