Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

January 1, 2006

Having operated in such a circumstance, I can tell you that EMS

agencies that contract with government bodies are responsible to the

performance contract they have signed first...because without that,

they cannot be responsive to their BOD, stockholders, etc.

Do you live in Austin? How much say do you have in their operations?

Can you call their admin up and get a change made because they answer

to you? Of course not...not anymore than you can at MetroCare or any

other private around where you work and live...

Just because the paycheck and budget say " City of XXXXXXX " doesn't make

the organization any more responsive to anyone...it is all about how

the organization is set up and how responsive the elected officials

are....which works the exact same way.

The same flaws that allow non-governmental EMS agencies to be in non-

or low- performance contracts are the same flaws that will allow poorly

managed governmental EMS agencies...

Dudley

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

> Mike,

>

> Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911 agencies

> are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911 are

> superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because as the

> government...they never have any level of service issues, customer

> complaints, or performance problems...

EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible to

the people they serve.

EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where applicable,

and not to the people being served.

It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is right

that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get less

and less.

Mike

January 1, 2006

Having operated in such a circumstance, I can tell you that EMS

agencies that contract with government bodies are responsible to the

performance contract they have signed first...because without that,

they cannot be responsive to their BOD, stockholders, etc.

Do you live in Austin? How much say do you have in their operations?

Can you call their admin up and get a change made because they answer

to you? Of course not...not anymore than you can at MetroCare or any

other private around where you work and live...

Just because the paycheck and budget say " City of XXXXXXX " doesn't make

the organization any more responsive to anyone...it is all about how

the organization is set up and how responsive the elected officials

are....which works the exact same way.

The same flaws that allow non-governmental EMS agencies to be in non-

or low- performance contracts are the same flaws that will allow poorly

managed governmental EMS agencies...

Dudley

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

> Mike,

>

> Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911 agencies

> are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911 are

> superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because as the

> government...they never have any level of service issues, customer

> complaints, or performance problems...

EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible to

the people they serve.

EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where applicable,

and not to the people being served.

It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is right

that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get less

and less.

Mike

January 1, 2006

Having operated in such a circumstance, I can tell you that EMS

agencies that contract with government bodies are responsible to the

performance contract they have signed first...because without that,

they cannot be responsive to their BOD, stockholders, etc.

Do you live in Austin? How much say do you have in their operations?

Can you call their admin up and get a change made because they answer

to you? Of course not...not anymore than you can at MetroCare or any

other private around where you work and live...

Just because the paycheck and budget say " City of XXXXXXX " doesn't make

the organization any more responsive to anyone...it is all about how

the organization is set up and how responsive the elected officials

are....which works the exact same way.

The same flaws that allow non-governmental EMS agencies to be in non-

or low- performance contracts are the same flaws that will allow poorly

managed governmental EMS agencies...

Dudley

Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

Porte

> Mike,

>

> Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911 agencies

> are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911 are

> superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because as the

> government...they never have any level of service issues, customer

> complaints, or performance problems...

EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible to

the people they serve.

EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where applicable,

and not to the people being served.

It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is right

that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get less

and less.

Mike

January 1, 2006

You hit the nail right on the head Dudley. Uvalde EMS is a non

profit EMS provider contracted to the City and County. Guess who I

have to be most responsible to, the governmental agencies. Trust me

any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have

to be profitable. Yes I also answer to my BOD and citizens that we

serve.

stephen stephens

> > Mike,

> >

> > Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> > services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911

agencies

> > are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911

are

> > superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because

as the

> > government...they never have any level of service issues,

customer

> > complaints, or performance problems...

>

> EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible

to

> the people they serve.

>

> EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

> respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where

applicable,

> and not to the people being served.

>

> It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is

right

> that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get

less

> and less.

>

> Mike

>

January 1, 2006

You hit the nail right on the head Dudley. Uvalde EMS is a non

profit EMS provider contracted to the City and County. Guess who I

have to be most responsible to, the governmental agencies. Trust me

any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have

to be profitable. Yes I also answer to my BOD and citizens that we

serve.

stephen stephens

> > Mike,

> >

> > Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> > services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911

agencies

> > are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911

are

> > superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because

as the

> > government...they never have any level of service issues,

customer

> > complaints, or performance problems...

>

> EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible

to

> the people they serve.

>

> EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

> respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where

applicable,

> and not to the people being served.

>

> It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is

right

> that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get

less

> and less.

>

> Mike

>

January 1, 2006

You hit the nail right on the head Dudley. Uvalde EMS is a non

profit EMS provider contracted to the City and County. Guess who I

have to be most responsible to, the governmental agencies. Trust me

any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have

to be profitable. Yes I also answer to my BOD and citizens that we

serve.

stephen stephens

> > Mike,

> >

> > Sorry...but you left the door open on this one. " This is why 911

> > services should be governmental " ...so all these municipal 911

agencies

> > are doing things perfect across the state and all municipal 911

are

> > superior to private performance contracted 911 agencies because

as the

> > government...they never have any level of service issues,

customer

> > complaints, or performance problems...

>

> EMS Operations run by units of government are directly responsible

to

> the people they serve.

>

> EMS Operations run by private corporations are responsible to their

> respective boards of directors and/or stockholders, where

applicable,

> and not to the people being served.

>

> It's about focus, not about who does what right where. Gene is

right

> that until people demand more from EMS, they'll continue to get

less

> and less.

>

> Mike

>

January 1, 2006

I have a question. Will this case allow for the ability to contest all city

ordinances that restrict EMS provision on city streets?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

January 1, 2006

I wouldn't think so.

To open this up would allow that challenges for ALL city ordinances.

building codes, food safety, any local licensing and permitting processes.

I do think that this will make permitting cities to look hard at their

enforcement policies (if they have them) to make certain that this type of

'enforcement' is restricted unless there is a clear threat or danger to the

public.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:15 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I have a question. Will this case allow for the ability to contest all city

ordinances that restrict EMS provision on city streets?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

January 1, 2006

Why do include ALL city ordinances? We are talking about one facit of

operation. Aren't we?

Jack Pitcock wrote: I wouldn't think so.

To open this up would allow that challenges for ALL city ordinances.

building codes, food safety, any local licensing and permitting processes.

I do think that this will make permitting cities to look hard at their

enforcement policies (if they have them) to make certain that this type of

'enforcement' is restricted unless there is a clear threat or danger to the

public.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:15 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I have a question. Will this case allow for the ability to contest all city

ordinances that restrict EMS provision on city streets?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

January 1, 2006

Why do include ALL city ordinances? We are talking about one facit of

operation. Aren't we?

Jack Pitcock wrote: I wouldn't think so.

To open this up would allow that challenges for ALL city ordinances.

building codes, food safety, any local licensing and permitting processes.

I do think that this will make permitting cities to look hard at their

enforcement policies (if they have them) to make certain that this type of

'enforcement' is restricted unless there is a clear threat or danger to the

public.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:15 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I have a question. Will this case allow for the ability to contest all city

ordinances that restrict EMS provision on city streets?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

January 1, 2006

Why do include ALL city ordinances? We are talking about one facit of

operation. Aren't we?

Jack Pitcock wrote: I wouldn't think so.

To open this up would allow that challenges for ALL city ordinances.

building codes, food safety, any local licensing and permitting processes.

I do think that this will make permitting cities to look hard at their

enforcement policies (if they have them) to make certain that this type of

'enforcement' is restricted unless there is a clear threat or danger to the

public.

Jack

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Danny

Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 10:15 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La Porte

I have a question. Will this case allow for the ability to contest all city

ordinances that restrict EMS provision on city streets?

Danny L.

Owner/NREMT-P

Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response

(PETSAR)

Office

Fax

January 1, 2006

For an anonymous moderator? I think not.

Mike

> If we are going to continue this debate ad nauseum, can we at least

> change the subject line?

>

> >

> > Been watching this one for a while...seems we might be talking

> about

> > semantics here...not aware of the definition for negligence saying

> you

> > had to receive a 911 call...I believe the plaintiff had to prove

> you

> > had a " duty to act " and that seems easy to prove if someone calls

> > (phone, cell phone, smoke signals,etc) and you say " I'll be

> there " .

> >

> > Maybe it was the electrician and he didn't show up and the house

> went

> > up in flames killing 2 kids...he didn't have a 911 call but can he

> be

> > sued for negligence? This one is above me...Wes??? Dearly

> departed

> > Gene???

> >

> > Dudley

> >

> > Re: Baystar medic arrested at scene in La

> Porte

> >

> > P.S. The way it was explained to me by the regional director

> for

> > DSHS

> > South was that if you received a call for an emergent call, and you

> > had a unit available, you had a duty to act even if you are a

> private

> > for proffit, and don't run regular 911. The only exception to the

> > rule is if you find another service to run the call for you

> > in " reasonable " time. It's one of those things that depending on

> who

> > you talk to, you get a different story.

> >

> > Later and god night,

> >

> > CB

> >

January 1, 2006

> Do you live in Austin? How much say do you have in their operations?

> Can you call their admin up and get a change made because they answer

> to you?

But I can call my city councilman, or I can speak (or email, being

Austin) to the assistant city manager in charge of public safety and

EMS. And yes, they are responsive to input. I don't get " my way, "

per se, because I don't directly run the service - but as a taxpayer

in Austin/ County, I get listened to, and EMS tends to listen to

those who fund them (my city councilman, county commissioner, etc.).

Mike

January 1, 2006

> Do you live in Austin? How much say do you have in their operations?

> Can you call their admin up and get a change made because they answer

> to you?

But I can call my city councilman, or I can speak (or email, being

Austin) to the assistant city manager in charge of public safety and

EMS. And yes, they are responsive to input. I don't get " my way, "

per se, because I don't directly run the service - but as a taxpayer

in Austin/ County, I get listened to, and EMS tends to listen to

those who fund them (my city councilman, county commissioner, etc.).

Mike

January 1, 2006

> any EMS, Public, Private, Volunteer all of them at some point have

> to be profitable.

Not true. Governments, by definition, run in the red. There may be

cost recovery, and ultimately it becomes a break-even challenge, but

not everyone has to profit. My streets department makes no profit,

yet it's inherently valuable to me to have good streets. Same with

EMS - I don't want them to focus on profit, I want them to focus on

the inherent value of providing good EMS. That's what I pay taxes for

- not so that EMS can trade value for a pristene financials sheet that

shows that organization running in the black. In fact, if that's the

case, I'd have to wonder if too much of my tax money isn't being spent

on management to get that service in the black, rather than patient

care and employee satisfaction that gives me better service in the

long run.

Mike

January 2, 2006

well said, mike.

jim davis

Mike wrote: On 1/1/06, sstephensmedic

wrote: