AntIbiotics

[Guest guest]

Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract as

you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our

nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves?

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> > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning,

electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html

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> > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse "

effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature,

but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side

effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can

occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles,

numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks,

and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S.

Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35)

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> > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm

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> > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible,

has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment

(creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated

serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B

deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral

neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm

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> > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN

PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD

BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY

REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH.

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> >

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> > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY

FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND

GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE

MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS

WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL

RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm#

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[Guest guest]

I wouldn't say it's killing nerves....but what is most probably happening is

that gut imbalance causes inflammation systemically.  Inflammation causes lots

of pain as well as immune dysfunction issues.  So my thought is that's what's

causing the pain.

nancy j.

Help TACA win $50,000. Please vote every day in November.

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From: S <augold123@...>

Subject: Re: Antibiotics

Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 8:22 AM

 

Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract

as you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our

nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves?

>

> >

>

> > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning,

electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse "

effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature,

but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side

effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can

occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles,

numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks,

and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S.

Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35)

>

> > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible,

has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment

(creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated

serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B

deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral

neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN

PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD

BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY

REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH.

>

> >

>

> > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY

FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND

GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE

MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS

WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL

RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm#

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[Guest guest]

The risk with Cipro (and other fluoroquinolones) is not just loss of good

bacteria in the GI tract.  With this line of antibiotics, there is a risk

of peripheral neuropathy, among other things.

 

I'm not sure if doctors know WHY there has been nerve damage in some

rare cases with this type of antibiotic, but there are some reported cases,

which is why the labeling was changed in 2004 to include a warning.  Here's an

excerpt from the FDA letter...

 

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/appletter/2004/19537s053,054,20780\

s017,018ltr.pdf

 

Peripheral neuropathy: Rare cases of sensory or sensorimotor axonal

polyneuropathy

affecting small and/or large axons resulting in paresthesias, hypoesthesias,

dysesthesias and

weakness have been reported in patients receiving quinolones, including

ciprofloxacin.

Ciprofloxacin should be discontinued if the patient experiences symptoms of

neuropathy

including pain, burning, tingling, numbness, and/or weakness, or is found to

have deficits in

light touch, pain, temperature, position sense, vibratory sensation, and/or

motor strength in

order to prevent the development of an irreversible condition.

 

From: S <augold123@...>

Subject: Re: Antibiotics

Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 8:22 AM

 

Right, thanks. I'm aware antibiotics kill bacteria - e.g., in our GI tract as

you mention. But why do antibiotics - some evidently - adversely affect our

nerves? What specifically in the antibiotic is killing our nerves?

>

> >

>

> > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning,

electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse "

effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature,

but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side

effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can

occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles,

numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks,

and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S.

Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35)

>

> > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible,

has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment

(creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated

serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B

deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral

neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN

PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD

BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY

REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH.

>

> >

>

> > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY

FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND

GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE

MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS

WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL

RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm#

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[Guest guest]

The following is a major simplification, and has been dredged up from my far

past. I hope Holly will fill in where this is lacking ...

EVERYTHING we take in, whether it's food, happy drugs, prescribed medication,

" natural " medication, herbals, etc., whatever, eventually operates on our cell

walls in some fashion.

Cell walls have receptors on their surfaces. The chemicals (see above) that we

take in have " thingys (ligands?) " on their surface that match to these

receptors, and that allow the chemical to either enter the cell or bind to it.

While not all types of cells have the same receptors, some receptors are shared

among different cell types. Some vastly different function cells have the same

receptors (probably some embryological thing). Also, some or our human cell wall

receptors are very similar in structure to receptors for other species.

So, a medication/drug/chemical that was found (or was attempted to be designed)

to operate on a certain type of cell wall receptor may affect different cells.

Sometimes, not so good, as with aminoglycosides and the vestibulocochlear

(hearing) nerve.

The goal is for a chemical to be structured or shaped so that its " thingys

(ligands?) " match or bind to the receptors of the target cells and to no other

types of cells. At this point in chemical design, it's not always possible to do

this.

I'm not sure this helps, but it's the way I remember it.

>

> Right, I am aware of the possible adverse affects.

>

> But, is there anyone who can explain the 'why/how'? i.e., What about the

antibiotic is so destructive to cells?

>

(snip)

[Guest guest]

OK, here is my MD explanation attempt: There are thousands of different types of

anti-biotics. The name literally means " against life " but really the goal and

focus is to develop compounds that kill bacteria without harming humans. That's

hard because we both have life. Fortunately, bacteria are made of cells that are

slightly different from mammalian(higher order creatures) cells. We have

eukaryotic cells (lit: good cell) and bacteria are made of prokaryotic cells

(lit: early or proto cell). Since there are some fundamental differences between

eukaryotes and prokaryotes, that is what scientists have used to targeted drugs.

That way a eukaryotic being can swallow something that is harmful to prokaryotes

and be fine while the bacteria dies.

Ah. If it were only so simple. Thankfully, for mankind, this works pretty well

most of the time and it has revolutionized our health in the last century.

However, it is foolish to think that each drug only has one restricted function

or that the compound that it's mixed in will be strictly inert. There is lots of

overlap in chemical signatures on our cell surfaces and eukaryotic cells can be

damaged in the course of killing prokaryotes. Some of the eukaryotic cells

(depending on function -e.g. nerves)may have some of the markers that are being

targeted in the bacterial cell. Injury to innocent bystander cells is what we

call an adverse effect.

Often an adverse effect is completely expected and we take the drug anyway

because the benefit is greater than the risk (example: chemotherapy depletes the

bone marrow causing anemia, bleeding and susceptibility to infection, but the

benefit is eradication of a malignant tumor). Sometimes the adverse effect is

unexpected and expressed in a particular population (example: most of the drugs

on the CMTers do not take list). Sometimes a particular adverse effect is

happening in everyone, but only those who already had deficits in that area show

symptoms. Eukaryotic cells are unbelievably complex and their balance can be

thrown off in many unintended ways.

Bottom line: Give some thought to risk vs. benefit when you are prescribed any

drug. If I have a cold and am given antibiotics " just in case " there may be a

bacterial infection or to prevent it, I'm going to say the risk is not worth the

benefit (because there is likely no benefit). However, if I have a festering

infected finger I will take the antibiotics in a heartbeat because the risk is

losing my finger and maybe even my life if it gets in the bloodstream.

Pay attention to new symptoms and report them. Ask for a change in drugs to

something equivalent if you feel that you are having an adverse reaction.

Keep Gretchen's list of do not take drugs for CMT and make sure your doctor

knows what to avoid.

Holli

> >

> > May cause joint, muscle, or tendon pain or rupture, nerve pain (burning,

electrical sensations, tingling), muscle weakness

http://www.medicationsense.com/articles/july_sept_03/reactions_cipro_other.html

> >

> >

> > Dizziness, headaches, seizures and psychosis are well known " adverse "

effects of these antibiotics. What is not considered common in the literature,

but is outlined in many patient forums and in a medical study of the side

effects, is the various other neurological symptoms of these drugs, that can

occur in as many as7% of patients. These symptoms include pins and needles,

numbness, tingling, muscle and joint pain, palpitations, malaise, panic attacks,

and anxiety. (Peripheral Neuropathy Associated with Fluoroquinolones, Jay S.

Cohen, The ls of Pharmacotherapy, 2001 December, Volume 35)

> > http://thyroid.about.com/cs/thyroiddrugs/a/sideeffects.htm

> >

> >

> > Neurologic: Peripheral neuropathy, which may become severe or irreversible,

has occurred. Fatalities have been reported. Conditions such as renal impairment

(creatinine clearance under 60 mL per minute or clinically significant elevated

serum creatinine), anemia, diabetes mellitus, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B

deficiency, and debilitating diseases may increase the possibility of peripheral

neuropathy. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm

> >

> >

> > ACUTE, SUBACUTE, OR CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS HAVE BEEN OBSERVED IN

PATIENTS TREATED WITH NITROFURANTOIN. IF THESE REACTIONS OCCUR, MACROBID SHOULD

BE DISCONTINUED AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES TAKEN. REPORTS HAVE CITED PULMONARY

REACTIONS AS A CONTRIBUTING CAUSE OF DEATH.

> >

> > CHRONIC PULMONARY REACTIONS (DIFFUSE INTERSTITIAL PNEUMONITIS OR PULMONARY

FIBROSIS, OR BOTH) CAN DEVELOP INSIDIOUSLY. THESE REACTIONS OCCUR RARELY AND

GENERALLY IN PATIENTS RECEIVING THERAPY FOR SIX MONTHS OR LONGER. CLOSE

MONITORING OF THE PULMONARY CONDITION OF PATIENTS RECEIVING LONG-TERM THERAPY IS

WARRANTED AND REQUIRES THAT THE BENEFITS OF THERAPY BE WEIGHED AGAINST POTENTIAL

RISKS. http://www.rxlist.com/macrobid-drug.htm#

> >

>

[Guest guest]

And remember friends, I think it was last month sometime I posted interesting

news about how our DNA can also affect how medications affect us (this was just

not for people with CMT, but for everyone) I can't remember the title of the

article, but when I do (lol) will repost.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Fantastic explanation! Just so you know, we were writing simultaneously and I

didn't see your post before typing mine. Your ligand thingy's are my " chemical

signature's " -- ligand thingy is even better! Holli

> >

> > Right, I am aware of the possible adverse affects.

> >

> > But, is there anyone who can explain the 'why/how'? i.e., What about the

antibiotic is so destructive to cells?

> >

> (snip)

>

[Guest guest]

Hollie,

What a brillant explanation.  The common people will under this article.

 

Eilish

[Guest guest]

Trudy,I feel your pain sweetie.  This whole Christmas Shopping hoopla has had me in dire straits lately.  I went this morning to finish up.. this entailed one trip to Wally World for a X-Box 360 game for the hubs, and a few little things and a trip into s for some really strong  craft glue so I can put Ian's shadow boxes together...  I went to Wal Mart first.  I hate that store.  I pretty much hate all stores with concrete floors now.  I got in there and within 5 minutes I was leaning on the cart trying not to cry.  I managed to get the 5 things on my list and get out of there but I didn't think I would make it to my car...  I was the first car after the handicapped spots.  I sat in my car for 10 minutes before driving to s to get the glue.  Walked in there, thought I was fine.. went right to the glue aisle and barely made it out of that store as well...  Home in just over an hour.  Now the pain has subsided.  I hate it.  But I am thru with stores now.  I hope.  

Hugs,TeriOn Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 11:29 AM, trudykinsey@... <trudykinsey@...> wrote:

 

Oh No ! I dont ask Whats Next! I seem to be fated to have an endless supply of Whats Next!  I will only use the placard where neccesary. Hubby was against it until he actually saw that the walk from the parking place required 10-15 min rest once inside.the past few days I am having real problems with my legs. I stand & they aren't there. I fall back into the chair. " What Next ? " LoL

http://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877   "       " A well- behaved woman never made history " ...Mae West

http://oktravels.wordpress.com http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx

  

--  

Teri Gottlieb

MOVE ON.  It's just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book.  Just turn the page.

[Guest guest]

TrudyI can really understand. I don't fall anymore; but, anyone with me knows that I can't do - say Wal-Mart, without using a buggy to lean onGloria

Oh No ! I dont ask Whats Next! I seem to be fated to have an endless supply of Whats Next! I will only use the placard where neccesary. Hubby was against it until he actually saw that the walk from the parking place required 10-15 min rest once inside.the past few days I am having real problems with my legs. I stand & they aren't there. I fall back into the chair. " What Next ? " LoLhttp://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877 " "A well- behaved woman never made history"...Mae Westhttp://oktravels.wordpress.com http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx On Dec 22, 2010, at 12:14 AM, Gloria <gadamscan@...> wrote:

I sure hope so Trudy!! After all, you feel like shit from the treatment and then you get a bladder infection because your body is fighting the dragon so hard. Sometimes the question is - what's next??Gloria

Went to walkin clinic. Doc ask me if I ran a fever, if I hurt, was I nauseated. I told him, seriously, Doc, what part of chemo did you miss? But I was nice LoL. He gave me Cipro antibiotics after a culure of urine sample. I feel like especially bad crap right now. But I know I will feel better by tomorrow.

http://facebook.com/people/andTrudy-Kinsey/1340460877 "

"A well- behaved woman never made history"...Mae West

http://oktravels.wordpress.com

http://allrecipes.com/cook/TrudyK/profile.aspx