Re: Online EMT Course

[Guest guest]

What about at EMSTOCK next year? Get ourseffs off in a corner of the estate

and do our thing there?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

What about at EMSTOCK next year? Get ourseffs off in a corner of the estate

and do our thing there?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Let's do it.

, will this fit in with EMStock? Can we have a little corner of the

turf for this? Would you participate?

G

>

>

> In a message dated 10/28/04 4:32:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 

> wegandy1938@... writes:

>

> I think  we need to have an EMS Education Summit.   Just instructors, 

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.   

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance 

> learning,  

> modular learning, flexible entry and  exit,   and have fun with them.  

>

> No pedants, no  salespeople,   just educators exchanging ideas and pushing

> the 

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the  motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany,  TX 76430

> wegandy1938@...

>

>

>

>

> I agree wholeheartedly with you, Gene.  I think this would be very 

> beneficial, interesting, and productive.

>

>

> Education Coordinator

> Champion EMS

> Longview, Texas

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let's do it.

, will this fit in with EMStock? Can we have a little corner of the

turf for this? Would you participate?

G

>

>

> In a message dated 10/28/04 4:32:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 

> wegandy1938@... writes:

>

> I think  we need to have an EMS Education Summit.   Just instructors, 

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.   

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance 

> learning,  

> modular learning, flexible entry and  exit,   and have fun with them.  

>

> No pedants, no  salespeople,   just educators exchanging ideas and pushing

> the 

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the  motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany,  TX 76430

> wegandy1938@...

>

>

>

>

> I agree wholeheartedly with you, Gene.  I think this would be very 

> beneficial, interesting, and productive.

>

>

> Education Coordinator

> Champion EMS

> Longview, Texas

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let's do it.

, will this fit in with EMStock? Can we have a little corner of the

turf for this? Would you participate?

G

>

>

> In a message dated 10/28/04 4:32:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 

> wegandy1938@... writes:

>

> I think  we need to have an EMS Education Summit.   Just instructors, 

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.   

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance 

> learning,  

> modular learning, flexible entry and  exit,   and have fun with them.  

>

> No pedants, no  salespeople,   just educators exchanging ideas and pushing

> the 

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the  motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany,  TX 76430

> wegandy1938@...

>

>

>

>

> I agree wholeheartedly with you, Gene.  I think this would be very 

> beneficial, interesting, and productive.

>

>

> Education Coordinator

> Champion EMS

> Longview, Texas

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Let me join you in putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment,

and ask the simple question How do we determine that they have

mastered the material? Testing? That is what started this thread.

Just my thought.

>

> Putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment, what relevance

does any

> number of hours in classroom attendance have to do with anything?

A student

> who slept for 120 hours during class because he is dead tired

hasn't done

> anything but exhibit 120 hours of classroom sleep. On the other

hand, he may find

> time to study during his all-night work shift and master the

material in 1/2

> the time.

>

> If a student can handle a module that is estimated to take 10 hours

in 2,

> demonstrate mastery of the information, then why in the world would

we want them

> to waste the rest of that time?

>

> I took the Online drivers safety course. I was set up that way.

> Absolutely maddening. I felt that I was being kept in jail for

the number of hours of

> the course as penance for my sins. I could have covered the

materials and

> answered the questions in 1/4 the alloted amount of time. I did

manage to

> finish a new Tom Clancy book while the clock was running.

>

>

>

> I believe that Texas requires a course coordinator to cover and

certify that

> the course content has been covered, not that a butt has occupied a

chair for

> any amount of time.

>

> G

>

> n a message dated 10/28/04 11:58:23, bbledsoe@e... writes

>

> >

> > In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS

CME, there

> > have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> > If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> > will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer

would not let

> > the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> > daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> > of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> > your point--but there are two sides to it.

> >

> > BEB

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> > RE: Online EMT Course

> >

> >

> > One question, Dr. B, about your comment:  >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> > students from moving from one topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<< 

What has

> > time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? 

Since

> > different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> > really has very little to do with outcomes of learning.  Some

students learn

> > at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe

they are just

> > that basically intelligent.  Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> > proceed is only irritating and unnecessary.   Other students take

twice as

> > long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> > through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> > it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again.  I personally

think that

> > this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> > because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> > done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

> >

> > Just my opinion...

> >

> > Jane Hill

> >

> > -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> > <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

> >

> > Hey gang:

> >

> > Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> > on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> > author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> > do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> > theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> > in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> > Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be

at the 11th

> > grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students

and EMTs.

> > Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described

in the text,

> > reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan

of the

> > national registry but they are trying to make their test task-

based

> > (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three

ares of

> > interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> > through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> > Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and

testing of all

> > special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> > Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> > a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> > Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

> >

> > 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> > (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> > videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> > 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> > hours).

> > 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> > study (a textbook may suffice).

> > 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> > 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be

provided in a

> > classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center

for

> > Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS

lab with

> > patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in

Texas to

> > provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to

the student

> > and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> > on-line program.

> > 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

> >

> > For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> > must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are

doing this

> > on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> > Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> > need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

> >

> > For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must

be

> > fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> > clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> > through the test and must offer some objective measures at the

end. EMS

> > people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> > computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> > not interactive or challenging.

> >

> > But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> > student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> > white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> > (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> > the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for

2006 for

> > low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

> >

> > I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I

don't get on

> > the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go

back to work

> > again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> > the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> > programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends

on some of

> > the things I listed above.

> >

> > BEB 

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Let me join you in putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment,

and ask the simple question How do we determine that they have

mastered the material? Testing? That is what started this thread.

Just my thought.

>

> Putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment, what relevance

does any

> number of hours in classroom attendance have to do with anything?

A student

> who slept for 120 hours during class because he is dead tired

hasn't done

> anything but exhibit 120 hours of classroom sleep. On the other

hand, he may find

> time to study during his all-night work shift and master the

material in 1/2

> the time.

>

> If a student can handle a module that is estimated to take 10 hours

in 2,

> demonstrate mastery of the information, then why in the world would

we want them

> to waste the rest of that time?

>

> I took the Online drivers safety course. I was set up that way.

> Absolutely maddening. I felt that I was being kept in jail for

the number of hours of

> the course as penance for my sins. I could have covered the

materials and

> answered the questions in 1/4 the alloted amount of time. I did

manage to

> finish a new Tom Clancy book while the clock was running.

>

>

>

> I believe that Texas requires a course coordinator to cover and

certify that

> the course content has been covered, not that a butt has occupied a

chair for

> any amount of time.

>

> G

>

> n a message dated 10/28/04 11:58:23, bbledsoe@e... writes

>

> >

> > In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS

CME, there

> > have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> > If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> > will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer

would not let

> > the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> > daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> > of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> > your point--but there are two sides to it.

> >

> > BEB

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> > RE: Online EMT Course

> >

> >

> > One question, Dr. B, about your comment:  >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> > students from moving from one topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<< 

What has

> > time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? 

Since

> > different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> > really has very little to do with outcomes of learning.  Some

students learn

> > at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe

they are just

> > that basically intelligent.  Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> > proceed is only irritating and unnecessary.   Other students take

twice as

> > long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> > through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> > it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again.  I personally

think that

> > this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> > because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> > done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

> >

> > Just my opinion...

> >

> > Jane Hill

> >

> > -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> > <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

> >

> > Hey gang:

> >

> > Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> > on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> > author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> > do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> > theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> > in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> > Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be

at the 11th

> > grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students

and EMTs.

> > Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described

in the text,

> > reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan

of the

> > national registry but they are trying to make their test task-

based

> > (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three

ares of

> > interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> > through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> > Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and

testing of all

> > special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> > Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> > a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> > Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

> >

> > 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> > (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> > videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> > 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> > hours).

> > 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> > study (a textbook may suffice).

> > 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> > 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be

provided in a

> > classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center

for

> > Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS

lab with

> > patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in

Texas to

> > provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to

the student

> > and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> > on-line program.

> > 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

> >

> > For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> > must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are

doing this

> > on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> > Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> > need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

> >

> > For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must

be

> > fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> > clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> > through the test and must offer some objective measures at the

end. EMS

> > people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> > computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> > not interactive or challenging.

> >

> > But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> > student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> > white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> > (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> > the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for

2006 for

> > low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

> >

> > I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I

don't get on

> > the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go

back to work

> > again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> > the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> > programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends

on some of

> > the things I listed above.

> >

> > BEB 

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Let me join you in putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment,

and ask the simple question How do we determine that they have

mastered the material? Testing? That is what started this thread.

Just my thought.

>

> Putting on my devil's advocate hat for a moment, what relevance

does any

> number of hours in classroom attendance have to do with anything?

A student

> who slept for 120 hours during class because he is dead tired

hasn't done

> anything but exhibit 120 hours of classroom sleep. On the other

hand, he may find

> time to study during his all-night work shift and master the

material in 1/2

> the time.

>

> If a student can handle a module that is estimated to take 10 hours

in 2,

> demonstrate mastery of the information, then why in the world would

we want them

> to waste the rest of that time?

>

> I took the Online drivers safety course. I was set up that way.

> Absolutely maddening. I felt that I was being kept in jail for

the number of hours of

> the course as penance for my sins. I could have covered the

materials and

> answered the questions in 1/4 the alloted amount of time. I did

manage to

> finish a new Tom Clancy book while the clock was running.

>

>

>

> I believe that Texas requires a course coordinator to cover and

certify that

> the course content has been covered, not that a butt has occupied a

chair for

> any amount of time.

>

> G

>

> n a message dated 10/28/04 11:58:23, bbledsoe@e... writes

>

> >

> > In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS

CME, there

> > have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> > If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> > will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer

would not let

> > the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> > daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> > of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> > your point--but there are two sides to it.

> >

> > BEB

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> > RE: Online EMT Course

> >

> >

> > One question, Dr. B, about your comment:  >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> > students from moving from one topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<< 

What has

> > time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? 

Since

> > different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> > really has very little to do with outcomes of learning.  Some

students learn

> > at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe

they are just

> > that basically intelligent.  Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> > proceed is only irritating and unnecessary.   Other students take

twice as

> > long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> > through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> > it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again.  I personally

think that

> > this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> > because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> > done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

> >

> > Just my opinion...

> >

> > Jane Hill

> >

> > -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> > <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

> >

> > Hey gang:

> >

> > Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> > on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> > author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> > do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> > theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> > in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> > Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be

at the 11th

> > grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students

and EMTs.

> > Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described

in the text,

> > reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan

of the

> > national registry but they are trying to make their test task-

based

> > (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three

ares of

> > interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> > through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> > Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and

testing of all

> > special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> > Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> > a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> > Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

> >

> > 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> > (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> > videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> > 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> > hours).

> > 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> > study (a textbook may suffice).

> > 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> > to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> > 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be

provided in a

> > classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center

for

> > Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS

lab with

> > patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in

Texas to

> > provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to

the student

> > and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> > on-line program.

> > 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

> >

> > For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> > must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are

doing this

> > on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> > Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> > need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

> >

> > For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must

be

> > fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> > clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> > through the test and must offer some objective measures at the

end. EMS

> > people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> > computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> > not interactive or challenging.

> >

> > But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> > student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> > white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> > (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> > the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for

2006 for

> > low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

> >

> > I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I

don't get on

> > the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go

back to work

> > again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> > the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> > programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends

on some of

> > the things I listed above.

> >

> > BEB 

> >

> >

> > E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> > Midlothian, TX

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

You have it, Now the vote!!!

> I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just

instructors,

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance

learning,

> modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with

them.

>

> No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and

pushing the

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany, TX 76430

> wegandy1938@a...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You have it, Now the vote!!!

> I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just

instructors,

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance

learning,

> modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with

them.

>

> No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and

pushing the

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany, TX 76430

> wegandy1938@a...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You have it, Now the vote!!!

> I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just

instructors,

> coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

>

> We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance

learning,

> modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with

them.

>

> No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and

pushing the

> envelope of understanding.

>

> Anybody willing to second the motion?

>

> GG

>

>

>

> E.(Gene) Gandy

> POB 1651

> Albany, TX 76430

> wegandy1938@a...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Set a date.....

Berry Ingram

Crane, TX

I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just instructors,

coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance learning,

modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with them.

No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and pushing

the

envelope of understanding.

Anybody willing to second the motion?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Set a date.....

Berry Ingram

Crane, TX

I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just instructors,

coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance learning,

modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with them.

No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and pushing

the

envelope of understanding.

Anybody willing to second the motion?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it to me. Let's have an Educator's camp and just deal with

education stuff.

gg

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it to me. Let's have an Educator's camp and just deal with

education stuff.

gg

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Sounds like it to me. Let's have an Educator's camp and just deal with

education stuff.

gg

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

When I took my basic many, many moons ago, we had to punch in too. If

you were short, you either had to make it up or not receive your

course completion cert.

> In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS CME,

there

> have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer would

not let

> the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> your point--but there are two sides to it.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> RE: Online EMT Course

>

>

> One question, Dr. B, about your comment: >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<<

What has

> time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? Since

> different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> really has very little to do with outcomes of learning. Some

students learn

> at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe they

are just

> that basically intelligent. Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> proceed is only irritating and unnecessary. Other students take

twice as

> long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again. I personally

think that

> this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

>

> Just my opinion...

>

> Jane Hill

>

> -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> theory). Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at

the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and

EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in

the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of

the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares

of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing

of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided

in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab

with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas

to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the

student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing

this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end.

EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006

for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't

get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back

to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on

some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I took my basic many, many moons ago, we had to punch in too. If

you were short, you either had to make it up or not receive your

course completion cert.

> In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS CME,

there

> have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer would

not let

> the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> your point--but there are two sides to it.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> RE: Online EMT Course

>

>

> One question, Dr. B, about your comment: >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<<

What has

> time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? Since

> different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> really has very little to do with outcomes of learning. Some

students learn

> at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe they

are just

> that basically intelligent. Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> proceed is only irritating and unnecessary. Other students take

twice as

> long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again. I personally

think that

> this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

>

> Just my opinion...

>

> Jane Hill

>

> -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> theory). Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at

the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and

EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in

the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of

the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares

of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing

of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided

in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab

with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas

to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the

student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing

this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end.

EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006

for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't

get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back

to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on

some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When I took my basic many, many moons ago, we had to punch in too. If

you were short, you either had to make it up or not receive your

course completion cert.

> In terms of accredidaton for physican, nursing and I think EMS CME,

there

> have to be safegaurds to keep the students from going directly to

the test.

> If you as a course director attest to 120 hours classroom

attendence, how

> will you now your attestation is correct unless the computer would

not let

> the students get to the test until a certain amount of time has

passed? My

> daughter recently finished cosmetology school at Hill College and

the State

> of Texas requires 1,500 hours minumum. They had to punch a time

clock. I see

> your point--but there are two sides to it.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> RE: Online EMT Course

>

>

> One question, Dr. B, about your comment: >4. There must be a way

to prevent

> students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<<

What has

> time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? Since

> different people learn at different rates, we have found that

butt " time "

> really has very little to do with outcomes of learning. Some

students learn

> at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe they

are just

> that basically intelligent. Forcing them to wait for a period of

time to

> proceed is only irritating and unnecessary. Other students take

twice as

> long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the

instructor

> through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just

didn't get

> it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again. I personally

think that

> this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be

propagated

> because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has

ALWAYS been

> done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained

response.

>

> Just my opinion...

>

> Jane Hill

>

> -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> <bbledsoe@e...>: --------------

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in

favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a

textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual

learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature,

abstract

> theory). Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals

per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP

Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at

the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and

EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in

the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of

the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares

of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical

director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special

Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing

of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs,

Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS

education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the

National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very

visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when

possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at

reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from

which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one

topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided

in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab

with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas

to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the

student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a

good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National

Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special

forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing

this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk

here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and

thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent

students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end.

EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are

experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with

something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still

require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor

with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher

courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that

corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006

for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book

secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't

get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back

to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been

immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-

line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on

some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds like ANOTHER good reason to make plans to attend...

Berry Ingram

What about at EMSTOCK next year? Get ourseffs off in a corner of the

estate

and do our thing there?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

Sounds like ANOTHER good reason to make plans to attend...

Berry Ingram

What about at EMSTOCK next year? Get ourseffs off in a corner of the

estate

and do our thing there?

GG

E.(Gene) Gandy

POB 1651

Albany, TX 76430

wegandy1938@...

[Guest guest]

As if this horse hasn't been beat enough, I guess I'll add my two cents. Being a

graduating college student as of this coming December, I have taken an online

class or two or three+. I must say for those blow off courses that really don't

mean much in the area that you are getting your degree, online courses are

great. Mainly because they are quick and easy, for example I finished two online

courses in just over five weeks, and I bet if I was to take the finals again now

I would fail miserably.

For something such as an EMT course I feel that this would be a bit much for a

person to take online. For one the student would have nothing but book

knowledge, my self like many I think can really get a lot out of the old war

stories that instructors like to tell in class. In my opinion this give the

student although not their own, but none the less a little experience.

Additional I will go one to say in my opinion the EMT-B class gives you the

foundation for EMS. Like anything else if it doesn't have a good foundation it

will fail.

To sum up my little spill like many things in life nothing come easy. If you

want it bad enough you will sacrifice in order to get what you want.

Ferguson

EMT-Best

just kiddin

RE: Online EMT Course

>

>

> One question, Dr. B, about your comment: >4. There must be a way to prevent

> students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.<< What has

> time seated in a chair got to do with retention or learning? Since

> different people learn at different rates, we have found that butt " time "

> really has very little to do with outcomes of learning. Some students learn

> at a very fast pace - maybe they have prior exposure or maybe they are just

> that basically intelligent. Forcing them to wait for a period of time to

> proceed is only irritating and unnecessary. Other students take twice as

> long as the average student, and it becomes evident to the instructor

> through discussions, testing, and hands-on that the student just didn't get

> it and needs to revisit the topic or subject again. I personally think that

> this is just another one of those issues that has continued to be propagated

> because we THINK that it is necessary, that is the way it has ALWAYS been

> done (even in live classroom training), and is another ingrained response.

>

> Just my opinion...

>

> Jane Hill

>

> -------------- Original message from " Bledsoe "

> : --------------

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature, abstract

> theory). Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs, Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end. EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006 for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Count me in.

Barry Meffert

In a message dated 10/28/2004 6:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just instructors,

coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance learning,

modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with them.

No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and pushing the

envelope of understanding.

Anybody willing to second the motion?

GG

[Guest guest]

Count me in.

Barry Meffert

In a message dated 10/28/2004 6:32:22 PM Central Daylight Time,

wegandy1938@... writes:

I think we need to have an EMS Education Summit. Just instructors,

coordinators, authors, course builders and so forth.

We should take some topics like problem based learning, distance learning,

modular learning, flexible entry and exit, and have fun with them.

No pedants, no salespeople, just educators exchanging ideas and pushing the

envelope of understanding.

Anybody willing to second the motion?

GG

[Guest guest]

<As far as ECA or EMT-B online in our company being " quick and easy " , not

<hardly.

To add my two cents! Years ago, I completed a few CE hours I needed with an

online program...I was amazed that I could knock out the hours needed in

minutes. Didn't learn anything (could have--the material was there to read--but

didn't, took the tests and was done with it) Know several people who completed

all their CE this way--in a very short period of time. So, agree that some

things could be improved there!

Currently 2 of our guys are involved in an online EMT class (one is a shift

worker, who traditional classroom instruction was definitely out for)...the

class is one in which most of the didactic portion is via computer, they also

have to meet once a week for I believe 6hrs for skills practice, videos, review

etc. They are both learning an incredible amount, say it's difficult at times

to keep up with (have to be motivated etc). I have no doubt either one will

pass the NR exam and be proficient field providers. Our agency also has a

rather lengthy preceptor program for new certs-so that will help as well.

We are considering sending several students through another online program,

with the additional requirements thru our dept. of having a weekly

skills/review/video etc class. Depending on who these students are (several are

new to

the dept), it may work well.

On another note---recently began an online instructor class. Haven't gotten

very far yet, but already know it wont be a " walk in the park " . And, I've

been an instructor before (have taken 2 " real " classes) and have an advanced

education degree! Haven't seen any similarities to the CE online I've done

previously--wont be a quickie answer the questions and you're done experience!!

I think online education has a purpose and a place. I'm leery of programs

that may be throwing students out there...but there are also traditional

programs that are doing that as well. I know for our department's purposes, we

have

safeguards in place to insure minimal competencies for new providers.

Not so sure online programs can provide what's needed for advanced training's

though--havent seen one yet that has!

Kathi

CVFD