Re: ultimate exercise solution

[Guest guest]

Regarding situations like the " backyard breeders " , and many other problems we have. I think the biggest problem is that we cannot outlaw stupidity and greed, that I think is at the root of so many problems. There are wonderful breeders who treat their animals like the precious souls they are and so many others who use them for their own gain or do such stupid things. I saw a lady on a TV show that was about breeding traits into/out of dogs. She bred a certain type of smallish dog to have rounder eyes because she liked that look. The journalist said, but these (particular) dogs are more susceptible to colds when bred like this. The woman quickly retorted, " oh who cares when they are so cute! " Says a lot about society in many different ways.

Designer dogs are a whole new problem.

I don't know how the government can distinguish, in its laws, how to control good breeders/farmers, etc, and bad ones. I know there needs to be a lot more oversight for sure and local courts have to be willing to prosecute people doing wrong things. When I used to see the news reports of puppy mills and the government doing nothing to stop them, when cruelty was so evident, it was hard to believe.

Not too long ago, a woman in RI brought a parrot at a store. She went to another store where she talked about buying the first parrot, then stole another parrot from that second store. They were able to track her down quickly due to the information she gave to the first store with that purchase. The police rushed to her home but she had already cut off the foot of the stolen parrot, apparently to get off its ID band. She was charged with a felony for stealing but only a misdemeanor for mutilating the bird. It's such a backward way of thinking.

On 1/6/08, labtrek1941 <labtrek1941@...

> wrote:

You sound knowledgable on the farm animal issues, so maybe you can clarify something for me, Janet. When we buy eggs, and they are labeled from free range hens, what does it really mean? I have read that lots of those labelings are deceptive.

I have read that as many as 40% of dogs registered with the AKC are not purebred. That does not surprise me. I think labeling and snob appeal has spoiled many breeds. Maybe the backyard breeders which the show dog people rail against are the ones who have it right. They have a dog they love to be with so much that they want to reproduce her. So they breed her to the nicest dog of that breed that they know, another dog that people love to be around. Maybe a good formula for producing a good dog.

My brother's German Shepherd is from winning bloodlines and yet he has those overangulated structurally impossible hocks that showtype American GSDs usually have. The Germans do not breed that type of dog. We do the same thing with horses in this country. If it is visually beautiful that is all that counts. The Quarter Horses for many years had impossibly small feet for their bulk. The Thoroughbreds were bred to deliver a foal that was too big to be born without help. The Arabians of the 70's were too " rare and wonderful " to be used for anything. Dogs and horses may be our best friends, but we too often, are not theirs.

I had heard of the practices with veal, but somehow, thought they only did that in Japan.

Never any more veal for me!! I think we are held accountable at some point.

W

..

[Guest guest]

I try to buy organic eggs from free range chickens and hope for the best.

W

,

All we can do is the little bit that each of us can do, and it helps greatly if we occasionally follow an action alert and send emails to our elected representatives. One wonderful thing about that HSUS blog that I sent you is that they make it SO easy! They keep track of all the bills and if something is pending there will be a form email available and you just have to type in your zip code to get your representatives, then you can personalize it and email it.

It was thanks to that system that the Atlanta Falcons received something like 300,000 emails in the week after the information came out about Vick!

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

What a great site. I bookmarked it and will go to it regularly. Thanks.

,

I thought you might particularly enjoy seeing all the work that they have done about horse slaughter. that has been one of their big causes in the past couple of years.

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

felony for stealing but only a misdemeanor for mutilating the bird. It's such a backward way of thinking

The fact that she was only charged with a misdeamonor for mutilating the bird is a prime example of why laws need to be changed.

There are many ways to target commercial puppy mills as far as the laws. Fortunately we now have one state that is starting to make serious changes in their laws and that is Pennsylvancia - long known as the Puppy Mill Capital of the east because of the horrible, HORRIBLE puppy mills in the Amish country. There are over 500 mills with over 500 dogs in Lancaster County alone. There have never been laws requiring the areas to be heated or cooled, tiny breeds are regularly freezing in the snow, wire cages are stacked so that urine and feces drops onto the animals in the lower cages causes open sores and diseases, owners routinely do their own surgeries without benefit of vet care, they have broken legs from getting trapped in the wire and are left them dangling as long as they can breed.

The new dog law board has now been in existence for two years and has had groups (AKC included) fighting them every step of the way. the group has been disbanded twice I think and restarted. If the new proposed regulations go through wired floored cages will be eliminated, cages cannot be stacked and animals will be required to have exercise areas. The cage area requirements will be doubled so all animals can actually stand up and the number of animals in one cage will be limited. Owners will not be allowed to do their own ear croppings and cesarean sections and vet care will be mandatory. Of course these regulations will also have to be enforced, but its a start. Here is a very eye opening site about the conditions in Pennsylvania.PuppyMill Awareness Day

ok, I swear I will NOW get off this bandwagon!

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

IMO, they shouldn't make laws to improve the conditions in the puppy mills, they need to shut them down. End it. Playing around with requirements just means more suffering for the dogs because these people don't care enough. They won't likely comply with those rules and the enforcement people won't do their job and it'll continue. Just shut them down.

Elaine

felony for stealing but only a misdemeanor for mutilating the bird. It's such a backward way of thinking

The fact that she was only charged with a misdeamonor for mutilating the bird is a prime example of why laws need to be changed.

There are many ways to target commercial puppy mills as far as the laws. Fortunately we now have one state that is starting to make serious changes in their laws and that is Pennsylvancia - long known as the Puppy Mill Capital of the east because of the horrible, HORRIBLE puppy mills in the Amish country. There are over 500 mills with over 500 dogs in Lancaster County alone. There have never been laws requiring the areas to be heated or cooled, tiny breeds are regularly freezing in the snow, wire cages are stacked so that urine and feces drops onto the animals in the lower cages causes open sores and diseases, owners routinely do their own surgeries without benefit of vet care, they have broken legs from getting trapped in the wire and are left them dangling as long as they can breed.

The new dog law board has now been in existence for two years and has had groups (AKC included) fighting them every step of the way. the group has been disbanded twice I think and restarted. If the new proposed regulations go through wired floored cages will be eliminated, cages cannot be stacked and animals will be required to have exercise areas. The cage area requirements will be doubled so all animals can actually stand up and the number of animals in one cage will be limited. Owners will not be allowed to do their own ear croppings and cesarean sections and vet care will be mandatory. Of course these regulations will also have to be enforced, but its a start. Here is a very eye opening site about the conditions in Pennsylvania.

PuppyMill Awareness Day

ok, I swear I will NOW get off this bandwagon!

Janet

Start the year off right.

Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

BTW, the reason I heard about the bird story is I saw a headline about it because the woman died a couple weeks ago due to a combination of drugs she was taking. It appears they don't think it was an overdose, or not an intentional one. She was supposed to have appeared in court recently and apparently many involved in the case didn't know about her death until she didn't show up. But I'd guess her death was reported to authorities when it happened because the article said a roommate had discovered it at the time.

..

[Guest guest]

they shouldn't make laws to improve the conditions in the puppy mills, they need to shut them down.

Well, then again, what is a mill. There is a small commercial dog breeding facility near one of my patients that I keep a close eye on. There are probably about 30 toy breed dogs in it. I have gone over there and checked it out, pretending to buy a dog. The dogs are not taken inside and loved and pampered the way house dogs are, but they are not over crowded, they all have exercise runs and the runs are very clean with plenty of fresh water and she took me out to see the dogs in the facility with no hesitation. They all appear to be very well fed and healthy and friendly. But she does breed dogs for money and does not keep them inside like pets. So where do you draw the lines? Its very difficult.

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

BTW, the reason I heard about the bird story is I saw a headline about it because the woman died a couple weeks ago due to a combination of drugs she was taking.

For some reason people with mental health issues frequently drag animals into it. One of our nurses runs a cat rescue and another rescues Rottweilers. Last year we were able to shut down a situation where a woman had attempted to breed dogs for money to save her farm and the work got out of hand and then she got sick and everything snowballed. It was a very very bad situation by the time I was called in as a nurse and found all this. Fortunately the local animal protection agency was able to help. I hear the situation in Maine recently where over 200 dogs were rescued was also called in by a home health nurse.Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

totally agree, Elaine. I also agree that cruelty and neglect penalties are far too light, and that curelty and neglect should, in most instances, be a felony

I think that both laws and the funding for enforcement of laws changes depending on public demand and lawmaker response to those demands. That is why I believe that its important not only to support those who give care, but also to support those who take on the monumental job of educating, lobbying, and working to change laws - regardless of what the issues are.

In addition to my interest in animals, I am attempt to make changes in my own life to conserve and to help the environment (going GREEN) and I do spend time making my views known to my elected representatives about those issues. I think we have more power than we know to enact change if we simply keep on keeping on with the issues that we believe are deeply important.

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I totally agree, Elaine. I also agree that cruelty and neglect penalties are far too light, and that curelty and neglect should, in most instances, be a felony

W Re: ultimate exercise solution

IMO, they shouldn't make laws to improve the conditions in the puppy mills, they need to shut them down. End it. Playing around with requirements just means more suffering for the dogs because these people don't care enough. They won't likely comply with those rules and the enforcement people won't do their job and it'll continue. Just shut them down.

Elaine

On 1/7/08, DreamOn145aol <DreamOn145aol> wrote:

In a message dated 1/6/2008 8:42:10 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elrolegmail writes:

felony for stealing but only a misdemeanor for mutilating the bird. It's such a backward way of thinking

The fact that she was only charged with a misdeamonor for mutilating the bird is a prime example of why laws need to be changed.

There are many ways to target commercial puppy mills as far as the laws. Fortunately we now have one state that is starting to make serious changes in their laws and that is Pennsylvancia - long known as the Puppy Mill Capital of the east because of the horrible, HORRIBLE puppy mills in the Amish country. There are over 500 mills with over 500 dogs in Lancaster County alone. There have never been laws requiring the areas to be heated or cooled, tiny breeds are regularly freezing in the snow, wire cages are stacked so that urine and feces drops onto the animals in the lower cages causes open sores and diseases, owners routinely do their own surgeries without benefit of vet care, they have broken legs from getting trapped in the wire and are left them dangling as long as they can breed.

The new dog law board has now been in existence for two years and has had groups (AKC included) fighting them every step of the way. the group has been disbanded twice I think and restarted. If the new proposed regulations go through wired floored cages will be eliminated, cages cannot be stacked and animals will be required to have exercise areas. The cage area requirements will be doubled so all animals can actually stand up and the number of animals in one cage will be limited. Owners will not be allowed to do their own ear croppings and cesarean sections and vet care will be mandatory. Of course these regulations will also have to be enforced, but its a start. Here is a very eye opening site about the conditions in Pennsylvania. PuppyMill Awareness Day

ok, I swear I will NOW get off this bandwagon!

Janet

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

[Guest guest]

Here's an interesting article about foreclosures affecting animals

Sierra's mother was abandoned in an empty house here in ston County, pregnant with nine puppiesStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

The crowd in the store before a snow storm always seems funny to me.

Bob,

Many many years ago in the long ago and far away (1976-1980) I managed a liquor store in a little college town in upstate New York. If you think the grocery store is crowded before a big storm, you should see the liquor store!!! LOL

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

Here's an interesting article about foreclosures affecting animals.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_7787218

On 1/7/08, labtrek1941 <labtrek1941@...

> wrote:

I totally agree, Elaine. I also agree that cruelty and neglect penalties are far too light, and that curelty and neglect should, in most instances, be a felony

W----- Original Message -----

..

[Guest guest]

couldn't have been a wonderful time for the mouse.

my cat caught a mouse in the condo and had a wonderful time playing with it and she cried when it stopped moving. we threw it out and she cried and looked for another one. cyndy

..

[Guest guest]

One problem is, when animals are found like this, who do you call. A couple years ago in RI, several homes full of cats were found and reported. Animal control came in and killed most of the animals citing stupid, flimsy reasons. It's not okay to have 80 cats. No doubt about it, esp since most of these people don't neuter them so they inbred and increase the population. However the cats weren't being mistreated, were being fed and watered and probably petted. If the state couldn't deal with it (and they weren't expected to be able to) the cats should have been left where they were. Then a rescue group could have gone in and helped the owners deal with the situation. Again it's hard because these people often don't understand they need help, with the cats and probably some other issues. But killing the animals is wrong and i have to wonder about people who want to kill animals for no reason

I don't know the answer. It's taking a bad situation and making it bad.

In California, animal control kills many of the animals they take in unless rescue groups can take them. Right now Santa Clara County wants to kill all (feral - but do they know which they are catching) cats on their property. They were going to kill them outright but when enough people complained about that, said they would take them to the pound. Well the pound can't care for the ones it has now and an influx of a large number of cats will overwhelm it and overwhelm the rescue orgs. They will kill them. The animals are doing okay where they are and many rescue groups have offered to neuter the cats and release them back to their colonies. The county says it doesn't have money to deal with the cats and that's why they have to kill them. How much money does it take to leave them alone? It makes no sense.

BTW, the reason I heard about the bird story is I saw a headline about it because the woman died a couple weeks ago due to a combination of drugs she was taking.

For some reason people with mental health issues frequently drag animals into it. One of our nurses runs a cat rescue and another rescues Rottweilers. Last year we were able to shut down a situation where a woman had attempted to breed dogs for money to save her farm and the work got out of hand and then she got sick and everything snowballed. It was a very very bad situation by the time I was called in as a nurse and found all this. Fortunately the local animal protection agency was able to help. I hear the situation in Maine recently where over 200 dogs were rescued was also called in by a home health nurse.

Start the year off right.

Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

In California, animal control kills many of the animals they take in unless rescue groups can take them.

One of the problems is that you can change laws, but unless you also target money for enforcement, you have not done much. There was a huge deal made this year about the fact that after the Vick case it became a federal felony to participate in dog fighting. Well, that's wonderful. However, it has been a felony to participate in dog fighting in North Carolina for years, but they don't enforce it and we have one of the worst dog fighting states in the country. The USDA has supposedly been inspecting puppy mills for years, but they have something like one or two inspectors per state and they are encouraged to find on the side of the "farmers" In other words, its not their job to protect the animals and they just overlook everything they see and kennels with a history of years of violations continue to operate. People have to make enough noise on a regular basis to make it known that this is important to them. If they do that then it becomes newsworthy and then it becomes of interest to politicians who want votes and changes are made. I believe that the fact that 86 new state laws for animal protection were passed this year can be attributed in very large part to the popularity of the shows on Animal Planet and educational efforts by the SPCA and HSUS.

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

write, so why don't each of us write our local newspapers and see who gets

,

One of my New Years resolutions is to make more of a difference for animals in North Carolina. I could work on that by subscribing to one of our local newspapers and getting involved in animals issues.

JanetStart the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

I have been noticing all the cars at the liquor stores before hurricanes for a lot of years. Shows where priorities are. We might run out of water or candles or batteries, but we will be well stocked with spirits.

W

Re: Re: ultimate exercise solution

In a message dated 1/7/2008 2:55:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bobheff writes:

The crowd in the store before a snow storm always seems funny to me.

Bob,

Many many years ago in the long ago and far away (1976-1980) I managed a liquor store in a little college town in upstate New York. If you think the grocery store is crowded before a big storm, you should see the liquor store!!! LOL

Janet

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

[Guest guest]

And as you probably know better than I, when you remove a feral colony, another one just moves in to take its place. They would be so much better off to spay/nerter and vaccinate the ones they have and leave them in place, and the cats could do their job keeping the rodent population down (and sadly, songbirds as well). Another place where we can be useful by writing letters to the editors and educating about the benefits of leaving feral colonies in place. We all like to write, so why don't each of us write our local newspapers and see who gets published first?

W

Re: ultimate exercise solution

One problem is, when animals are found like this, who do you call. A couple years ago in RI, several homes full of cats were found and reported. Animal control came in and killed most of the animals citing stupid, flimsy reasons. It's not okay to have 80 cats. No doubt about it, esp since most of these people don't neuter them so they inbred and increase the population. However the cats weren't being mistreated, were being fed and watered and probably petted. If the state couldn't deal with it (and they weren't expected to be able to) the cats should have been left where they were. Then a rescue group could have gone in and helped the owners deal with the situation. Again it's hard because these people often don't understand they need help, with the cats and probably some other issues. But killing the animals is wrong and i have to wonder about people who want to kill animals for no reason

I don't know the answer. It's taking a bad situation and making it bad.

In California, animal control kills many of the animals they take in unless rescue groups can take them. Right now Santa Clara County wants to kill all (feral - but do they know which they are catching) cats on their property. They were going to kill them outright but when enough people complained about that, said they would take them to the pound. Well the pound can't care for the ones it has now and an influx of a large number of cats will overwhelm it and overwhelm the rescue orgs. They will kill them. The animals are doing okay where they are and many rescue groups have offered to neuter the cats and release them back to their colonies. The county says it doesn't have money to deal with the cats and that's why they have to kill them. How much money does it take to leave them alone? It makes no sense.

On 1/7/08, DreamOn145aol <DreamOn145aol> wrote:

In a message dated 1/7/2008 1:20:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elrolegmail writes:

BTW, the reason I heard about the bird story is I saw a headline about it because the woman died a couple weeks ago due to a combination of drugs she was taking.

For some reason people with mental health issues frequently drag animals into it. One of our nurses runs a cat rescue and another rescues Rottweilers. Last year we were able to shut down a situation where a woman had attempted to breed dogs for money to save her farm and the work got out of hand and then she got sick and everything snowballed. It was a very very bad situation by the time I was called in as a nurse and found all this. Fortunately the local animal protection agency was able to help. I hear the situation in Maine recently where over 200 dogs were rescued was also called in by a home health nurse.

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

[Guest guest]

, taking action is a great idea. At the time the supervisors were taking a vote to kill (via the pound) the cats in Santa Clara County, I wrote to all of them. Only one answered and he was one of two (out of five) who had voted against it and that's what he said in his message. However I feel that's not the end of the story, or shouldn't be as they want to kill cats. I don't live in that county and they have quite a few rescue groups working on the problem (the supervisors being the problem). I don't know what's happening now but that county doesn't even have enough money to keep their employees from being laid off so I wonder if they are truly spending their resources on catching the cats.

If we wrote our local papers without a controversy going on at the moment, locally, would anyone pay attention, do you think?

And as you probably know better than I, when you remove a feral colony, another one just moves in to take its place. They would be so much better off to spay/nerter and vaccinate the ones they have and leave them in place, and the cats could do their job keeping the rodent population down (and sadly, songbirds as well). Another place where we can be useful by writing letters to the editors and educating about the benefits of leaving feral colonies in place. We all like to write, so why don't each of us write our local newspapers and see who gets published first?

W

..

[Guest guest]

When I used to travel and visit a place off season, esp in the winter, everything would be closed up tight except the liquor store and maybe a bar. Like you said, people have their priorities.

Elaine

I have been noticing all the cars at the liquor stores before hurricanes for a lot of years. Shows where priorities are. We might run out of water or candles or batteries, but we will be well stocked with spirits.

W

..

[Guest guest]

I agree, Janet.

Elaine

In California, animal control kills many of the animals they take in unless rescue groups can take them.

One of the problems is that you can change laws, but unless you also target money for enforcement, you have not done much. There was a huge deal made this year about the fact that after the Vick case it became a federal felony to participate in dog fighting. Well, that's wonderful. However, it has been a felony to participate in dog fighting in North Carolina for years, but they don't enforce it and we have one of the worst dog fighting states in the country. The USDA has supposedly been inspecting puppy mills for years, but they have something like one or two inspectors per state and they are encouraged to find on the side of the " farmers " In other words, its not their job to protect the animals and they just overlook everything they see and kennels with a history of years of violations continue to operate. People have to make enough noise on a regular basis to make it known that this is important to them. If they do that then it becomes newsworthy and then it becomes of interest to politicians who want votes and changes are made. I believe that the fact that 86 new state laws for animal protection were passed this year can be attributed in very large part to the popularity of the shows on Animal Planet and educational efforts by the SPCA and HSUS.

Janet

Start the year off right.

Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

[Guest guest]

One of the important messages of these programs is that even when these people are caught, they usually cannot be prosecuted. For instance you can find a dog on a property being starved and neglected in every way, and the property owner can say, "That is not my dog." and that is the end of that. Also, with the dog fighting, they can break up the fights, and they more often get the people for associated drug dealing than for the dogs. No one there owns up to owning any particular dog, and the dogs do not have tattoos on them saying "I belong to " so everyone goes free on the dog fighting issue, and the dogs are seized ane euthanized. Who is getting punished here"?

W

Re: ultimate exercise solution

In a message dated 1/7/2008 7:14:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elrolegmail writes:

In California, animal control kills many of the animals they take in unless rescue groups can take them.

One of the problems is that you can change laws, but unless you also target money for enforcement, you have not done much. There was a huge deal made this year about the fact that after the Vick case it became a federal felony to participate in dog fighting. Well, that's wonderful. However, it has been a felony to participate in dog fighting in North Carolina for years, but they don't enforce it and we have one of the worst dog fighting states in the country. The USDA has supposedly been inspecting puppy mills for years, but they have something like one or two inspectors per state and they are encouraged to find on the side of the "farmers" In other words, its not their job to protect the animals and they just overlook everything they see and kennels with a history of years of violations continue to operate. People have to make enough noise on a regular basis to make it known that this is important to them. If they do that then it becomes newsworthy and then it becomes of interest to politicians who want votes and changes are made. I believe that the fact that 86 new state laws for animal protection were passed this year can be attributed in very large part to the popularity of the shows on Animal Planet and educational efforts by the SPCA and HSUS.

Janet

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

[Guest guest]

Way to go, Janet. For a horse or cow to attract attention in Mississippi as neclected, it has to down and near death. I watch "Animal Cops Houston" and see seized horses in conditions that would be generally called "pretty good shape" here. We have lots of grass, but the soil is not very good and parasites, in this semitropical climate, are rampant, so any animal turned out to exist on the typical pasture, is probably not going to do well. Many fields that look green really have very little real grass, and would probably not support anything but goats, if that. I have tried to educate people on this, but if it is an inconvenient truth, they ignore it. I can only keep trying.

W

Re: ultimate exercise solution

In a message dated 1/8/2008 2:10:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, labtrek1941bellsouth (DOT) net writes:

write, so why don't each of us write our local newspapers and see who gets

,

One of my New Years resolutions is to make more of a difference for animals in North Carolina. I could work on that by subscribing to one of our local newspapers and getting involved in animals issues.

Janet

Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1213 - Release Date: 1/7/2008 9:14 AM

[Guest guest]

unfortunately i left my camera on the front seat of the car when we

parked it, and the camera went on walk about with the pictures still

inside. lesson learned! couldnt believe i was so forgetful, must

have been the sleep deprivation.

laurie

> >

> > absolutely it counts, Laurie. Oregon is such a beautiful state. I

> used t

> > ride up the coast during winter (usually Feb when the storms

were mostly

> > gone and beginning in CA) as far as I could go in the days I had,

> then on

> > the last day I'd get on Route 5 and return home. I loved those trips

> > and hope to do it again some day. I'd also like to explore the

> coastal mtns

> > and more of Washington. Someday......

> >

> > Elaine

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1210 - Release Date:

1/5/2008 11:46 AM

>