Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 > ... please help me get off this mailing list... It's not that easy. FIRST you have to admit that you're powerless over mailing lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 > ... please help me get off this mailing list... It's not that easy. FIRST you have to admit that you're powerless over mailing lists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 1999 Report Share Posted September 19, 1999 The name of the group is 12-STEP-FREE.... GET IT????? whamm6747-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8114 > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? > I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. > Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. > peace Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 hello everyone, i made a mistake i feel in suggesting that the godhates fags web site was funny. i don't think that gay bashing is funny. i'm not making fun of gays. i was poking fun at the christians who have a web site dedicated to gay bashing. there is nothing funny about that. i made a mistake. that was poor judgement on my part and i appologize for that. It would be nice if everyone respected everyone elses religion. However, i don't feel a need to respect the people who pistol whipped and left little Mathew Shepard to die. I don't feel a need to respect the people who chose to show up at his funeral holding signs that say god hates fags. I do feel i need to discredit them, criticize them, and condemn them. i don't appologize for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there is a moderator, is there not? Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial email after subscribing: /info/help.html Peace to you, Ed. Judith > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. > peace Ed ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 At 10:03 PM 19/09/99 EDT, you wrote: >Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the >people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over >other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? >I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from >drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at >alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate >groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. >Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. >peace Ed 1] Your first sentence doesn't make sense, and your punctuation and spelling aren't helping you. 2] Why exactly should one of us " get you off this maiing list " ? You got yourself on it. How well does this infantile demand fit with your suggestion that we " grow up " ? 3] What's your point? Joe Berenbaum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 At 10:03 PM 19/09/99 EDT, you wrote: >Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the >people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over >other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? >I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from >drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at >alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate >groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. >Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. >peace Ed 1] Your first sentence doesn't make sense, and your punctuation and spelling aren't helping you. 2] Why exactly should one of us " get you off this maiing list " ? You got yourself on it. How well does this infantile demand fit with your suggestion that we " grow up " ? 3] What's your point? Joe Berenbaum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 Unfortunately, a lot of people DO think that site is a joke! My apologies if I came down hard on you--I honestly didn't think you were in agreement with them, but I sent off the reply a bit too abruptly al the same. I live in a town that likes to think of itself as a nice, liberal college town, but there's a lot of Christian Identity and other extreme hate groups working in the area. The juxtaposition of " funny sites " and " godhatesfags.com " hit a nerve... ---. jero19991-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8118 > hello everyone, i made a mistake i feel in suggesting that the godhates fags > web site was funny. i don't think that gay bashing is funny. i'm not making > fun of gays. i was poking fun at the christians who have a web site dedicated > to gay bashing. there is nothing funny about that. i made a mistake. that was > poor judgement on my part and i appologize for that. It would be nice if > everyone respected everyone elses religion. However, i don't feel a need to > respect the people who pistol whipped and left little Mathew Shepard to die. > I don't feel a need to respect the people who chose to show up at his funeral > holding signs that say god hates fags. I do feel i need to discredit them, > criticize them, and condemn them. i don't appologize for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 whamm6747-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8114 > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? > I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. > Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. > peace Ed Ed, I agree that just bashing AA isn't enough, but a lot of people have been forced to accept AA over the years and have been harmed by it; I think it's therapeutic for them to finally be able to express their anger at being sold a bill of goods. Those who've been coerced into accepting the 12-step doctrine have the right to hear the other side, which they're certainly not getting now. As for blaming, what's more irresponsible than blaming all your problems on a nonexistent disease? Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 whamm6747-@... wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=8114 > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' ? > I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. > Grow up and stop blaming the world for you problems. > peace Ed Ed, I agree that just bashing AA isn't enough, but a lot of people have been forced to accept AA over the years and have been harmed by it; I think it's therapeutic for them to finally be able to express their anger at being sold a bill of goods. Those who've been coerced into accepting the 12-step doctrine have the right to hear the other side, which they're certainly not getting now. As for blaming, what's more irresponsible than blaming all your problems on a nonexistent disease? Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 1999 Report Share Posted September 20, 1999 thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Wow. I trust people to be honest about their intentions. I know that's idealistic and lots of people are uncertain themselves about what motivates them. But I get the impression that this whole thing is a joke to you. My response was NOT a joke. I really, truly would like to hear something other than criticism from you, because I think you probably have some very valuable insights. But I can't hear them until you talk about them. For what it's worth, I question my own anger about AA. In my situation AA was clearly destructive, but it was also a long time ago. Your post made me re-evaluate my feelings. After evaluation, I came to the conclusion that my anger is indeed valid. Chemical dependency/ addiction is overdiagnosed, AA is overprescribed. So the next step, after recognizing and evaluating my anger, is to rechannel the energy I put into feeling bad, into positive work to realize my goal of providing alternatives to AA. I accept my anger. I am grateful for the gift of anger, that allows me to be aware that I have a problem that needs to be addressed. You can leave if you want. Maybe you are just a stepper in 12 step free clothing. But I am holding out that hope against hope that you actually want to be here, that you actually believe in thinking for yourself and being true to your own values. Judith > LOL ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Wow. I trust people to be honest about their intentions. I know that's idealistic and lots of people are uncertain themselves about what motivates them. But I get the impression that this whole thing is a joke to you. My response was NOT a joke. I really, truly would like to hear something other than criticism from you, because I think you probably have some very valuable insights. But I can't hear them until you talk about them. For what it's worth, I question my own anger about AA. In my situation AA was clearly destructive, but it was also a long time ago. Your post made me re-evaluate my feelings. After evaluation, I came to the conclusion that my anger is indeed valid. Chemical dependency/ addiction is overdiagnosed, AA is overprescribed. So the next step, after recognizing and evaluating my anger, is to rechannel the energy I put into feeling bad, into positive work to realize my goal of providing alternatives to AA. I accept my anger. I am grateful for the gift of anger, that allows me to be aware that I have a problem that needs to be addressed. You can leave if you want. Maybe you are just a stepper in 12 step free clothing. But I am holding out that hope against hope that you actually want to be here, that you actually believe in thinking for yourself and being true to your own values. Judith > LOL ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Wow. I trust people to be honest about their intentions. I know that's idealistic and lots of people are uncertain themselves about what motivates them. But I get the impression that this whole thing is a joke to you. My response was NOT a joke. I really, truly would like to hear something other than criticism from you, because I think you probably have some very valuable insights. But I can't hear them until you talk about them. For what it's worth, I question my own anger about AA. In my situation AA was clearly destructive, but it was also a long time ago. Your post made me re-evaluate my feelings. After evaluation, I came to the conclusion that my anger is indeed valid. Chemical dependency/ addiction is overdiagnosed, AA is overprescribed. So the next step, after recognizing and evaluating my anger, is to rechannel the energy I put into feeling bad, into positive work to realize my goal of providing alternatives to AA. I accept my anger. I am grateful for the gift of anger, that allows me to be aware that I have a problem that needs to be addressed. You can leave if you want. Maybe you are just a stepper in 12 step free clothing. But I am holding out that hope against hope that you actually want to be here, that you actually believe in thinking for yourself and being true to your own values. Judith > LOL ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 I've had some time to think about this post, and why I felt so disturbed and defensive after reading it. This group has been the first place I have been allowed to even begin to express my reservations with 12 step groups without fear of being ostrasized, rejected, demeaned, or threatened. It's really the first safe place I have felt comfortable with even having the " audacity " to question concepts that were given to me as " gospel " . Yeah, I am angry. I think that anger is relative to amount of coersion I experienced when I was presented with " the solution " . Someone could argue that there are different options for recovering, and that I was free to just make a choice and " get a life " . I don't think it is that simple. For the majority of us here in this group- those choices weren't offered with an open hand. If someone held out 3 choices....A, B, and C - and you knew that if you chose A that person would approve, and if you chose one of the others they had a big stick behind thier back to hit you over the head with....now would that really seem like a choice? How many times have we all heard...oh you are free to leave, but be told to do so would mean jails, institutiuons and death to bring up a popular phrase. How are people described who don't think the 12 steps are some kind of sacred thing? Incapable of being honest, in denial, looking for an excuse to drink or use, on a dry-drunk, just to name a few. Than there is my background. I keep thinking of a small child in a crazy alcoholic family who is told " If you don't like it there's the door " or " You would be nowhere without me " . I think anger is a common reaction for people who have left 12 step groups. I also think it is a critical process for people after they leave. How else do you work out those conflicts? I don't do it with people whose choice is the 12 steps. I do it here in this group. The venting and joking has been a very healthy way for me to let off steam. I'm glad this group has been here for me. It's been like free therapy. I've gotten my sense of humor back. Rebekah ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 I've had some time to think about this post, and why I felt so disturbed and defensive after reading it. This group has been the first place I have been allowed to even begin to express my reservations with 12 step groups without fear of being ostrasized, rejected, demeaned, or threatened. It's really the first safe place I have felt comfortable with even having the " audacity " to question concepts that were given to me as " gospel " . Yeah, I am angry. I think that anger is relative to amount of coersion I experienced when I was presented with " the solution " . Someone could argue that there are different options for recovering, and that I was free to just make a choice and " get a life " . I don't think it is that simple. For the majority of us here in this group- those choices weren't offered with an open hand. If someone held out 3 choices....A, B, and C - and you knew that if you chose A that person would approve, and if you chose one of the others they had a big stick behind thier back to hit you over the head with....now would that really seem like a choice? How many times have we all heard...oh you are free to leave, but be told to do so would mean jails, institutiuons and death to bring up a popular phrase. How are people described who don't think the 12 steps are some kind of sacred thing? Incapable of being honest, in denial, looking for an excuse to drink or use, on a dry-drunk, just to name a few. Than there is my background. I keep thinking of a small child in a crazy alcoholic family who is told " If you don't like it there's the door " or " You would be nowhere without me " . I think anger is a common reaction for people who have left 12 step groups. I also think it is a critical process for people after they leave. How else do you work out those conflicts? I don't do it with people whose choice is the 12 steps. I do it here in this group. The venting and joking has been a very healthy way for me to let off steam. I'm glad this group has been here for me. It's been like free therapy. I've gotten my sense of humor back. Rebekah ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ " Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself from one place to another. " (from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< WATER IS LIFE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 I don't take what you wrote personally at all, gary. But I'd like to clarify a couple of things. First, you say, " This was a response to someone, maybe me. " I've quoted your post, which included my post along with the original post I was responding to (from WHamm67471@... who signed his name Ed). I was responding directly to him. Not to you or anyone else. Second, you say " Dont get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another group to go to. " Then please don't go! Again, unless you're the original poster, I wasn't talking to you. By the way, the steps didn't work for me, and I walked away. I talk about it here, which works pretty well for me. Best of luck to you--Judith > please dont take this personallym i have nothing against you or what your going > through but you wrote to ?? " do you have anything to offer besides criticism of > what others post, how about sharing some ideas about staying drugs free without > the steps " . This was a response to someone, maybe me. This struck me as so funny > because most of the posts i have looked at are criticisms of the 12 steps? Dont > get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from > my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another > group to go to. > > Xgrouper > > Xgrouper > > > > > Judith Stillwater wrote: > > > I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer > > besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about > > staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? > > > > In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with > > AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there > > is a moderator, is there not? > > > > Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for > > unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial > > email after subscribing: > > > > /info/help.html > > > > Peace to you, Ed. > > > > Judith > > > > > > > > > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' > > ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and > > stop blaming the world for you problems. > > > peace Ed ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 I don't take what you wrote personally at all, gary. But I'd like to clarify a couple of things. First, you say, " This was a response to someone, maybe me. " I've quoted your post, which included my post along with the original post I was responding to (from WHamm67471@... who signed his name Ed). I was responding directly to him. Not to you or anyone else. Second, you say " Dont get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another group to go to. " Then please don't go! Again, unless you're the original poster, I wasn't talking to you. By the way, the steps didn't work for me, and I walked away. I talk about it here, which works pretty well for me. Best of luck to you--Judith > please dont take this personallym i have nothing against you or what your going > through but you wrote to ?? " do you have anything to offer besides criticism of > what others post, how about sharing some ideas about staying drugs free without > the steps " . This was a response to someone, maybe me. This struck me as so funny > because most of the posts i have looked at are criticisms of the 12 steps? Dont > get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from > my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another > group to go to. > > Xgrouper > > Xgrouper > > > > > Judith Stillwater wrote: > > > I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer > > besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about > > staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? > > > > In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with > > AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there > > is a moderator, is there not? > > > > Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for > > unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial > > email after subscribing: > > > > /info/help.html > > > > Peace to you, Ed. > > > > Judith > > > > > > > > > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' > > ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and > > stop blaming the world for you problems. > > > peace Ed ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 please dont take this personallym i have nothing against you or what your going through but you wrote to ?? " do you have anything to offer besides criticism of what others post, how about sharing some ideas about staying drugs free without the steps " . This was a response to someone, maybe me. This struck me as so funny because most of the posts i have looked at are criticisms of the 12 steps? Dont get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another group to go to. Xgrouper Xgrouper Judith Stillwater wrote: > I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer > besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about > staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? > > In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with > AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there > is a moderator, is there not? > > Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for > unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial > email after subscribing: > > /info/help.html > > Peace to you, Ed. > > Judith > > > > > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' > ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and > stop blaming the world for you problems. > > peace Ed > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 please dont take this personallym i have nothing against you or what your going through but you wrote to ?? " do you have anything to offer besides criticism of what others post, how about sharing some ideas about staying drugs free without the steps " . This was a response to someone, maybe me. This struck me as so funny because most of the posts i have looked at are criticisms of the 12 steps? Dont get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another group to go to. Xgrouper Xgrouper Judith Stillwater wrote: > I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer > besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about > staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? > > In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with > AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there > is a moderator, is there not? > > Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for > unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial > email after subscribing: > > /info/help.html > > Peace to you, Ed. > > Judith > > > > > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' > ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and > stop blaming the world for you problems. > > peace Ed > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 please dont take this personallym i have nothing against you or what your going through but you wrote to ?? " do you have anything to offer besides criticism of what others post, how about sharing some ideas about staying drugs free without the steps " . This was a response to someone, maybe me. This struck me as so funny because most of the posts i have looked at are criticisms of the 12 steps? Dont get me wrong, i dont use the 12 steps for recovery or to take my focus away from my recovery. If the 12 steps dont work, walk away. What we dont need is another group to go to. Xgrouper Xgrouper Judith Stillwater wrote: > I don't believe I've seen your name before. Do you have anything to offer > besides criticism of what others post? How about sharing some insight about > staying drug and alcohol free without the steps? > > In defense of my own posts about my anger and pain after my experience with > AA, well, they help me. If my posts fall outside acceptable guidelines there > is a moderator, is there not? > > Re: helping you get off the list. I don't have instructions for > unsubscribing, but here is the egroups general help URL from my initial > email after subscribing: > > /info/help.html > > Peace to you, Ed. > > Judith > > > > > Get a life,(this is addressed to any who it may apply) are the rest of the > people who belong to this group filled with hate, and condemnation over > other's beliefs that that over look the hate the spews out of there mouths' > ? I thought this was group that looked at other ways of staying free from > drugs. IF this group is about bashing 12 step groups instead of looking at > alternatives please help me get off this mailing list. There are enough hate > groups in the world I have no wish to be part of any of them. Grow up and > stop blaming the world for you problems. > > peace Ed > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Bekerah, Couldn't have said it better! You go girlfriend. Re: am i talking about you ? > > > I've had some time to think about this post, and why I felt so >disturbed and defensive after reading it. This group has been the first >place I have been allowed to even begin to express my reservations with 12 >step groups without fear of being ostrasized, rejected, demeaned, or >threatened. It's really the first safe place I have felt comfortable with >even having the " audacity " >to question concepts that were given to me as " gospel " . Yeah, I am angry. >I think that anger is relative to amount of coersion I experienced when I >was presented with " the solution " . > > Someone could argue that there are different options for recovering, >and that I was free to just make a choice and " get a life " . I don't think >it is that simple. For the majority of us here in this group- those >choices weren't offered with an open hand. If someone held out 3 >choices....A, B, and C - and you knew that if you chose A that person would >approve, and if you chose one of the others they had a big stick behind >thier back to hit you over the head with....now would that really seem like >a choice? How many times have we all heard...oh you are free to leave, but >be told to do so would mean jails, institutiuons and death to bring up a >popular phrase. How are people described who don't think the 12 steps are >some kind of sacred thing? Incapable of being honest, in denial, looking >for an excuse to drink or use, on a dry-drunk, just to name a few. > > Than there is my background. I keep thinking of a small child in a >crazy alcoholic family who is told " If you don't like it there's the door " >or " You would be nowhere without me " . > > I think anger is a common reaction for people who have left 12 step >groups. I also think it is a critical process for people after they leave. >How else do you work out those conflicts? I don't do it with people whose >choice is the 12 steps. I do it here in this group. The venting and joking >has been a very healthy way for me to let off steam. I'm glad this group >has been here for me. It's been like free therapy. I've gotten my sense of >humor back. Rebekah > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > >(from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service. Protect your files before >you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL >today. http://clickhere./click/938 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Bekerah, Couldn't have said it better! You go girlfriend. Re: am i talking about you ? > > > I've had some time to think about this post, and why I felt so >disturbed and defensive after reading it. This group has been the first >place I have been allowed to even begin to express my reservations with 12 >step groups without fear of being ostrasized, rejected, demeaned, or >threatened. It's really the first safe place I have felt comfortable with >even having the " audacity " >to question concepts that were given to me as " gospel " . Yeah, I am angry. >I think that anger is relative to amount of coersion I experienced when I >was presented with " the solution " . > > Someone could argue that there are different options for recovering, >and that I was free to just make a choice and " get a life " . I don't think >it is that simple. For the majority of us here in this group- those >choices weren't offered with an open hand. If someone held out 3 >choices....A, B, and C - and you knew that if you chose A that person would >approve, and if you chose one of the others they had a big stick behind >thier back to hit you over the head with....now would that really seem like >a choice? How many times have we all heard...oh you are free to leave, but >be told to do so would mean jails, institutiuons and death to bring up a >popular phrase. How are people described who don't think the 12 steps are >some kind of sacred thing? Incapable of being honest, in denial, looking >for an excuse to drink or use, on a dry-drunk, just to name a few. > > Than there is my background. I keep thinking of a small child in a >crazy alcoholic family who is told " If you don't like it there's the door " >or " You would be nowhere without me " . > > I think anger is a common reaction for people who have left 12 step >groups. I also think it is a critical process for people after they leave. >How else do you work out those conflicts? I don't do it with people whose >choice is the 12 steps. I do it here in this group. The venting and joking >has been a very healthy way for me to let off steam. I'm glad this group >has been here for me. It's been like free therapy. I've gotten my sense of >humor back. Rebekah > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > >(from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service. Protect your files before >you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL >today. http://clickhere./click/938 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 1999 Report Share Posted September 21, 1999 Bekerah, Couldn't have said it better! You go girlfriend. Re: am i talking about you ? > > > I've had some time to think about this post, and why I felt so >disturbed and defensive after reading it. This group has been the first >place I have been allowed to even begin to express my reservations with 12 >step groups without fear of being ostrasized, rejected, demeaned, or >threatened. It's really the first safe place I have felt comfortable with >even having the " audacity " >to question concepts that were given to me as " gospel " . Yeah, I am angry. >I think that anger is relative to amount of coersion I experienced when I >was presented with " the solution " . > > Someone could argue that there are different options for recovering, >and that I was free to just make a choice and " get a life " . I don't think >it is that simple. For the majority of us here in this group- those >choices weren't offered with an open hand. If someone held out 3 >choices....A, B, and C - and you knew that if you chose A that person would >approve, and if you chose one of the others they had a big stick behind >thier back to hit you over the head with....now would that really seem like >a choice? How many times have we all heard...oh you are free to leave, but >be told to do so would mean jails, institutiuons and death to bring up a >popular phrase. How are people described who don't think the 12 steps are >some kind of sacred thing? Incapable of being honest, in denial, looking >for an excuse to drink or use, on a dry-drunk, just to name a few. > > Than there is my background. I keep thinking of a small child in a >crazy alcoholic family who is told " If you don't like it there's the door " >or " You would be nowhere without me " . > > I think anger is a common reaction for people who have left 12 step >groups. I also think it is a critical process for people after they leave. >How else do you work out those conflicts? I don't do it with people whose >choice is the 12 steps. I do it here in this group. The venting and joking >has been a very healthy way for me to let off steam. I'm glad this group >has been here for me. It's been like free therapy. I've gotten my sense of >humor back. Rebekah > > ><{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< <o}}}}}>< > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > " Human beings were invented by water > as a device for transporting itself > from one place to another. " > >(from EVEN COWGIRLS GET THE BLUES / Tom Robbins) > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > <o}}}}}>< <{{{{{o> <o}}}}}>< > > WATER IS LIFE > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service. Protect your files before >you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL >today. http://clickhere./click/938 > > >eGroups.com home: /group/12-step-free > - Simplifying group communications > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 1999 Report Share Posted September 22, 1999 Hi, Well I do have a funny story about Phelps. As part of my personal recovery plan form years of drug and 12 step abuse, I became very active in my UU church. Two weeks ago, my lover and I led a group from the church on a walking tour of Greenwich Village. I led the group, who all indentifty as straight, to see the Stonewall Inn. We noticed that across the street a group of protesters had assembled. One the protesters approached me. He said that Rev. Phelps was expected to protest the Stonewall that day. He was checking to see if I were Phelps. The church is having a great time telling the story that thier first out gay board member was confused with the hateful " minister. " So I guess now at least I have reason to smile for the first time when his name comes up. P.S. He never showed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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