diet

[Guest guest]

Hi Janelle,

Yes, I meant to address that as well. My situation is a little different

because I just got AIH in the last year, and I lost weight because of it. I

was a skinny-minny to begin with, so now I'm underweight and trying to gain.

I know cheese is high in saturated fats, which is not so good. She did say,

however, that peanut butter and the others have the kind of fat the body

needs, so it's ok. She suggests the light cheese, which doesn't taste too

bad if you buy OLD or ones with herbs or seasonings (in the special cheeses

section of the supermarket). She also recommended " ENSURE " which is very

low in fat, and a good source of protein and other nutrients the body needs.

She gave me Pina Colada, which is not soy based, and it tastes fine. This

could be a snack maybe. The yoghurt isn't so bad (especially since you can

get light). I also stick with chicken and fish because they're low in fat.

To tell you the truth, I feel better on the days when I eat these and not

the bad stuff. I'm becoming very in tune with what my liver likes and

doesn't like. Hope this helps!

>From: Janelle Asplund <jasplund@...>

>Reply- onelist

> onelist

>Subject: Re: [ ] Diet

>Date: 07 Jul 1999 15:38:36 -0500

>

>

> She stresses chicken, peanut butter, eggs, yoghurt, and cheese.

>

>Thanks for all the good information . I'm guessing your nutritionist

>thinks the protein value of eggs, cheese, and peanut butter outweigh their

>fat content?

>

>Janelle AIH

>Seattle

><< RFC-822.TXT >>

[Guest guest]

Deb, allergy testing might not be such a bad idea. About six years ago

(after being constantly ill for two years), I went on Dr. Crook's

elimination diet for a couple of weeks or so. I was amazed at my body's

(and my mind's) positive reaction to the meager fare I was on. My energy

level (even on what I thought was starvation) and my emotions were

DRASTICALLY improved immediately.

I gradually added each thing back into my diet (per the book). I went on a

new, more restricted diet (than I had been on for years) and I continued to

improve. I have to wonder, though, if I am not still eating something

(I'd guess wheat) that I would do better without. My new physician even

suggested that we do some allergy testing. If you have this done, let us

know how it goes, ok? Thanks, Billie

rheumatic Diet

>From: dav0920@...

>

>A lot of people talk about diet being as important as antibiotics in the

>protocol. Dr. Mercola outlines a diet (sorta Zone) and recommends Dr.

>D'Adamo's site. I am wondering if people are following the Eat Right

>For Your Type diet as well as Dr. Mercola's diet? I have been on Dr.

>Mercola's diet for several years, but I still react to foods. I was

>going to have allergy testing done, but am wondering if the blood-type

>diet would be better? Or, vice versa. Your experiences with food would

>be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Deb

>

>

>---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Kaye,

That's good to know that the dye in iodine comes from shellfish. No one

has ever mentioned that to me or asked me if I had an allergy to shellfish,

yet I know that it can be a fatal allergy for some.

I found out that I have a lasix allergy after I had a lithotripsy for a

large kidney stone. They put in a stent to drain the stone fragments from

the kidney and I was in agony for more than a week but it didn't seem to

occur to my doctor that it could be caused by the stent itself and not the

procedure. Anyone who finds that they develop a welt on their skin when

they use a plastic bandaid probably has a similar allergy and should tell

them in the hospital if they are going to have any procedure that uses

lasix. There is an established procedure hospitals are supposed to follow

for lasix sensitive patients. Even now, when I have blood drawn for my

labs, I tell them not to use plastic bandaids. If I forget, it not only

raises a welt but my skin has become so thin from pred or something that it

will tear off a small layer of skin after just a few minutes, when I remove

the bandaid.

Take care,

Geri

[Guest guest]

Hi Janelle,

I wasn't told NOT to eat anything but raw fish, and that was because of

bacteria, I think. I also wasn't told that I SHOULD eat anything in

particular, except that I'm supposed to somehow choke down almost a full

pound of protein daily.

I don't eat a lot of junk food and always have preferred fresh fruits and

vegetables to canned or even frozen, so I've probably unconsciously done

the right thing. The dietician that Scripps sent me to told me that

because of the nutritional needs of AIH patients, a diet that would keep

weight down is almost impossible. The only real restriction, and it wasn't

a big deal, was to restrict sodium intake to 2000 mgs. daily.

The problem was that even when I was most ill, I was voraciously hungry all

of the time until I'd managed to put on lots of ugly pounds. Now, finally,

my appetite is near normal for me, and I go all day without eating much of

anything. I always have a tall glass of OJ in the morning. I've done that

for the past 25-30 years. Otherwise, I rarely eat more than a slice of

toast during an entire day and then I don't eat much for dinner. So far, I

haven't lost a single pound despite a major cutback in calories. Maybe I

eat in my sleep?

Geri

[Guest guest]

,

I think I mentioned that I thought I was taking vit D but I wasn't. Tried

to buy it and had difficulty finding it in a drugstore! I finally started

taking it yesterday and I haven't started on Fosomax yet. I've been taking

1000 mgs. of Calcium daily because I couldn't locate 600 mg. tablets, only

500 mg. I split it up to take 500 mgs in the AM and 500 mgs. at night, but

I didn't know that was the best way. I just thought it was easier to cut

down on the number of pills I have to swallow all at once.

I was also told that peanut butter and chicken are good protein sources.

I don't eat eggs very often. In fact, rarely, except as an ingredient in

something else. I''m probably not getting adequate protein but you'd never

know it to look at me. I look like I'm being fed more than enough of

everything! I couldn't drink a glass of milk if my life depended at it.

It triggers my gag reflex. I do prefer healthy foods in general, not for

any reason except that they happen to be the foods I most enjoy. Healthy

doesn't have to mean bland, anyhow. We like Chicken Vindaloo, a fairly

spicy Indian curry type dish, and also Chicken Jambalaya is a family

favorite. I've always bought only very lean meat, but I do have a weakness

for salmon, which I guess is fatty and probably not the best choice for a

protein source. But, you say that it's a " good " type of fat? I have a

recipe for baked salmon that is topped with Blue Cheese, bread crumbs and

green onions saauteed in butter then broiled until the cheese melts. It is

absolutely delectible if you enjoy salmon and the cheese works really well

with the fish.

Take care,

Geri

[Guest guest]

Janelle,

If we did stop eating all the foods that, as you say, are no good for us,

one good thing would come from it. We would all be thin. With or without

pred.

SueB.

----------

> From: Janelle Asplund <jasplund@...>

> onelist

> Subject: [ ] diet

> Date: Wednesday, 7 July 1999 18:53

>

>

>

> Hi Geri. My doctor didn't give me any dietary restrictions, but I'm

busily

> imposing a bunch on myself, since it seems foolish not to do the simple

things I

> can to help matters (or at least not make them worse). I thought the

problem

> with shellfish was not only that it's salty, but if eaten raw can be

carrying

> major bacteria, which of course those of us with suppressed immune

systems want

> to avoid. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in.

>

> I wonder what foods would be left if we stopped eating all the things

we're been

> told are bad for us either because of the AIH or the meds...

>

> Janelle AIH

> Seattle

> ______________________________ Forward Header

__________________________________

> Subject: Re: [ ] Digest Number 130

> Author: spangs@... at Internet-USA

> Date: 7/6/99 3:46 PM

>

>

> From: Geri Spang <spangs@...>

>

> ,

> I wasn't told to stay away from anything! I don't know if that was

because

> it didn't matter or because they just neglected to tell me what I had to

> do. I was sent to a Dietician, however, by the transplant doctors as

part

> of pre-transplant evaluation.

>

> No warning to me about alcohol because I'd already told them I don't

drink

> since it usually makes me sick. I was told that I require almost a full

> pound of protein daily - far more than I could possibly consume. I asked

> about alternatives to meat, like beans, etc., and the dietician thought

> that I would never be able to eat enough of them in a day to give me the

> amount of protein I need.

>

> The reason for the high protein requirement (for me) is because, despite

> apparent weight gains, there can be a danger of malnutrition due to the

> liver's failure to absorb necessary nutrients. However, for some people

> who have a problem with ammonia in their systems, animal proteins are to

be

> avoided.

>

> I was also told that I should avoid any kind of raw fish (sushi),

shellfish

> unless well cooked, and raw meats (like carpacchio?). This is because of

> the Prednisone, not the liver disease, or so I understood. Salt should

be

> restricted to around 2000 mgs. daily if possible, if fluid retention is

a

> problem.

>

> I've noticed that many of us have been given entirely different dietary

> guidelines so it's difficult to know what's right.

> Geri

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Geri,

Your nutritionist should have told you that you are doing it all wrong. You

have to actually eat to loose weight. In normal circumstances when you eat

three balanced meals a day you can loose weight. Having OJ and toast will

not allow you to loose any. Try the meals, see how it works.

Years ago after the birth of my 3rd child, I put myself on a diet.

Different to most though. I had my normal night meal for breakfast, a salad

for lunch and a sandwich for my night time meal. I lost a hell of a lot of

weight doing it that way, because eating the big meal for breakfast gave me

all day to wear it off instead of eating a big meal and then going to bed.

Give it a try.

SueB.

----------

> From: Geri Spang <spangs@...>

> onelist

> Subject: Re: [ ] diet

> Date: Friday, 9 July 1999 20:50

>

> From: Geri Spang <spangs@...>

>

> Hi Janelle,

> I wasn't told NOT to eat anything but raw fish, and that was because of

> bacteria, I think. I also wasn't told that I SHOULD eat anything in

> particular, except that I'm supposed to somehow choke down almost a full

> pound of protein daily.

>

> I don't eat a lot of junk food and always have preferred fresh fruits and

> vegetables to canned or even frozen, so I've probably unconsciously done

> the right thing. The dietician that Scripps sent me to told me that

> because of the nutritional needs of AIH patients, a diet that would keep

> weight down is almost impossible. The only real restriction, and it

wasn't

> a big deal, was to restrict sodium intake to 2000 mgs. daily.

>

> The problem was that even when I was most ill, I was voraciously hungry

all

> of the time until I'd managed to put on lots of ugly pounds. Now,

finally,

> my appetite is near normal for me, and I go all day without eating much

of

> anything. I always have a tall glass of OJ in the morning. I've done

that

> for the past 25-30 years. Otherwise, I rarely eat more than a slice of

> toast during an entire day and then I don't eat much for dinner. So far,

I

> haven't lost a single pound despite a major cutback in calories. Maybe I

> eat in my sleep?

> Geri

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Sue,

I'm actually eating the same way I always have, most of my adult life. My

normal routine is to have OJ and perhaps a slice of toast for breakfast

then little if anything before dinner. We usually don't eat dinner until

around 8:00 PM. Sometimes I snack, but not much, after dinner, but I

rarely go to bed before 5:00 AM, so a snack at 10:00 shouldn't be too close

to bedtime.

I've heard that the way you eat is the best way though I've never tried it.

I've always insisted that our children eat a big breakfast because they

needed the nutrition to keep their brains alert and their energies up to

get through the day. We don't " do " junk food much and never have, so they

generally ate a decent lunch and we always had a family " sit-down " dinner.

None of them have ever been overweight and some of them are thin, I think,

though they do seem to eat well.

I know my eating habits are all wrong. Bob keeps trying to get me to have

breakfast when I first wake up and I just can't handle it. In fact, I

don't even have the appetite for a slice of toast. It takes a couple of

hours for me to feel ready to eat anything. Now that I'm down to 5 mgs. of

Prednisone, I've become a fairly light eater and I'm one of those people

who doesn't sit still all day and I'm usually still going until it's time

for dinner.

I need to develop the discipline to make a serious effort to get rid of

these ugly pounds and turn some of the flab into muscle, though who wants

to be a stringy, muscular old lady? Oh, well. Gotta be something. I

could try that for awhile.

Take care,

Geri

[Guest guest]

At 01:39 PM 8/1/99 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Lee Ann Walter " <SAWalter@...>

>Do any of you notice your rashes clearing up a bit in the summer?

>Mine starts healing, but never completely, around March. It is

>now August 1 and it is starting to flare up again.

This is what happens to me, too. The minute the temperature gets below 80 F

at night consistently, little red circles start appearing and spreading,

almost exclusively in my torso area, front and back, and my ..um...derriere.

During the pregnancy I was completely covered last winter, and it finally

started to clear up around March/April. This is the first summer, however,

that I've continued to have small to quarter-sized sores (I don't know the

technical name for these red scaly circles I get) even during the worst of

the heat--just one more indication that the PA worsened due to the

pregnancy. I just noticed this morning some new small ones starting just

near my underarms on both sides, so mine is starting to flare up again too.

They don't come near the joints or over the joints like many of you though,

and I've never had it on my hands at all and only once on my face--the very

first sore I ever had, on my chin, when I was 11.

As for diet, I mentioned yesterday that my doctor is going to give me a copy

of the diet they're using in that study up in Seattle I think she said it

was. I'll ask her if it's okay to post it on this list. That is, if

anyone's interested in getting a look at it?

Kathy F.

fowkes@...

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I would be interested in seeing the diet.

Lee Ann

Re: [ ] diet

From: R & K Fowkes <fowkes@...>

At 01:39 PM 8/1/99 -0500, you wrote:

>From: " Lee Ann Walter " <SAWalter@...>

>Do any of you notice your rashes clearing up a bit in the

summer?

>Mine starts healing, but never completely, around March. It is

>now August 1 and it is starting to flare up again.

This is what happens to me, too. The minute the temperature gets

below 80 F

at night consistently, little red circles start appearing and

spreading,

almost exclusively in my torso area, front and back, and my

...um...derriere.

During the pregnancy I was completely covered last winter, and it

finally

started to clear up around March/April. This is the first

summer, however,

that I've continued to have small to quarter-sized sores (I don't

know the

technical name for these red scaly circles I get) even during the

worst of

the heat--just one more indication that the PA worsened due to

the

pregnancy. I just noticed this morning some new small ones

starting just

near my underarms on both sides, so mine is starting to flare up

again too.

They don't come near the joints or over the joints like many of

you though,

and I've never had it on my hands at all and only once on my

face--the very

first sore I ever had, on my chin, when I was 11.

As for diet, I mentioned yesterday that my doctor is going to

give me a copy

of the diet they're using in that study up in Seattle I think she

said it

was. I'll ask her if it's okay to post it on this list. That is,

if

anyone's interested in getting a look at it?

Kathy F.

fowkes@...

--------------------------- ONElist

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Drawing is held each week through August 20. For details, go to

/info/onereachsplash3.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------

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Please visit our new web page at:

http://www.wpunj.edu/icip/pa

[Guest guest]

Kathy,

I for one am very interested in that diet. Is that from the U of

Washington?

Vicki

[Guest guest]

At 01:15 AM 8/2/99 EDT, you wrote:

>From: VLarson169@...

>

>Kathy,

> I for one am very interested in that diet. Is that from the U of

>Washington?

You know, I'm not really sure. I'm going to phone her today to see when I

can pick it up this week. I'll let you know when I know more. My doctor

said she was involved in the study while she was in the military, and that

it's still ongoing.

Kathy

[Guest guest]

<<aspartame is probably not a good idea. sugar is bad, but aspartame (IMHO) is

poison.peace,kay>>

amen, Kay, I couldn't agree with ya more!

)

Cheryl (LI, NY)

[Guest guest]

I guess I wanted to respond to this study which I've read A LOT on today. A

near starvation diet will lower metabolism; I think we can all agree on that.

However, I'm thinking that a fast metabolism probably does degenerate the

body somewhat. It would only make sense. However, does anybody think that

slowing down the metabolism to stop the " aging process " will beneficial in

the long run. I guess I see it as freezing yourself everyday to keep the

cell functions at a lower rate--thus the aging process at a lower rate. Just

a thought to keep this ultimately fascinating subject going.

One more thing, in the USA TODAY there was an article/advertisment for

somebody--and I'm forgetting his name, I apologize; but he said that he lives

on 850 calories a day. Huh? A professional athlete. He also said that he

has stopped " starving " himself and opted for the more abundant 850 calories.

Reading that, I felt like the biggest hog EVER!

DAN!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have also read about the 850 calorie diet. THis one came from a book

about a Yoga teacher! She claimed she got along quite nicely on 850 -900

calories and when put to the test (she used something like Metrical and if

you remember that you ARE dating yourself!) of 1200 calories a day she gained

weight! THis was attributed to super efficient metabolism, super nutrious

food with no " empty calories " and emphasis on our most important

energizer....oxygen!

Both of these stories are about folks that are very active. Perhaps

there is something to this concept that less is more!

Lash

[Guest guest]

Oh no... not bacon or ham, Nitrates, Nitrites, Nitrosomines bad, Bad, BAD.

Need protein stay with fish, clean foul (duck routinely, specific brands of

chicken), or lamb. But not pork and especially not cured meats such as bacon

or ham, and not beef. Also, if you have the ability to barbecue over

electrical elements vs coals you will eliminate the smoke particles and

problems associated with those such as phenolic issues ... if not broil. And

if using fish, spend the time to find out when the fresh fish comes in and

buy fresh, not several days old or frozen. Yes, it will cost more, but over

the course of a full year the price difference (here anyway) consuming fish

2x/d, 4-5d/wk we calculated to less than $200. Well worth it.

Regards,

Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

rheumatic diet

> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

>

> Hi Mado,

> Breakfast is easy - eggs. Add bacon or ham if you like. IT is not the

> animal fat that hurts you. You can also eat cottage cheese but get the 4%

> fat not low fat. Low fat means more carbos. Eat berries, strawberries,

> blueberries, and melon for low carbo fruit. I continue to recommend that

> you buy PROTEIN POWER in paperback for about $7 by Eades and Eades. IT is

> available at all the bookstores and gives the best overview, in my

opinion.

> I think everyone should read this book or one like it, not just take my or

> someone else's word for a low carbo diet. Hope this helps.

> a C.

>

> > From Mado:

> >

> > I sure would like a good discussion on this topic - it is so confusing.

> At

> > present I am avoiding all sugars, all yeast and carbo except for meats,

> > vegetables, nuts and grains. I allow myself one fruit a day - that one

> is

> > though - and I am very careful with the meats not to buy processed

salami,

> > etc. I try to eat fish often and thank God for the bar-b-q.

> >

> > My main problem is the breakfeast - what to eat? Any suggestion.

> >

> > Mado

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

HI,

That is certainly possible. Animal fat could be bad for us for a number of

reasons. As far as weight loss and cholesterol and triglycerides I am

convinced from reading the studies and my own families' results from the low

carbo diet that animal fat does not affect these. Whether it does other

things in regard to arthritis or containing harmful substances due to what

we feed animals nowdays, I don't know. If I could be a vegan I would. I

think the things done to animals today are terrible for them and us. I

don't think my health situation is such that I can live on animal protein,

particularly soy, to which I am allergic. So I am not trying to say animal

fat is good for us, just that it doesn't cause atherosclerosis.

a C.

> a,

>

> My rheumatologist feels that animal fat does hurt. Feels it is too toxic

for us

> to have.

> ette

>

> a Carnes wrote:

>

> > From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

> >

> > Hi Mado,

> > Breakfast is easy - eggs. Add bacon or ham if you like. IT is not the

> > animal fat that hurts you. You can also eat cottage cheese but get the

4%

> > fat not low fat. Low fat means more carbos. Eat berries, strawberries,

> > blueberries, and melon for low carbo fruit. I continue to recommend

that

> > you buy PROTEIN POWER in paperback for about $7 by Eades and Eades. IT

is

> > available at all the bookstores and gives the best overview, in my

opinion.

> > I think everyone should read this book or one like it, not just take my

or

> > someone else's word for a low carbo diet. Hope this helps.

> > a C.

> >

> > > From Mado:

> > >

> > > I sure would like a good discussion on this topic - it is so

confusing.

> > At

> > > present I am avoiding all sugars, all yeast and carbo except for

meats,

> > > vegetables, nuts and grains. I allow myself one fruit a day - that

one

> > is

> > > though - and I am very careful with the meats not to buy processed

salami,

> > > etc. I try to eat fish often and thank God for the bar-b-q.

> > >

> > > My main problem is the breakfeast - what to eat? Any suggestion.

> > >

> > > Mado

> >

> > ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Geoff:

Thanks for the info, but why not beef? I can understand pork which I

basically have eliminated from my diet and have incorporated more fish but

beef still puzzles me? Also guys I am still looking for suggestions for

breakfast.

Mado

Re: rheumatic diet

>From: " Geoff Crenshaw " <geoff@...>

>

>Oh no... not bacon or ham, Nitrates, Nitrites, Nitrosomines bad, Bad, BAD.

>Need protein stay with fish, clean foul (duck routinely, specific brands of

>chicken), or lamb. But not pork and especially not cured meats such as

bacon

>or ham, and not beef. Also, if you have the ability to barbecue over

>electrical elements vs coals you will eliminate the smoke particles and

>problems associated with those such as phenolic issues ... if not broil.

And

>if using fish, spend the time to find out when the fresh fish comes in and

>buy fresh, not several days old or frozen. Yes, it will cost more, but over

>the course of a full year the price difference (here anyway) consuming fish

>2x/d, 4-5d/wk we calculated to less than $200. Well worth it.

>

>Regards,

>

>Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

>Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

> -----------------------

> Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

>Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

>

>

>

> rheumatic diet

>

>

>> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

>>

>> Hi Mado,

>> Breakfast is easy - eggs. Add bacon or ham if you like. IT is not the

>> animal fat that hurts you. You can also eat cottage cheese but get the

4%

>> fat not low fat. Low fat means more carbos. Eat berries, strawberries,

>> blueberries, and melon for low carbo fruit. I continue to recommend that

>> you buy PROTEIN POWER in paperback for about $7 by Eades and Eades. IT

is

>> available at all the bookstores and gives the best overview, in my

>opinion.

>> I think everyone should read this book or one like it, not just take my

or

>> someone else's word for a low carbo diet. Hope this helps.

>> a C.

>>

>> > From Mado:

>> >

>> > I sure would like a good discussion on this topic - it is so confusing.

>> At

>> > present I am avoiding all sugars, all yeast and carbo except for meats,

>> > vegetables, nuts and grains. I allow myself one fruit a day - that

one

>> is

>> > though - and I am very careful with the meats not to buy processed

>salami,

>> > etc. I try to eat fish often and thank God for the bar-b-q.

>> >

>> > My main problem is the breakfeast - what to eat? Any suggestion.

>> >

>> > Mado

>>

>>

>>

>> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I can't tell you if pork or red meat or bacon is bad for you, but I am

convinced that eating protein is not bad for you. You can read the book

PROTEIN POWER and think for yourselves. You can also decide to do a low

carbohydrate diet and then pick the protein which is safe. You can have

veggie omlets for breakfast or cottage cheese or steak. You can have melon

or peaches. There is a lot of good food that is low carbohydrate without

eating bacon. I just recommend that everyone look at, read, a book on the

concept of low carbohydrate eating. You can read Dr. Adkins. I just think

PROTEIN POWER is more clear and presents some good scientific studies to

document.

a C.

>

> Hi Geoff:

>

> Thanks for the info, but why not beef? I can understand pork which I

> basically have eliminated from my diet and have incorporated more fish but

> beef still puzzles me? Also guys I am still looking for suggestions for

> breakfast.

>

> Mado

> Re: rheumatic diet

>

>

> >From: " Geoff Crenshaw " <geoff@...>

> >

> >Oh no... not bacon or ham, Nitrates, Nitrites, Nitrosomines bad, Bad,

BAD.

> >Need protein stay with fish, clean foul (duck routinely, specific brands

of

> >chicken), or lamb. But not pork and especially not cured meats such as

> bacon

> >or ham, and not beef. Also, if you have the ability to barbecue over

> >electrical elements vs coals you will eliminate the smoke particles and

> >problems associated with those such as phenolic issues ... if not broil.

> And

> >if using fish, spend the time to find out when the fresh fish comes in

and

> >buy fresh, not several days old or frozen. Yes, it will cost more, but

over

> >the course of a full year the price difference (here anyway) consuming

fish

> >2x/d, 4-5d/wk we calculated to less than $200. Well worth it.

> >

> >Regards,

> >

> >Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

> >Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

> > -----------------------

> > Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

> >Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

> >

> >

> >

> > rheumatic diet

> >

> >

> >> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

> >>

> >> Hi Mado,

> >> Breakfast is easy - eggs. Add bacon or ham if you like. IT is not the

> >> animal fat that hurts you. You can also eat cottage cheese but get the

> 4%

> >> fat not low fat. Low fat means more carbos. Eat berries,

strawberries,

> >> blueberries, and melon for low carbo fruit. I continue to recommend

that

> >> you buy PROTEIN POWER in paperback for about $7 by Eades and Eades. IT

> is

> >> available at all the bookstores and gives the best overview, in my

> >opinion.

> >> I think everyone should read this book or one like it, not just take my

> or

> >> someone else's word for a low carbo diet. Hope this helps.

> >> a C.

> >>

> >> > From Mado:

> >> >

> >> > I sure would like a good discussion on this topic - it is so

confusing.

> >> At

> >> > present I am avoiding all sugars, all yeast and carbo except for

meats,

> >> > vegetables, nuts and grains. I allow myself one fruit a day - that

> one

> >> is

> >> > though - and I am very careful with the meats not to buy processed

> >salami,

> >> > etc. I try to eat fish often and thank God for the bar-b-q.

> >> >

> >> > My main problem is the breakfeast - what to eat? Any suggestion.

> >> >

> >> > Mado

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> --------------------------- ONElist

Sponsor ----------------------------

> >>

> >> WIN a trip to Hawaii!

> >> Enter ONElist's Hawaiian Sweepstakes. Go to:

> >> <a href= " http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/hawaii1 " >Click Here</a>

> >>

>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >

> >

> >---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Several reasons, but not necessarily obvious ones. As you doubtless know,

beef is one of the best sources of protein around. However, in our ever

zealous attempts at bigger, better, faster we inject cattle with every

imaginable drug under the sun. Hormones, antibiotics, you name it. In

addition to that they are fed in ways that would turn your stomach. Only

this year did the Dept. of Ag finally say not to feed cows... COWS! They

would grind up beef, other tissues, etc., and add it all to the feed.

Sorry - but cattle are STRICT vegetarians, not omnivores. They just don't

grow right when we dink around with them. And while you're considering what

they eat (which when eating them is indirectly, and even directly, what WE

eat) don't leave out the herbicides and pesticides used to treat the feed,

and even the animals themselves. Then of course there is the question about

genetic engineering. While some juries are still out on that it remains to

be seen how those changes will effect our population over the next several

decades but we are notorious for profit now, deny later, pay never. We The

People, in the form of our Government, are anything BUT trustworthy, as

evidenced by the recent disclosures from the USG of secretly spraying

experimental biologic weapons on school children right here in the US. God

only knows what they do abroad! (Sorry - OT)

Then we have to check-in on last days feedings... " If " cattle are taken OFF

corn and OFF feed and given plan old garden variety grass like they normally

eat on the range for the final 5-7 days before slaughter, the risk of e-coli

is eliminated... excepting the processing plant of course -- and those are a

horror story all unto themselves.

Then we have the dating, re-dating, spicing issues in distribution at the

grocer's level.

And of course the cooking. Well done is safe, less is less safe. (I prefer

slightly unsafe, AKA: M.R. )

So let's say you can actually find what might be called " free range " ,

" organic " cattle, that you have full oversight of final feedings, slaughter,

cleanliness, etc. Now we get down to the basic problem...

Beef - just plain old beef - is WELL KNOWN to cause flares in RA. Much of

this is attributed to animal fat... which also helps explain some of the

problem with dairy products and why for some people they react more

violently (or noticeably) to say, fatty ice cream than low-fat ice cream.

However, beef protein is also known to cause flares in RA w/out regard to

the fat.

As far as pork is concerned, it goes along the same line but my comments

about bacon and ham were very specifically about the chemicals used in them,

the nitrates, nitrites and nitrosamines. These are very bad chemicals and

yet they continue to be allowed in our foodstuffs, as does Rape Seed Oil

under the name " Canola " . So that's the reasoning behind the comment. HTH

Regards,

Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

rheumatic diet

> >

> >

> >> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

> >>

> >> Hi Mado,

> >> Breakfast is easy - eggs. Add bacon or ham if you like. IT is not the

> >> animal fat that hurts you. You can also eat cottage cheese but get the

> 4%

> >> fat not low fat. Low fat means more carbos. Eat berries,

strawberries,

> >> blueberries, and melon for low carbo fruit. I continue to recommend

that

> >> you buy PROTEIN POWER in paperback for about $7 by Eades and Eades. IT

> is

> >> available at all the bookstores and gives the best overview, in my

> >opinion.

> >> I think everyone should read this book or one like it, not just take my

> or

> >> someone else's word for a low carbo diet. Hope this helps.

> >> a C.

> >>

> >> > From Mado:

> >> >

> >> > I sure would like a good discussion on this topic - it is so

confusing.

> >> At

> >> > present I am avoiding all sugars, all yeast and carbo except for

meats,

> >> > vegetables, nuts and grains. I allow myself one fruit a day - that

> one

> >> is

> >> > though - and I am very careful with the meats not to buy processed

> >salami,

> >> > etc. I try to eat fish often and thank God for the bar-b-q.

> >> >

> >> > My main problem is the breakfeast - what to eat? Any suggestion.

> >> >

> >> > Mado

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> --------------------------- ONElist

Sponsor ----------------------------

> >>

> >> WIN a trip to Hawaii!

> >> Enter ONElist's Hawaiian Sweepstakes. Go to:

> >> <a href= " http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/hawaii1 " >Click Here</a>

> >>

>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>

> >

> >

> >---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Geoff and all,

This is why I don't want to take thymic extract supplements or Armour

thyroid. Probably I am being over cautious, but I am afraid of viruses and

mad cow disease from these products. Meat is not too safe and products from

animal glands are worse. Just my opinion.

a C.

> From: " Geoff Crenshaw " <geoff@...>

>

> Several reasons, but not necessarily obvious ones. As you doubtless know,

> beef is one of the best sources of protein around. However, in our ever

> zealous attempts at bigger, better, faster we inject cattle with every

> imaginable drug under the sun. Hormones, antibiotics, you name it. In

> addition to that they are fed in ways that would turn your stomach. Only

> this year did the Dept. of Ag finally say not to feed cows... COWS! They

> would grind up beef, other tissues, etc., and add it all to the feed.

[Guest guest]

a,

I don't know if your caution is realistic or overly-reactive, sorry. Last

data I saw on Mad Cow was the Brit's are expecting to " know " the majority of

the extent of infection in ten years due to the rate at which the disease

progresses. Doesn't help much right now.

I've only recently (last 2 years) found out the extent of the " mixed feed "

used on our cattle out here. Seems that for the most part the dairy cows are

the ones hit hardest, the beef cattle least, FWIW.

Regards,

Geoff Crenshaw, ACC -----------------------

Captain Cook's Cruise Center ** Usual Disclaimers **

-----------------------

Religion: Man's attempt to discover God

Christianity: God's offer to save humankind

Re: rheumatic diet

> From: a Carnes <paulajeanne@...>

>

> Geoff and all,

> This is why I don't want to take thymic extract supplements or Armour

> thyroid. Probably I am being over cautious, but I am afraid of viruses and

> mad cow disease from these products. Meat is not too safe and products

from

> animal glands are worse. Just my opinion.

> a C.

>

>

> > From: " Geoff Crenshaw " <geoff@...>

> >

> > Several reasons, but not necessarily obvious ones. As you doubtless

know,

> > beef is one of the best sources of protein around. However, in our ever

> > zealous attempts at bigger, better, faster we inject cattle with every

> > imaginable drug under the sun. Hormones, antibiotics, you name it. In

> > addition to that they are fed in ways that would turn your stomach. Only

> > this year did the Dept. of Ag finally say not to feed cows... COWS! They

> > would grind up beef, other tissues, etc., and add it all to the feed.

>

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to make everyone anxious (myself included!), but all our

supplements unless they are vegicaps are in gelatin which is from cattle,

right?

Please let me be wrong. But I think not.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Oops, I have started something. Let me say that I am not a vegetarian or

afraid to eat animal products. My concern was particularly for something

that comes from animal glands such as the thymus. I would really be afraid

of anything from glands because that would be where viruses and prions would

be harbored. It is very difficult to be sure that viruses are killed. It is

impossible to kill prions by any method we know today. Should there be

prions present, one would be infected. It is unlikely that there are prions

in meat or animal cartiledge and viruses in those sources would be killed by

heat. I have asked a couple of molecular biologists about this and they

agreed that there is some risk from glandular extracts. They are not so

concerned about meat, and gelatin would fall in that category. Anyway, this

is what I THINK.

a C.

> From: SEG14@...

>

> I don't mean to make everyone anxious (myself included!), but all our

> supplements unless they are vegicaps are in gelatin which is from cattle,

> right?

> Please let me be wrong. But I think not.

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

I would like to add my experience to what Olivia described about Ajay's

diet, etc. It's amazing to read what commonalities I have with other

MS'ers, such as Ajay.

For me there were two components of diet that made a big difference to

my

health. One, which I started out with and saw some improvement from was

the

Swank diet (low saturated fat). The MS Diet Book by Roy L. Swank and

Barbara Dugan discusses the diet (and recipes), the theory and describes

the success they've had with the diet over more than 30 years. I believe

it

says in the book that people on the Swank diet have a 95% reduction in

relapse rates. The thing is, you have to follow the diet closely. Dr.

Swank

told me that if you have even a little bit more saturated fat than they

advocate, you'll have relapses just as if you weren't following the diet

at

all.

Because of the improvements I saw after I started the Swank diet, I

gained

confidence and looked into other " alternative methods " of regaining my

health. I looked into another diet related significant factor I had

heard

that contributed to MS - that of food allergens. I addressed my food

allergens and saw a fantastic improvement. See my web site at

http://www.halcyon.com/glenna/ms/ms.htm for more details. I started with

the " pulse test " and identified/avoided some foods that I was sensitive

to.

I later had a allergy blood test whose results largely agreed with my

pulse

test. I, like Ajay, found that I am sensitive to a large number of

seemingly innocuous foods. I avoided them for a while and gradually

reintroduced some of them and started rotating my diet so I don't always

eat the same things every day (eating the same things every day

encourages

you to become allergic to the food). I also began to eat just organic

foods

- I found that I am sensitive to non organic veggies - probably to the

pesticides that are used on them. I continue to avoid some foods that I

have been found to be sensitive to - that are common MS bad boys -

dairy,

wheat and sugar. I also avoid caffeine. I now base my diet primarily on

fresh vegetables.

I, like Ajay also tried a drug, Cromolyn Sodium to desensitize my

stomach/intestines and to prevent allergic reactions to food/ the " leaky

gut " syndrome. Unlike Ajay, it didn't work for me. So I have to avoid

some

foods and had to build up to eating others. I looked up Cromolyn Sodium

in

my " drug book " and saw that there's a brand name of it called Intal, so

perhaps it's the same drug that Ajay took successfully?

But, even though the Cromolyn Sodium didn't work, my diet has! I am SO

MUCH

better than I was when I started this " program " . I've gone from barely

being able to walk down the hall (and needing the aide of the wall) to

running a mile several times per week and lifting weights. I credit my

diet

largely with this improvement. I do some additional things - exercise is

a

biggie (which I had to gradually get in to, because I initially didn't

have

the strength/stamina to do it). I'm now about to pursue amalgam

replacement. We'll see how that goes… I still have a couple of " residual

symptoms " , but I'm MUCH improved since I started paying attention to my

diet.

I'm truly convinced that for many people, our diet/lifestyles are what

caused us to become ill with MS. Fixing your diet/lifestyle will enable

your body to heal itself.

Take care,

Glenna