AntIbiotics

April 19, 2000

Thanks for all the information.

>I've taken oil of oregano and caprylic acid in the past, but my naturopath

>felt that I also had parasites besides the candida, so she put me on an

>anti-parasite formula that also kills candida. It's a combination formula

>that has berberine sulfate, grapefruit seed extract, gentian root,

>goldenseal, sweet Annie, Quassia, black walnut green outer hull, and garlic

>bulb. And as I said, I'm also taking olive leaf extract. I also take

>probiotics, vitamins, fiber, and other supplements for other things.

>

>Thinking about garlic bulb, you might consider taking garlic too. It's one

>of those things that are easy to find, either in pill form or you can use

>whole garlic from the grocery store, and can be taken for long periods of

>time without much problems. The pills usually don't cause the bad breath

>that whole garlic does.

>

>lindaj@...

>

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August 2, 2000

We know they cause candida........

In the United States, farm animals receive 30 times the antibiotics

that people do - not so

much to treat infection, but to make the animals grow faster on less

feed. Though perfectly

legal, the practice is, in effect, promoting the selection of

antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Some of these

bacteria can cause human diseases that physicians are finding difficult

to treat. The practice is

adding to the general worldwide crisis of drug-resistant disease. Each

year, 60,000 Americans die

because their medications were ineffective in combating bacterial

strains.

October 17, 2000

Hello,

To contribute, I wanted to relay that you could ask your Lyme Literate

physician about a prescription called Aricept. My neurologist has me on

this, due to my lyme diseaes causing my cognitive memory problems, and it has

helped me. I am not perfect, but I am now able to take a once a week/ for 16

weeks -Management related course provided by my employer. I may not be a " A "

student, but I am still able to take this course and am doing satisfactorily

in class. I want to think it is just me improving on my own, but I have

been on Aricept this April this year, and have started this class the last

week on August this year. I just wanted to pass this information on, so

that it is something to also speak to your personal physician about, should

you also have cognitive memory problems from Lyme disease.

Thank you,

Alan

(Southern New Jersey)

Farmhaven2@...

October 17, 2000

Sue:

The worst problems with Bb infection (in my opinion) are the cognitive

problems -- difficulty learning, attention deficit, depression, memory loss,

vocabulary loss.

[ ] antibiotics

> Hi all,

>

> Is anyone sorry he/she had antibiotic treatment for Lyme? Does anyone

think

> he/she would be better off today if antibiotics had not been taken?

Absolutely not.

The devastation this disease has caused in my life because it was not

treated for 18 years _far_ outweighs the risk that would have been involved

with potentially unneeded antibiotic treatment.

There are risks associated with antibiotic treatment. Liver and gall bladder

damage are two of them (depending on the antibiotic). Chosing any medical

treatment regimen is a balancing of the dangers of doing nothing with the

dangers and benefits of the treatment.

With two positive PCRs, antibiotic treatment is more than warranted -- even

if the samples were contaminated. (By the way, why are these doctors

continuing to use a lab they think is contaminating two out of five

samples???).

If you cannot fire your pediatrician for some reason and work solely with

the LLMD, try getting another PCR test from IGeneX. Remember, a PCR test can

only be positive if there is a spirochete in the tested sample.

Bb hides out in the cells, nervous system and interstitial spaces of the

body, and also goes into a cyctic form where it is dormant (from the immune

system's point of view). It also travels directly through flesh, swimming

between cells. There does not need to be a host of spirochetes in the

bloodstream for there to be an infection.

As a parent with a daughter who has had Lyme, and as a person who has had

untreated Lyme for 18 years, my advice is: get her thoroughly treated

through whatever means you can -- it will effect her entire life.

Ken

>

> Best,

> Sue B.

> upstate New York

October 17, 2000

> Hi all,

>

> Is anyone sorry he/she had antibiotic treatment for Lyme? Does

anyone think

> he/she would be better off today if antibiotics had not been taken?

>

Sue -

It is so weird that you asked these questions. Last night, while

driving home from work, I was thinking the same exact thing. In a

way, after I was thinking those thoughts about not taking the abx, I

was saying to myself " Are you crazy? " Sometimes, I feel very

helpless.....these meds aren't working, this will never go away,

etc. But then I think that there is some strange disease living in

my body & I have to make it go away....these meds are the only thing

that can kill it.

I have asked myself the same questions you posed.

What does everyone think about these questions?????

~

October 17, 2000

Good question! I am beginning to wonder that myself. I have had so many Drs.

disagree with what I am on, yet I am better. I can't figure it.

October 17, 2000

Hi Everyone. I have been off line for awhile due to personal problems, etc.,

but glad to be back on the list . As for the questions about

" Is anyone sorry he/she had antibiotic treatment for Lyme? Does anyone think

he/she would be better off today if antibiotics had not been taken? "

I have to say something here. I work for a LLMD and I can tell you that we

have had some patients come in that went undiagnosed and untreated for many

years because other doctors simply could not determine what was wrong with

them. This is a disease that progresses. It progresses at different rates

in different people and in fact some people go their entire life most likely,

without even knowing they have it!

Many, if not all of the symptoms, can be attributed to other diseases and

conditions. My point here is, like the smoker who never gets lung cancer,

how can we be sure we are not the one that will?? How do we know that left

untreated we may deteriorate to the point of having to be in a wheelchair and

totally disabled? This can happen with Lyme disease. I have seen it too

many times. Unfortunately, once we get to that point, it is almost

impossible to reverse the damage. As bad as I feel some days (most days

lately) I can't see taking that chance. I am making slow progress. Babesia

has been eradicated. Working on Ehrlichia & Lyme still with Doryx and it's

hell some days. My only consolation is knowing those darn chetes are dying

off when I feel lousy. Patience is important in this disease. If you have

had it a long time, it may take longer for recovery or remission. But I'll

take that chance. Talk to your doctor about any concerns of this nature.

You should be able to do that. I wish you all better days and restful

nights. Glad to be back .

Blessings,

Lorraine

October 17, 2000

I would not be alive had it not of been for antibiotics.whether the disease

got me or suicide I dont know.Janet

>From: rhbailey@...

>Reply- egroups

> egroups

>Subject: [ ] antibiotics

>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:23:04 -0400

>

>Hi all,

>

>Is anyone sorry he/she had antibiotic treatment for Lyme? Does anyone think

>he/she would be better off today if antibiotics had not been taken?

>

>Best,

>Sue B.

>upstate New York

>

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October 19, 2000

Lorraine-

THANK YOU for the truth!!!!!

I will relate and tell you.... my husband would be dead, no exaggeration, if

it was not for antibiotics (and of course a FANTASTIC lyme dr.!!!!!!). In

Jan. 1998, he stopped breathing, could not walk, out cold. 911, ER, 'it is

nothing' ---next time 'it is Grave's disease', etc. etc. We had many dx that

I never heard of before but quickly learned all about them. For the next 2

months he was barely existing (he is our sole support-yikes!!!) supporting 8

people. You all have heard this, but my neighbor, angel and now my best

friend came into our lives and gave us an A-Z education on lyme. You see, she

paid the price for many of us. For 10yrs. she has done every conventional as

well as alternative method of trying to eradicate lyme. She had an IV in her

arm, caring for her sickly in-laws that lived with her, took care of her

husband and 3 kids--all with lyme AND the co-infections. She would be dead

too if not for antibiotics. As for me, I feel very strongly the same way. I ha

ve been on them 2 yrs. now and I am living proof that antibiotics DO NOT

compromise my immune system.....I have not been sick in 2 yrs. not even a

cold. I strongly feel it is a myth. That is MY OPINION (so I don't get

blasted). and I have tried doing 'au natural' and have found it just

doesn't do it. You can boost your immune system by various remedies but it

does NOT eradicate the symptoms like antibiotics do. I strongly advise all to

be tested for the co-infections because as it turns out, I recently found out

I have them and ALL of us here do. THAT could be why some are not 'getting

better' by just treating the lyme is not enough. Just a suggestion........

One more note, there have been many how we seem to be so advanced, have

wonderful new technology, discovering 'new' all the time, and lyme cannot be

eradicated or even have something that will prevent it. I also believe that

there are thousands and thousands that have lyme and don't know it. (I have a

sister, bit, bull's eye, is now suffering headaches, lower abdominal pain,

eye problems, etc.--and refuses to hear the word 'lyme'--a mother, father,

step-mother, etc too)

My brother-in-law was almost in a wheelchair, dxd with MS in 1985, then

summer 1999, I pleaded with him to no end to see a lyme dr. He did, Positive.

Getting better all the time.

I feel so strongly about this disease that I know sometimes I go a little

overboard but it is so personal to me.

sue in nj

wishing you good health

October 19, 2000

Sue,

Couldn't help but respond to your story about antibiotics. We have all

suffered at the hands of idiots who all refused to diagnose us. I too was

told I had all sorts of things like atypical arthritis, but mostly that I was

depressed and stressed and should see a shrink and get on medications. After

about 9 months of going crazy, and having ideation's of suicide, I found a

LLMD. You know the rest. I was put on zithro and doxy for about 4 or 5

months, slowly started getting better, started on flagyl, the brain fog

cleared, the eyes stopped crossing, I made it home without getting lost, I

remembered my name - and now 11 months later, still on ABs; now on biaxin,

vantin, flagyl, mepron off and on and bicillin shots. I am soooo much better.

Probably 85% better. Most symptoms have gone, some residual stuff, but I am

now able to do things that I used too. I too was very active - hopefully I

will get back to being myself. Hooray for antibiotics and LL doc! Take care

KIM

October 19, 2000

Thanks Sue for sharing your personal experience with us. I know how much you

and your family (and neighbors!) have suffered. You are living proof though

of how well continuous antibiotics work to keep us functioning and productive

people. I know that without the medications I would not be able to hold down

a job working 35 hours a week, being a single Mom, and taking care of

everything else in my life. Thank God for wonderful friends and family. It

also helps to be around Lyme patients most of the day. It is like having my

own personal support group between the patients and the doctor and my

co-workers. I wish you and your family the best of health and that goes for

everyone on this list as well. Hang in there. We will beat this thing. We

are the pioneers in a new territory in medicine. Now that the patients are

speaking out and getting involved and informed about Lyme and other tickborne

diseases, our cause is moving forward. Our individual cases are paving the

way for treatments and cures of the future.

Blessings,

Lorraine

October 20, 2000

In a message dated 10/17/00 9:07:41 AM, kmakransky@... writes:

<< Last night, while

driving home from work, I was thinking the same exact thing. In a

way, after I was thinking those thoughts about not taking the abx, I

was saying to myself " Are you crazy? " Sometimes, I feel very

helpless.....these meds aren't working, this will never go away,

etc. >>

and Sue, for what it's worth I often have the same doubts, and once in

(what I think is) a clear moment I stop and say to myself, " Hey, wait a

minute. You have a disease; your LLMD is treating you; part of the disease

is the inability to think clearly so of course you're going to have doubts

and fears and wonder if you'll ever be 'cured' by all these antibiotics. "

--charlotte in vermont

April 16, 2001

i agree Rick - colloidal silver would be my first action

wendy

Antibiotics

I developed an infection on my temple near my face and my HMO doctor who has

never done anything regarding my candidiasis want me to take massive

antibiotics. I have low or non-existent beneficial bacteria in my gut and

have been taking probiotics to reestablish them. I am afraid whatever I

have regained will be lost and my yeast overgrowth was the result to taking

too many antibiotics in the past. I have communicated this to the doctor

and she dismisses my concerns. I need to do something about the infection

on my head and wonder if I have any other recourse. Is there any other way

to try to handle the HMO doctor? She just refers me to a private doctor who

has been treating the candidiasis in my gut and refuses to learn.

Rick

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April 16, 2001

Rick

Try applying Colloidal Silver locally at the infection site, and take about

1/4 cup twice daily. Hope you can get a cheap source, but it is preferable

to abx if you feel you don't want them.]

Antibiotics

> I developed an infection on my temple near my face and my HMO doctor who

has

> never done anything regarding my candidiasis want me to take massive

> antibiotics. I have low or non-existent beneficial bacteria in my gut and

> have been taking probiotics to reestablish them. I am afraid whatever I

> have regained will be lost and my yeast overgrowth was the result to

taking

> too many antibiotics in the past. I have communicated this to the doctor

> and she dismisses my concerns. I need to do something about the infection

> on my head and wonder if I have any other recourse. Is there any other

way

> to try to handle the HMO doctor? She just refers me to a private doctor

who

> has been treating the candidiasis in my gut and refuses to learn.

>

> Rick

> _________________________________________________________________

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July 13, 2001

Garlic is great! i once asked my Dr. how much is to much because my husband was complaining it was burning HIS eyes & he said "i guess that would be enough" but once you start eating it you can't stop, The effects on the body are always good. of course i don't eat it getting close to going somewhere, i'll stop a day in advance! Ha!

Mogdrmom

July 13, 2001

I eat lots of raw garlic. nothing else.... The effects can be measured after about 4 hrs i can feel the need to eat more

July 13, 2001

Thanks for all the information. I will try and hold off a little longer...it is just that my ears are getting so plugged it is throwing my equalibrium off.

Ruth I will have you send me a sample to try of your Hydrogren Plus...I need something. I will send you my addy later today.

I am going to get off here now and take some more garlic...Whewwwwwwwwww thanks for the responses all....you are all the BEST! I think if I ever get cured of this stuff...I am still gonna hang out on this list! )))

moons

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July 13, 2001

Hi (I'm so happy to find this list.)

I've been fighting a upper resp infection for over two weeks now, and

finally feel like I might be kicking it. I gave in and took dayquil

and nitequil and I started back to taking Candistroy and the sinus

conjestion is lessening a lot. Not sure if it's because the virus

has run it's course or if the Candistroy is helping out with the

sinuses too.

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone out there uses Candistroy? I think

Nature Secret puts it out. I find it's the only thing that kills

candidiasis for me. I suffer so bad with it and I'm taking this

stuff off and on for 7 months. When it all clears up I can stop for

a couple of weeks, but so far eventually the infections come back.

Candistroy has a blend of high tannic herbs, and also a bottle of

acifidolphus... So far, I've not found anything that will kill the

yeast like this does. I break out in horrible acne like bumps around

my hairline, around my ears, neck and face, I also get other skin

related problems caused by yeast. I've already had my gall bladder

out and a hysterectomy and I still get yeast infections.

In January, I started the Atkins diet and realized I had a huge yeast

problem. I was such a mess, and felt I was just going to die. After

my mom died, I really just started falling apart. I'm doing a lot

better now, I've lost 35 lbs, and been able to stop taking prilosec

(for acid reflux), and I stopped taking the antibiotics the

dermatologist had me on for the last couple of years. I also stopped

taking some of the antidepressants. I still take Inderal and

wellbutrin, and tons of Candistroy.

I hate pills... I can't even take the supplements I'm supposed to be

taking. I can't do it. I have to force the candistroy down me and

I'm only able to do it because my skin hurts so bad and it's the only

think that will heal it. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever get

rid of it for good and I'm beginning to believe that I won't.

I haven't been able to give up the coffee yet, and I know that that

doesn't help. I just don't know why it keeps coming back so bad.

I just got some cranberry, and grape seed extract today, I sure hope

that it helps.

Does anyone have any other ideas on what I can take that will help

keep it away. I take acifidolphus when I'm done with the

candistroy. This stuff is so expensive... and I choke on the dang

pills.

LC

> Hi Moons,

>

> This is the rock and the hard place isn't it? I reckon if there are

not many choices left - then there is something else you can do. Take

the antibiotics and take a good pro-biotic after the course of the

antibiotics. I would take the pro-biotic for like a month or more for

a weeks worth of antibiotics. Antibiotics kills the good flora in our

digestive system. The good flora is the thing that keeps candida from

forming into the yeast infection that we are so familiar with! So,

the pro-biotics contain the good flora that can replace what was

killed by the antibiotics. I don't have a technical understanding of

which pro-biotics are better than others - or which form they should

come in...however, I'm sure someone on the list might know it.

>

> Some people take the pro-biotic during the course of the anti-

biotics.

>

> You could eat yoghurt that has the pro-biotic added or just get the

ones in the health food shop which are in capsules or powder form.

>

> The other thing too - is you probably want to make sure that the

infection is bacterial rather than viral. Cos if its a viral

infection then the anti-biotics is going to do diddly squat but kill

off the good flora in your digestive system. I'm not sure how easy it

is for you to find out if the infection is viral or bacterial - as

some doctors are really reluctant to do a simple swab and send it off

to the lab to find out (WHICH BTW really ticks me off - so many

people have antibiotics just plain don't need them and then end up

our boat.....).

<snip>

January 12, 2002

I have seen a similar posting before and I wanted to get input ----

My son is on Amoxicillin - for a secondary ear infection. He is 3 and 1/2 years

and is dx PDD-NOS.

I have noticed since he has been on this medicine that his verbal stimming and

general stimming behaviors are down. He is also making better eye contact and

talking more and his speech is more appropriate.

What does this mean??? Obviously something has changed. Do antibiotics kill

good and bad yeast and is that the reason for the difference?

It will be interesting to see if the stimming behaviors increase when the

antibiotics are completed. I will keep you " posted. "

CJW

January 12, 2002

CJW,

I noticed the same things with my son. Antiobiotics don't kill the yeast but

bacteria, both good and bad. It shows that there is alot of bad bacteria

affecting your child's symptoms. The problem is, that after you go off the

antiobiotics, the problems worsen since the good bacteria is gone and the bad

comes back worse.

I've recently made a discovery about my child - We were able to have the yeast

and clostridia to normal levels for about one week and my son was as normal

behaving as I have ever seen him. It affected communication, socialization,

temper, transitions, etc. With my child, it doesn't affect sleep at all

(thankfully). I now know that high clostridia makes him meaner (more yelling

and hitting when he doesn't get his way). High yeast is just more spacey and

lower articulation. He drools more but I'm not sure which one this applies to.

Working for Great Plains Lab, I have been following him weekly watching his

progress or regression as we are trying different things to see if they work.

Its been REALLY educational. The ONE lab we have where CLostridia is almost

normal and yeast is WAY down, all the markers that have been consistently hight

in the Krebs Cycle, Neurotransmitter, Amino Acid Metabolites, Fatty Acid

Metabolites, and some in the Miscellaneious categories ALL reverted back to

normal. It was INCREDIBLE. THen, when the numbers shot way up again, the

abnormal markers returned. Both Dr. Shaw and Dr. Amy Holmes responded that they

all suspected that severe gut dysbiosis plays a major part in throwing our

childs metabolism, energy production, brain functioning etc completely out of

whack. That is why it is so important not to take getting rid of the yeast and

bacteria lightly.

Now all we need is someone to tell us how to help these CHRONIC kids who are

never able to get the bugs out and keep them out. My kid is one of them and we

are using him as a study case and doing frequent tests to see if anything works.

I'll keep you informed if we come up with any good news. I really appreciate

Dr. Shaw 's willingness to use the lab's resources to find answers to help our

kids.

If anyone has found something that has helped your severe kid's problems on a

long-term basis, let me know.

Lori Knowles

January 13, 2002

Hi Lori,

My son had a really bad yeast/parasites problem.

For a year and a half, I tried everything I could think of, everything was in my

powers, to help him get rid of it! In all this time, the problem would go away

for a week or so and would come back worse. He was regressing each day, because

with each round of treatment, I would make those " stupid animals " come back each

time, worse.

After a year and a half, I gave up My son couldn't take all those treatment

anymore, anyway. He was having gastrointestinal problems already, so... I was

only making the problems worse.

I was lucky though to find out two months ago (or so) about chelation and... I

was courageous enough to actually get started

(In all this time I stopped any treatment for yeast or parasites)

Well... after a month and a half of chelation, I can say that I don't see any of

those visible signs of yeast/parasites, you know... I didn't do any test lately,

because it doesn't seem like necessary. I am sure the problem still exists, but

I don't think it's that bad anymore... I think his body is able now to take care

of the problem naturally. Also, I think his intestines are getting healthy

I am convinced that with more chelation, next time when I'll try antifungals

will work a lot easier an faster.

Valentina

> CJW,

>

> I noticed the same things with my son. Antiobiotics don't kill the yeast but

bacteria, both good and bad. It shows that there is alot of bad bacteria

affecting your child's symptoms. The problem is, that after you go off the

antiobiotics, the problems worsen since the good bacteria is gone and the bad

comes back worse.

>

> I've recently made a discovery about my child - We were able to have the yeast

and clostridia to normal levels for about one week and my son was as normal

behaving as I have ever seen him. It affected communication, socialization,

temper, transitions, etc. With my child, it doesn't affect sleep at all

(thankfully). I now know that high clostridia makes him meaner (more yelling

and hitting when he doesn't get his way). High yeast is just more spacey and

lower articulation. He drools more but I'm not sure which one this applies to.

>

> Working for Great Plains Lab, I have been following him weekly watching his