Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 That makes sense. " For all that Pavel touts kettlebells for their supposed cheapness, though, they're not exactly inexpensive. I know, a reasonably spiffy barbell setup costs more, but still, it's not like kettlebells are all that affordable either. " I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms, and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 > > > That makes sense. > > " For all that Pavel touts kettlebells for their supposed cheapness, though, > they're not exactly inexpensive. I know, a reasonably spiffy barbell setup > costs more, but still, it's not like kettlebells are all that affordable > either. " > > I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is > way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms, > and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells. Yes, if you use them, they are a good value and you won't regret the money you spend, . Hopefully the price will come down with the competition. I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership moldering away. Needs to be resold. Also interesting, I went to a rigorous yoga class today--the first in about 18 mos.--and observed no decrease in ability, specifically flexibility. That's what I love about kettlebells, too. Anyway, props to for telling me about them. B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi Gene, > I really don't think that it is necessary to do 6 weeks of only swings > before one starts to practice the > other exercises, nor do I think that Pavel would say that > this is necessary. I can't disagree with you about the necessity of doing 6 weeks of swings but IIRC Pavel chimed and generally agreed with the post on the DD forum. > Of course, one of the videos > would be mandatory, but I think that the view that you are > expressing is > overly cautious. I don't think that > there would be many experienced people on the forum that > would agree with > that point of view. Again, there was quite a bit of agreement when the post was originally written. Can you go faster? Sure. But my question is, " why would you want to? " The one thing that I've learned from destroying both my shoulders over the past year is that slower is better -- particularly if you are no longer young and had a long break since you last exercised. Compound that with improper nutrition over a period of years and you are setting yourself up for damage. Now that I've had my surgery on the right side I can almost conclusively state that I trashed my biceps tendon from aggressively doing ballistic swings with heavy weight. Right before my left shoulder damage became apparent in January of 2004 I had contacted Mike Mahler (www.mikemahler.com) for a mass and strength building workout. He sent me an EDT program (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=196dens) involving dumbbell swings and military presses. After my surgery in February I decided to do Mike's protocol using just my left side since it would be great core, legs, glutes and upper body work. I had to determine my 10 RM for both DB swings and DB mil presses. My 10 RM for swings turned out to be a 90 pound dumbbell. Problem was, it was just about pulling my arm out of the socket. The rest of my body was strong enough to handle that weight but by arm was having difficulty controlling the dumbbell, particularly at the top of the swing. So, not being a fool, I thought, I arbitrarily cut the weight back to 50 pounds and dove in. After two weeks of easy swings with various weights to get myself re-acclimated I started doing one 25 minute PR zone alternating swings with the MP. It was one of the most fun workout cycles I ever did. Exhausting but in a really good way. At the end of 4 weeks I had gone from 105 reps of 50 pound swings in 25 minutes to 161 reps of 55 pound swings. My total weight lifted in 25 minutes including both swings and mil press went from 5200 pounds to 12,300 pounds. Not bad, eh? Problem was, now my right shoulder didn't feel quite right. Something was hurting a little bit and it just didn't feel as stable. Since I was in physical therapy for my left shoulder I told my therapist and she did a bunch of work to help me out. Things seemed to be better. Flash forward to October. In the interim I had been slacking pretty badly for multiple reasons but finally got back on track in late August and started slowly ramping up my workouts finally using both arms together. Pretty standard bodybuilding stuff alternated with High Octane Cardio sessions (similar to what described in an earlier post.) including KB swings. I was swinging with a 36 pounder only for short sets of 10 each arm between bouts of cardio. Finally, on the last day before I was going to start back on a heavy lifting 12 week cycle I decided to do a series of dumbbell swings and cleans at the gym. I didn't even really lift heavy -- I was working with about 40 pounds. About 3 hours after the workout I had excruciating pain in my right shoulder. I went back the next day to see if I could work it out and had to stop after about 3 swings. So off to the doctor I went. Turns out that I had a major rotator cuff tear but, more importantly, my right biceps tendon was so stretched out that it was actually falling into the wrong part of the shoulder joint and causing my shoulder to pop out of place. They had to cut the tendon and re-attach it on the humerus well below the joint itself. The conclusions that I have drawn about all of this are that two years of conventional bodybuilding workouts with both machines and then free weights (as I got more knowledgeable) did little damage to either of my shoulders. It was the introduction of heavy ballistic moves that caused the damage and the damage occurred very quickly because I was so aggressive. That was good to some degree because I didn't have to spend years coddling a partially damaged situation. It was broken so I got it fixed and can move on. Another element of the problem was the fact that I did not properly prepare myself for each change. Bodybuilding workouts created strength imbalances -- I was way strong in some areas but had not developed that same strength in others. Had I started swinging with a 26 pound KB and slowly worked my way up over a period of many months I don't believe I would have hurt myself in this way. Finally, I think that years of poor nutrition and general body abuse caused the condition of my connective tissue to degrade. A person who had eaten well and exercised continuously over those years probably would not have had the same problem I did when starting back working out at 40 years of age after years of mistreatment. So, my final point and going back to my earlier question to -- why go faster? What goal is he trying to achieve that cannot be better created in a year rather than a month? My own aggressive attitude has lead to much expense, many weeks of down time, lots of pain and all for what? I used exercise as a method to help me lose weight but I've discovered that I can actually lose weight with a much less intense exercise program. I still have exercise goals and am still working towards them but I'm going to do so at a rate of improvement that will make me healthier and not hurt me. There is no rational reason for him to aggressively train and risk injury. Train steadily and thoroughly but give your body the time it needs to adapt and adjust as is appropriate to your age and condition. > > I certainly agree that it wouldn't be good to set up a > complicated workout > at first, but there are certainly > several exercises on the beginning tapes that one could start > out with in > the first few days. I don't disagree with you at all, but I don't see any reason for him to do so. He will gain a lot of experience just swinging for 6 weeks and will be better prepped for all that comes later because of it. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi , > > did a 12 week > > " grease the groove " pistols cycle last spring after my left > shoulder surgery > >and had great result with it. > > How many sets did you tend to do per day? > 3 to 6. For most of the duration I was doing ones and twos each leg, so they weren't very difficult sets. MWF I would do a one hour workout including all of my shoulder PT drills but I added a bunch of bodyweight box squats and pistols just to mix things up. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi Sandy, > > I certainly agree that it wouldn't be good to set up a complicated > > workout > > at first, but there are certainly > > several exercises on the beginning tapes that one could > start out with > > in > > the first few days. > > > > > Which video would you recommend as a first purchase. > From Russia with Tough Love. Great breakdown and explanation of the exercises. Also because in this video Pavel is explaining while others do the moves. For some reason that makes it more clear than when he is explaining his own movements. For me, at least. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > Hi Gene, > > > I really don't think that it is necessary to do 6 weeks of only swings > > before one starts to practice the > > other exercises, nor do I think that Pavel would say that > > this is necessary. > > I can't disagree with you about the necessity of doing 6 weeks of swings but > IIRC Pavel chimed and generally agreed with the post on the DD forum. Well, I'd have to see the context. He certainly doesn't say or imply anything of the kind in his videos or books. .... > > Again, there was quite a bit of agreement when the post was originally > written. > > Can you go faster? Sure. But my question is, " why would you want to? " > Well, because doing just swings would be deadly boring? Swings are a great exercise. It's not that you couldn't do a workout with just swings. But I simply can't imagine doing this for six weeks, and I think that it is totally unnecessary. > The one thing that I've learned from destroying both my shoulders over the > past year is that slower is better -- particularly if you are no longer > young and had a long break since you last exercised. Compound that with > improper nutrition over a period of years and you are setting yourself up > for damage. Now that I've had my surgery on the right side I can almost > conclusively state that I trashed my biceps tendon from aggressively doing > ballistic swings with heavy weight. > But then this would have happened with just swings, wouldn't it? I think that no matter what the exercise, you need some time to develop a little technique, and become aware of your limitations and the dangers. But I just can't see how doing just swings for 6 weeks is the best means to accomplish this. It can't hurt. Swings are a great exercise. I didn't follow this. Few people on Dragondoor have followed it. Few would recommend it. I doubt that Pavel would recommend it for someone who was in halfway decent shape. I am far from being an expert, but I have trained with them a bit for about 3 years now, and I did train with Dmitri Sataev who is probably the premiere American at kettlebell sport. On the other hand, I think that when something starts to hurt you have to be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gene- >It certainly isn't essential that you really try to get high reps in the >snatch and jerk, so >if you are nervous about any of these aspects, then use Pavel's form. But, I >have a history of >lower back problems, and I haven't had an issue with leaning back in the >jerk. Heck, I'm nervous about all ballistic and explosive moves, at least for myself, since I have a lot of connective tissue degeneration, but I'll see how it goes, and I'm certainly open to any arguments. >Walking up a steep hill with a 100 lb medicine >ball is something that you should try once in a lifetime... I periodically carry very heavy things up three flights of stairs to my apartment (a 110# laser printer, a 49# box of coconut oil, etc.) so I'm not sure I need to further broaden my horizons in that direction. <g> - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gene- >I have a small San Francisco apartment, and somehow I have 2 36s, 2 44s, 2 >53s, 1 72, 2 88s, a 100 lb medicine ball, an 80 pound medicine ball, and a >60 lb medicine ball. Holy crap! You have enough for an army! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gene- >I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is >way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms, >and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells. Well, that's fair enough, but you can make that argument about a lot of equipment -- my treadmill and my TriMax, for example, both of which I've got to sell to make room. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 - >I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym >membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week >for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like >to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership >moldering away. Needs to be resold. I'll be watching the kettlebell DVD shortly, so I guess I'll be able to see for myself, but how hard are kettlebells on the joints? Slow, controlled heavy lifts seem to work fine for me, but I'm concerned about some of the more rapid moves kettlebells are supposed to be used for. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > Gene- > > >I have a small San Francisco apartment, and somehow I have 2 36s, 2 44s, 2 > >53s, 1 72, 2 88s, a 100 lb medicine ball, an 80 pound medicine ball, and a > >60 lb medicine ball. > > Holy crap! You have enough for an army! > > - I have to sleep on the rowing machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Ron- >So, my final point and going back to my earlier question to -- why go >faster? What goal is he trying to achieve that cannot be better created in >a year rather than a month? My own aggressive attitude has lead to much >expense, many weeks of down time, lots of pain and all for what? I used >exercise as a method to help me lose weight but I've discovered that I can >actually lose weight with a much less intense exercise program. I still >have exercise goals and am still working towards them but I'm going to do so >at a rate of improvement that will make me healthier and not hurt me. There >is no rational reason for him to aggressively train and risk injury. Train >steadily and thoroughly but give your body the time it needs to adapt and >adjust as is appropriate to your age and condition. I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be cautious. I can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an absolute requirement that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story like plain swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many of them and/or did swings with too much weight. So... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > Gene- > > >I think that the argument that is usually made is that in the long run it is > >way cheaper than gym membership. I hate gyms, > >and I'm really glad I spent the $ on the kettlebells. > > Well, that's fair enough, but you can make that argument about a lot of > equipment -- my treadmill and my TriMax, for example, both of which I've > got to sell to make room. > That's totally true. Probably most pieces of home equipment cost less in the long run than gym membership. I think that kettlebells are great, but there is a LOT of hype about them, especially from Dragondoor. You'd think that just by looking at them you'd lose 20 pounds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > I don't know how physically co-ordinated you are, as >in, how much body awareness do you have? Are you a bit awkward and >geeky/jerky or graceful and easy-flowing? It could take someone who >hadn't ever done any sports or physical activity much up to six weeks >to get the foundation of a good swing down, for real. No shame in >that. Esp. with your connective tissue issues. I frequently train >deconditioned people, and it takes a long time to get a good, solid >and consistent pelvic thrust going (what we call " the midnight move " ). >you can do box-squats and turkish sit-ups, too, to break it up. ____ I should mention, in addition to posting my experience, that I think I have above-average (though not exceptional) body awareness and grace. At the time I started kettlebells, and up until I got this latest job 8 months ago, I'd been spending about 20 minutes a day doing stretches and joint rotations, etc, that I learned from various martial arts things I never followed through with. The average person who has no interest in moving their hips in a circular motion without moving their torso and such other things might have more risk in such endeavors, I don't know. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > - > > >I used to work out/train two hours/day plus gym > >membership and trainer. Now I use kettlebells a couple/few times/week > >for thirty mins. or so and run in sand sometimes just because I like > >to. No loss in conditioning and in fact many gains. Gym membership > >moldering away. Needs to be resold. > > I'll be watching the kettlebell DVD shortly, so I guess I'll be able to see > for myself, but how hard are kettlebells on the joints? Slow, controlled > heavy lifts seem to work fine for me, but I'm concerned about some of the > more rapid moves kettlebells are supposed to be used for. > > Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt, you have to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes excruciating. That's when you know you're healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Ron- >3 to 6. For most of the duration I was doing ones and twos each leg, so >they weren't very difficult sets. I've been doing 3 sets of 5 per leg and working my way down towards the ground. At the beginning, my balance was surprisingly atrocious. Even now it sucks, but at least it's steadily getting better -- or I guess I should say less horrible. But I'm still doing the easy lunge version, partly because I can't figure out what to use as a box for box squats that will allow me to incrementally decrease the height of the support. At any rate, given how bad my knees are, I've been very pleased to have no problems with them doing this. I'm starting to get to the point, though, where 3 sets don't seem to be enough. Any thoughts on whether I'd be better off lowering the support faster, doing more sets, or holding some extra weight to keep 3x5 sufficiently challenging? The reason I've stuck to a slower schedule on lowering the support is just that I want to give my knees time to adapt, but I don't know whether they need the extra time. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gene- >Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt, >you have to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes >excruciating. That's when you know you're healing. LOL! I don't think I'll be doing that! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 - >I'll order from Dragondoor and give them your shipping addy--unless >you find something you like at Power Systems. Re: jumping up to a >72#kb, I'm sure there's a 63#. Two 53's ought to keep you busy for >quite a while, though. Ah, gotcha. Sounds cool, thanks! At the moment, though, I confess I'm a bit skeptical of the real value of all the extra intermediate weights. I mean, sure, if I had unlimited cash, but it seems more like a marketing gimmick to squeeze more money out of the public. Pavel is nothing if not overzealous about self-promotion and creating the maximum possible number of saleable products. I'd be more pissed if his information didn't seem to be of a generally high level. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > Gene- > > >Well, the think you have to remember is that when things start to hurt, > >you have to push yourself harder and harder until the pain becomes > >excruciating. That's when you know you're healing. > > LOL! I don't think I'll be doing that! > > - It is actually the screaming that is therapeutic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > - > > >I'll order from Dragondoor and give them your shipping addy--unless > >you find something you like at Power Systems. Re: jumping up to a > >72#kb, I'm sure there's a 63#. Two 53's ought to keep you busy for > >quite a while, though. > > Ah, gotcha. Sounds cool, thanks! At the moment, though, I confess I'm a > bit skeptical of the real value of all the extra intermediate weights. I > mean, sure, if I had unlimited cash, but it seems more like a marketing > gimmick to squeeze more money out of the public. Pavel is nothing if not > overzealous about self-promotion and creating the maximum possible number > of saleable products. I'd be more pissed if his information didn't seem to > be of a generally high level. > > > - > Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of users. It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53 to 72 pounds with some exercises. In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is easier. Dragondoor claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they are now being offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells, maybe?), and are apparently pretty good. But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go way overboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be > cautious. I > can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an > absolute requirement > that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story > like plain > swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many > of them and/or > did swings with too much weight. So... Yes. Exactly. My opinion is that your 44 pound bell is not light. You are a big guy but at both end ranges of the swing you will be controlling the bell with your arm/shoulder. Most likely parts of your arm are strong enough to work the bell and other parts may not be. If I had as much connective tissue dysfunction as you are describing I would be going very, very, very slowly. A few sets a day and increase over a period of weeks. I understand that many others find my suggestions too easy/slow/boring but they aren't sitting here chewing on oxycontin to relieve the pain of a $30,000 shoulder repair. On the other hand, I'm not trying to frighten you. I just completed a short cycle of KB workouts with my previously repaired left arm prior to this surgery and I will be going back to them as soon as I'm able. My general rule of thumb is that I'm using only bells that feel light enough for me to control. I started off with a 26 pounder for a week and worked myself up to a 36 for some exercises. I've been using the 53 for some cleans and squats. Keeping total reps low. I've introduced a bunch of grinding exercises and reduced the ballistic ones until I feel like I've worked my way into them and all the parts of my body are handling them well. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Gene- >Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of >users. It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53 >to 72 pounds with some exercises. Oh? Not surprising, I guess, but if traditional kettlebells were just available in a few weights, is greater granularity really necessary? It seems to me you could just throttle back on the number of exercises immediately after making a jump until ready for the more difficult ones. Though I suppose there's no reason to argue against the option of greater granularity if you can afford it. >In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is easier. Dragondoor >claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they are now being >offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells, maybe?), and >are apparently pretty good. Hmm, interesting. USKettlebells.com. $200 shipped per adjustable kettlebell, so a pair would be $400 -- not at all cheap, but it would be cheaper than amassing a whole bunch of different sizes of standard bells, though more expensive than graduating from one weight to the next and selling the previous weight (which I know you recommend against). The main problem (which wouldn't be relevant for everyone) is that it maxes out at 70.5#. A pair of adjustables would be a good deal more expensive than a pair of 53# bells, and I have no clue whether I'd ever want or need to go beyond 70#, but... Well, I'll have plenty of time to make that decision, I guess. I might find I hate them, anyway. >But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go >way overboard. Yeah, no kidding. I wish someone would do some quality research on whether huge hype is even worthwhile. I dislike it strongly, and I'd think that it turns off a fair number of people, so I'd like to find out that it's not economically wise (that it either turns off too many people or limits the long-term viability of the hyped product or trend by sparking backlash -- or both) but then again maybe the more hype the better, from a bottom-line perspective. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi , > I've been doing 3 sets of 5 per leg and working my way down > towards the > ground. At the beginning, my balance was surprisingly > atrocious. Even now > it sucks, but at least it's steadily getting better -- or I > guess I should > say less horrible. Made me laugh. I spent more time falling over the first week or so than I did standing up. It all reminded me of doing the tree pose in yoga except much faster. > But I'm still doing the easy lunge > version, partly > because I can't figure out what to use as a box for box > squats that will > allow me to incrementally decrease the height of the support. This is a real problem. I am fortunate that our gym has a ton of Reebok steps for Step Aerobics and they stack really nicely. > At any rate, > given how bad my knees are, I've been very pleased to have no > problems with > them doing this. That's a great sign that things are going well. > > I'm starting to get to the point, though, where 3 sets don't > seem to be > enough. Any thoughts on whether I'd be better off lowering > the support > faster, doing more sets, or holding some extra weight to keep 3x5 > sufficiently challenging? The reason I've stuck to a slower > schedule on > lowering the support is just that I want to give my knees > time to adapt, > but I don't know whether they need the extra time. I'm surely no expert here but my inclination is that you will do better to go deeper rather than heavier or more reps. You want to get the full motion down as quickly as you are safely able rather than increasing your ability to do more light reps or adding weight. If it were me and I was bored at 3x5 at the current height and had zero pain anywhere in my joints I would go down to the next level. You can always go back up if you start to get pain. As suggested, let pain be your guide. LOL Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > > > I don't know what I'll wind up doing, but I'll certainly be > > cautious. I > > can't afford surgery and physical therapy, so it's an > > absolute requirement > > that I avoid them. But that said, it sounds from your story > > like plain > > swings might have been just as damaging if you did too many > > of them and/or > > did swings with too much weight. So... > > Yes. Exactly. > > My opinion is that your 44 pound bell is not light. You are a big guy but > at both end ranges of the swing you will be controlling the bell with your > arm/shoulder. Most likely parts of your arm are strong enough to work the > bell and other parts may not be. If I had as much connective tissue > dysfunction as you are describing I would be going very, very, very slowly. > A few sets a day and increase over a period of weeks. I understand that > many others find my suggestions too easy/slow/boring but they aren't sitting > here chewing on oxycontin to relieve the pain of a $30,000 shoulder repair. > > On the other hand, I'm not trying to frighten you. I just completed a short > cycle of KB workouts with my previously repaired left arm prior to this > surgery and I will be going back to them as soon as I'm able. My general > rule of thumb is that I'm using only bells that feel light enough for me to > control. I started off with a 26 pounder for a week and worked myself up to > a 36 for some exercises. I've been using the 53 for some cleans and squats. > Keeping total reps low. I've introduced a bunch of grinding exercises and > reduced the ballistic ones until I feel like I've worked my way into them > and all the parts of my body are handling them well. > > Ron General agreement I think as to the core of your message - be cautious until you learn how you are going to react to the ballistic exercises if you haven't done them before. I have a very good idea now about what to expect. After a few weeks I think you become familiar with how you should feel when things are working correctly, and you shouldn't continue if you think that you might be starting to injure yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 > > Gene- > > >Actually, the intermediate weights were made available at the request of > >users. It is quite difficult to make the jump from 36 to 53 pounds, or 53 > >to 72 pounds with some exercises. > > Oh? Not surprising, I guess, but if traditional kettlebells were just > available in a few weights, is greater granularity really necessary? It > seems to me you could just throttle back on the number of exercises > immediately after making a jump until ready for the more difficult > ones. Though I suppose there's no reason to argue against the option of > greater granularity if you can afford it. I'd say that they are extremely valuable. Necessary? Well, of course not. I think that much of the impulse to build these weights came from people who were, to some degree or other, practicing kettlesport: jerk, long cycle, and snatch. It is simply easier to progress if the weight jump is less than approximately 17 pounds. But if you're not interested in this at all, and just want to do a variety of exercises to stay in shape, then no, they are not necessary. However, I think that you'll find that there will be exercises that you could manage with one weight that you simply cannot do with one that is 17# heavier, and that is probably accentuated with 2 kettlebell exercises. > > >In Russia they have adjustable kettlebells, so it is easier. Dragondoor > >claims that they would be prohibitively expensive, but they are now being > >offered by (forget the name of the company - usakettlebells, maybe?), and > >are apparently pretty good. > > Hmm, interesting. USKettlebells.com. $200 shipped per adjustable > kettlebell, so a pair would be $400 -- not at all cheap, but it would be > cheaper than amassing a whole bunch of different sizes of standard bells, > though more expensive than graduating from one weight to the next and > selling the previous weight (which I know you recommend against). The main > problem (which wouldn't be relevant for everyone) is that it maxes out at > 70.5#. > Well, I think that they are planning to offer a kit to add even more weight (can't recall). But, you could always then get a pair of the 88's from Dragondoor eventually, or even the Max Kettlebells which come up to 145 lbs, I think. I'd like to get those at one point just to do farmer's walks with... In any case, if you just want to use the Dragondoor weights, it's faster to just pick up another pair, rather than add weights or remove weights from an adjustable set. I think that (other than cost) the reason to get the adjustable ones would be that you can easily get to even finer gradations of weight. I intend to get this at some point, because I think that they will help me improve. I think that the psychological factor is important too...it's good to vary both exercises and the weights that you're using, I think. Makes it more interesting, and it's easier to stay motivated. > >But, for the most part, the hype is objectionable. I think that they go > >way overboard. > > Yeah, no kidding. I wish someone would do some quality research on whether > huge hype is even worthwhile. I dislike it strongly, and I'd think that it > turns off a fair number of people, so I'd like to find out that it's not > economically wise (that it either turns off too many people or limits the > long-term viability of the hyped product or trend by sparking backlash -- > or both) but then again maybe the more hype the better, from a bottom-line > perspective. Well, I think that kettlebell training works really well. Part of it is that I've been able to stay interested in strength and endurance training, pretty much for 3 years, whereas I always hated strength training previously, and never could keep at it. But I don't like the 'vibe' of Dragondoor. Part of it is the hype, part of it is the cult. And much of it is the militaristic/over the top 'patriotism' of most of its members, including Pavel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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