RE:

[Guest guest]

Who knows when she'll get tired of him? Forever is an awfully long time,

and I wouldn't think that much of anything lasts forever!!! LOL

Just personally speaking, if it were me (back in those awful days), or what

I see in my bp dtr., once she finally realizes he's pulling her down and may

be the reason she's living on the street, she will turn on him. Actually,

having him gone means she's out from under his constant influence and may

precipitate her moving on.

Don't be surprised however, if she chooses another just as nasty. Why?

Because her core issues remain unresolved.

Do what you can for the grandkids, and move on. You'll be much happier for

it.

Re:

And when exactly will she get tired of him? Or is this going to go on

forever? Will she balme him when she's living in the street?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

You never should have paid the back rent, friend or not, you should have

encourged your friend to file a lawsuit to collect that and the damanges....hind

sight is 20/20! but its your daughters responsibilty friend or no friend!

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

I was concerned because I was sure she would call me screaming about having

dirtbag picked up, but my son said she is so used to me not following thru on

anything, she probably doesn't even think I'm the one who called. MY son

thinks my daughter thinks I'm too stupid to ever do anything like this, since

I

have always been the idiot who rescued her no matter what she did to me.

And I agree with Kelley; she is probably very busy now trying to plan a way

to get him released. No matter how much of her money (that should be paying

the bills) it takes. After all, Mom will just replenish it when it's gone,

right???? WRONG!!!!!!!!!

I remembered a few years ago, when was about a yr old, my friend who

had been renting an apartment in a 3 unit she owned, called me to tell

me had skipped out without paying her that month' s rent and had also

trashed the apartment. Let's see, she was 26 then. I had to end up paying my

friend the rent and her ins covered the damage. I hadn't heard from

in about a month and then like nothing at all had happened, I got a call

from her telling me 's father was in jail and she had no one to watch

while she worked and would I. I wasn't too close to at the

time,

didn't see him often and had not really bonded with him yet, but I agreed to

babysit. She never made any reference to the apt situation and when I asked

her

why she didn't pay the last month's rent and why she damamged the apt she

told me my friend was lying. I didn't beliee her, but didn't feel like arguing

with her.

I just find it so odd, that they can act like nothing has happened and then

ask for a favor or money or whatever after having blown us off previously.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Gotta agree with Kelley; HOWEVER, I realize that would be very hard to do,

as you must have felt a responsibility as the lady was your friend, and you

wanted to preserve that friendship. Hard situation.

Re:

Jean

You never should have paid the back rent, friend or not, you should have

encourged your friend to file a lawsuit to collect that and the

damanges....hind sight is 20/20! but its your daughters responsibilty friend

or no friend!

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

I was concerned because I was sure she would call me screaming about

having

dirtbag picked up, but my son said she is so used to me not following thru

on

anything, she probably doesn't even think I'm the one who called. MY son

thinks my daughter thinks I'm too stupid to ever do anything like this,

since I

have always been the idiot who rescued her no matter what she did to me.

And I agree with Kelley; she is probably very busy now trying to plan a

way

to get him released. No matter how much of her money (that should be

paying

the bills) it takes. After all, Mom will just replenish it when it's gone,

right???? WRONG!!!!!!!!!

I remembered a few years ago, when was about a yr old, my friend

who

had been renting an apartment in a 3 unit she owned, called me to

tell

me had skipped out without paying her that month' s rent and had

also

trashed the apartment. Let's see, she was 26 then. I had to end up

paying my

friend the rent and her ins covered the damage. I hadn't heard from

in about a month and then like nothing at all had happened, I got a call

from her telling me 's father was in jail and she had no one to

watch

while she worked and would I. I wasn't too close to at the

time,

didn't see him often and had not really bonded with him yet, but I agreed

to

babysit. She never made any reference to the apt situation and when I

asked her

why she didn't pay the last month's rent and why she damamged the apt she

told me my friend was lying. I didn't beliee her, but didn't feel like

arguing

with her.

I just find it so odd, that they can act like nothing has happened and

then

ask for a favor or money or whatever after having blown us off previously.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I went to my office today to turn all the listing paperwork and to pick up

mail that had been there. Since my daughter had worked with me up until all

this with dirtbag started and I told her she was on her own, we had shared a

mailbox there for inter office mail. When I went in, I decided it was time to

separate the mail, so I tactfully asked if perhaps and I could have

differnt mail slots since I don't go in that often (I work out of my home

office),

the slot gets really stuffed. The secretary said that called last

week to say she was not talking to me and didn't want to share a mail slot with

me. The secretary said she was a real B---- about it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

LOL thats why I said in hind site....now you ahve learned a valuable lesson!

You are getting there!

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

Kelley

That was 5 years ago that I paid the owed rent. I haven't been THAT stupid

in a while. And thanks to this group I will not be stupid at all in the

future. In fact I'm looking forward to saying " No, sorry I cannot help you " .

Jean

[Guest guest]

Why? Why? Does she feel it is necessary to air her dirty laundry in

public? If I got started it wouldn't be me who would look like the idiot. What

does she gain by doing this? Wouldn't she just be compromising herself with

the other agents? Doesn't she think about integrity or trust, that people might

not want to work with someone who is married to a con and that she looks like

she has a few screws loose for being in a relationship with someone like

that?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

It is a group or realtors in the office. Some of us are on the 100% plan,

where we pay a monthly fee and keep the whole commission. Others are on the

conventional 50/50 split.

She is on the split, so when she makes a commission, the company gets 1/2 of

it. But she hasn't sold anything in over 5 months. She used to work for me

and I paid her fees and I paid her. She would work with buyers who called on my

listings. She was doing well, until last spring when she hooked up with him

and went to Las Vegas for almost 1 month and then just didn't work after that.

Since last JUne, she has sold 1 house, which is why she had to go back to

waitressing and then I subsidized her so she could make the mortgage payments,

because she told me dirtbag wasn't coming back, that she was thru with him.

She lied threw her teeth to get me to pay the mortgage. ANd I didn't want the

kids living in a bad neighborhood.

Jean

[Guest guest]

She's getting close. They won't " carry " her much longer. And since it's

pointless to give her my buyers, whom she does nothing for when she is in one of

these downward spirals, she'll have no way of making money. In this type of

real estate office, there is no conventional " phone time " so she has no way to

get buyers, unless she manages to get a listing, advertises it and secures

potential buyers from that. But real estate takes a lot of effort and follow

thru. And believe me, when there is no dirt bag in her life she can be GOOD at

this business, but when she is with one of them, she seems to deteriorate to

such a point that she can do nothing right.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I have been thinking that understanding this disease really won't and can't

make any difference. Whether it's the disease that makes her act this way or

just her acting this way, the bottom line is the same. I realize that I can

NEVER have a relationship with my daughter. I will never allow myself to trust

her or anything she says again. When I see what many of you write about

believing the opposite of what your bps tell you, that's no way to have a

relationship.

I want a daughter I can trust. In any relationship, being able to trust the

oerson is paramount. I will never be able to with her, so there can be no

relationship. I guess I need to mourn for the death of any relationship also.

Basically, I have no daughter. She is just some bizarre stranger. What is it

that most of you are hanging onto with your daughters?

Mine is obviously a body with no soul, no essence, she's just there-----but

not.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Let it slide--my bp is notorious for getting people to believe all sorts of

crazy things about me. Your secretary will see the truth given enough time.

Re:

I went to my office today to turn all the listing paperwork and to pick up

mail that had been there. Since my daughter had worked with me up until all

this with dirtbag started and I told her she was on her own, we had shared

a

mailbox there for inter office mail. When I went in, I decided it was time

to

separate the mail, so I tactfully asked if perhaps and I could have

differnt mail slots since I don't go in that often (I work out of my home

office),

the slot gets really stuffed. The secretary said that called last

week to say she was not talking to me and didn't want to share a mail slot

with

me. The secretary said she was a real B---- about it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

If it is your office and she doesnt pay rent why shoud she even have a mail

slot?

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

I went to my office today to turn all the listing paperwork and to pick up

mail that had been there. Since my daughter had worked with me up until all

this with dirtbag started and I told her she was on her own, we had shared a

mailbox there for inter office mail. When I went in, I decided it was time to

separate the mail, so I tactfully asked if perhaps and I could have

differnt mail slots since I don't go in that often (I work out of my home

office),

the slot gets really stuffed. The secretary said that called last

week to say she was not talking to me and didn't want to share a mail slot

with

me. The secretary said she was a real B---- about it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

She thinks if she tells others what she's going through it will do something

for her: mainly, make her look " good " because you're so bad, supposedly. I

seriously doubt that she even connects it with personal integrity because

bp's compartmentalize everything. The compartment that her " work " is in, is

separate from how she views her personal integrity.

It is complicated, and there are so many nuances to bp I'd really suggest

you buy as many books as you can read in order to better understand your

dtr's illness. If you do, you will find that things are easier to

understand . . . and easier to forgive. I think getting educated will also

be greatly instrumental in helping you move on in your own personal life.

I to have to tell you that when I struggled with bp, telling other people

what I was going through, especially my parents, was almost a compulsion. I

had to really struggle NOT to do that! I don't know if it was because I

wanted their approval so badly, or what, but when I told them what was going

on, I ALWAYS lied to make myself look better.

[Guest guest]

No

She thinks she is making people think badly about you, but she isnt. The

quieter you are the better you are. These people are allready telling you she

is being a bitch or bitchy so you know what they are thinking of what she is

telling. This is called a degradation campaign in books like SWOE, and it is

very common

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

Why? Why? Does she feel it is necessary to air her dirty laundry in

public? If I got started it wouldn't be me who would look like the idiot.

What

does she gain by doing this? Wouldn't she just be compromising herself with

the other agents? Doesn't she think about integrity or trust, that people

might

not want to work with someone who is married to a con and that she looks like

she has a few screws loose for being in a relationship with someone like

that?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Ahhh I see, is there some time limit to use the place as an office without a

sale?

Kelley

Re:

Kelley

It is a group or realtors in the office. Some of us are on the 100% plan,

where we pay a monthly fee and keep the whole commission. Others are on the

conventional 50/50 split.

She is on the split, so when she makes a commission, the company gets 1/2 of

it. But she hasn't sold anything in over 5 months. She used to work for me

and I paid her fees and I paid her. She would work with buyers who called on

my

listings. She was doing well, until last spring when she hooked up with him

and went to Las Vegas for almost 1 month and then just didn't work after that.

Since last JUne, she has sold 1 house, which is why she had to go back to

waitressing and then I subsidized her so she could make the mortgage payments,

because she told me dirtbag wasn't coming back, that she was thru with him.

She lied threw her teeth to get me to pay the mortgage. ANd I didn't want the

kids living in a bad neighborhood.

Jean

[Guest guest]

The reason I urge you to learn as much as you can about the disease is NOT

so you can hope more that she will change, but so that you can understand

better what is happening to YOU, and how she affects your actions and

emotions.

Whether she ever changes or not, whether you ever have a relationship with

her or not, is not the point, and at this point is moot.

Learning what you can gives YOU a measure of peace, and the ability to break

away graceful, and put to rest some of the anger and bitterness you feel.

What if your child was autistic? Wouldn't you want to learn more about the

disease? Yes, learning would help the child, but even more than that, it

would help YOU because you could understand better where the behavior is

coming from and not take is so personally.

Although it may be difficult to see it now, I don't believe your dtr's

behavior toward you is personal. Wait, wait! Before you huff up, listen!

Bp is all--like almost 100%--about themselves. And if you never understand

anything else about the disease, understand that and all the ramifications

of that. The revelation of that single fact can give you much peace and

help you let go of your obsession with being involved in her life.

Re:

I have been thinking that understanding this disease really won't and can't

make any difference. Whether it's the disease that makes her act this way

or

just her acting this way, the bottom line is the same. I realize that I can

NEVER have a relationship with my daughter. I will never allow myself to

trust

her or anything she says again. When I see what many of you write about

believing the opposite of what your bps tell you, that's no way to have a

relationship.

I want a daughter I can trust. In any relationship, being able to trust the

oerson is paramount. I will never be able to with her, so there can be no

relationship. I guess I need to mourn for the death of any relationship

also.

Basically, I have no daughter. She is just some bizarre stranger. What is

it

that most of you are hanging onto with your daughters?

Mine is obviously a body with no soul, no essence, she's just there-----but

not.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hope

Jan

Re:

>

> I have been thinking that understanding this disease really won't and

can't

> make any difference. Whether it's the disease that makes her act this way

or

> just her acting this way, the bottom line is the same. I realize that I

can

> NEVER have a relationship with my daughter. I will never allow myself to

trust

> her or anything she says again. When I see what many of you write about

> believing the opposite of what your bps tell you, that's no way to have a

> relationship.

>

> I want a daughter I can trust. In any relationship, being able to trust

the

> oerson is paramount. I will never be able to with her, so there can be no

> relationship. I guess I need to mourn for the death of any relationship

also.

> Basically, I have no daughter. She is just some bizarre stranger. What

is it

> that most of you are hanging onto with your daughters?

> Mine is obviously a body with no soul, no essence, she's just

there-----but

> not.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My situation with my daughter is no different than yours, mine is 18, and

I feel as you do, that I have lost the little girl I once knew, and have

lost the relationship that we did have. What we hang onto is the HOPE that we

will get them back, someday, somewhere.

There are those days when all is well, she is the person I once knew, so we

see this glimmer of hope. But its just the game, and you get caught in the

moment. That's all.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

You are obviosly a religious person. I lost my faith because of this

situation and it wasn't all that strong in the first place. All during my

daughter's

entanglement with the ghetto people and more specifically the father of the

boys, I used to pray and pray for her safety and her return to sanity and her

health during her pregnancies. During the three to four yr period when she was

seemingly back to normal, I would thank God each and every night in my prayers

for having brought her back to me.

And then last Spring when it started all over again, I thought it was some

joke God was playing on me. That I had given thanks over and over again, and

HIS response was to have it all come crashing down again.

So, this is why I feel God has turned a deaf ear to me and any prayers I

might have.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I think it is wonderful that your daughter gave you that glimmer of hope. I

know that's how I felt when was back to " normal " for that extended

period. It was so wonderful, and peaceful.

I hope you get to see more good moments with your daughter. I know how much

you love her.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

I do agree with about learning about this. It gives you the peace of mind

to validate your own feelings on whats happening!

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

I have been thinking that understanding this disease really won't and can't

make any difference. Whether it's the disease that makes her act this way

or

just her acting this way, the bottom line is the same. I realize that I can

NEVER have a relationship with my daughter. I will never allow myself to

trust

her or anything she says again. When I see what many of you write about

believing the opposite of what your bps tell you, that's no way to have a

relationship.

I want a daughter I can trust. In any relationship, being able to trust the

oerson is paramount. I will never be able to with her, so there can be no

relationship. I guess I need to mourn for the death of any relationship

also.

Basically, I have no daughter. She is just some bizarre stranger. What is

it

that most of you are hanging onto with your daughters?

Mine is obviously a body with no soul, no essence, she's just there-----but

not.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Friends--

Ah, speaking of glimmers of light in the night . . . my husband, non-bp dtr

and I were eating at a local steak house last night, when my husband's cell

phone rang.

It was our bp dtr, calling from work during a slow period.

I braced myself, wondering what she was going to hit me up for this time.

But, amazingly enough, she just called to chat!! She didn't drop any of

those little tiny bits and pieces of things that are guaranteed to stir one

up; she didn't ask for money; she didn't ask for food, for laundry

detergent--she just wanted to talk!

After I crawled back into my chair off the floor, I just enjoyed the moment.

It might be months before that ever happens again, but it is moments like

these (among other things) that continue to give me hope for her recovery.

Re:

My situation with my daughter is no different than yours, mine is 18,

and

I feel as you do, that I have lost the little girl I once knew, and have

lost the relationship that we did have. What we hang onto is the HOPE that

we

will get them back, someday, somewhere.

There are those days when all is well, she is the person I once knew, so we

see this glimmer of hope. But its just the game, and you get caught in the

moment. That's all.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Actually, I don't particularly care to think of myself as a " religious "

person; rather, am simply a person who has a personal faith. To me,

" religious " means something affected and contrived.

Perhaps at some point in the future, you may rediscover your own personal

faith. Throughout history, many have not seen the hand of God in what

happens. That doesn't make Him any less real.

I have personally found my faith to be a source of strength, peace and

inspiration, and gives me courage to face whatever life deals me in the

future.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I hope I get to see more of this, too, but I'm not expecting

it. Tomorrow, she may call and cuss me out.

I take what I can, when I can. Such is the disease . . .

Re:

I think it is wonderful that your daughter gave you that glimmer of hope. I

know that's how I felt when was back to " normal " for that extended

period. It was so wonderful, and peaceful.

I hope you get to see more good moments with your daughter. I know how much

you love her.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Woo hoo aren't those moments of sanity soooo nice!

Hugs

Kelley

Re:

My situation with my daughter is no different than yours, mine is 18,

and

I feel as you do, that I have lost the little girl I once knew, and have

lost the relationship that we did have. What we hang onto is the HOPE that

we

will get them back, someday, somewhere.

There are those days when all is well, she is the person I once knew, so we

see this glimmer of hope. But its just the game, and you get caught in the

moment. That's all.

Debbie

[Guest guest]

,

The same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. The phone rang at work and

it was my daughter (which usually gives me a sinking sensation in the pit of

my stomach) and I was thinking " what crisis is it now? " She just called to

see how I was feeling because I had been sick over the week end with a cold!

She just called to talk! She ended the call by saying, " I love you, Mom "

That simple thing meant the world to me! That's why we put up with all the

crap and drama, because of these small break throughs! The things that make

us never give up hope!

Jan

Re:

>

>

>

> My situation with my daughter is no different than yours, mine is 18,

> and

> I feel as you do, that I have lost the little girl I once knew, and have

> lost the relationship that we did have. What we hang onto is the HOPE

that

> we

> will get them back, someday, somewhere.

> There are those days when all is well, she is the person I once knew, so

we

>

> see this glimmer of hope. But its just the game, and you get caught in

the

>

> moment. That's all.

> Debbie

>

>

>