diet

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Dr. didn't have a diet sheet - it was Dr. Joe Mercola's. You'll

find it at rheumatic.org/diet.htm.

Chris.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Fain wrote:

> Anybody know where to access Dr. 's diet? Has it been

> removed with her relocating? I was wanting to send it to someone who

> made a request but cannot find it anywhere. Many thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi et al.

> Dr. didn't have a diet sheet - it was Dr. Joe Mercola's. You'll

> find it at rheumatic.org/diet.htm.

I've just had a look at this diet page, and it seems to me to be quite

extraordinary, appealing to all sorts of fad ideas. I am sure someone who

follows this diet would have some improvement, if starch is the real culprit

(as it is for many of us), as it does limit starch consumption. however,

>>>Sugar: Limiting sugar is CRITICAL. Eating refined sugar weakens your immune

system and promotes yeast overgrowth. All non-diet pops have 8 teaspoons in

each can. Most packaged cereals have sugar as their major ingredient. Avoid

most natural sweeteners (including corn syrup, fructose, honey, sucrose,

maltodextrin, dextrose, molasses, white grape juice, fruit juice sweetened,

brown rice syrup, maple syrup, date sugar, cane sugar, corn sugar, beet sugar,

succanat and lactose)

Confused. Sucrose is refined. Fructose is not - it is fruit sugar. Glucose (=

dextrose) is essential; you can't live without it. If you don't eat it

directly, your digestive system will synthesise it anyway from what you eat.

Most natural sugars in what we eat are in the form of fructose. You cannot

avoid fructose.

>>> Olive oil, coconut oil, and butter

are the only oils recommended for cooking. Avoid canola oil as it is not as

good as the ones previously listed.

Lie. Once heated, olive oil loses its valuable volatiles (fat-soluble

vitamins, antioxidants) and is then no better than canola oil (I studied

olive oil for 3 years so I should know!). That's why you should always add

yoru olive oil AFTER cooking! - and use top quality extra-virgin, which

retains more of these precious micronutrients. They are both good, however,

because of their mono/poly unsaturated to saturated ratios.

>>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

PC. This is an idealistic thing and won't affect your health at all

>>> Milk: It will be very important to stop all milk products. This includes not

only skim milk, but also ice cream, and especially cheese. Lactaid or

acidophilus milk is NOT acceptable. Raw milk (unpasteurized) would be

acceptable for most people but is not commercially available. Raw milk cheese

is acceptable for most people. It would be helpful to avoid yogurt as it is

made from pasteurized milk.

Confused. Cheese is often made with raw milk, which contradicts the statement

that follows. There is no reason why treated milk should be less healthy than

raw milk; indeed raw milk these days (at least in parts of europe) is

becoming a very dangerous commodity, as Bovine Tuberculosis is on the

increase at a frightening rate. Pasteurisation is only heating the milk to a

temperature which will kill off all pathogenic bacteria; it does not denature

the milk proteins or fats in any way.

>>> No Fruit Juices: Store bought fruit juices are frequently contaminated with

mold and it is best to avoid them. They also contain a huge source of refined

carbohydrates.

Lie. Pure fruit juices contain NO refined carbohydrate (otherwise they

wouldn't be pure would they?). Occasionally manufacturers will adulterate

" pure " fruit juices with sucrose and water, but this is of course illegal.

>>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

PC. This is idealistic again.

>>> Avoid or Limit Wheat.

>>> Avoid All Corn Products

Yes I agree with something!

>>> No Bananas /Oranges

Confused. The problem with bananas is starch, which unless eaten very ripe is

quite high. Oranges, so long as pith (which is high in starch) is not eaten,

are surely no worse than lemons or grapefruit. No rationale is given why

oranges are bad and strawberries are good.

>>> you should not use your current table salt.

Instead, obtain " Real Salt "

Lie. Sodium Chloride is Sodium Chloride. Period. Your current table salt

(unless it is one of these " Lo-Salt " things) is Sodium Chloride.

>>> Real Salt is in our office for $3.00.

Now you know what this is all about - making money

Look at all the other " health food " and other products that this article is

advertising; I think this is an extremely misleading, ill-thought-out, and at

worst plain sick, diet. How much did the author get paid by the companies

advertised?

Or maybe I'm just too cynical?

Regards,

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/19/00 3:49:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kglg@...

writes:

<< I just wanted to add some things I've learned, mainly from my naturopath,

things that have made a difference to me personally.

> >>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

>

> PC. This is an idealistic thing and won't affect your health at all

>

Not that idealistic. We've been able to find organic sources with very

little effort. For an estrogen-dominant woman, avoiding any extra source of

estrogen (given to animals for rapid growth) is probably quite beneficial. I

assume it is better for men too.

>

>

> >>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

>

> PC. This is idealistic again.

See above comment.

>

> >>> No Bananas /Oranges

>

> Confused. The problem with bananas is starch, which unless eaten very ripe

is

> quite high. Oranges, so long as pith (which is high in starch) is not

eaten,

> are surely no worse than lemons or grapefruit. No rationale is given why

> oranges are bad and strawberries are good.

>

>

Bananas have a lot of sugar. Oranges promote inflammation (lemons do not)

and apparently many people are sensitive/allergic to them due, in part, to a

tendency to have mould, I believe.

>>

Each individual has a different make up My homeopath has me off all dairy

including eggs .....organic or not

All meat, only fish and chicken

All sugar

Grapefruit,all nuts except almonds, chocolate,all grains except oats and

brown rice

Grapefruits and oranges... organic or not

all nightshade family

Mostly fresh vegetable and fruits are allowed sea vegetables a plus

I also grow most of my food so I know its organic.

Depending on where you are it is easier to get organic foods in the states.

I also incorporate chiropractic, massage, yoga,and loving hugs from friends

(along with my art and nature)along with diet and all the medication Im on

Im hoping it all works who knows...........

Each individual has their own experience

My own at times it is hard to tell for me if its the disease or the

medication or both that makes me sick.

I think we are all struggling for answers, hope and support and hopefully

gain that here.

I have always mostly eaten vegetarian so many of the diet changes dont effect

me and Ive always had allergies so I knew many foods weren't for me already.

Diet does make a difference

I think a lot of what says is right on.

I have AS and psoriatic arthritis

I have been on AP for 2 months. My meds are

minocin 100mg 2xday

azulfidine 300mg 2xday

vioxx 50mg 2xday

arava 20mg 1xday

I have always taken vitamins and herbs too many to list

with support and healing...........

June

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to add some things I've learned, mainly from my naturopath,

things that have made a difference to me personally.

> >>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

>

> PC. This is an idealistic thing and won't affect your health at all

>

Not that idealistic. We've been able to find organic sources with very

little effort. For an estrogen-dominant woman, avoiding any extra source of

estogen (given to animals for rapid growth) is probably quite beneficial. I

assume it is better for men too.

>

>

> >>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

>

> PC. This is idealistic again.

See above comment.

>

> >>> No Bananas /Oranges

>

> Confused. The problem with bananas is starch, which unless eaten very ripe

is

> quite high. Oranges, so long as pith (which is high in starch) is not

eaten,

> are surely no worse than lemons or grapefruit. No rationale is given why

> oranges are bad and strawberries are good.

>

>

Bananas have a lot of sugar. Oranges promote inflammation (lemons do not)

and apparently many people are sensitive/allergic to them due, in part, to a

tendency to have mould, I believe.

[Guest guest]

what is PC???? I'm drawing a blank - for the second day in a row on this.

;-(

Les

PC. This is an idealistic thing

----------------------------------------

From: " Ken and " <kglg@...>

<.Shaw@...>

CC: " rheumatic " <rheumaticegroups>

Subject: Re: rheumatic Re: Diet

Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:54:00 -0400

I just wanted to add some things I've learned, mainly from my naturopath,

things that have made a difference to me personally.

> >>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

>

> PC. This is an idealistic thing and won't affect your health at all

>

Not that idealistic. We've been able to find organic sources with very

little effort. For an estrogen-dominant woman, avoiding any extra source of

estogen (given to animals for rapid growth) is probably quite beneficial. I

assume it is better for men too.

>

>

> >>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

>

> PC. This is idealistic again.

See above comment.

>

> >>> No Bananas /Oranges

>

> Confused. The problem with bananas is starch, which unless eaten very

ripe

is

> quite high. Oranges, so long as pith (which is high in starch) is not

eaten,

> are surely no worse than lemons or grapefruit. No rationale is given why

> oranges are bad and strawberries are good.

>

>

Bananas have a lot of sugar. Oranges promote inflammation (lemons do not)

and apparently many people are sensitive/allergic to them due, in part, to a

tendency to have mould, I believe.

________________________________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

>>>Sugar: Limiting sugar is CRITICAL.

Amazingly, there is no RDA for carbs. Refined carbs and high-carb foods

(high glycemic) are the culprits which screw up our chemistry and

physiology.

Fiber levels out absorption. So, for example, eat the whole apple rather

than drinking only the juice.

For info see a Glycemic Index, The Zone, Sugar Busters, Sugar Blues, etc...

>>> Olive oil, coconut oil, and butter

Also avoid coconut oil.

>>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

>>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

Xeno extrogens, pesticide residues, factory farming filth..... We need to

ask for organic. The Consumer has the power to change the marketplace.

>>> Avoid or Limit Wheat.

>>> Avoid All Corn Products

>>> No Bananas /Oranges

... potatoes too (no more fries, no more corn chips, no popcorn)

Are all high-glycemic foods. Eg: a baked potato hits the blood stream

faster than table sugar.

>>> you should not use your current table salt.

Instead, obtain " Real Salt "

#Truth. Table salt contains aluminum. Read the label.

Is there anything left to eat?

; (

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Any sugars feed yeast

Yes, but you can't live without sugars. Fructose and Glucose are the simplest

sugars, and will be most easily absorbed by your guts before they get through

to the lower git, where the yeast could make use of them. Sucrose is more

likely to escape through to the lower gut. If you don't eat sugar directly,

the body will synthesise it. Any starch is basically a chain of glucose

molecules, and the bacteria will break this up into glucose, providing plenty

of food for the yeast.

> Canola is made from genetically engineered rapseed, olive is the lesser of

> evils weather heated or not.

Well DON'T BUY GM PRODUCTS THEN! In the UK, we would not expect our Canola

(known here as rape-seed) to be GM, unless it states so on the packet.

Certainly, UK-produced rape-seed oil is not GM. If consumers in the US didn't

buy GM products, then they would stop growing them. Again, this is

idealistic; there is not reason from the point of view of the arthritis

sufferer not to use canola oil any more than olive oil (any more than there

is reason for anyone else, that is).

> Because of what the chickens are fed, you should only eat organic eggs.

Maybe there is cause for eating organic eggs. But why should this be relevant

on a diet for arthritis, any more than for anyone else?

> Milk is for baby cows. It is way too high in protein for humans. Also it

> contains BGH bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, and way too much fat.

> Heating any food kills the enzymes that aid digestion.

And this protein has been inplicated in arthritis has it? Considering the

antibiotics that we are all so keen on here, the addition of them to our milk

should actually be good for us!

> > Confused. Cheese is often made with raw milk, which contradicts the

> statement

>

> Same as milk

My point was that raw milk was allowed on this diet, which is very odd,

don't you think?

> Again milk is too high in protein and fat.

Fat is not a problem. It is natural. You can't live without it.

> If you want fruit juice in moderation get a juicer and make it fresh. Juice

> will begin oxidation within 15 minutes unless it is pasturised,

> pastutisation kills the enzymes and makes it a dead food. If juice is in a

> jar, in the store, it is no longer much use to you.

And if you want it in cartons, which have been heat treated, what harm is

that going to do to the arthritis sufferer? It may not do you as much GOOD,

but that's not the same as doing you harm.

> No, pork is high in antibiotics, fat, and many people think pig disease it

> too close to humans

See previous comments for antibiotics and fat. Cook properly to avoid the

diseases.

> Im not sure about oranges, but bananas have little benefit nutrition wise

> but do have sugar.

Bananas have natural fruit sugars (see before). They do contain high starch

levels if not fully ripe, so for the starch intolerant should be avoided.

> No, you want unheated sea salt, heating salt as in normal table salt

> changes the molecular structure. Also sea salt has some good trace minerals

> in it. Your body can deal with foods easier in their natural state.

Can you supply a reference to this? (genuinely interested if you can.) If

you can see the salt grains, then surely the chemical structure is correct,

otherwise the crystallisation process would not have happened. Besides, much

salt that is available in supermarkets is sea salt.

> > >>> Real Salt is in our office for $3.00.

> >

> > Now you know what this is all about - making money

>

> Wow, he made a furtune selling salt huh.....

And the rest of the products mentioned.

> Yes you are and you should learn not critisize until you learn . Some

> people dont have the knowledge or availabile places to buy some of these

> items.

Some people don't have the money to waste on products costing twice what they

usually pay for more or less the same thing. Some people may be very

disheartened reading a diet like this, when they really do not need to be. It

is unfair for a diet such as this to be given out, containing as it does some

very questionable elements, which will incur considerable expense, and

bother, on anyone who tries to follow it exactly.

I'm not saying you shouldn't eat organic; if you can afford it, it is a good

idea (for everyone). But it's not going to help an arthritis sufferer any

more than it would help anyone else.

Regards,

--

Dr. D. Shaw ais@...

Sef. y Gwyddorau Biolegol Inst. of Bio. Sciences

Prifysgol Cymru University of Wales

Aberystwyth Aberystwyth

http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html

[Guest guest]

Thanks - I know you're right about eating organic if you can. It's just

that it won't help arthritis (at least, I don't beleve there is any evidence

to suggest it will). It may make you healthier in the same way that it would

make anyone else healthier, but it shouldn't be considered a treatment for

arthritis, IMHO.

Interesting what you say about oranges. I'd like to look into this one. I

would have thought that heat treatment should kill off any moulds. Maybe the

inflammation is caused by some pith getting through into the juice?

Regards,

> I just wanted to add some things I've learned, mainly from my naturopath,

> things that have made a difference to me personally.

>

> > >>> Your butter and eggs should be organic

> >

> > PC. This is an idealistic thing and won't affect your health at all

> >

> Not that idealistic. We've been able to find organic sources with very

> little effort. For an estrogen-dominant woman, avoiding any extra source of

> estogen (given to animals for rapid growth) is probably quite beneficial. I

> assume it is better for men too.

>

> >

> >

> > >>> Eat Organic Meat and No Pork

> >

> > PC. This is idealistic again.

>

> See above comment.

> >

> > >>> No Bananas /Oranges

> >

> > Confused. The problem with bananas is starch, which unless eaten very ripe

> is

> > quite high. Oranges, so long as pith (which is high in starch) is not

> eaten,

> > are surely no worse than lemons or grapefruit. No rationale is given why

> > oranges are bad and strawberries are good.

> >

> >

> Bananas have a lot of sugar. Oranges promote inflammation (lemons do not)

> and apparently many people are sensitive/allergic to them due, in part, to a

> tendency to have mould, I believe.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Les,

> what is PC???? I'm drawing a blank - for the second day in a row on this.

> ;-(

> Les

> PC. This is an idealistic thing

Sorry - common term here in GB. PC means " Politically Correct " . At the

moment, Politically Correct subjects include organic farming, cutting back on

fuel emissions, making sure your company employs the right ratios of

men/women, black/white, able/disable etc.

Hence it is very PC to say that we should all buy organic food, or that we

should use our cars less, or convert our homes to solar power. It might not

be practical, but it's PC.

PC also stands for Police Constable, Personal Computer, and plenty of other

things I'm sure ;-)

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Re: rheumatic Re: Diet

> wrote:

> > Any sugars feed yeast

>

> Yes, but you can't live without sugars. Fructose and Glucose are the

simplest

> sugars, and will be most easily absorbed by your guts before they get

through

> to the lower git, where the yeast could make use of them. Sucrose is more

> likely to escape through to the lower gut. If you don't eat sugar

directly,

> the body will synthesise it. Any starch is basically a chain of glucose

> molecules, and the bacteria will break this up into glucose, providing

plenty

> of food for the yeast.

Ok, eat an apple instead of processed sugars.

>

> > Canola is made from genetically engineered rapseed, olive is the lesser

of

> > evils weather heated or not.

>

> Well DON'T BUY GM PRODUCTS THEN! In the UK, we would not expect our

Canola

> (known here as rape-seed) to be GM, unless it states so on the packet.

> Certainly, UK-produced rape-seed oil is not GM. If consumers in the US

didn't

> buy GM products, then they would stop growing them. Again, this is

> idealistic; there is not reason from the point of view of the arthritis

> sufferer not to use canola oil any more than olive oil (any more than

there

> is reason for anyone else, that is).

All Canola in the US is GMO i believe. Olive oil has beneficial properties

that Canola does not.

>

> > Because of what the chickens are fed, you should only eat organic eggs.

>

> Maybe there is cause for eating organic eggs. But why should this be

relevant

> on a diet for arthritis, any more than for anyone else?

This is good sense for everyone.

>

> > Milk is for baby cows. It is way too high in protein for humans. Also

it

> > contains BGH bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, and way too much

fat.

> > Heating any food kills the enzymes that aid digestion.

>

> And this protein has been inplicated in arthritis has it? Considering the

> antibiotics that we are all so keen on here, the addition of them to our

milk

> should actually be good for us!

Some people have lessened symptoms when the give up dairy. And i believe a

low protein diet is better for arthritics. They use different antibiotics

in animals that we can become resistant to. Milk is for baby cows. Are you

saying we should breast feed till we are 40? Milk is designed to give a

baby animal nutrition which is different than a adult animal requires. This

is just common sense.

>

> > > Confused. Cheese is often made with raw milk, which contradicts the

> > statement

> >

> > Same as milk

>

> My point was that raw milk was allowed on this diet, which is very odd,

> don't you think?

I think it is odd, i would go with no milk. Raw milk probably has some good

benefits, as it is still alive, but, again its for baby animals.

> > Again milk is too high in protein and fat.

>

> Fat is not a problem. It is natural. You can't live without it.

Heated fat is a problem. Pasturized milk is heated. Consume essintial fatty

acids, omega 3 and 6.

>

> > If you want fruit juice in moderation get a juicer and make it fresh.

Juice

> > will begin oxidation within 15 minutes unless it is pasturised,

> > pastutisation kills the enzymes and makes it a dead food. If juice is

in a

> > jar, in the store, it is no longer much use to you.

>

> And if you want it in cartons, which have been heat treated, what harm is

> that going to do to the arthritis sufferer? It may not do you as much

GOOD,

> but that's not the same as doing you harm.

Its a dead food, all the enzymes are dead. May not do you harm but why not

make your own? Live foods are allways better for you.

>

> > No, pork is high in antibiotics, fat, and many people think pig disease

it

> > too close to humans

>

> See previous comments for antibiotics and fat. Cook properly to avoid the

> diseases.

naaaaaaaa, im not into worm infested food. I guess the pork industry would

disagree, but i dont think pork is a healthy food to eat.

>

> > Im not sure about oranges, but bananas have little benefit nutrition

wise

> > but do have sugar.

>

> Bananas have natural fruit sugars (see before). They do contain high

starch

> levels if not fully ripe, so for the starch intolerant should be avoided.

Right, no nutritional benefit and lots of yeast feeding sugar.

>

> > No, you want unheated sea salt, heating salt as in normal table salt

> > changes the molecular structure. Also sea salt has some good trace

minerals

> > in it. Your body can deal with foods easier in their natural state.

>

> Can you supply a reference to this? (genuinely interested if you can.)

If

> you can see the salt grains, then surely the chemical structure is

correct,

> otherwise the crystallisation process would not have happened. Besides,

much

> salt that is available in supermarkets is sea salt.

Dont have a reference handy. The structure changes when heated i dont care

if it looks the same or not. This is widely known.

>

> > > >>> Real Salt is in our office for $3.00.

> > >

> > > Now you know what this is all about - making money

> >

> > Wow, he made a furtune selling salt huh.....

>

> And the rest of the products mentioned.

I dont buy them....nor do i endorse anything.

>

> > Yes you are and you should learn not critisize until you learn . Some

> > people dont have the knowledge or availabile places to buy some of

these

> > items.

>

> Some people don't have the money to waste on products costing twice what

they

> usually pay for more or less the same thing. Some people may be very

> disheartened reading a diet like this, when they really do not need to

be. It

> is unfair for a diet such as this to be given out, containing as it does

some

> very questionable elements, which will incur considerable expense, and

> bother, on anyone who tries to follow it exactly.

Um, i know people personally that have cured their arthritis with diet

alone. Diet is the #1 thing to start with if you have arthritis.

>

> I'm not saying you shouldn't eat organic; if you can afford it, it is a

good

> idea (for everyone). But it's not going to help an arthritis sufferer any

> more than it would help anyone else.

It helps your health which is very important with arthritis as there are

many other problems related to it. Organic foods are many times more

nutricious so you get more for your money actually.

I believe when you need to eat as your creator intended and not as the

food industrys think you should.

I also believe consuming toxins, heated fats, sugars, processed

foods,foods that are difficult to digest cause undo stress on the body

which lead to disease.

>

> Regards,

>

>

> --

> Dr. D. Shaw ais@...

> Sef. y Gwyddorau Biolegol Inst. of Bio. Sciences

> Prifysgol Cymru University of Wales

> Aberystwyth Aberystwyth

> http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Do foods with yeast in them feed yeast already in your body? Wine and bread

would be examples. PLEASE SAY NO!!!! (lol)

Lee-Anne

wrote:

> Re: rheumatic Re: Diet

>

> > wrote:

> > > Any sugars feed yeast

> >

> > Yes, but you can't live without sugars. Fructose and Glucose are the

> simplest

> > sugars, and will be most easily absorbed by your guts before they get

> through

> > to the lower git, where the yeast could make use of them. Sucrose is more

> > likely to escape through to the lower gut. If you don't eat sugar

> directly,

> > the body will synthesise it. Any starch is basically a chain of glucose

> > molecules, and the bacteria will break this up into glucose, providing

> plenty

> > of food for the yeast.

>

> Ok, eat an apple instead of processed sugars.

> >

> > > Canola is made from genetically engineered rapseed, olive is the lesser

> of

> > > evils weather heated or not.

> >

> > Well DON'T BUY GM PRODUCTS THEN! In the UK, we would not expect our

> Canola

> > (known here as rape-seed) to be GM, unless it states so on the packet.

> > Certainly, UK-produced rape-seed oil is not GM. If consumers in the US

> didn't

> > buy GM products, then they would stop growing them. Again, this is

> > idealistic; there is not reason from the point of view of the arthritis

> > sufferer not to use canola oil any more than olive oil (any more than

> there

> > is reason for anyone else, that is).

>

> All Canola in the US is GMO i believe. Olive oil has beneficial properties

> that Canola does not.

> >

> > > Because of what the chickens are fed, you should only eat organic eggs.

> >

> > Maybe there is cause for eating organic eggs. But why should this be

> relevant

> > on a diet for arthritis, any more than for anyone else?

>

> This is good sense for everyone.

> >

> > > Milk is for baby cows. It is way too high in protein for humans. Also

> it

> > > contains BGH bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, and way too much

> fat.

> > > Heating any food kills the enzymes that aid digestion.

> >

> > And this protein has been inplicated in arthritis has it? Considering the

> > antibiotics that we are all so keen on here, the addition of them to our

> milk

> > should actually be good for us!

>

> Some people have lessened symptoms when the give up dairy. And i believe a

> low protein diet is better for arthritics. They use different antibiotics

> in animals that we can become resistant to. Milk is for baby cows. Are you

> saying we should breast feed till we are 40? Milk is designed to give a

> baby animal nutrition which is different than a adult animal requires. This

> is just common sense.

> >

> > > > Confused. Cheese is often made with raw milk, which contradicts the

> > > statement

> > >

> > > Same as milk

> >

> > My point was that raw milk was allowed on this diet, which is very odd,

> > don't you think?

>

> I think it is odd, i would go with no milk. Raw milk probably has some good

> benefits, as it is still alive, but, again its for baby animals.

>

> > > Again milk is too high in protein and fat.

> >

> > Fat is not a problem. It is natural. You can't live without it.

>

> Heated fat is a problem. Pasturized milk is heated. Consume essintial fatty

> acids, omega 3 and 6.

> >

> > > If you want fruit juice in moderation get a juicer and make it fresh.

> Juice

> > > will begin oxidation within 15 minutes unless it is pasturised,

> > > pastutisation kills the enzymes and makes it a dead food. If juice is

> in a

> > > jar, in the store, it is no longer much use to you.

> >

> > And if you want it in cartons, which have been heat treated, what harm is

> > that going to do to the arthritis sufferer? It may not do you as much

> GOOD,

> > but that's not the same as doing you harm.

>

> Its a dead food, all the enzymes are dead. May not do you harm but why not

> make your own? Live foods are allways better for you.

> >

> > > No, pork is high in antibiotics, fat, and many people think pig disease

> it

> > > too close to humans

> >

> > See previous comments for antibiotics and fat. Cook properly to avoid the

> > diseases.

>

> naaaaaaaa, im not into worm infested food. I guess the pork industry would

> disagree, but i dont think pork is a healthy food to eat.

> >

> > > Im not sure about oranges, but bananas have little benefit nutrition

> wise

> > > but do have sugar.

> >

> > Bananas have natural fruit sugars (see before). They do contain high

> starch

> > levels if not fully ripe, so for the starch intolerant should be avoided.

>

> Right, no nutritional benefit and lots of yeast feeding sugar.

> >

> > > No, you want unheated sea salt, heating salt as in normal table salt

> > > changes the molecular structure. Also sea salt has some good trace

> minerals

> > > in it. Your body can deal with foods easier in their natural state.

> >

> > Can you supply a reference to this? (genuinely interested if you can.)

> If

> > you can see the salt grains, then surely the chemical structure is

> correct,

> > otherwise the crystallisation process would not have happened. Besides,

> much

> > salt that is available in supermarkets is sea salt.

>

> Dont have a reference handy. The structure changes when heated i dont care

> if it looks the same or not. This is widely known.

> >

> > > > >>> Real Salt is in our office for $3.00.

> > > >

> > > > Now you know what this is all about - making money

> > >

> > > Wow, he made a furtune selling salt huh.....

> >

> > And the rest of the products mentioned.

>

> I dont buy them....nor do i endorse anything.

> >

> > > Yes you are and you should learn not critisize until you learn . Some

> > > people dont have the knowledge or availabile places to buy some of

> these

> > > items.

> >

> > Some people don't have the money to waste on products costing twice what

> they

> > usually pay for more or less the same thing. Some people may be very

> > disheartened reading a diet like this, when they really do not need to

> be. It

> > is unfair for a diet such as this to be given out, containing as it does

> some

> > very questionable elements, which will incur considerable expense, and

> > bother, on anyone who tries to follow it exactly.

>

> Um, i know people personally that have cured their arthritis with diet

> alone. Diet is the #1 thing to start with if you have arthritis.

> >

> > I'm not saying you shouldn't eat organic; if you can afford it, it is a

> good

> > idea (for everyone). But it's not going to help an arthritis sufferer any

> > more than it would help anyone else.

>

> It helps your health which is very important with arthritis as there are

> many other problems related to it. Organic foods are many times more

> nutricious so you get more for your money actually.

> I believe when you need to eat as your creator intended and not as the

> food industrys think you should.

> I also believe consuming toxins, heated fats, sugars, processed

> foods,foods that are difficult to digest cause undo stress on the body

> which lead to disease.

> >

> > Regards,

> >

> >

> > --

> > Dr. D. Shaw ais@...

> > Sef. y Gwyddorau Biolegol Inst. of Bio. Sciences

> > Prifysgol Cymru University of Wales

> > Aberystwyth Aberystwyth

> > http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k! " Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B

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> > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> >

> >

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Sorry to say it, but I have a friend who get a vaginal yeast infection every

time she drinks wine because of the yeast connection. Carol/Piney

Re: rheumatic Re: Diet

> >

> > > wrote:

> > > > Any sugars feed yeast

> > >

> > > Yes, but you can't live without sugars. Fructose and Glucose are the

> > simplest

> > > sugars, and will be most easily absorbed by your guts before they get

> > through

> > > to the lower git, where the yeast could make use of them. Sucrose is

more

> > > likely to escape through to the lower gut. If you don't eat sugar

> > directly,

> > > the body will synthesise it. Any starch is basically a chain of

glucose

> > > molecules, and the bacteria will break this up into glucose, providing

> > plenty

> > > of food for the yeast.

> >

> > Ok, eat an apple instead of processed sugars.

> > >

> > > > Canola is made from genetically engineered rapseed, olive is the

lesser

> > of

> > > > evils weather heated or not.

> > >

> > > Well DON'T BUY GM PRODUCTS THEN! In the UK, we would not expect our

> > Canola

> > > (known here as rape-seed) to be GM, unless it states so on the packet.

> > > Certainly, UK-produced rape-seed oil is not GM. If consumers in the US

> > didn't

> > > buy GM products, then they would stop growing them. Again, this is

> > > idealistic; there is not reason from the point of view of the

arthritis

> > > sufferer not to use canola oil any more than olive oil (any more than

> > there

> > > is reason for anyone else, that is).

> >

> > All Canola in the US is GMO i believe. Olive oil has beneficial

properties

> > that Canola does not.

> > >

> > > > Because of what the chickens are fed, you should only eat organic

eggs.

> > >

> > > Maybe there is cause for eating organic eggs. But why should this be

> > relevant

> > > on a diet for arthritis, any more than for anyone else?

> >

> > This is good sense for everyone.

> > >

> > > > Milk is for baby cows. It is way too high in protein for humans.

Also

> > it

> > > > contains BGH bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, and way too much

> > fat.

> > > > Heating any food kills the enzymes that aid digestion.

> > >

> > > And this protein has been inplicated in arthritis has it? Considering

the

> > > antibiotics that we are all so keen on here, the addition of them to

our

> > milk

> > > should actually be good for us!

> >

> > Some people have lessened symptoms when the give up dairy. And i believe

a

> > low protein diet is better for arthritics. They use different

antibiotics

> > in animals that we can become resistant to. Milk is for baby cows. Are

you

> > saying we should breast feed till we are 40? Milk is designed to give a

> > baby animal nutrition which is different than a adult animal requires.

This

> > is just common sense.

> > >

> > > > > Confused. Cheese is often made with raw milk, which contradicts

the

> > > > statement

> > > >

> > > > Same as milk

> > >

> > > My point was that raw milk was allowed on this diet, which is very

odd,

> > > don't you think?

> >

> > I think it is odd, i would go with no milk. Raw milk probably has some

good

> > benefits, as it is still alive, but, again its for baby animals.

> >

> > > > Again milk is too high in protein and fat.

> > >

> > > Fat is not a problem. It is natural. You can't live without it.

> >

> > Heated fat is a problem. Pasturized milk is heated. Consume essintial

fatty

> > acids, omega 3 and 6.

> > >

> > > > If you want fruit juice in moderation get a juicer and make it

fresh.

> > Juice

> > > > will begin oxidation within 15 minutes unless it is pasturised,

> > > > pastutisation kills the enzymes and makes it a dead food. If juice

is

> > in a

> > > > jar, in the store, it is no longer much use to you.

> > >

> > > And if you want it in cartons, which have been heat treated, what harm

is

> > > that going to do to the arthritis sufferer? It may not do you as much

> > GOOD,

> > > but that's not the same as doing you harm.

> >

> > Its a dead food, all the enzymes are dead. May not do you harm but why

not

> > make your own? Live foods are allways better for you.

> > >

> > > > No, pork is high in antibiotics, fat, and many people think pig

disease

> > it

> > > > too close to humans

> > >

> > > See previous comments for antibiotics and fat. Cook properly to avoid

the

> > > diseases.

> >

> > naaaaaaaa, im not into worm infested food. I guess the pork industry

would

> > disagree, but i dont think pork is a healthy food to eat.

> > >

> > > > Im not sure about oranges, but bananas have little benefit nutrition

> > wise

> > > > but do have sugar.

> > >

> > > Bananas have natural fruit sugars (see before). They do contain high

> > starch

> > > levels if not fully ripe, so for the starch intolerant should be

avoided.

> >

> > Right, no nutritional benefit and lots of yeast feeding sugar.

> > >

> > > > No, you want unheated sea salt, heating salt as in normal table

salt

> > > > changes the molecular structure. Also sea salt has some good trace

> > minerals

> > > > in it. Your body can deal with foods easier in their natural state.

> > >

> > > Can you supply a reference to this? (genuinely interested if you

can.)

> > If

> > > you can see the salt grains, then surely the chemical structure is

> > correct,

> > > otherwise the crystallisation process would not have happened.

Besides,

> > much

> > > salt that is available in supermarkets is sea salt.

> >

> > Dont have a reference handy. The structure changes when heated i dont

care

> > if it looks the same or not. This is widely known.

> > >

> > > > > >>> Real Salt is in our office for $3.00.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now you know what this is all about - making money

> > > >

> > > > Wow, he made a furtune selling salt huh.....

> > >

> > > And the rest of the products mentioned.

> >

> > I dont buy them....nor do i endorse anything.

> > >

> > > > Yes you are and you should learn not critisize until you learn .

Some

> > > > people dont have the knowledge or availabile places to buy some of

> > these

> > > > items.

> > >

> > > Some people don't have the money to waste on products costing twice

what

> > they

> > > usually pay for more or less the same thing. Some people may be very

> > > disheartened reading a diet like this, when they really do not need to

> > be. It

> > > is unfair for a diet such as this to be given out, containing as it

does

> > some

> > > very questionable elements, which will incur considerable expense, and

> > > bother, on anyone who tries to follow it exactly.

> >

> > Um, i know people personally that have cured their arthritis with diet

> > alone. Diet is the #1 thing to start with if you have arthritis.

> > >

> > > I'm not saying you shouldn't eat organic; if you can afford it, it is

a

> > good

> > > idea (for everyone). But it's not going to help an arthritis sufferer

any

> > > more than it would help anyone else.

> >

> > It helps your health which is very important with arthritis as there are

> > many other problems related to it. Organic foods are many times more

> > nutricious so you get more for your money actually.

> > I believe when you need to eat as your creator intended and not as the

> > food industrys think you should.

> > I also believe consuming toxins, heated fats, sugars, processed

> > foods,foods that are difficult to digest cause undo stress on the body

> > which lead to disease.

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Dr. D. Shaw ais@...

> > > Sef. y Gwyddorau Biolegol Inst. of Bio. Sciences

> > > Prifysgol Cymru University of Wales

> > > Aberystwyth Aberystwyth

> > > http://pcjagg.dbs.aber.ac.uk/index.html

> > >

> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > $BCg4V$H$O$8$a$k! " Cg4V$r8+$D$1$k!!#e%0%k!<%W(B

> > > $B!!!!!!!V%0%k!<%W%a!<%k$7$^$;$s$+!)!W(B

> > > $B%5!<%/%k! & F1Ak2q! & F1N=! & %S%8%M%9! & 2HB2$G$I$ & $>!*(B

> > > $B!!(Bhttp://www.egroups.co.jp/info/features.html

> > > 1/3411/0/_/532797/_/961581475/

> >

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > To unsubscribe, email: rheumatic-unsubscribeegroups

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi Lee-Anne,

> Do foods with yeast in them feed yeast already in your body? Wine and bread

> would be examples. PLEASE SAY NO!!!! (lol)

> Lee-Anne

NO! (for wine at least)

Short explanation: in wine production, the yeast falls to the bottom of the

fermenting vessel, where it remains dormant or dead. The wine is then racked

off the " lees " (bits at the bottom) before bottling, so no yeast, dead or

alive, gets into the finished product. I am sure about this; I make my own

wine. One advantage of making my own is that I can then sweeten it with

fructose (easily digested monosaccharide) rather than sucrose (disaccharide,

often food for the bad guys in the guts). Commercial sweet wines are probably

sweetened with sucrose.

In bread, the yeast is killed by the temperature of the oven I suspect, but I

can't say for sure on this one.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Ok, eat an apple instead of processed sugars.

Or eat fructose which has been extracted from apples or some other fruit.

Natural fruit sugar. But forbidden on the diet, for no reason.

> All Canola in the US is GMO i believe. Olive oil has beneficial properties

> that Canola does not.

Yes it does, but once it is heated, these benefits go away. Olive oil loses

its volatiles, containing micronutrients, vitamins, antioxidants, on heating.

All you're left with is the fatty acids. The ratio of MUFAs, PUFAs and SFAs

(mono-, poly- unsaturated and saturated fatty acids) in canola and olive oil

are very similar, so health-wise there is little difference in cooking. I

spent 3 years studying olive oils, so I really should know!

> Some people have lessened symptoms when the give up dairy.

This is often (maybe usually) because of the lactose, which is a

disaccharide, and can more easily escape digestion.

> And i believe a

> low protein diet is better for arthritics.

That's news. Low protein, low fat, low starch and low sugar, as you seem to

be suggesting, leaves - erm, water? And I suppose that must be spring water?

> They use different antibiotics

> in animals that we can become resistant to.

If only this were true. Unfortunately, it is not, and is potentially the

cause of a lot of bacterial immunity. A recent drug licenced here for use in

cattle was one of a very few to which there was little disease resistance.

The farmers are happy to have it, but the human health researchers are mad

about it! There goes one more drug, which will soon be ineffective against

diseases such as TB. That is bad news for everyone, not just arthritics. So,

as I said, we should all avoid such meat if we can; unfortunately we

mostly don't have the possibility, or the disposable income to be able to

afford it. It certainly isn't gong to affect our aches directly, though.

> I think it is odd, i would go with no milk. Raw milk probably has some good

> benefits, as it is still alive, but, again its for baby animals.

Yes for many, no milk (lactose-free) is a good idea. I agree. That's why I

was pointing out how ludicrous the diet is, since it allowed raw milk.

I personally find milk not to be a problem, though sucrose is somewhat of a

problem for me.

> Heated fat is a problem. Pasturized milk is heated. Consume essintial fatty

> acids, omega 3 and 6.

Milk fat is mostly saturated. There isn't going to be much change in that

when heated. MUFAs and PUFAs can become saturated on heating, but as you know

from your cooking oil, it takes a while before it solidifies in your fryer.

Pasteurisation isn't going to have much, if any, impact on the fat in milk.

I don't think there are ANY omega-3 fats naturally in milk - those are found

mainly in fish oils. I'm not sure about omega-6, but if they are present it

would not be in large amounts.

> > And if you want it in cartons, which have been heat treated, what harm is

> > that going to do to the arthritis sufferer? It may not do you as much

> GOOD,

> > but that's not the same as doing you harm.

>

> Its a dead food, all the enzymes are dead. May not do you harm but why not

> make your own? Live foods are allways better for you.

I don't think raw milk is particularly good - as I said before, with the

amount of bovine TB on the exponential increase, you are a fool to drink it

raw.

> naaaaaaaa, im not into worm infested food. I guess the pork industry would

> disagree, but i dont think pork is a healthy food to eat.

But cooked, the worms are killed. You might not like the idea, but they're

harmless. Raw, of course, is not a good idea. But raw chicken, with its

very high risk of salmonella, is much more dangerous.

> > Bananas have natural fruit sugars (see before). They do contain high

> starch

> > levels if not fully ripe, so for the starch intolerant should be avoided.

>

> Right, no nutritional benefit and lots of yeast feeding sugar.

NO, NO YEAST FEEDING SUGAR!!!! The sugar in fruits is fructose, and in some

fruits glucose. Both simple monosaccharides. They are the most easily

absorbed molecules, which will provide you with energy. They will have been

absorbed by your body before they get into the colon, and hopefully before

they reach the ileum. You need energy to live at all. Of all sources of

energy, glucose and fructose are the two which your guts can most easily

process. Thus they are least likely of all to provide food for any nasties.

> Um, i know people personally that have cured their arthritis with diet

> alone. Diet is the #1 thing to start with if you have arthritis.

Yes, I agree. I have done this myself. I am following a starch-free diet, and

since starting it 4.5 months ago, have dropped off all meds (back in April).

Still have some pain but no more than when I was on meds, usually less.

I am the first person to advocate diet for arthritic problems, but not this

one!

> I believe when you need to eat as your creator intended and not as the

> food industrys think you should.

You should eat as naturally as possible, as you say. That is an

idealistic statement, whcih I happen to believe to be correct. BUT, it is not

right to include it on a diet for arthritis sufferers, unless it is known to

have a direct effect on their condition. No studies to my knowledge have

shown any such effect (whilst many have shown the starch effect).

Regards,

[Guest guest]

> Sorry to say it, but I have a friend who get a vaginal yeast infection every

> time she drinks wine because of the yeast connection. Carol/Piney

Then it isn't made properly :-) Get another make. I make my own wine, and I

can guarantee you that I can get just about every last yeast cell out of

there if I want to, and I usually do. There's yeast in the air you breathe

more than there are yeasts in my wine.

If I'd accidentally left any yeast in there, I'd know when I sweetened the

wine as the corks would pop!

[Guest guest]

> > And i believe a

> > low protein diet is better for arthritics.

>

I personally believe in a balanced diet, with heavy emphasis on vegetables

and lots of water, low-fat and low-sugar....but I wanted to throw in here

that when I first got diagnosed and was asking my doctor about diet, he

mentioned that there was one study that showed some evidence that *some*

people with RA did better on a diet with no animal products at all. There

may be info on this on the Arthritis Foundation website, as I recall getting

a mailing from them asking if I wanted to participate in a study like this.

I don't recall the details of what I read about the theory behind it at

the time, but believe it had something to do with leaky gut and molecular

mimicry--animal proteins getting into the bloodstream and triggering

autoimmune attacks where similar proteins occurred in the patient's body.

I also believe that there are great individual differences in us, and the

key to diet is to experiment and find out what works best for you--but I do

believe a common denominator is that lots of vegetables are good for all of

us, whatever our differences. Liz G

[Guest guest]

There was a study that showed changing to a vegetarian diet improved

symptoms. This is what leads me to believe a low protein, especially meat

protein is beneficial.

I will see if i can dig it up.

Re: rheumatic Re: Diet

>

> > > And i believe a

> > > low protein diet is better for arthritics.

> >

> I personally believe in a balanced diet, with heavy emphasis on

vegetables

> and lots of water, low-fat and low-sugar....but I wanted to throw in here

> that when I first got diagnosed and was asking my doctor about diet, he

> mentioned that there was one study that showed some evidence that *some*

> people with RA did better on a diet with no animal products at all.

There

> may be info on this on the Arthritis Foundation website, as I recall

getting

> a mailing from them asking if I wanted to participate in a study like

this.

> I don't recall the details of what I read about the theory behind it at

> the time, but believe it had something to do with leaky gut and molecular

> mimicry--animal proteins getting into the bloodstream and triggering

> autoimmune attacks where similar proteins occurred in the patient's body.

> I also believe that there are great individual differences in us, and

the

> key to diet is to experiment and find out what works best for you--but I

do

> believe a common denominator is that lots of vegetables are good for all

of

> us, whatever our differences. Liz G

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

I guess this supports my low fat diet.

rheumatic Diet

> from http://members.aol.com/ghylak/mycoplasma.htm

> Avoidance

>

> Cholesterol and the amino acid arginine, which is commonly found in

> chocolate, stimulate growth of mycoplasmas and should be avoided at all

> costs. However, there is a strain of mycoplasma hominis which has been

given

> the ability to produce arginine as a characteristic mechanism of the

> disease; As such, this pathogenic strain can 'whip itself into a froth'

> notwithstanding the careful avoidance of arginine by a patient.

>

> Mycoplasmas lack the genes required for lipid synthesis; therefore it is

> imperative that all fat be eliminated from the diet in order for the

> therapeutic protocols to have efficacy.

>

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

> I guess this supports my low fat diet.

>

>

I thought you you would like that one, ! ; ) Note however it says:

> > *imperative* that *all fat* be eliminated

How are we supposed to do that? Especially those of us who have had trouble

keeping up our weight at times? Don't many vegetables, even, contain lipids?

And what does this implicate for those of us who use omega 3's? <sigh> Liz

G

[Guest guest]

Liz: This one really does baffle me. We would have to starve ourselves to

death to

kill them this way. The human body needs a certain amount of fat to function.

<<

Mycoplasmas lack the genes required for lipid synthesis; therefore it is

imperative that all fat be eliminated from the diet in order for the

therapeutic protocols to have efficacy.

>>

Ann

[Guest guest]

> Liz: This one really does baffle me. We would have to starve ourselves

to

> death to

> kill them this way. The human body needs a certain amount of fat to

function.

>

That's the point I was trying to make by posting this. We would have to

starve ourselves to get rid of the disease by diet alone, eliminating all

fat, starches, and sugars. That couldn't be healthy, IMHO. That's why I

believe in a balanced diet, using good common sense and following diet

recommendations for good general health like low saturated fat, low sugar

and loads of vegetables with some fruit, some low fat protein and whole

grains, with elimination of food allergens. Liz G

[Guest guest]

I have noticed too that in sticking to a diet that having a " cheat day "

really helps. I started 1 year ago w/ " Sugarbuster's " and found that one day

a week I have to have a day to myself or I would cheat all week. This diet

helped me lose about 10 lbs which I wished to lose strictly for health

reasons - it didn't make a difference in the PA. However I do go to kickbox

3-4 times per week and that makes me feel alot better.

H.

[Guest guest]

Fwd msg re diet

[RA-CONSULT] diet

| What is your position on diet and RA? Are there certain foods that are

more

| likely to aggravate flare-ups of RA? Do some foods seem to be

beneficial?

| Thanks,

| Alice

_______________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Lee, I understand about the hypoglycemia... Let me tell you that I

become like a drunk. IT is like I have had a dozen glasses of hard

liquor. It sets me back for a few days.. major dizzy and foggy

brained... HOwver.. the alcohol in the bach remedies does not affect me.

Hello Chestnut!

Maybe Bach flower remedies would not affect me, either: I have not

needed any since my " miracle cure " . Up until I got diagnosed I was on

Bach flower remedies and homeopathic remedies 20 hours a day, every

day. Haven't had any for 6 weeks now. Gosh look at the money I am

saving, not to mention what I save on chocolate! I always try to look on

the bright side.

An unexpeced side-effect of the cure is that I find myself dissatisfied

with my boyfriend, who is a successful classical musician (soloist). For

3 yrs I have idolised him. I was his puppy (or clown what expression do

you use in the States?) and felt literally like I could not live without

him. I mean unhealthy emotional dependence. For some reason as I have

gotten better I feel less and less satisfied with inequality in our

feelings for each other and the tiny crumbs of himself that he gives me,

for which I used to be pathetically grateful, and I now think I have

been a fool to be so besotted and to have given so much love, care,

devotion, time and energy to someone who (it now seems perfectly clear)

gives as little in return as he possibly can.

Has anyone else found that a rise in self-esteem which is what I guess

it is, has made them dissatisfied with the people around them?

Lee

[Guest guest]

<<

Has anyone else found that a rise in self-esteem which is what I guess

it is, has made them dissatisfied with the people around them? >>

Hi Lee,

I understand what you're saying about the boyfriend...proper nutrition can

work wonders on self-esteem (those brain chemicals that the doctors say can

only be balanced by taking drugs...all you really need is to kick sugar

addiction and eat good food..wow what a concept!) My mood and feelings

about myself are very much related to how I am eating. While on the sugar

addiction cycle, I am very depressed, hopeless, low-self-esteem, etc. When

I'm not, everything seems like it's been put into perspective and I totally

have more confidence and optimism, and yes, that can lead to re-evaluating

relationships...usually for the better...if someone is sucking your time and

emotions away without giving anything in return, I say it's time to do some

cleansing and get rid of that parasite!

*Jami