That faulty iodine paper

[Guest guest]

Ken,

You wrote:

>

> Do you know when the message was posted or the title of the post? I

> tried looking it up through a search of the forum " optimox financials "

> but didn't see anything.

While Flechas and Browstein variously describe their work with Abraham

as a " partnership, " I don't think this means a legal or financial

arrangement. They worked together to develop the loading test, but I

don't see how they divide any profit from labs offering the test.

Instead, they sell or prescribe only Optimox iodine products. That

suggests that they at least get a volume discount in a symbiotic

arrangement.

On their Orthoiodosupplementation web page, they list fellow clinicians

that use iodine in their practices, " Hulda , Edgar Cayce, Max

Gerson, Howenstine, D.C. Jarvis, Schachter, Sherri

Tenpenny, , Bruce West, and . " Besides the

fact that many of these clinicians are neither doctors nor alive, this

particular collection is quite telling.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and others]

are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Thu Oct 1, 2009 5:18 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Do you know when the message was posted or the title of the post? I

> tried looking it up through a search of the forum " optimox financials "

> but didn't see anything.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

> >

> > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> >

> >

> > .

> > .

> >

> > >

> > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

> > >

> <mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> <kenancy2000>>

> > >

> > >

> > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> Iodine

> > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's share.

> > >

> > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > >

> > > -Ken Bagwell

[Guest guest]

Yep I am still here.

Although I didn't use his protocol. I just wanted to see if I could take

iodine as a supplement to my armour treatment. So, I had my test dose at my

Natural Medicine MD's office and had an anaphylactic reaction and almost

died in her office. Thank god, I didn't try it at home. I had no idea that I

was allergic to iodine since I could always eat shellfish and never had a

problem. obviously in my case it was an acquired reaction that I developed

at some point in my life. I also have a cross sensitivity to Betadine.

It can happen.

-- Re: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Ken,

You wrote:

>

>

> Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

now.

>

The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

list. I believe is still here.

The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

just that reason. The latest one was last year:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only getting

money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a legal or financial

arrangement.

I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just speculating

so far.

Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that for years

from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These same doctors most

of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving Abraham etc such a hard

time for selling a supplment?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > > .

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > >

> > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > <kenancy2000>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi ,

> > > >

> > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > Iodine

> > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's share.

> > > >

> > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > >

> > > > -Ken Bagwell

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Chuck. At least they can be sure the dead ones aren't going to

object to being associated with them! [gggg]. And of the others at

least one is such a low bottom feeder in the cesspool of medical

quackery that he/she will not be damaged by such association.

As for Dr. Jarvis what I've read of his work did not express an

irrational fondness for massive doses of iodine IIRC. But on the other

hand it's been a long time; and besides I'm sure I didn't read all of

his publications.

The false claims of dead people using Optimox products remind me of why

I'm suspicious of so many political claims: The proponents support them

with spin and lies, which causes me to suspect they cannot support them

with truth and facts.

Regards,

..

..

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

>

> Fri Oct 2, 2009 4:18 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Ken,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > Do you know when the message was posted or the title of the post? I

> > tried looking it up through a search of the forum " optimox financials "

> > but didn't see anything.

>

> While Flechas and Browstein variously describe their work with Abraham

> as a " partnership,

> " I don't think this means a legal or financial

> arrangement. They worked together to develop the loading test, but I

> don't see how they divide any profit from labs offering the test.

> Instead, they sell or prescribe only Optimox iodine products. That

> suggests that they at least get a volume discount in a symbiotic

> arrangement.

>

> On their Orthoiodosupplementation web page, they list fellow clinicians

> that use iodine in their practices, " Hulda , Edgar Cayce, Max

> Gerson, Howenstine, D.C. Jarvis, Schachter, Sherri

> Tenpenny, , Bruce West, and . " Besides the

> fact that many of these clinicians are neither doctors nor alive, this

> particular collection is quite telling.

>

> Chuck

[Guest guest]

There is ample evidence that it can and does happen. The sad fact that

if you went on some of the " iodine " lists and posted exactly what you

have here then you would find yourself under a massive abusive and

virulent attack for blasphemy against the religious " TRUTH " of the

iodine proponents. Dissent and facts to the contrary of their faith

cannot be allowed to exist.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>

<mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:49 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Yep I am still here.

> Although I didn't use his protocol. I just wanted to see if I could take

> iodine as a supplement to my armour treatment. So, I had my test dose

> at my

> Natural Medicine MD's office and had an anaphylactic reaction and almost

> died in her office. Thank god, I didn't try it at home. I had no idea

> that I

> was allergic to iodine since I could always eat shellfish and never had a

> problem. obviously in my case it was an acquired reaction that I developed

> at some point in my life. I also have a cross sensitivity to Betadine.

> It can happen.

[Guest guest]

My apologies; it appears I probably somewhat misquoted you.

..

..

>

>

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

>

> Fri Oct 2, 2009 4:18 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Ken,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > Do you know when the message was posted or the title of the post? I

> > tried looking it up through a search of the forum " optimox financials "

> > but didn't see anything.

>

> While Flechas and Browstein variously describe their work with Abraham

> as a " partnership,

> " I don't think this means a legal or financial

> arrangement. They worked together to develop the loading test, but I

> don't see how they divide any profit from labs offering the test.

> Instead, they sell or prescribe only Optimox iodine products. That

> suggests that they at least get a volume discount in a symbiotic

> arrangement.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

 

Do you react to thyroid medication? I know there are iodine molecules in there.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 2:55 PM

There is ample evidence that it can and does happen.  The sad fact that

if you went on some of the " iodine " lists and posted exactly what you

have here then you would find yourself under a massive abusive and

virulent attack for blasphemy against the religious " TRUTH " of the

iodine proponents.  Dissent and facts to the contrary of their faith

cannot be allowed to exist.

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

>   

   <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

>         aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

>         Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:49 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Yep I am still here.

> Although I didn't use his protocol. I just wanted to see if I could take

> iodine as a supplement to my armour treatment. So, I had my test dose

> at my

> Natural Medicine MD's office and had an anaphylactic reaction and almost

> died in her office. Thank god, I didn't try it at home. I had no idea

> that I

> was allergic to iodine since I could always eat shellfish and never had a

> problem. obviously in my case it was an acquired reaction that I developed

> at some point in my life. I also have a cross sensitivity to Betadine.

> It can happen.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

No I don't. I understand it is a slightly different chemical composition

that pure iodine as well as iodine supplements are more concentrated than an

armour pill. I think chuck can explain it better than me.

-- Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 2:55 PM

There is ample evidence that it can and does happen. The sad fact that

if you went on some of the " iodine " lists and posted exactly what you

have here then you would find yourself under a massive abusive and

virulent attack for blasphemy against the religious " TRUTH " of the

iodine proponents. Dissent and facts to the contrary of their faith

cannot be allowed to exist.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

> <mailto:deifspirit@msn

com?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:49 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Yep I am still here.

> Although I didn't use his protocol. I just wanted to see if I could take

> iodine as a supplement to my armour treatment. So, I had my test dose

> at my

> Natural Medicine MD's office and had an anaphylactic reaction and almost

> died in her office. Thank god, I didn't try it at home. I had no idea

> that I

> was allergic to iodine since I could always eat shellfish and never had a

> problem. obviously in my case it was an acquired reaction that I developed

> at some point in my life. I also have a cross sensitivity to Betadine.

> It can happen.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

followed their protocol I would be dead.

BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from giving

us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I

always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest....

-- Re: That faulty iodine paper

Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a legal or

financial arrangement.

I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

speculating so far.

Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that for

years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These same

doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving Abraham etc

such a hard time for selling a supplment?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > > .

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > >

> > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > <kenancy2000>>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi ,

> > > >

> > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > Iodine

> > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

share.

> > > >

> > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > >

> > > > -Ken Bagwell

>

[Guest guest]

very true indeed, james

From:

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 2:55 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

There is ample evidence that it can and does happen. The sad fact that

if you went on some of the " iodine " lists and posted exactly what you

have here then you would find yourself under a massive abusive and

virulent attack for blasphemy against the religious " TRUTH " of the

iodine proponents. Dissent and facts to the contrary of their faith

cannot be allowed to exist.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Nancie Barnett " deifspirit@...

> <mailto:deifspirit@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> aspenfairy1 <aspenfairy1>

>

>

> Fri Oct 2, 2009 9:49 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Yep I am still here.

> Although I didn't use his protocol. I just wanted to see if I could take

> iodine as a supplement to my armour treatment. So, I had my test dose

> at my

> Natural Medicine MD's office and had an anaphylactic reaction and almost

> died in her office. Thank god, I didn't try it at home. I had no idea

> that I

> was allergic to iodine since I could always eat shellfish and never had a

> problem. obviously in my case it was an acquired reaction that I developed

> at some point in my life. I also have a cross sensitivity to Betadine.

> It can happen.

[Guest guest]

" Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

followed their protocol I would be dead. "

As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

" BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from giving us

any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I always

thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest.... "

Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the pill

version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no pill

version of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most popular

iodine product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no reason to

immediately surmise evil of someone for developing a product that never existed

before and gives more accurate dosing, is there?

We don't need to think that just because someone is selling something, it means

they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for the buck. One could argue any

doctor is just in it for the money, as they are very well compensated for life,

yet I think most of us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to help

people, produce a fine service, or good product.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > >

> > > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi ,

> > > > >

> > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > Iodine

> > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> share.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abraham, Fletches, and others say that the protocol should be done under medical

supervision. I emailed Abraham once about a question, and he told me, a

stranger he never heard from before, right away to only proceed with any

potential treatment under medical supervision.

No doubt some people try iodine without supervision, but whose problem is that?

You did the right thing by being close to medical care on a test dose.

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> >

> > Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> > implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> > would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

> now.

> >

>

> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

> list. I believe is still here.

>

> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

>

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Years ago my internist told me to stay away from iodine because of the

hypothyroid I have. I do that, and I have not seen any reason to change.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 8:08 PM

Abraham, Fletches, and others say that the protocol should be done under medical

supervision.  I emailed Abraham once about a question, and he told me, a

stranger he never heard from before, right away to only proceed with any

potential treatment under medical supervision.

No doubt some people try iodine without supervision, but whose problem is that?

You did the right thing by being close to medical care on a test dose.

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> >

> > Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> > implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> > would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

> now.

> >

>

> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

> list. I believe is still here.

>

> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

>

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

>

> Chuck

>

>

> 

>

>

[Guest guest]

" The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

list. "

Were these people actually under the care of one of the iodine docs, like

Abraham, etc? Or were they just experimenting on themselves?

If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

If they aren't reporting it, how does anyone know if these autoimmune issues

even happened to the person in the first place? " Because they posted on this

list! " Wait, I thought we weren't supposed to believe everything we read in

" webland " ?

Not trying to sound snotty, just asking.

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> >

> > Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> > implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> > would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by now.

> >

>

> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

> list. I believe is still here.

>

> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

>

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Well said ...bravo Ken

Trish

>

> " Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> followed their protocol I would be dead. "

>

> As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

>

> " BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from giving

us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I always

thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest.... "

>

> Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

>

> Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the pill

version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no pill

version of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most popular

iodine product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no reason to

immediately surmise evil of someone for developing a product that never existed

before and gives more accurate dosing, is there?

>

> We don't need to think that just because someone is selling something, it

means they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for the buck. One could

argue any doctor is just in it for the money, as they are very well compensated

for life, yet I think most of us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to

help people, produce a fine service, or good product.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

[Guest guest]

Because their " prescriptions " could kill someone! Haven't you read what

posted for example??? If she had been foolish enough to order and

take 50 or 100 mg iodine at home she might well have died immediately.

Are you willing to support them or stand by while they kill or

some other very nice person???

AND: Because none of their " massive iodine " recommendations are

supported by any credible research;

AND: Because they publish " research " supporting their claims that

actually is not credible research at all;

AND: Because Abraham _owns_ Optimox; so if it makes any money he

certainly profits;

AND: Because I remain unconvinced that they do not have the resources

and skills to perform at least some small _credible_ study to support

their contentions if they are valid;

AND: Because all of the credible research [literally tons of it]

contradict their claims.

For starters.

Perhaps most of all because I just have a visceral disgust for those who

willingly prey upon the gullibility of sick people who are often poor,

desperate and ill informed in order to enrich themselves. They are not

just " selling a supplement " ; they are recommending several thousand

times the RDA of iodine; recommendations that are contradicted by

utterly massive research.

If you have information that any other doctors are prescribing a product

at a level thousands of times higher than has been established by

credible research then you might have a point.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Sat Oct 3, 2009 2:11 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> legal or financial arrangement.

>

> I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> speculating so far.

>

> Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that

> for years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These

> same doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> Abraham etc such a hard time for selling a supplment?

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

> >

> > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> others]

> > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> >

> >

> > .

> > .

[Guest guest]

How the h*ll can you say " ...It remains to be seen... " ??? is a

medical practitioner; she treats patients, writes prescriptions & etc.

Do you think she does not have the intelligence and education to

evaluate her own reaction??? Especially when such reactions [although

not all that common] are well docummented in the medical literature???

I don't have any problem with any doctor developing a pill that is more

convenient than present methods, although there is some small potential

for conflicts when he/she sells the product. But it would not normally

be of concern to me. It does become a concern when the doctor selling

the product starts recommending it at thousands of times RDA; with no

credible research, and contrary to all the credible research that exists.

An example: The iodine docs used to promote the iodine skin patch test

as " proof " that patients needed more iodine. The idea, utterly

unsupported by any evidence, was that if iodine were applied to the skin

and the body needed iodine it would absorb it; if the body had

sufficient iodine the iodine would remain on the skin. The problem was

that with this test everybody showed that they needed to supplement with

iodine; because numerous factors resulted in typically 88% of the iodine

would evaporate. Further, the evaporation rate is dependent upon

factors such as temperature, humidity, pressure and God only know what

else. So the test was totally bogus. As a matter of fact it was so

bogus that eventually Abraham recanted his recommendations after

experiments he performed or evaluating experiments performed by others.

Here is a link to that report:

..

..

> <http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/updates/UNIOD-02/UNIOD_02.htm>

..

..

But you will _still_ find quacks or foolish, gullible people supporting

the iodine skin patch test as " proof " that you need iodine.

Now much more credibility is assigned to the urine iodine loading test

by those somewhat knowledgable on the matters; but it also has

credibility problems that have not been addressed AFAIK.

..

..

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Sat Oct 3, 2009 7:55 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> " Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> followed their protocol I would be dead. "

>

> As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

>

> " BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from

> giving us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or

> meals. I always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of

> interest....

> "

>

> Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

>

> Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the

> pill version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was

> no pill version of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the

> most popular iodine product. I can understand his reasoning. There's

> no reason to immediately surmise evil of someone for developing a

> product that never existed before and gives more accurate dosing, is

> there?

>

> We don't need to think that just because someone is selling something,

> it means they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for the buck.

> One could argue any doctor is just in it for the money, as they are

> very well compensated for life, yet I think most of us would agree

> that many doctors genuinely want to help people, produce a fine

> service, or good product.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

> >

> > Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> > followed their protocol I would be dead.

> > BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies

> from giving

> > us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I

> > always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest....

> >

> > -- Re: That faulty iodine paper

> >

> > Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> > getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> legal or

> > financial arrangement.

> >

> > I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> > speculating so far.

> >

> > Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that for

> > years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These same

> > doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> Abraham etc

> > such a hard time for selling a supplment?

> >

> > -Ken Bagwell

[Guest guest]

I took 50 mg/day of Lugal Iodine for a while before cutting back

gradually. I now take 6.5 mg/day. At 50 mg/day, my TSH went for 2.1 to

1.572 BUT my low body temperature was unaffected. It turned out I had

high normal RT3, something orthodox medicine doesn't see as a problem.

I started taking T3 and the RT3 problem reversed and my body temperature

went up. It's still on average too low but much improved.

While insulin resistance is now becoming generally recognized as an

issue, thyroid resistance is still considered an imaginary issue by

orthodoxy.

Steve

Roni Molin wrote:

> Years ago my internist told me to stay away from iodine because of the

hypothyroid I have. I do that, and I have not seen any reason to change.

>

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

>

> From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

> Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 8:08 PM

>

>

> Abraham, Fletches, and others say that the protocol should be done under

medical supervision. I emailed Abraham once about a question, and he told me, a

stranger he never heard from before, right away to only proceed with any

potential treatment under medical supervision.

>

> No doubt some people try iodine without supervision, but whose problem is

that?

>

> You did the right thing by being close to medical care on a test dose.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

>>>

>>> Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

>>> implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

>>> would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

>> now.

>> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

>> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

>> list. I believe is still here.

>>

>> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

>> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

>> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

>> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

>>

>> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

>>

>> Chuck

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

kenancy2000 wrote:

> If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

" aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

doctor's insisted they go back on them.

I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

of worry over heart health.

One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug experience.

So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

information removed, should be a database that is available to all

Americans to research.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> As for Dr. Jarvis what I've read of his work did not express an

> irrational fondness for massive doses of iodine IIRC....

This is DeForest Clinton Jarvis, who died in 1966. His best selling 1958

classic on folk medicine was first published in 1958. I believe it is

still in print, since someone on this list recommended it not too long ago.

He mainly pushed cider vinegar and an alkaline diet, along with avoiding

sugar, flour, and processed foods, but he also recommended kelp and fish

for their iodine content.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

>

> My apologies; it appears I probably somewhat misquoted you.

No problem. The fact that the only papers published by the three of them

are together in the Original Internist suggests something more than a

casual acquaintance between them. In one of those papers, Abraham says

that Optimox funded the development and testing of the Iodine Loading

test. Since Flechas and Brownstein were advertised as partners in that

development, along with a compounding pharmacist named Hakala, another

common co-author, this suggests that at least for that project, they

were all paid by Optimox.

The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

>

>

> No I don't. I understand it is a slightly different chemical composition

> that pure iodine as well as iodine supplements are more concentrated than an

> armour pill. I think chuck can explain it better than me.

The bound iodine in T4 and T3 is not free to react with proteins to form

antigens. Radio-contrast materials or Betadine are different, since they

can contribute free iodide. You should be cautious with those.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

You are soooo right. Not only doesn't main stream medicine acknowledge problems

from RT3, they are able to stick to this ridiculous notion by not testing for

the RT3 in the first

place, thereby preventing their eyes from looking at the truth entirely.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

>

> From: kenancy2000 <kenancy2000@...>

> Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 8:08 PM

>

>

> Abraham, Fletches, and others say that the protocol should be done under

medical supervision.  I emailed Abraham once about a question, and he told me, a

stranger he never heard from before, right away to only proceed with any

potential treatment under medical supervision.

>

> No doubt some people try iodine without supervision, but whose problem is

that?

>

> You did the right thing by being close to medical care on a test dose.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

>>>

>>> Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

>>> implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

>>> would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

>> now.

>> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

>> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

>> list. I believe is still here.

>>

>> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

>> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

>> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

>> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

>>

>> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

>>

>> Chuck

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Ken,

You wrote:

>

> Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the

> pill version was because one could accurately dose with it....

That was really a minor stability issue. Iodine slowly evaporates from

Lugol's, so you have to make small batches to preserve the iodine/iodide

proportion. However, Lugol's can be quite accurately dosed, especially

in the more dilute forms. Lots of doctors still use Lugol's, although

rarely at the doses recommended by the Optimox doctors.

Chuck