Re: Online EMT Course

[Guest guest]

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class? We just

posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

experienced eye of an instructor.

While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

material). Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

things.

On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class? We just

posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

experienced eye of an instructor.

While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

material). Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

things.

On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class? We just

posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

experienced eye of an instructor.

While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

material). Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

things.

On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

everything else but that.

Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

Cristi

[Guest guest]

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it. By

the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes more

sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take an online

basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know them, plus a

lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on your skills if

the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's, just

not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it. By

the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes more

sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take an online

basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know them, plus a

lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on your skills if

the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's, just

not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it. By

the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes more

sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take an online

basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know them, plus a

lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on your skills if

the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's, just

not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

My skills are current & correct, as I use them as well as teach them

everyday, and I wouldn't expect anything less than Lance expecting me to skills

verify. I hope my skills are good enough for him, he taught me some of them!!!

Like I said before Doc, I'm not trying to argue with you. For someone that

hasn't been consistently in the medical field practicing in some way, shape or

form for 10 years, an on-line course is probably not the best option, but for

me, it looks and sounds pretty good...

Thanks,

Cristi

[Guest guest]

My skills are current & correct, as I use them as well as teach them

everyday, and I wouldn't expect anything less than Lance expecting me to skills

verify. I hope my skills are good enough for him, he taught me some of them!!!

Like I said before Doc, I'm not trying to argue with you. For someone that

hasn't been consistently in the medical field practicing in some way, shape or

form for 10 years, an on-line course is probably not the best option, but for

me, it looks and sounds pretty good...

Thanks,

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How will Lance (or another coordinator) know that your skills are correct?

Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not, or perhaps you were taught wrong, or

perhaps they are not current. Lance takes great responsibility as a course

coordinator and must verify skills proficiency.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it.

By the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes

more sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take

an online basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know

them, plus a lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on

your skills if the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's,

just not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How will Lance (or another coordinator) know that your skills are correct?

Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not, or perhaps you were taught wrong, or

perhaps they are not current. Lance takes great responsibility as a course

coordinator and must verify skills proficiency.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it.

By the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes

more sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take

an online basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know

them, plus a lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on

your skills if the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's,

just not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

How will Lance (or another coordinator) know that your skills are correct?

Perhaps they are, perhaps they are not, or perhaps you were taught wrong, or

perhaps they are not current. Lance takes great responsibility as a course

coordinator and must verify skills proficiency.

E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

Re: Online EMT Course

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it.

By the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes

more sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take

an online basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know

them, plus a lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on

your skills if the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's,

just not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

Careful, .

New instructional technologies are appearing all the time, distance education

is getting better, and student demographics change.

Each year the experience of the student base with computer learning

increases, and it will continue to increase.

What you have said is correct to some extent. For older students the

computer is possibly not as friendly a tool as it is for the younger set. I

have

certainly seen that, and many will become frustrated and give up as you say.

But for the young people, use of the computer is as normal as using the

telephone. So let's wait and see how online courses do with this student

population.

On the subject of skills, certainly practice is required. However, we have

some demonstrable success with having students watch the skills being done

correctly online as preparation for the hands-on session. I believe that you

can

shorten the time it takes a student to achieve hands-on proficiency by having

her or him watch a video presentation where it is done correctly, several

times, prior to trying the skill in person.

Consider this: One of the problems with skills instructors is getting them

all to teach the skill the same way and correctly. I can tell you that it

took me years to develop a group of instructors who I could consistently rely

upon to teach the skill the same way.

A video presentation can be a valuable tool for instructors as well as

students.

Now, I could not agree with you more that most EMTs of ALL LEVELS are poorly

prepared in managing airways. I have written that myself on many occasions,

and that's why I demand that all attend a SLAM course or equivalent at some

point in their training.

However, I don't think it takes hours and hours of training to teach

somebody to dress and bandage.

Not sure that I could agree with your assessment that at least one-half the

course must be spent person-to-person.

We have much to learn about EMS education. I'm sure that it's frustrating

for you as an author and for your publishers to try to figure out how to reach

a generation of students who do not read.

And we must at some point realize that education and testing are two entirely

different things.

Right now, everybody's in a tizzy over the NREMT written test. I must

emphasize that NREMT's written exams' relevance to education are zit. Written

exams are an attempt to figure out some way to determine who gets through the

gate and who does not, but anybody who thinks that a multiple choice exam is in

any way reflective of the education and training of a candidate is naive in

the extreme. It is a statistical tool. It tells me nothing whatsoever about

how a person will perform on real patients.

Examining is a terribly flawed process, and the sooner we realize that, the

better.

At some point we need to realize this and figure out better ways to exercise

gatekeeping.

To NREMT's credit, it has done a couple of things in the skills testing area

that I think are very positive. The addition of the oral station is very

positive, and the other ways that it allows observation of the student in action

are excellent.

At one time we were onto the idea that only the education coordinators and

instructors had a good enough picture of a student to evaluate him, based upon a

broad set of observations and measurtements. But with the current hurry to

get things over with quickly and easily, that notion has faded.

If what you're saying is that quick and easy is not going to work, then I

agree with you 100%.

We need to keep an open mind about distance education, but we also must

insist that students demonstrate, through in-person performance, the ability to

think critically, solve problems, and apply knowledge to varying conditions.

That's where we are falling down on the job. We are not giving the student

nearly enough scenario practice, nearly enough problem solving opportunities,

and

relying way too much on isolated skill performance.

Things are changing constantly, and we must be willing to use new tools when

they become available.

Gene G.

>

> How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class?  We just

> posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

> skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

> procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

> experienced eye of an instructor.

>

> While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

> history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

> EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

> least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

> will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

> tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

> rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

> rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

> material).  Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

> levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

> things.

>

> On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

> but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Re: Online EMT Course

>

>

> Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

> everything else but that.

>

> Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

>

> How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

>

>

> Cristi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Careful, .

New instructional technologies are appearing all the time, distance education

is getting better, and student demographics change.

Each year the experience of the student base with computer learning

increases, and it will continue to increase.

What you have said is correct to some extent. For older students the

computer is possibly not as friendly a tool as it is for the younger set. I

have

certainly seen that, and many will become frustrated and give up as you say.

But for the young people, use of the computer is as normal as using the

telephone. So let's wait and see how online courses do with this student

population.

On the subject of skills, certainly practice is required. However, we have

some demonstrable success with having students watch the skills being done

correctly online as preparation for the hands-on session. I believe that you

can

shorten the time it takes a student to achieve hands-on proficiency by having

her or him watch a video presentation where it is done correctly, several

times, prior to trying the skill in person.

Consider this: One of the problems with skills instructors is getting them

all to teach the skill the same way and correctly. I can tell you that it

took me years to develop a group of instructors who I could consistently rely

upon to teach the skill the same way.

A video presentation can be a valuable tool for instructors as well as

students.

Now, I could not agree with you more that most EMTs of ALL LEVELS are poorly

prepared in managing airways. I have written that myself on many occasions,

and that's why I demand that all attend a SLAM course or equivalent at some

point in their training.

However, I don't think it takes hours and hours of training to teach

somebody to dress and bandage.

Not sure that I could agree with your assessment that at least one-half the

course must be spent person-to-person.

We have much to learn about EMS education. I'm sure that it's frustrating

for you as an author and for your publishers to try to figure out how to reach

a generation of students who do not read.

And we must at some point realize that education and testing are two entirely

different things.

Right now, everybody's in a tizzy over the NREMT written test. I must

emphasize that NREMT's written exams' relevance to education are zit. Written

exams are an attempt to figure out some way to determine who gets through the

gate and who does not, but anybody who thinks that a multiple choice exam is in

any way reflective of the education and training of a candidate is naive in

the extreme. It is a statistical tool. It tells me nothing whatsoever about

how a person will perform on real patients.

Examining is a terribly flawed process, and the sooner we realize that, the

better.

At some point we need to realize this and figure out better ways to exercise

gatekeeping.

To NREMT's credit, it has done a couple of things in the skills testing area

that I think are very positive. The addition of the oral station is very

positive, and the other ways that it allows observation of the student in action

are excellent.

At one time we were onto the idea that only the education coordinators and

instructors had a good enough picture of a student to evaluate him, based upon a

broad set of observations and measurtements. But with the current hurry to

get things over with quickly and easily, that notion has faded.

If what you're saying is that quick and easy is not going to work, then I

agree with you 100%.

We need to keep an open mind about distance education, but we also must

insist that students demonstrate, through in-person performance, the ability to

think critically, solve problems, and apply knowledge to varying conditions.

That's where we are falling down on the job. We are not giving the student

nearly enough scenario practice, nearly enough problem solving opportunities,

and

relying way too much on isolated skill performance.

Things are changing constantly, and we must be willing to use new tools when

they become available.

Gene G.

>

> How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class?  We just

> posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

> skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

> procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

> experienced eye of an instructor.

>

> While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

> history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

> EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

> least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

> will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

> tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

> rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

> rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

> material).  Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

> levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

> things.

>

> On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

> but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Re: Online EMT Course

>

>

> Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

> everything else but that.

>

> Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

>

> How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

>

>

> Cristi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Careful, .

New instructional technologies are appearing all the time, distance education

is getting better, and student demographics change.

Each year the experience of the student base with computer learning

increases, and it will continue to increase.

What you have said is correct to some extent. For older students the

computer is possibly not as friendly a tool as it is for the younger set. I

have

certainly seen that, and many will become frustrated and give up as you say.

But for the young people, use of the computer is as normal as using the

telephone. So let's wait and see how online courses do with this student

population.

On the subject of skills, certainly practice is required. However, we have

some demonstrable success with having students watch the skills being done

correctly online as preparation for the hands-on session. I believe that you

can

shorten the time it takes a student to achieve hands-on proficiency by having

her or him watch a video presentation where it is done correctly, several

times, prior to trying the skill in person.

Consider this: One of the problems with skills instructors is getting them

all to teach the skill the same way and correctly. I can tell you that it

took me years to develop a group of instructors who I could consistently rely

upon to teach the skill the same way.

A video presentation can be a valuable tool for instructors as well as

students.

Now, I could not agree with you more that most EMTs of ALL LEVELS are poorly

prepared in managing airways. I have written that myself on many occasions,

and that's why I demand that all attend a SLAM course or equivalent at some

point in their training.

However, I don't think it takes hours and hours of training to teach

somebody to dress and bandage.

Not sure that I could agree with your assessment that at least one-half the

course must be spent person-to-person.

We have much to learn about EMS education. I'm sure that it's frustrating

for you as an author and for your publishers to try to figure out how to reach

a generation of students who do not read.

And we must at some point realize that education and testing are two entirely

different things.

Right now, everybody's in a tizzy over the NREMT written test. I must

emphasize that NREMT's written exams' relevance to education are zit. Written

exams are an attempt to figure out some way to determine who gets through the

gate and who does not, but anybody who thinks that a multiple choice exam is in

any way reflective of the education and training of a candidate is naive in

the extreme. It is a statistical tool. It tells me nothing whatsoever about

how a person will perform on real patients.

Examining is a terribly flawed process, and the sooner we realize that, the

better.

At some point we need to realize this and figure out better ways to exercise

gatekeeping.

To NREMT's credit, it has done a couple of things in the skills testing area

that I think are very positive. The addition of the oral station is very

positive, and the other ways that it allows observation of the student in action

are excellent.

At one time we were onto the idea that only the education coordinators and

instructors had a good enough picture of a student to evaluate him, based upon a

broad set of observations and measurtements. But with the current hurry to

get things over with quickly and easily, that notion has faded.

If what you're saying is that quick and easy is not going to work, then I

agree with you 100%.

We need to keep an open mind about distance education, but we also must

insist that students demonstrate, through in-person performance, the ability to

think critically, solve problems, and apply knowledge to varying conditions.

That's where we are falling down on the job. We are not giving the student

nearly enough scenario practice, nearly enough problem solving opportunities,

and

relying way too much on isolated skill performance.

Things are changing constantly, and we must be willing to use new tools when

they become available.

Gene G.

>

> How are you going to learn the EMT skills if you don't go to class?  We just

> posted yesterday a report by the NREMT that EMTs have horrible airway

> skills--the most fundamental EMT skill. Skills require reading about the

> procedure, watching the procedure, and practicing it repeatedly under the

> experienced eye of an instructor.

>

> While on-line courses have their merit (for things such as philosophy and

> history), on-line courses have their limitations in technical areas such as

> EMS. While I think you can do the didactic part of an EMT course on-line, at

> least half the course must still be in the classroom. I doubt EMT-I courses

> will do well on-line and I know paramedic courses will not (they have been

> tried). The studies have shown that on-line ducation has a high attrition

> rate (people get bored and give up) and a low retention rate (people try and

> rush through the material and take the test and thus do not master the

> material).  Brady is publishing on-line support materials at all EMS

> levels--but it still requires a good educational program to coordinate

> things.

>

> On-line courses might decrease some driving time for those in rural areas,

> but about half the class still must occur in the classroom.

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

> Re: Online EMT Course

>

>

> Hey Lance, is that a requirement for the EVERY Friday thing. I could do

> everything else but that.

>

> Where do you stand with on-line Intermediate?

>

> How come you never e-mail me anymore??? :-)

>

>

> Cristi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

(and the rest of the list),

Let me pose a hypothetical to y'all about online/distance education.

Let's assume that there are skills sessions taught live in-person. (I don't

think ANYONE advocates online skills training alone.) Let's assume that the

online/distance class mandates student participation through chat rooms or

bulletin boards. Let's compare with an " average " EMT-B class where the

instructor does a lecture based solely on some PowerPoint slides that came with

the

instructor's edition of the book. Which student is getting more feedback and

class participation? Which student is going to learn the critical

thinking? And which of these students is going to grasp the airway concepts

the NR

folks are so concerned about? (Although, as a recent NREMT-B exam victim, I

have to question the exam's relevance except as a statistical tool. Of course,

the NR people would hurt me if I shared specific examples of my concerns....)

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Attorney at law/volunteer FF/EMT-B

[Guest guest]

(and the rest of the list),

Let me pose a hypothetical to y'all about online/distance education.

Let's assume that there are skills sessions taught live in-person. (I don't

think ANYONE advocates online skills training alone.) Let's assume that the

online/distance class mandates student participation through chat rooms or

bulletin boards. Let's compare with an " average " EMT-B class where the

instructor does a lecture based solely on some PowerPoint slides that came with

the

instructor's edition of the book. Which student is getting more feedback and

class participation? Which student is going to learn the critical

thinking? And which of these students is going to grasp the airway concepts

the NR

folks are so concerned about? (Although, as a recent NREMT-B exam victim, I

have to question the exam's relevance except as a statistical tool. Of course,

the NR people would hurt me if I shared specific examples of my concerns....)

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Attorney at law/volunteer FF/EMT-B

[Guest guest]

(and the rest of the list),

Let me pose a hypothetical to y'all about online/distance education.

Let's assume that there are skills sessions taught live in-person. (I don't

think ANYONE advocates online skills training alone.) Let's assume that the

online/distance class mandates student participation through chat rooms or

bulletin boards. Let's compare with an " average " EMT-B class where the

instructor does a lecture based solely on some PowerPoint slides that came with

the

instructor's edition of the book. Which student is getting more feedback and

class participation? Which student is going to learn the critical

thinking? And which of these students is going to grasp the airway concepts

the NR

folks are so concerned about? (Although, as a recent NREMT-B exam victim, I

have to question the exam's relevance except as a statistical tool. Of course,

the NR people would hurt me if I shared specific examples of my concerns....)

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Attorney at law/volunteer FF/EMT-B

[Guest guest]

,

This I can agree with. Good thoughts all.

GG

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature, abstract

> theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs, Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end. EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006 for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB 

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

This I can agree with. Good thoughts all.

GG

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature, abstract

> theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs, Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end. EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006 for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB 

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

This I can agree with. Good thoughts all.

GG

>

> Hey gang:

>

> Before you declare me a complete heretic, hear me out. I am in favor of

> on-line EMS education when it can be properly applied. From a textbook

> author standpoint, I know this. EMS students tend to be visual learners and

> do poorly in analytical skiils (math, chemical nomenclature, abstract

> theory).  Because of this, we find that we need about 0.5 visuals per page

> in the books to satisfy this need (this is why the Mosby/ACEP Paramedic

> Textbook never sold). Writing for paramedics (high-end) must be at the 11th

> grade level and at the 9th grade for low-end paramedic students and EMTs.

> Complex concepts have to be listed in the objectives, described in the text,

> reinforced in the art, and verified by the testing. I am no fan of the

> national registry but they are trying to make their test task-based

> (although there are still CISM questions there). I have three ares of

> interest in on-line EMS education. I am affiliated as a medical director

> through Tech-Pro. I am Co-Chair of the United States Special Operations

> Command (USSOCOM) committee to establish the curriculum and testing of all

> special forces medics (Navy Seals, 41-Deltas, Air Force PJs, Airborne and

> Delta Force Medics), and have a big interest in rural EMS education, and am

> a partner in the EMT-Jane on-line CE program affiliated with the National

> Paramedic Institute. I said all that to say this:

>

> 1. If and when on-line education is used for EMS, it must be very visual

> (not page after page of text). It must include art, and when possible,

> videos and gaming. It should have some degree of problem solving.

> 2. An instructor mist be available to answert questions (at reasonable

> hours).

> 3. There must be a written guide to accompany the program from which to

> study (a textbook may suffice).

> 4. There must be a way to prevent students from moving from one topic area

> to another until a certain standard amount of time has passed.

> 5. Analytical skills (math) and psychomotor skills must be provided in a

> classroom setting. I have long advocated Texas follow the Center for

> Emergency Medicine in Pittsburg and develop a semi-trailer EMS lab with

> patient simulators and supplies and travel to remote sites in Texas to

> provide the skills necessary (take the instructor and skills to the student

> and not the other way around). This is a perfect compliment to a good

> on-line program.

> 6. Teach problem-solving at some time and review for the National Registry.

>

> For the military (with the high-level of deployment), special forces medics

> must obtain their sustainment education in the field. We are doing this

> on-line and with high-quality DVDs (of which many are on my desk here).

> Their area of knowledge is muchg broader than civilian medics and thus the

> need for more comprehensive ongoing education.

>

> For the continuing education programs, the on-line material must be

> fast-paced, interactive, fun (even with a touch of humor), and

> clinically-relevent, It too must have safe gaurds to pevent students running

> through the test and must offer some objective measures at the end. EMS

> people of today are familiar with Rescue 911, COPS, and are experienced

> computer gamers (or X-BOT, Nintendo, Sega) and will be bored with something

> not interactive or challenging.

>

> But, there are some aspects of EMS education that will still require a

> student with a #2 pencil and a Big Chief tablet and an instructor with a

> white board (or black board) and a piece of chalk. In the higher courses

> (EMT-I and EMT-P), there still must be a reference text that corrsponds to

> the on-line material. This is soemthing we are working on for 2006 for

> low-end EMT-P programs (a course primarily on-line with the book secondary).

>

> I don't necessarily agree with everything underway, but if I don't get on

> the band wagon--somebody else will and I'll have to really go back to work

> again. Please understand that this is something I have been immersed in for

> the last two years and have seen both sides. I have seen some on-line EMS

> programs fail miserably and some do pretty well. It all depends on some of

> the things I listed above.

>

> BEB 

>

>

> E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

> Midlothian, TX

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just to add my 2 cents from TechPro since we are doing online education now, we

have set things up to allow for skills preparation, practice, testing, etc.

Students are also not allowed to attend clinical or field rotations UNTIL they

have successfully tested off on ALL EMT-Basic skills and then will practice

those skills more under preceptor guidance in those rotations prior to receiving

a Course Completion Certficate. I can't say what Lance or or anyone else

is doing, but our courses are being set up will all in mind. I lay my

Coordinator's certification on the line for NO ONE.

Jane Hill, Clinical Coordinator

TechPro Services, inc.

--------- Re: Online EMT Course

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it.

By the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes

more sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take

an online basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know

them, plus a lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on

your skills if the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's,

just not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi

[Guest guest]

Just to add my 2 cents from TechPro since we are doing online education now, we

have set things up to allow for skills preparation, practice, testing, etc.

Students are also not allowed to attend clinical or field rotations UNTIL they

have successfully tested off on ALL EMT-Basic skills and then will practice

those skills more under preceptor guidance in those rotations prior to receiving

a Course Completion Certficate. I can't say what Lance or or anyone else

is doing, but our courses are being set up will all in mind. I lay my

Coordinator's certification on the line for NO ONE.

Jane Hill, Clinical Coordinator

TechPro Services, inc.

--------- Re: Online EMT Course

I'm different, I have all the skills, made it all the way through mega-code,

but I lost my cert because I went over on the date and couldn't afford it.

By the time it got to where I could, it was virtually too late. It makes

more sense for me, especially since I don't use it in everyday life to take

an online basic course. As far as the skills are concerned, I already know

them, plus a lot more, I was more wondering from Lance if you tested out on

your skills if the every Friday thing was still required.

I understand your point, but for someone who has been previously certified

(especially at a higher level) and manages to keep us with all their KSA's,

just not their paperwork, it's a good option.

Cristi