Re: The Naked Warrior: HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

[Guest guest]

That makes sense.

" For all that Pavel touts kettlebells for their supposed cheapness, though,

they're not exactly inexpensive. I know, a reasonably spiffy barbell setup

costs more, but still, it's not like kettlebells are all that affordable

either. "

I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is

way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms,

and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> That makes sense.

>

> " For all that Pavel touts kettlebells for their supposed cheapness,

though,

> they're not exactly inexpensive. I know, a reasonably spiffy

barbell setup

> costs more, but still, it's not like kettlebells are all that affordable

> either. "

>

> I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long

run it is

> way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms,

> and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells.

Yes, if you use them, they are a good value and you won't regret the

money you spend, . Hopefully the price will come down with the

competition. I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym

membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week

for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like

to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership

moldering away. Needs to be resold.

Also interesting, I went to a rigorous yoga class today--the first in

about 18 mos.--and observed no decrease in ability, specifically

flexibility. That's what I love about kettlebells, too.

Anyway, props to for telling me about them.

B.

[Guest guest]

Hi Gene,

> I really don't think that it is necessary to do 6 weeks of only swings

> before one starts to practice the

> other exercises, nor do I think that Pavel would say that

> this is necessary.

I can't disagree with you about the necessity of doing 6 weeks of swings but

IIRC Pavel chimed and generally agreed with the post on the DD forum.

> Of course, one of the videos

> would be mandatory, but I think that the view that you are

> expressing is

> overly cautious. I don't think that

> there would be many experienced people on the forum that

> would agree with

> that point of view.

Again, there was quite a bit of agreement when the post was originally

written.

Can you go faster? Sure. But my question is, " why would you want to? "

The one thing that I've learned from destroying both my shoulders over the

past year is that slower is better -- particularly if you are no longer

young and had a long break since you last exercised. Compound that with

improper nutrition over a period of years and you are setting yourself up

for damage. Now that I've had my surgery on the right side I can almost

conclusively state that I trashed my biceps tendon from aggressively doing

ballistic swings with heavy weight.

Right before my left shoulder damage became apparent in January of 2004 I

had contacted Mike Mahler (www.mikemahler.com) for a mass and strength

building workout. He sent me an EDT program

(http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=196dens) involving dumbbell

swings and military presses. After my surgery in February I decided to do

Mike's protocol using just my left side since it would be great core, legs,

glutes and upper body work.

I had to determine my 10 RM for both DB swings and DB mil presses. My 10 RM

for swings turned out to be a 90 pound dumbbell. Problem was, it was just

about pulling my arm out of the socket. The rest of my body was strong

enough to handle that weight but by arm was having difficulty controlling

the dumbbell, particularly at the top of the swing. So, not being a fool, I

thought, I arbitrarily cut the weight back to 50 pounds and dove in. After

two weeks of easy swings with various weights to get myself re-acclimated I

started doing one 25 minute PR zone alternating swings with the MP. It was

one of the most fun workout cycles I ever did. Exhausting but in a really

good way. At the end of 4 weeks I had gone from 105 reps of 50 pound swings

in 25 minutes to 161 reps of 55 pound swings. My total weight lifted in 25

minutes including both swings and mil press went from 5200 pounds to 12,300

pounds. Not bad, eh? Problem was, now my right shoulder didn't feel quite

right. Something was hurting a little bit and it just didn't feel as

stable.

Since I was in physical therapy for my left shoulder I told my therapist and

she did a bunch of work to help me out. Things seemed to be better.

Flash forward to October. In the interim I had been slacking pretty badly

for multiple reasons but finally got back on track in late August and

started slowly ramping up my workouts finally using both arms together.

Pretty standard bodybuilding stuff alternated with High Octane Cardio

sessions (similar to what described in an earlier post.) including KB

swings. I was swinging with a 36 pounder only for short sets of 10 each arm

between bouts of cardio. Finally, on the last day before I was going to

start back on a heavy lifting 12 week cycle I decided to do a series of

dumbbell swings and cleans at the gym. I didn't even really lift heavy -- I

was working with about 40 pounds. About 3 hours after the workout I had

excruciating pain in my right shoulder. I went back the next day to see if

I could work it out and had to stop after about 3 swings.

So off to the doctor I went. Turns out that I had a major rotator cuff tear

but, more importantly, my right biceps tendon was so stretched out that it

was actually falling into the wrong part of the shoulder joint and causing

my shoulder to pop out of place. They had to cut the tendon and re-attach

it on the humerus well below the joint itself.

The conclusions that I have drawn about all of this are that two years of

conventional bodybuilding workouts with both machines and then free weights

(as I got more knowledgeable) did little damage to either of my shoulders.

It was the introduction of heavy ballistic moves that caused the damage and

the damage occurred very quickly because I was so aggressive. That was

good to some degree because I didn't have to spend years coddling a

partially damaged situation. It was broken so I got it fixed and can move

on.

Another element of the problem was the fact that I did not properly prepare

myself for each change. Bodybuilding workouts created strength imbalances

-- I was way strong in some areas but had not developed that same strength

in others. Had I started swinging with a 26 pound KB and slowly worked my

way up over a period of many months I don't believe I would have hurt myself

in this way.

Finally, I think that years of poor nutrition and general body abuse caused

the condition of my connective tissue to degrade. A person who had eaten

well and exercised continuously over those years probably would not have had

the same problem I did when starting back working out at 40 years of age

after years of mistreatment.

So, my final point and going back to my earlier question to -- why go

faster? What goal is he trying to achieve that cannot be better created in

a year rather than a month? My own aggressive attitude has lead to much

expense, many weeks of down time, lots of pain and all for what? I used

exercise as a method to help me lose weight but I've discovered that I can

actually lose weight with a much less intense exercise program. I still

have exercise goals and am still working towards them but I'm going to do so

at a rate of improvement that will make me healthier and not hurt me. There

is no rational reason for him to aggressively train and risk injury. Train

steadily and thoroughly but give your body the time it needs to adapt and

adjust as is appropriate to your age and condition.

>

> I certainly agree that it wouldn't be good to set up a

> complicated workout

> at first, but there are certainly

> several exercises on the beginning tapes that one could start

> out with in

> the first few days.

I don't disagree with you at all, but I don't see any reason for him to do

so. He will gain a lot of experience just swinging for 6 weeks and will be

better prepped for all that comes later because of it.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> > did a 12 week

> > " grease the groove " pistols cycle last spring after my left

> shoulder surgery

> >and had great result with it.

>

> How many sets did you tend to do per day?

>

3 to 6. For most of the duration I was doing ones and twos each leg, so

they weren't very difficult sets. MWF I would do a one hour workout

including all of my shoulder PT drills but I added a bunch of bodyweight box

squats and pistols just to mix things up.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Hi Sandy,

> > I certainly agree that it wouldn't be good to set up a complicated

> > workout

> > at first, but there are certainly

> > several exercises on the beginning tapes that one could

> start out with

> > in

> > the first few days.

> >

> >

> Which video would you recommend as a first purchase.

>

From Russia with Tough Love. Great breakdown and explanation of the

exercises. Also because in this video Pavel is explaining while others do

the moves. For some reason that makes it more clear than when he is

explaining his own movements. For me, at least.

Ron

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Gene,

>

> > I really don't think that it is necessary to do 6 weeks of only swings

> > before one starts to practice the

> > other exercises, nor do I think that Pavel would say that

> > this is necessary.

>

> I can't disagree with you about the necessity of doing 6 weeks of swings but

> IIRC Pavel chimed and generally agreed with the post on the DD forum.

Well, I'd have to see the context. He certainly doesn't say or imply anything of

the kind in his videos or books.

....

>

> Again, there was quite a bit of agreement when the post was originally

> written.

>

> Can you go faster? Sure. But my question is, " why would you want to? "

>

Well, because doing just swings would be deadly boring? Swings are a great

exercise. It's not that you couldn't do a workout with just swings. But I simply

can't imagine doing this for six weeks, and I think that it is totally

unnecessary.

> The one thing that I've learned from destroying both my shoulders over the

> past year is that slower is better -- particularly if you are no longer

> young and had a long break since you last exercised. Compound that with

> improper nutrition over a period of years and you are setting yourself up

> for damage. Now that I've had my surgery on the right side I can almost

> conclusively state that I trashed my biceps tendon from aggressively doing

> ballistic swings with heavy weight.

>

But then this would have happened with just swings, wouldn't it? I think that no

matter what the exercise, you need some time to develop a little technique, and

become aware of your limitations and the dangers. But I just can't see how doing

just swings for 6 weeks is the best means to accomplish this.

It can't hurt. Swings are a great exercise. I didn't follow this. Few people on

Dragondoor have followed it. Few would recommend it. I doubt that Pavel would

recommend it for someone who was in halfway decent shape.

I am far from being an expert, but I have trained with them a bit for about 3

years now, and I did train with Dmitri Sataev who is probably the premiere

American at kettlebell sport.

On the other hand, I think that when something starts to hurt you have to be

careful.

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>It certainly isn't essential that you really try to get high reps in the

>snatch and jerk, so

>if you are nervous about any of these aspects, then use Pavel's form. But, I

>have a history of

>lower back problems, and I haven't had an issue with leaning back in the

>jerk.

Heck, I'm nervous about all ballistic and explosive moves, at least for

myself, since I have a lot of connective tissue degeneration, but I'll see

how it goes, and I'm certainly open to any arguments.

>Walking up a steep hill with a 100 lb medicine

>ball is something that you should try once in a lifetime...

I periodically carry very heavy things up three flights of stairs to my

apartment (a 110# laser printer, a 49# box of coconut oil, etc.) so I'm not

sure I need to further broaden my horizons in that direction. <g>

-

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>I have a small San Francisco apartment, and somehow I have 2 36s, 2 44s, 2

>53s, 1 72, 2 88s, a 100 lb medicine ball, an 80 pound medicine ball, and a

>60 lb medicine ball.

Holy crap! You have enough for an army!

-

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is

>way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms,

>and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells.

Well, that's fair enough, but you can make that argument about a lot of

equipment -- my treadmill and my TriMax, for example, both of which I've

got to sell to make room.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym

>membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week

>for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like

>to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership

>moldering away. Needs to be resold.

I'll be watching the kettlebell DVD shortly, so I guess I'll be able to see

for myself, but how hard are kettlebells on the joints? Slow, controlled

heavy lifts seem to work fine for me, but I'm concerned about some of the

more rapid moves kettlebells are supposed to be used for.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> Gene-

>

> >I have a small San Francisco apartment, and somehow I have 2 36s, 2 44s, 2

> >53s, 1 72, 2 88s, a 100 lb medicine ball, an 80 pound medicine ball, and a

> >60 lb medicine ball.

>

> Holy crap! You have enough for an army!

>

> -

I have to sleep on the rowing machine.

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>So, my final point and going back to my earlier question to -- why go

>faster? What goal is he trying to achieve that cannot be better created in

>a year rather than a month? My own aggressive attitude has lead to much

>expense, many weeks of down time, lots of pain and all for what? I used

>exercise as a method to help me lose weight but I've discovered that I can

>actually lose weight with a much less intense exercise program. I still

>have exercise goals and am still working towards them but I'm going to do so

>at a rate of improvement that will make me healthier and not hurt me. There

>is no rational reason for him to aggressively train and risk injury. Train

>steadily and thoroughly but give your body the time it needs to adapt and

>adjust as is appropriate to your age and condition.

I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be cautious. I

can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an absolute requirement

that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story like plain

swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many of them and/or

did swings with too much weight. So...

-

[Guest guest]

>

> Gene-

>

> >I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is

> >way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms,

> >and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells.

>

> Well, that's fair enough, but you can make that argument about a lot of

> equipment -- my treadmill and my TriMax, for example, both of which I've

> got to sell to make room.

>

That's totally true. Probably most pieces of home equipment cost less in the

long run than gym membership. I think that kettlebells are great, but there is a

LOT of hype about them, especially from Dragondoor. You'd think that just by

looking at them you'd lose 20 pounds...

[Guest guest]

> I don't know how physically co-ordinated you are, as

>in, how much body awareness do you have? Are you a bit awkward and

>geeky/jerky or graceful and easy-flowing? It could take someone who

>hadn't ever done any sports or physical activity much up to six weeks

>to get the foundation of a good swing down, for real. No shame in

>that. Esp. with your connective tissue issues. I frequently train

>deconditioned people, and it takes a long time to get a good, solid

>and consistent pelvic thrust going (what we call " the midnight move " ).

>you can do box-squats and turkish sit-ups, too, to break it up.

____

I should mention, in addition to posting my experience, that I think I have

above-average (though not exceptional) body awareness and grace. At the time

I started kettlebells, and up until I got this latest job 8 months ago, I'd

been spending about 20 minutes a day doing stretches and joint rotations,

etc, that I learned from various martial arts things I never followed through

with. The average person who has no interest in moving their hips in a

circular motion without moving their torso and such other things might have more

risk in such endeavors, I don't know.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> -

>

> >I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym

> >membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week

> >for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like

> >to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership

> >moldering away. Needs to be resold.

>

> I'll be watching the kettlebell DVD shortly, so I guess I'll be able to see

> for myself, but how hard are kettlebells on the joints? Slow, controlled

> heavy lifts seem to work fine for me, but I'm concerned about some of the

> more rapid moves kettlebells are supposed to be used for.

>

>

Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt, you have

to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes excruciating. That's

when you know you're healing.

[Guest guest]

Ron-

>3 to 6. For most of the duration I was doing ones and twos each leg, so

>they weren't very difficult sets.

I've been doing 3 sets of 5 per leg and working my way down towards the

ground. At the beginning, my balance was surprisingly atrocious. Even now

it sucks, but at least it's steadily getting better -- or I guess I should

say less horrible. But I'm still doing the easy lunge version, partly

because I can't figure out what to use as a box for box squats that will

allow me to incrementally decrease the height of the support. At any rate,

given how bad my knees are, I've been very pleased to have no problems with

them doing this.

I'm starting to get to the point, though, where 3 sets don't seem to be

enough. Any thoughts on whether I'd be better off lowering the support

faster, doing more sets, or holding some extra weight to keep 3x5

sufficiently challenging? The reason I've stuck to a slower schedule on

lowering the support is just that I want to give my knees time to adapt,

but I don't know whether they need the extra time.

-

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt,

>you have to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes

>excruciating. That's when you know you're healing.

LOL! I don't think I'll be doing that!

-

[Guest guest]

-

>I'll order from Dragondoor and give them your shipping addy--unless

>you find something you like at Power Systems. Re: jumping up to a

>72#kb, I'm sure there's a 63#. Two 53's ought to keep you busy for

>quite a while, though.

Ah, gotcha. Sounds cool, thanks! At the moment, though, I confess I'm a

bit skeptical of the real value of all the extra intermediate weights. I

mean, sure, if I had unlimited cash, but it seems more like a marketing

gimmick to squeeze more money out of the public. Pavel is nothing if not

overzealous about self-promotion and creating the maximum possible number

of saleable products. I'd be more pissed if his information didn't seem to

be of a generally high level.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> Gene-

>

> >Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt,

> >you have to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes

> >excruciating. That's when you know you're healing.

>

> LOL! I don't think I'll be doing that!

>

> -

It is actually the screaming that is therapeutic.

[Guest guest]

>

> -

>

> >I'll order from Dragondoor and give them your shipping addy--unless

> >you find something you like at Power Systems. Re: jumping up to a

> >72#kb, I'm sure there's a 63#. Two 53's ought to keep you busy for

> >quite a while, though.

>

> Ah, gotcha. Sounds cool, thanks! At the moment, though, I confess I'm a

> bit skeptical of the real value of all the extra intermediate weights. I

> mean, sure, if I had unlimited cash, but it seems more like a marketing

> gimmick to squeeze more money out of the public. Pavel is nothing if not

> overzealous about self-promotion and creating the maximum possible number

> of saleable products. I'd be more pissed if his information didn't seem to

> be of a generally high level.

>

>

> -

>

Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of users.

It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53 to 72 pounds

with some exercises. In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is

easier. Dragondoor claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they

are now being offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells,

maybe?), and are apparently pretty good.

But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go way

overboard.

[Guest guest]

> I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be

> cautious. I

> can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an

> absolute requirement

> that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story

> like plain

> swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many

> of them and/or

> did swings with too much weight. So...

Yes. Exactly.

My opinion is that your 44 pound bell is not light. You are a big guy but

at both end ranges of the swing you will be controlling the bell with your

arm/shoulder. Most likely parts of your arm are strong enough to work the

bell and other parts may not be. If I had as much connective tissue

dysfunction as you are describing I would be going very, very, very slowly.

A few sets a day and increase over a period of weeks. I understand that

many others find my suggestions too easy/slow/boring but they aren't sitting

here chewing on oxycontin to relieve the pain of a $30,000 shoulder repair.

On the other hand, I'm not trying to frighten you. I just completed a short

cycle of KB workouts with my previously repaired left arm prior to this

surgery and I will be going back to them as soon as I'm able. My general

rule of thumb is that I'm using only bells that feel light enough for me to

control. I started off with a 26 pounder for a week and worked myself up to

a 36 for some exercises. I've been using the 53 for some cleans and squats.

Keeping total reps low. I've introduced a bunch of grinding exercises and

reduced the ballistic ones until I feel like I've worked my way into them

and all the parts of my body are handling them well.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Gene-

>Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of

>users. It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53

>to 72 pounds with some exercises.

Oh? Not surprising, I guess, but if traditional kettlebells were just

available in a few weights, is greater granularity really necessary? It

seems to me you could just throttle back on the number of exercises

immediately after making a jump until ready for the more difficult

ones. Though I suppose there's no reason to argue against the option of

greater granularity if you can afford it.

>In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is easier. Dragondoor

>claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they are now being

>offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells, maybe?), and

>are apparently pretty good.

Hmm, interesting. USKettlebells.com. $200 shipped per adjustable

kettlebell, so a pair would be $400 -- not at all cheap, but it would be

cheaper than amassing a whole bunch of different sizes of standard bells,

though more expensive than graduating from one weight to the next and

selling the previous weight (which I know you recommend against). The main

problem (which wouldn't be relevant for everyone) is that it maxes out at

70.5#.

A pair of adjustables would be a good deal more expensive than a pair of

53# bells, and I have no clue whether I'd ever want or need to go beyond

70#, but... Well, I'll have plenty of time to make that decision, I

guess. I might find I hate them, anyway.

>But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go

>way overboard.

Yeah, no kidding. I wish someone would do some quality research on whether

huge hype is even worthwhile. I dislike it strongly, and I'd think that it

turns off a fair number of people, so I'd like to find out that it's not

economically wise (that it either turns off too many people or limits the

long-term viability of the hyped product or trend by sparking backlash --

or both) but then again maybe the more hype the better, from a bottom-line

perspective.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> I've been doing 3 sets of 5 per leg and working my way down

> towards the

> ground. At the beginning, my balance was surprisingly

> atrocious. Even now

> it sucks, but at least it's steadily getting better -- or I

> guess I should

> say less horrible.

Made me laugh. I spent more time falling over the first week or so than I

did standing up. It all reminded me of doing the tree pose in yoga except

much faster.

> But I'm still doing the easy lunge

> version, partly

> because I can't figure out what to use as a box for box

> squats that will

> allow me to incrementally decrease the height of the support.

This is a real problem. I am fortunate that our gym has a ton of Reebok

steps for Step Aerobics and they stack really nicely.

> At any rate,

> given how bad my knees are, I've been very pleased to have no

> problems with

> them doing this.

That's a great sign that things are going well.

>

> I'm starting to get to the point, though, where 3 sets don't

> seem to be

> enough. Any thoughts on whether I'd be better off lowering

> the support

> faster, doing more sets, or holding some extra weight to keep 3x5

> sufficiently challenging? The reason I've stuck to a slower

> schedule on

> lowering the support is just that I want to give my knees

> time to adapt,

> but I don't know whether they need the extra time.

I'm surely no expert here but my inclination is that you will do better to

go deeper rather than heavier or more reps. You want to get the full motion

down as quickly as you are safely able rather than increasing your ability

to do more light reps or adding weight. If it were me and I was bored at

3x5 at the current height and had zero pain anywhere in my joints I would go

down to the next level. You can always go back up if you start to get pain.

As suggested, let pain be your guide. LOL

Ron

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be

> > cautious. I

> > can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an

> > absolute requirement

> > that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story

> > like plain

> > swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many

> > of them and/or

> > did swings with too much weight. So...

>

> Yes. Exactly.

>

> My opinion is that your 44 pound bell is not light. You are a big guy but

> at both end ranges of the swing you will be controlling the bell with your

> arm/shoulder. Most likely parts of your arm are strong enough to work the

> bell and other parts may not be. If I had as much connective tissue

> dysfunction as you are describing I would be going very, very, very slowly.

> A few sets a day and increase over a period of weeks. I understand that

> many others find my suggestions too easy/slow/boring but they aren't sitting

> here chewing on oxycontin to relieve the pain of a $30,000 shoulder repair.

>

> On the other hand, I'm not trying to frighten you. I just completed a short

> cycle of KB workouts with my previously repaired left arm prior to this

> surgery and I will be going back to them as soon as I'm able. My general

> rule of thumb is that I'm using only bells that feel light enough for me to

> control. I started off with a 26 pounder for a week and worked myself up to

> a 36 for some exercises. I've been using the 53 for some cleans and squats.

> Keeping total reps low. I've introduced a bunch of grinding exercises and

> reduced the ballistic ones until I feel like I've worked my way into them

> and all the parts of my body are handling them well.

>

> Ron

General agreement I think as to the core of your message - be cautious until you

learn how you are going to react to the ballistic exercises if you haven't done

them before. I have a very good idea now about what to expect. After a few weeks

I think you become familiar with how you should feel when things are working

correctly, and you shouldn't continue if you think that you might be starting to

injure yourself.

[Guest guest]

>

> Gene-

>

> >Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of

> >users. It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53

> >to 72 pounds with some exercises.

>

> Oh? Not surprising, I guess, but if traditional kettlebells were just

> available in a few weights, is greater granularity really necessary? It

> seems to me you could just throttle back on the number of exercises

> immediately after making a jump until ready for the more difficult

> ones. Though I suppose there's no reason to argue against the option of

> greater granularity if you can afford it.

I'd say that they are extremely valuable. Necessary? Well, of course not. I

think that much of the impulse to build these weights came from people who were,

to some degree or other, practicing kettlesport: jerk, long cycle, and snatch.

It is simply easier to progress if the weight jump is less than approximately 17

pounds. But if you're not interested in this at all, and just want to do a

variety of exercises to stay in shape, then no, they are not necessary. However,

I think that you'll find that there will be exercises that you could manage with

one weight that you simply cannot do with one that is 17# heavier, and that is

probably accentuated with 2 kettlebell exercises.

>

> >In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is easier. Dragondoor

> >claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they are now being

> >offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells, maybe?), and

> >are apparently pretty good.

>

> Hmm, interesting. USKettlebells.com. $200 shipped per adjustable

> kettlebell, so a pair would be $400 -- not at all cheap, but it would be

> cheaper than amassing a whole bunch of different sizes of standard bells,

> though more expensive than graduating from one weight to the next and

> selling the previous weight (which I know you recommend against). The main

> problem (which wouldn't be relevant for everyone) is that it maxes out at

> 70.5#.

>

Well, I think that they are planning to offer a kit to add even more weight

(can't recall). But, you could always then get a pair of the 88's from

Dragondoor eventually, or even the Max Kettlebells which come up to 145 lbs, I

think. I'd like to get those at one point just to do farmer's walks with...

In any case, if you just want to use the Dragondoor weights, it's faster to just

pick up another pair, rather than add weights or remove weights from an

adjustable set. I think that (other than cost) the reason to get the adjustable

ones would be that you can easily get to even finer gradations of weight. I

intend to get this at some point, because I think that they will help me

improve. I think that the psychological factor is important too...it's good to

vary both exercises and the weights that you're using, I think. Makes it more

interesting, and it's easier to stay motivated.

> >But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go

> >way overboard.

>

> Yeah, no kidding. I wish someone would do some quality research on whether

> huge hype is even worthwhile. I dislike it strongly, and I'd think that it

> turns off a fair number of people, so I'd like to find out that it's not

> economically wise (that it either turns off too many people or limits the

> long-term viability of the hyped product or trend by sparking backlash --

> or both) but then again maybe the more hype the better, from a bottom-line

> perspective.

Well, I think that kettlebell training works really well. Part of it is that

I've been able to stay interested in strength and endurance training, pretty

much for 3 years, whereas I always hated strength training previously, and never

could keep at it.

But I don't like the 'vibe' of Dragondoor. Part of it is the hype, part of it is

the cult. And much of it is the militaristic/over the top 'patriotism' of most

of its members, including Pavel.