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I an allergic to those as well. I have cross sensitivities to iodine, betadine

and nuclear iodine as well as gadolinium.

From: Chuck B

Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 11:31 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Nancie Barnett wrote:

>

>

> No I don't. I understand it is a slightly different chemical composition

> that pure iodine as well as iodine supplements are more concentrated than an

> armour pill. I think chuck can explain it better than me.

The bound iodine in T4 and T3 is not free to react with proteins to form

antigens. Radio-contrast materials or Betadine are different, since they

can contribute free iodide. You should be cautious with those.

Chuck

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Look all I am saying is that you have to concede that there are people who have

no clue that they are allergic to iodine because either they have never had to

take iodine before or they have developed an acquired reaction to it along the

way and they are unaware of it. So, the ethical and moral way to introduce

iodine to someone's system is to advise them to take a test does in a medical

provider's office to see if they has an undetected allergy. Abraham and the

others at optimax don't do that, AFAIK

.. that is unethical and malpractice and I am surprised that they have not gotten

sued by a victim of their protocol....

From: kenancy2000

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 7:54 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

" Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

followed their protocol I would be dead. "

As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

" BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies from giving us

any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I always

thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest.... "

Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the pill

version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no pill version

of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most popular iodine

product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no reason to immediately

surmise evil of someone for developing a product that never existed before and

gives more accurate dosing, is there?

We don't need to think that just because someone is selling something, it means

they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for the buck. One could argue any

doctor is just in it for the money, as they are very well compensated for life,

yet I think most of us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to help

people, produce a fine service, or good product.

-Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > >

> > > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi ,

> > > > >

> > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > Iodine

> > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> share.

> > > > >

> > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Chuck,

With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of not

being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know. Even Nature and JAMA

were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process. They let people who

own stock in companies whose products or articles are being reviewed sit on the

review board. A blatant conflict of interests.

Mike

>

> The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

>

> Chuck

>

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Ken, you said: " ...One could argue any doctor is just in it for the

money, as they are very well compensated for life, yet I think most of

us would agree that many doctors genuinely want to help people, produce

a fine service, or good product. "

To which I will reply: No doubt correct. HOWEVER: Most of them WILL

NOT be promoting a medication or supplement at a level thousands of

times greater than the level needed by credible research and which they

conveniently happen to sell as is the case with Abraham. I guess that

doesn't matter to the gullible and foolish. If you want to fit into

some other classification then I suggest you peruse some of the credible

research on the subject of iodine.

..

..

Posted by: " Trish " fielddot@...

<mailto:fielddot@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

trishruk <trishruk>

Sun Oct 4, 2009 3:33 am (PDT)

Well said ...bravo Ken :)

Trish

>

> " Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> followed their protocol I would be dead. "

>

> As far as I'm concerned, that remains to be seen.

>

> " BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies

from giving us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips

or meals. I always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of

interest.... "

>

> Sure. NOW they do! How long has that been going on, though?

>

> Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the

pill version was because one could accurately dose with it. There was no

pill version of Lugol's solution before, and Lugol's was always the most

popular iodine product. I can understand his reasoning. There's no

reason to immediately surmise evil of someone for developing a product

that never existed before and gives more accurate dosing, is there?

>

> We don't need to think that just because someone is selling

something, it means they are trying to do harm, or are just in it for

the buck. One could argue any doctor is just in it for the money, as

they are very well compensated for life, yet I think most of us would

agree that many doctors genuinely want to help people, produce a fine

service, or good product.

>

> -Ken Bagwell

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There are a number of studies in which people purposefully or

accidentally ingested large quantities of iodine, and many of them

without too much obvious harm if any at all. As a matter of fact I

think that if there were to be a major nuclear accident in the US with

radioactive fallout over wide areas that the general population would

probably be dosed with massive quantities of iodine. Possibly some of

them would be harmed or die from it; but the otherwise certain harm is

thought to be great enough to justify a few deaths.

I guess I should hasten to add that I am not totally confident of the

above facts so I would appreciate any correction needed.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20p\

aper>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 10:36 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> I took 50 mg/day of Lugal Iodine for a while before cutting back

> gradually. I now take 6.5 mg/day. At 50 mg/day, my TSH went for 2.1 to

> 1.572 BUT my low body temperature was unaffected. It turned out I had

> high normal RT3, something orthodox medicine doesn't see as a problem.

> I started taking T3 and the RT3 problem reversed and my body temperature

> went up. It's still on average too low but much improved.

>

> While insulin resistance is now becoming generally recognized as an

> issue, thyroid resistance is still considered an imaginary issue by

> orthodoxy.

>

> Steve

>

> Roni Molin wrote:

> > Years ago my internist told me to stay away from iodine because of

> the hypothyroid I have. I do that, and I have not seen any reason to

> change.

> >

> >

> > Roni

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Well, I don't know about your doctor. My doctor who put my on statins

is my cardiologist. And he explained very extensively that if I had any

unexplained muscle pains or any other symptoms I was to inform him

immediately, as some percentage of patients have reactions or side

effects from statins that can be harmful or fatal. He also very closely

monitors my other vitals, ordering blood work at intervals that to me

seem excessive. I also visit his office more often than I would like,

and he always questions me carefully. But I can appreciate that perhaps

he is just being careful.

And I already had arrhythmia; have had it all my life. No change with

statins that I noticed; but I'm on a calcium blocker to control it.

I am aware of the research that seems to indicate that statins do not

decrease mortality. I don't know how definitive they are, but at this

point I don't think they can be dismissed.

Regards,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Steve " dudescholar4@...

>

<mailto:dudescholar4@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20p\

aper>

> dudescholar <dudescholar>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 10:48 am (PDT)

>

>

>

>

>

> kenancy2000 wrote:

>

> > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

> responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

>

> You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> doctor's insisted they go back on them.

>

> I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> of worry over heart health.

>

> One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug

> experience.

>

> So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> Americans to research.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html>

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I've mentioned that book a few times. Most recently I mentioned it in

response to a post that suggested we need the opposite blood pH level

recommended by Dr. Jarvis.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " Chuck B " gumboyaya@...

>

<mailto:gumboyaya@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> gumbo482001 <gumbo482001>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 11:22 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> ,

>

> You wrote:

> >

> > As for Dr. Jarvis what I've read of his work did not express an

> > irrational fondness for massive doses of iodine IIRC....

>

> This is DeForest Clinton Jarvis, who died in 1966. His best selling 1958

> classic on folk medicine was first published in 1958. I believe it is

> still in print, since someone on this list recommended it not too long

> ago.

>

> He mainly pushed cider vinegar and an alkaline diet, along with avoiding

> sugar, flour, and processed foods, but he also recommended kelp and fish

> for their iodine content.

>

> Chuck

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thanks james.

From:

Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:18 AM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: That faulty iodine paper

Because their " prescriptions " could kill someone! Haven't you read what

posted for example??? If she had been foolish enough to order and

take 50 or 100 mg iodine at home she might well have died immediately.

Are you willing to support them or stand by while they kill or

some other very nice person???

AND: Because none of their " massive iodine " recommendations are

supported by any credible research;

AND: Because they publish " research " supporting their claims that

actually is not credible research at all;

AND: Because Abraham _owns_ Optimox; so if it makes any money he

certainly profits;

AND: Because I remain unconvinced that they do not have the resources

and skills to perform at least some small _credible_ study to support

their contentions if they are valid;

AND: Because all of the credible research [literally tons of it]

contradict their claims.

For starters.

Perhaps most of all because I just have a visceral disgust for those who

willingly prey upon the gullibility of sick people who are often poor,

desperate and ill informed in order to enrich themselves. They are not

just " selling a supplement " ; they are recommending several thousand

times the RDA of iodine; recommendations that are contradicted by

utterly massive research.

If you have information that any other doctors are prescribing a product

at a level thousands of times higher than has been established by

credible research then you might have a point.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Sat Oct 3, 2009 2:11 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> legal or financial arrangement.

>

> I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> speculating so far.

>

> Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that

> for years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These

> same doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> Abraham etc such a hard time for selling a supplment?

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

> >

> > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> others]

> > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> >

> >

> > .

> > .

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Well, you know what, ? I just took 10 grams of Vitamin C and also 100 mg

of most of the B vitamins. Guess what...I didn't die! not only that, but my

oncoming cold was VERY wimpy because of it. Today, I have NO symptoms of the

cold anymore.

, you have to remember that the RDA is a generic recommendation for a large

population that is designed to prevent severe disease in most people who ingest

the RDA. In the case of Vitamin C for instance, all 100mg is going to do is

help prevent scurvy. The RDA for Iodine is only designed to prevent goiter.

For most people.

says she was about " to die. " How do we know that she actually had a

definitely life-threatening reaction to it? The term " about to die " is often

just used as hyperbole. Maybe she could have. But we really don't know. I'm

not saying people out there don't have serious reactions to things, all I'm

saying is that a severe life threatening reactions to most vitamins and minerals

is pretty rare. A girl in Canada died a year or two ago just from kissing a boy

who had peanut butter residue on his lips. Are we supposed to severely restrict

peanut butter because ONE person we heard about in the news died?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > others]

> > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > > .

>

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" As a matter of fact it was so bogus that eventually Abraham recanted his

recommendations after experiments he performed or evaluating experiments

performed by others. "

" Now much more credibility is assigned to the urine iodine loading test by those

somewhat knowledgable on the matters; "

Well, now, you can see that Abraham is not just sitting on his hands, then.

Progress is being made, and by your own admission, the newer test has much more

credibility.

That's good!

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > Because it can KILL you in the amounts that they recommend. If I had

> > > followed their protocol I would be dead.

> > > BTW, there are new regulations that prohibit insurance companies

> > from giving

> > > us any freebies anymore. No more free pens of pads or trips or meals. I

> > > always thought accepting those freebies were a conflict of interest....

> > >

> > > -- Re: That faulty iodine paper

> > >

> > > Well, chuck just said in a few posts above that they probably are only

> > > getting money from Iodoral and that their probably isn't really a

> > legal or

> > > financial arrangement.

> > >

> > > I don't think Chuck knows as much as you are letting on. We're just

> > > speculating so far.

> > >

> > > Hey, doctors have been getting paid vacations and gift and all that for

> > > years from drug comnapnies and no one complains about that. These same

> > > doctors most of them, still enjoy a good rep. Why are you giving

> > Abraham etc

> > > such a hard time for selling a supplment?

> > >

> > > -Ken Bagwell

>

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Oh Steve, foo foo on you. There's " no credible research to prove " anything you

are talking about. Why don't you just be quiet and stop talking all that

" non-sense " ?

Wink, Wink.

-Ken Bagwell

> >>>

> >>> Abraham and others have been studying this for about 10 years now, and

> >>> implementing this into their practice for maybe 5 years or longer. I

> >>> would expect some real autoimmune issues to have shown up in someone by

> >> now.

> >> The people that have bad reactions to Optimox treatments don't stick

> >> around to give Abraham feedback. We have had some of them post on this

> >> list. I believe is still here.

> >>

> >> The fact that iodine doses greater than about 3 mg per day trigger or

> >> aggravate Hashimoto's is rather well documented in the literature.

> >> Health Canada has issued several strong warnings about kelp products for

> >> just that reason. The latest one was last year:

> >>

> >> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/advisories-avis/_2008/2008_77-eng.php

> >>

> >> Chuck

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

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Hi Steve,

Well, I guess my point is saying that, was that if people are under the care of

a physician (as I understand Abraham and other Iodine docs HAVE suggested up

front, and common sense should too), then when one runs into a problem with the

iodine dose, instead of running to an online forum and complaining that one had

a bad reaction to iodine, maybe one should consider that something about one's

therapy has not been considered.

Maybe they didn't take the recommended selenium and magnesium. Maybe they need

to cut the dosage level. Maybe they need can't be on iodine treatment because

they are allergic. Maybe the issue is transient anyway. Maybe they need to cut

back on thyroid hormones, or increase. Who knows what else!?

Take what I say with a grain of salt of course, as I say this in ignorance of

actually having been on the treatment myself. I am still researching. But what

I've read so far, these are some possibilities.

-Ken Bagwell

>

> > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

>

> You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> doctor's insisted they go back on them.

>

> I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> of worry over heart health.

>

> One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug experience.

>

> So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> Americans to research.

>

> --

>

> Steve - dudescholar4@...

>

> " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

>

> " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

>

> Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

>

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Hi Chuck,

" The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties. "

Somehow, that's just not a very compelling argument, Chuck. Just look at the

infamous SSRIs!

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_evelyn_p_060425_drip_drip_drip___pax.htm

" Secrecy agreements in litigation hide information about defective products or a

company's negligence, and sometimes go so far as to prohibit the parties from

discussing that there ever was a lawsuit. Such is the case with Paxil and as a

result, unwitting patients continued to take the drug long after its dangers

were known to GlaxoKline.

Many lawsuits filed against Glaxo have been settled out of court, with

confidential agreements that prevent the public from knowing about the harmful

effects of the Paxil.

Previously sealed documents and internal company memos suppressed with

protective orders, prove that Glaxo knew about the problems with Paxil before it

received FDA approval, but continued to sell the drug for over a decade without

warning consumers. "

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> >

> > My apologies; it appears I probably somewhat misquoted you.

>

> No problem. The fact that the only papers published by the three of them

> are together in the Original Internist suggests something more than a

> casual acquaintance between them. In one of those papers, Abraham says

> that Optimox funded the development and testing of the Iodine Loading

> test. Since Flechas and Brownstein were advertised as partners in that

> development, along with a compounding pharmacist named Hakala, another

> common co-author, this suggests that at least for that project, they

> were all paid by Optimox.

>

> The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

>

> Chuck

>

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I understand he also wanted to make something that was more palatable. The pill

version has a pharmaceutical glaze over the core of the tablet, so that the

horrible taste issue is nullified.

This was actually a rather good development, if you ask me.

-Ken Bagwell

> >

> > Let's keep in mind that the main reason Abraham says he developed the

> > pill version was because one could accurately dose with it....

>

> That was really a minor stability issue. Iodine slowly evaporates from

> Lugol's, so you have to make small batches to preserve the iodine/iodide

> proportion. However, Lugol's can be quite accurately dosed, especially

> in the more dilute forms. Lots of doctors still use Lugol's, although

> rarely at the doses recommended by the Optimox doctors.

>

> Chuck

>

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Excuse me, . In all the materials I have thus far (a video DVD, a book, an

email from Dr. Abraham) they all say to take the therapy under the watch of a

physician. A physician will normally tell someone what they know about iodine,

correct?

By the way, my wife's name is . I like you already! :)

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > >

> > > > <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > > Iodine

> > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> > share.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Ken-

I am a medical provider, A Family Nurse Practitioner. I am fully able to

tell whether or not I was having an anaphylactic reaction or not. I coded

and thank god that they had a crash cart in the office.

Iodine is a bit different than vit. C or Vit B. I am not saying everyone

will react to iodine the way I reacted, but some unsuspecting people will

and the point is that if one is going to take iodine or any supplement that

has potential to cause an anaphylactic reaction to it, it is ethical to tell

them to take a test dose in a medical provider's office. Telling or

advising someone to take 50 mg or 100 mg of iodine first off is unethical

and medical malpractice.

In Medicine we always start low and go slow in dosing increases to make sure

the person does not end up having an anaphylactic rxn or other serious

adverse rxn to it.

-- Re: That faulty iodine paper

Well, you know what, ? I just took 10 grams of Vitamin C and also 100

mg of most of the B vitamins. Guess what...I didn't die! not only that, but

my oncoming cold was VERY wimpy because of it. Today, I have NO symptoms of

the cold anymore.

, you have to remember that the RDA is a generic recommendation for a

large population that is designed to prevent severe disease in most people

who ingest the RDA. In the case of Vitamin C for instance, all 100mg is

going to do is help prevent scurvy. The RDA for Iodine is only designed to

prevent goiter. For most people.

says she was about " to die. " How do we know that she actually had a

definitely life-threatening reaction to it? The term " about to die " is often

just used as hyperbole. Maybe she could have. But we really don't know. I'm

not saying people out there don't have serious reactions to things, all I'm

saying is that a severe life threatening reactions to most vitamins and

minerals is pretty rare. A girl in Canada died a year or two ago just from

kissing a boy who had peanut butter residue on his lips. Are we supposed to

severely restrict peanut butter because ONE person we heard about in the

news died?

-Ken Bagwell

> > >

> > > It has been mentioned many times. IIRC Chuck mentioned within the past

> > > week that Abraham owns Optimox and that Flechas, Brownstein [and

> > others]

> > > are paid to promote iodine for Optimox.

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > > .

>

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Ok, I stand corrected.

-- Re: That faulty iodine paper

Excuse me, . In all the materials I have thus far (a video DVD, a

book, an email from Dr. Abraham) they all say to take the therapy under the

watch of a physician. A physician will normally tell someone what they know

about iodine, correct?

By the way, my wife's name is . I like you already! :)

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > >

> > > >

<mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > > Iodine

> > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> > share.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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As part of my research, I'm going to find out what the protocol from Abraham,

Brownstein, and Fletchas is in their own practices; Do they have people take

test doses before going full speed ahead on a regimen?

I suspect Brownstein does, at least. He mentioned in a video DVD that something

like 4 patients he had were actually allergic to iodine, and he was able to get

3 of them to reduce or eliminate the allergy (I'm not sure how he does this).

-Ken Bagwell

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I believe Chuck has already answered that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > .

> > > > > > .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> <mailto:kenancy2000@?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> > > > > > > kenancy2000 <kenancy2000

> > > > > <kenancy2000>>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:20 pm (PDT)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi ,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I could see those three being related, as all their work on the

> > > > > Iodine

> > > > > > > Project has been together, although Abraham has done the lion's

> > > share.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tell me everything you know about their financial relationship.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Ken Bagwell

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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For a while, I lived near a highway were nuclear wastes was going to be

transported to a nuclear storage facility in Nevada. The facility has

to date never been put into use but I purchased some Iodine tablets for

the entire family and then some in cause of the very rare change of an

accident near us. I think radioactive Iodine uptake by the thyroid is

one of the worsts problems with environmental radiation contamination

and that supplement Iodine, high doses, limits this problem.

Steve

wrote:

> There are a number of studies in which people purposefully or

> accidentally ingested large quantities of iodine, and many of them

> without too much obvious harm if any at all. As a matter of fact I

> think that if there were to be a major nuclear accident in the US with

> radioactive fallout over wide areas that the general population would

> probably be dosed with massive quantities of iodine. Possibly some of

> them would be harmed or die from it; but the otherwise certain harm is

> thought to be great enough to justify a few deaths.

>

> I guess I should hasten to add that I am not totally confident of the

> above facts so I would appreciate any correction needed.

>

> Regards,

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

" The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

" Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

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> >

> > > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

> > responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

> >

> > You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> > statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> > acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> > to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> > Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> > depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> > " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> > all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> > doctor's insisted they go back on them.

> >

> > I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> > performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> > down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> > although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> > computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> > statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> > taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> > I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> > of worry over heart health.

> >

> > One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> > taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> > statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> > and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> > from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> > I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> > performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug

> > experience.

> >

> > So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> > doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> > one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> > Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> > or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> > information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> > Americans to research.

> >

> > --

> >

> > Steve - dudescholar4@... <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

> >

> > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> > run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

> >

> > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

> >

> > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> > <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html>

>

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Let's not forget about medical ghostwriting, too.

http://www.freedomofchoiceinhealthcare.ca/Articles/Misc/misc15.html

" Blair Snitch is paid to write up positive reports. So bad side effects that

could affect patient safety, are sometimes completely ignored.

Snitch makes over $100,000 a year as a medical ghostwriter. An article that

makes its way into a prestigious medical journal — like the Lancet, British

Medical Journal, New England Journal of Medicine — will earn up to $20,000. "

-Ken Bagwell

>

> Chuck,

>

> With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point of not

being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know. Even Nature and JAMA

were sighted recently for rigging the peer review process. They let people who

own stock in companies whose products or articles are being reviewed sit on the

review board. A blatant conflict of interests.

>

> Mike

>

> >

> > The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> > pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> > has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

>

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hi thank you for worrying . i stopped taking statins because i began loosing my

hair quickly . the dr said it's a successfull traetment that block cholesterol

" the bad one " and it succeede really and the lab tests shows the difference but

i loss my hair and this affects my mode and make me stressed all the time and

this affects tsh level which i never succeed to stabilize . any one can advise

me of other med that blocks cholesterol and not affecting my hair because i

already lose it because of hypothyrodism?

> > >

> > > > If people are under the care of a physician, they have somewhat of a

> > > responsibility to at least report negative reactions, don't you think?

> > >

> > > You would think so. However, it is becoming more and more apparent that

> > > statin drugs, extensively prescribed, have many more side effects than

> > > acknowledged but doctors almost never reported their patients complaints

> > > to the drug and generally complete dismiss them as something else.

> > > Almost all muscle pain, memory problem, cognitive dysfunction,

> > > depression, and feeling like s* & t are almost always attributed to

> > > " aging " . I've seen a very large amount of reports by individuals almost

> > > all of home had improvements within days of stopping statin drugs who's

> > > doctor's insisted they go back on them.

> > >

> > > I personally had muscle pain in hands and legs and noticed that my

> > > performance on timed computer games that I played regularly had slowed

> > > down by 20-30%. It took weeks for most of the muscle pain to go away

> > > although some leg pain lasted a few months. It took months for my

> > > computer gaming performance to recover in full. I actually stopped the

> > > statin drugs on my own AND informed my cardiologist that I was never

> > > taking them again. The first statin drug I took caused arrhythmias and

> > > I didn't make the association until I had gone through many many months

> > > of worry over heart health.

> > >

> > > One thing that benefited me that most people don't do is that I was

> > > taking high dose CoQ10, something that is decreased significantly by

> > > statin drugs. I attribute this as partially responsible for my quick

> > > and complete recovery. Some of the people I know that have muscle pain

> > > from statin drugs are still not fully recovered many years afterwards.

> > > I'm sure they would be quite displease if they had had cognitive

> > > performance and memory tests before and after their statin drug

> > > experience.

> > >

> > > So no, doctors rarely if ever report negative reactions to drugs. I

> > > doubt that if you were to talk to an average doctor that you will find

> > > one that has ever filed and adverse reaction report with the FDA.

> > > Doctors should be required to report all drugs that either didn't work,

> > > or cause any form of side effect and that information, with personal

> > > information removed, should be a database that is available to all

> > > Americans to research.

> > >

> > > --

> > >

> > > Steve - dudescholar4@ <mailto:dudescholar4%40basicmail.net>

> > >

> > > " The Problem with Socialism is that eventually you

> > > run out of Other People's Money. " --Margaret Thatcher

> > >

> > > " Mistrust of Government is the Bedrock of American Patriotism "

> > >

> > > Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

> > > http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

> > > <http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html>

> >

>

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Your choice is to believe the peer review process which may not always

be 100% accurate or believe the obvious con artist or quack or some

gullible follower. It's your choice.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " mikensd " mikensd@...

>

<mailto:mikensd@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> mikensd <mikensd>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 4:49 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Chuck,

>

> With all due respect, the peer review process is tainted to the point

> of not being credible in many cases, but which?? You don't know. Even

> Nature and JAMA were sighted recently for rigging the peer review

> process. They let people who own stock in companies whose products or

> articles are being reviewed sit on the review board. A blatant

> conflict of interests.

>

> Mike

>

> >

> > The difference between this sort of pay arrangement and that of

> > pharmaceutical companies paying for research, is that the latter still

> > has to have peer review and confirmation by outside parties.

> >

> > Chuck

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Well, you know what, Ken? Many times I get the definite early symptoms

of a cold such as a scratchy or sore throat or inflamed sinus and the

next day it is totally gone. And I took nothing at all for it.

Do you realize the value [or lack thereof] of anecdotal evidence in

credible research?

As a medical professional I suspect knows her symptoms

sufficiently well to evaluate her condition. Or at least better than a

none professional with no demonstrated expertise who chooses to doubt

her capabilities.

..

..

>

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 9:03 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> Well, you know what, ? I just took 10 grams of Vitamin C and also

> 100 mg of most of the B vitamins. Guess what...I didn't die! not only

> that, but my oncoming cold was VERY wimpy because of it. Today, I have

> NO symptoms of the cold anymore.

>

> , you have to remember that the RDA is a generic recommendation

> for a large population that is designed to prevent severe disease in

> most people who ingest the RDA. In the case of Vitamin C for instance,

> all 100mg is going to do is help prevent scurvy. The RDA for Iodine is

> only designed to prevent goiter. For most people.

>

> says she was about " to die. " How do we know that she actually

> had a definitely life-threatening reaction to it? The term " about to

> die " is often just used as hyperbole. Maybe she could have. But we

> really don't know. I'm not saying people out there don't have serious

> reactions to things, all I'm saying is that a severe life threatening

> reactions to most vitamins and minerals is pretty rare. A girl in

> Canada died a year or two ago just from kissing a boy who had peanut

> butter residue on his lips. Are we supposed to severely restrict

> peanut butter because ONE person we heard about in the news died?

>

> -Ken Bagwell

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But the change of heart came years after promoting the excessive use of

iodine based upon that patently bogus " test " . And as I said, the urine

loading test has problems of its own that AFAIK have never been

addressed. You don't need me to tell you what they are; if you're

reasonably bright they will be obvious when you read the recommended

procedures.

Anyway, not too long ago I read something by one of the iodine docs that

while it was admitted that the tests were " not of sufficient accuracy "

[understatement of the century] that we should just skip the tests and

go straight into massive doses of iodine without the benefit of tests.

IIRC they seem to think that about 95% of us in the US have a massive

iodine deficiency. And with not one iota of credible research to back

that opinion up.

Ken, while you're doing " research " please include some of the 99.99...%

of credible research that disputes the " suggestions " of the iodine

docs. Then we won't need to waste so much bandwidth here.

..

..

>

> Posted by: " kenancy2000 " kenancy2000@...

>

<mailto:kenancy2000@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20That%20faulty%20iodine%20paper>

> kenancy2000 <kenancy2000>

>

>

> Sun Oct 4, 2009 9:08 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> " As a matter of fact it was so bogus that eventually Abraham recanted

> his recommendations after experiments he performed or evaluating

> experiments performed by others. "

>

> " Now much more credibility is assigned to the urine iodine loading

> test by those somewhat knowledgable on the matters; "

>

> Well, now, you can see that Abraham is not just sitting on his hands,

> then. Progress is being made, and by your own admission, the newer

> test has much more credibility.

>

> That's good!

>

> -Ken Bagwell

>

>

> >

> > How the h*ll can you say " ...It remains to be seen... " ??? is a

> > medical practitioner; she treats patients, writes prescriptions & etc.

> > Do you think she does not have the intelligence and education to

> > evaluate her own reaction??? Especially when such reactions [although

> > not all that common] are well docummented in the medical literature???

> >

> > I don't have any problem with any doctor developing a pill that is more

> > convenient than present methods, although there is some small potential

> > for conflicts when he/she sells the product. But it would not normally

> > be of concern to me. It does become a concern when the doctor selling

> > the product starts recommending it at thousands of times RDA; with no

> > credible research, and contrary to all the credible research that

> exists.

> >

> > An example: The iodine docs used to promote the iodine skin patch test

> > as " proof " that patients needed more iodine. The idea, utterly

> > unsupported by any evidence, was that if iodine were applied to the

> skin

> > and the body needed iodine it would absorb it; if the body had

> > sufficient iodine the iodine would remain on the skin. The problem was

> > that with this test everybody showed that they needed to supplement

> with

> > iodine; because numerous factors resulted in typically 88% of the

> iodine

> > would evaporate. Further, the evaporation rate is dependent upon

> > factors such as temperature, humidity, pressure and God only know what

> > else. So the test was totally bogus. As a matter of fact it was so

> > bogus that eventually Abraham recanted his recommendations after

> > experiments he performed or evaluating experiments performed by others.

> > Here is a link to that report:

> > .

> > .

> >

> > > <http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/updates/UNIOD-02/UNIOD_02.htm

> <http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/updates/UNIOD-02/UNIOD_02.htm>>

> > .

> > .

> > But you will _still_ find quacks or foolish, gullible people supporting

> > the iodine skin patch test as " proof " that you need iodine.

> >

> > Now much more credibility is assigned to the urine iodine loading test

> > by those somewhat knowledgable on the matters; but it also has

> > credibility problems that have not been addressed AFAIK.

> >

> >

> > .

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