That faulty iodine paper

October 4, 2009

I an allergic to those as well. I have cross sensitivities to iodine, betadine

and nuclear iodine as well as gadolinium.

From: Chuck B

Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:31 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Nancie Barnett wrote:

>

> No I don't. I understand it is a slightly different chemical composition

> that pure iodine as well as iodine supplements are more concentrated than an

> armour pill. I think chuck can explain it better than me.

The bound iodine in T4 and T3 is not free to react with proteins to form

antigens. Radio-contrast materials or Betadine are different, since they

can contribute free iodide. You should be cautious with those.

Chuck

October 4, 2009

Look all I am saying is that you have to concede that there are people who have

no clue that they are allergic to iodine because either they have never had to

take iodine before or they have developed an acquired reaction to it along the

way and they are unaware of it. So, the ethical and moral way to introduce

iodine to someone's system is to advise them to take a test does in a medical

provider's office to see if they has an undetected allergy. Abraham and the

others at optimax don't do that, AFAIK

.. that is unethical and malpractice and I am surprised that they have not gotten

sued by a victim of their protocol....

From: kenancy2000

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:54 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

" Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

followed their protocol I would be dead. "

As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

" BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from giving us

any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I always

thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest.... "

Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the pill

version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no pill version

of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most popular iodine

product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no reason to immediately

surmise evil of someone for developing a product that never existed before and

gives more accurate dosing, is there?

We don't need to think that just because someone is selling something, it means

they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for the buck. One could argue any

doctor is just in it for the money, as they are very well compensated for life,

yet I think most of us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to help

people, produce a fine service, or good product.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > >

> > > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > >

> > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi ,

> > > > >

> > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > Iodine

> > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> share.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> >

>

October 4, 2009

Chuck,

With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of not

being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know. Even Nature and JAMA

were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process. They let people who

own stock in companies whose products or articles are being reviewed sit on the

review board. A blatant conflict of interests.

Mike

>

> The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

>

> Chuck

>

October 4, 2009

Ken, you said: " ...One could argue any doctor is just in it for the

money, as they are very well compensated for life, yet I think most of

us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to help people, produce

a fine service, or good product. "

To which I will reply: No doubt correct. HOWEVER: Most of them WILL

NOT be promoting a medication or supplement at a level thousands of

times greater than the level needed by credible research and which they

conveniently happen to sell as is the case with Abraham. I guess that

doesn't matter to the gullible and foolish. If you want to fit into

some other classification then I suggest you peruse some of the credible

research on the subject of iodine.

..

Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@...

<mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

trishruk <trishruk>

Sun Oct 4, 2009 3:33 am (PDT)

Well said ...bravo Ken

Trish

>

> " Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> followed their protocol I would be dead. "

>

> As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

>

> " BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies

from giving us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips

or meals. I always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of

interest.... "

>

> Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

>

> Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the

pill version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no

pill version of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most

popular iodine product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no

reason to immediately surmise evil of someone for developing a product

that never existed before and gives more accurate dosing, is there?

>

> We don't need to think that just because someone is selling

something, it means they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for

the buck. One could argue any doctor is just in it for the money, as

they are very well compensated for life, yet I think most of us would

agree that many doctors genuinely want to help people, produce a fine

service, or good product.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

October 4, 2009

There are a number of studies in which people purposefully or

accidentally ingested large quantities of iodine, and many of them

without too much obvious harm if any at all. As a matter of fact I

think that if there were to be a major nuclear accident in the US with

radioactive fallout over wide areas that the general population would

probably be dosed with massive quantities of iodine. Possibly some of

them would be harmed or die from it; but the otherwise certain harm is

thought to be great enough to justify a few deaths.

I guess I should hasten to add that I am not totally confident of the

above facts so I would appreciate any correction needed.

Regards,

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20p\

aper>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 10:36 am (PDT)

>

> I took 50 mg/day of Lugal Iodine for a while before cutting back

> gradually. I now take 6.5 mg/day. At 50 mg/day, my TSH went for 2.1 to

> 1.572 BUT my low body temperature was unaffected. It turned out I had

> high normal RT3, something orthodox medicine doesn't see as a problem.

> I started taking T3 and the RT3 problem reversed and my body temperature

> went up. It's still on average too low but much improved.

>

> While insulin resistance is now becoming generally recognized as an

> issue, thyroid resistance is still considered an imaginary issue by

> orthodoxy.

>

> Steve

>

> Roni Molin wrote:

> > Years ago my internist told me to stay away from iodine because of

> the hypothyroid I have. I do that, and I have not seen any reason to

> change.

> >

> > Roni

October 4, 2009

Well, I don't know about your doctor. My doctor who put my on statins

is my cardiologist. And he explained very extensively that if I had any

unexplained muscle pains or any other symptoms I was to inform him

immediately, as some percentage of patients have reactions or side

effects from statins that can be harmful or fatal. He also very closely

monitors my other vitals, ordering blood work at intervals that to me

seem excessive. I also visit his office more often than I would like,

and he always questions me carefully. But I can appreciate that perhaps

he is just being careful.

And I already had arrhythmia; have had it all my life. No change with

statins that I noticed; but I'm on a calcium blocker to control it.

I am aware of the research that seems to indicate that statins do not

decrease mortality. I don't know how definitive they are, but at this

point I don't think they can be dismissed.

Regards,

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20p\

aper>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 10:48 am (PDT)

>

> kenancy2000 wrote:

>

> > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

> responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

>

> You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> doctor's insisted they go back on them.

>

> I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> of worry over heart health.

>

> One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug

> experience.

>

> So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> Americans to research.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html>

October 4, 2009

I've mentioned that book a few times. Most recently I mentioned it in

response to a post that suggested we need the opposite blood pH level

recommended by Dr. Jarvis.

..

>

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 11:22 am (PDT)

>

> ,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > As for Dr. Jarvis what I've read of his work did not express an

> > irrational fondness for massive doses of iodine IIRC....

>

> This is DeForest Clinton Jarvis, who died in 1966. His best selling 1958

> classic on folk medicine was first published in 1958. I believe it is

> still in print, since someone on this list recommended it not too long

> ago.

>

> He mainly pushed cider vinegar and an alkaline diet, along with avoiding

> sugar, flour, and processed foods, but he also recommended kelp and fish

> for their iodine content.

>

> Chuck

October 4, 2009

thanks james.

From:

Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:18 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Because their " prescriptions " could kill someone! Haven't you read what

posted for example??? If she had been foolish enough to order and

take 50 or 100 mg iodine at home she might well have died immediately.

Are you willing to support them or stand by while they kill or

some other very nice person???

AND: Because none of their " massive iodine " recommendations are

supported by any credible research;

AND: Because they publish " research " supporting their claims that

actually is not credible research at all;

AND: Because Abraham _owns_ Optimox; so if it makes any money he

certainly profits;

AND: Because I remain unconvinced that they do not have the resources

and skills to perform at least some small _credible_ study to support

their contentions if they are valid;

AND: Because all of the credible research [literally tons of it]

contradict their claims.

For starters.

Perhaps most of all because I just have a visceral disgust for those who

willingly prey upon the gullibility of sick people who are often poor,

desperate and ill informed in order to enrich themselves. They are not

just " selling a supplement " ; they are recommending several thousand

times the RDA of iodine; recommendations that are contradicted by

utterly massive research.

If you have information that any other doctors are prescribing a product

at a level thousands of times higher than has been established by

credible research then you might have a point.

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

> Sat Oct 3, 2009 2:11 pm (PDT)

>

> Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> legal or financial arrangement.

>

> I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> speculating so far.

>

> Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that

> for years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These

> same doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> Abraham etc such a hard time for selling a supplment?

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

> >

> > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> others]

> > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> >

> > .

October 4, 2009

Well, you know what, ? I just took 10 grams of Vitamin C and also 100 mg

of most of the B vitamins. Guess what...I didn't die! not only that, but my

oncoming cold was VERY wimpy because of it. Today, I have NO symptoms of the

cold anymore.

, you have to remember that the RDA is a generic recommendation for a large

population that is designed to prevent severe disease in most people who ingest

the RDA. In the case of Vitamin C for instance, all 100mg is going to do is

help prevent scurvy. The RDA for Iodine is only designed to prevent goiter.

For most people.

says she was about " to die. " How do we know that she actually had a

definitely life-threatening reaction to it? The term " about to die " is often

just used as hyperbole. Maybe she could have. But we really don't know. I'm

not saying people out there don't have serious reactions to things, all I'm

saying is that a severe life threatening reactions to most vitamins and minerals

is pretty rare. A girl in Canada died a year or two ago just from kissing a boy

who had peanut butter residue on his lips. Are we supposed to severely restrict

peanut butter because ONE person we heard about in the news died?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > others]

> > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > >

> > > .

>

October 4, 2009

" As a matter of fact it was so bogus that eventually Abraham recanted his

recommendations after experiments he performed or evaluating experiments

performed by others. "

" Now much more credibility is assigned to the urine iodine loading test by those

somewhat knowledgable on the matters; "

Well, now, you can see that Abraham is not just sitting on his hands, then.

Progress is being made, and by your own admission, the newer test has much more

credibility.

That's good!

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> > > followed their protocol I would be dead.

> > > BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies

> > from giving

> > > us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I

> > > always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest....

> > >

> > > -- Re: That faulty iodine paper

> > >

> > > Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> > > getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> > legal or

> > > financial arrangement.

> > >

> > > I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> > > speculating so far.

> > >

> > > Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that for

> > > years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These same

> > > doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> > Abraham etc

> > > such a hard time for selling a supplment?

> > >

> > > -Ken Bagwell

>

October 4, 2009

Oh Steve, foo foo on you. There's " no credible research to prove " anything you

are talking about. Why don't you just be quiet and stop talking all that

" non-sense " ?

Wink, Wink.

-Ken Bagwell

> >>>

> >>> Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> >>> implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> >>> would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

> >> now.

> >> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

> >> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

> >> list. I believe is still here.

> >>

> >> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

> >> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

> >> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

> >> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

> >>

> >> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

> >>

> >> Chuck

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

October 4, 2009

Hi Steve,

Well, I guess my point is saying that, was that if people are under the care of

a physician (as I understand Abraham and other Iodine docs HAVE suggested up

front, and common sense should too), then when one runs into a problem with the

iodine dose, instead of running to an online forum and complaining that one had

a bad reaction to iodine, maybe one should consider that something about one's

therapy has not been considered.

Maybe they didn't take the recommended selenium and magnesium. Maybe they need

to cut the dosage level. Maybe they need can't be on iodine treatment because

they are allergic. Maybe the issue is transient anyway. Maybe they need to cut

back on thyroid hormones, or increase. Who knows what else!?

Take what I say with a grain of salt of course, as I say this in ignorance of

actually having been on the treatment myself. I am still researching. But what

I've read so far, these are some possibilities.

-Ken Bagwell

>

> > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?