Guest guest Posted September 11, 2005 Report Share Posted September 11, 2005 > This doesn't exactly address the porking up with transdermal E > problem. I wonder how much of it is porking up with fat vs water weight??? -----> Yeah that's the wierd thing. My temperature is actually great almost perfect every day for the first time in maybe 20 years. I was shocked when I saw my TSH at 14. The highest it had ever been was 6 and I was freezing even in August in Ga then. I need to have my TSH rechecke soon and be sure all is on the right track. Bye Lynn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Maybe we need a little P to help the E to work properly? Karin - this is exactly what I believe! I understand that there are women who do not do well on P and never did. But for the rest of us (me included) who always did well on P until I used horse sized doses of it...after stopping P for 3 months to get the overload out of my system, I went low on the E (1.25 bi-est capsules BID)and then added back 100mg P BID in order to stop my cycling and prevent bleeding. I think that the fact that I have been on 4 grains Armour thyroid for 9 years also helped me metabolize the excess out of me faster than some women have been able to. I got extremely hypo while on the WP and before that, high doses of E and P despite the fact that I have been on Armour for 14 years and hadn't changed my dose in 9 years. E blocks thyroid hormone. anyway - I have lost 4 lbs doing nothing different with my diet in the past 2 weeks. the weight is now begining to come off. The P was not the entire problem - the high E plus the high P created the problems for me. Now I am returning to normal...but as my doctor told me - it has taken almost 3 months on low E plus P. Last week, I reduced my dose of P to 25mg BID. My particular method is only because I decided to stop cycling - my heavy periods and breakthru bleeding had become problematic - I took only enough E so that I would not experience meno symptoms while I stopped my periods..I also had to use enough P daily to stop the cycling. My doctor has said that once we stop the cycling, we can add more E for a better quality of life. The first month, coming down off the high E was very hard, but I stuck it out because I knew that for me, this was what I had to do. Now I feel pretty balanced again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine) Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a P reading on my last blood test, and haven't used any for 6months:)) .......oh and how could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. pathway being activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P footprint on me, LOL )) L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 > loss and acne also and joint pain in fingers(thought that was only a P symptom). I have not > used P in the 3-4 mos. Forgot to mention the finger joint pain so these are common symptoms of dropping E huh??? I tried adding a bit of P a month ago and felt rotten. Might try again with a tad of transdermal..... Bye L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine) > > > loss and acne also and joint pain in fingers(thought that was only a > P symptom). I have not > > used P in the 3-4 mos. > > Forgot to mention the finger joint pain so these are common symptoms > of dropping E huh??? > I tried adding a bit of P a month ago and felt rotten. Might try > again with a tad of transdermal..... > > Bye > L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 For what it's worth department: for those having trouble with P transdermals...has anyone been reading of the vaginal method which best targets the intended endometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic and peripherally induces side effects????? Carolyn --- Nuimom@... wrote: > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > merryr@... writes: > > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard > time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it > doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even > though I would feel fine) > > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored > P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for > 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without > the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a > BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 If I weren't using the Pregnenolone/Maca-thing, I would definitely go with the vaginal P, what was the name again ? Charlotte Re: Re: weight and transdermals and other stuff For what it's worth department: for those havingtrouble with P transdermals...has anyone been readingof the vaginal method which best targets the intendedendometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic andperipherally induces side effects????? Carolyn--- Nuimom@... wrote:> > > > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard> time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it> doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even> though I would feel fine)> > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored> P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for> 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without> the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a> BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L> __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 I just started using Prometrium (100 mg) vaginally. I'm not having the nasty side effects I had with oral use (200 mg/day). I'm on Day 8 and so far, no complaints. Val -----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of carolyn eganFor what it's worth department: for those havingtrouble with P transdermals...has anyone been readingof the vaginal method which best targets the intendedendometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic andperipherally induces side effects????? Carolyn--- Nuimom@... wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 What problems were you having ? With the P? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 > What problems were you having ? With the P? > > > > I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent in young women or strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno woman is using E, it is second after cholesterol in the hormonal cascade? I am sure it converts to other things besides just the sex hormones. I know it helps the thyroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the readings!! My P shows up as very low. Can't figure it. > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, > merryr@u... writes: > > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine) > > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability, bloating, fatigue, depression. Val -----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of What problems were you having ? With the P? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 , are you talking about saliva-readings or blood serum ? (Many of us have experienced low P-figures in b l o o d tests, that's why those tests are not reliable for P). Charlotte Re: weight and transdermals and other stuff Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the readings!! My P shows up as very low. Can't figure it. > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, > merryr@u... writes:> > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine)> > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Oh, Charlotte....have you not had the opportunity to read the postings on saliva vs serum tests? And why the levels are indeed rather stratospheric in saliva but not serum? And why the only authentic " gold standard " of hormonal testing (Vliet et.al. et.al., worldwide, is that of the serum tests? Refer also to the extensive compliation of studies on saliva testing as not being reliable in the study from Dr. Barry Wren (among many others studies!!). I had posted these sites on August 30, entitled HELPFUL STUDY LINKS, the first one of which is the Wren study. Go to http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/182_05_070305/wre10534_fm.html The saliva tests have pretty much been shot down, in current medically aware circles. Carolyn --- Mcharlot wrote: > , are you talking about saliva-readings or blood > serum ? > (Many of us have experienced low P-figures in b l o > o d tests, that's why those tests are not reliable > for P). > Charlotte > Re: weight and > transdermals and other stuff > > > Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the > readings!! My P shows > up as very low. Can't figure it. > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > > merryr@u... writes: > > > > Well what are we women to do who have such a > hard time with the > P??? > > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it > doesn't make me > > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even > though I would > feel fine) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored > P.........I still had a > P reading > > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for > 6months:)) .......oh and how > > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, > without the andro. > pathway being > > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I > have a BIG P > footprint on me, > > LOL )) L > > > > > click here for our webpage > http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > **The group conversation is informational in > nature and is not intended as medical advice.** > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Well if it's for strictly protecting the uterus, then we should be applying it vaginally. THis is all I have to do now. Ask my doctor again for another form! > > What problems were you having ? With the P? > > > > > > > > > > I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent in young women or > strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno woman is using E, it > is second after cholesterol in the hormonal cascade? I am sure it > converts to other things besides just the sex hormones. I know it > helps the thyroid. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to be okay using it vaginally? > Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability, bloating, fatigue, depression. > > Val > > -----Original Message----- > From: rhythmicliving > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of > > > What problems were you having ? With the P? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Blood serum. I never had a saliva test. But don't forget, Charlotte, Laurel had low saliva readings too! And she was saturated with the stuff! > > > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > merryr@u... writes: > > > > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the > P??? > > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me > > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would > feel fine) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a > P reading > > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for > 6months:)) .......oh and how > > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. > pathway being > > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P > footprint on me, > > LOL )) L > > > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.** > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message is finally getting through!! We do not need to have blood levels of P that are indicative of what the female body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and that includes the depressive sedative efffects on the brain to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE TISSUE ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are advising - that is, those that do not have any financial interests in compounding pharmacies! (And we all know the heinous side effects we got with oral P!!) There are several products for vaginal administration of P: 1) custom compounded P in waxy-like bullet shaped suppositories that need to be refrigerated and hand inserted (the type used years ago to help a woman sustain her pregnancy from aborting) 2) Prometrium capsules that some use vaginally 3) Prochieve 4% (45 mg) also known as the old Crinone 4% (new name Prochieve 4%), which has been around for a while. This product has been spefically manufactured for the purpose of protecting the uterus from hyperplasia (the 4%) while the 8% product is used to sustain a pregnancy. P.S. NOTE: This product is BEST, as it is actually manufactured for this purpose AND to adhere to the vaginal wall, so there is no slippage and minimal leakage AND is manufactured in a sustained release form so that one does not get the high and fast peaks as you do with the other forms AND each application comes packaged in its own applicator which is designed to insert as high as possible so that all the P gets to the target tissues of the endometrium, not popping out! PROTOCOL: The 4% can be used two ways.... If you want to maintain a monthly menstrual sloughing off, you insert one at night each of only 10 days at the end of your monthly " cycle " . Otherwise, if you want to effect amenorrhea (no period), the it is taken every other day, continuously, throughout the month. Your doctor should be very familiar with the Crinone name. I will here retype a short excerpt that explaining the most imporant efficacy of vaginal P, which is: 1.Protects the uterus 2.Does not go systemic nearly as much as the cream (even tho any compounding pharmacist, trying to protect his business income, will vehemently protest to the opposite!! )))) To quote below from just three of many excerpts: 1. " Progesterone suppositories protect the uterus, but minimize the ststemic side effects of progesterone...AS THERE IS LESS SYSTEMIC ABSORPTION.. " - " Hormones and the Mind " , Klaiber MD 2. " The transvaginal route has advantages, such as...avoidance of first-pass hepatic metabolism...high bioavailability...and local endometrial effect....This study demonstrated that vaginally administered progesterone could reach (target tissue levels only) that are similar to those obtained in ovulatory and luteal phases. " - Gynecologic and Obstetric Investigation Vol. 58, No.2, 2004 Medline Abstract (ID 15192285) 3. " Prochieve (Crinone)...is a specially formulated vaginal gel of natural progesterone...it is applied into the vagina where it adheres to the vaginal walls (avoiding the leakage of other suppositories and THUS ASSURING PROPER DOSING)to be absorbed directly where it is needed...Because it is applied through the vagina and goes to the uterus, the progesterone is absorbed right where you need it most...the 4% product is the one used for HRT treatment> The 4% gel delivers 45mg of natural progesterone into your uterine system IN A SUSTAINED RELEASE method. The major benefit is that becasue it goes DIRECTLY TO THE TARGET ORGAN, THE UTERUS, YOU DO NOT GET HIGH BLOOD LEVELS OF PROGESTERONE (which causes a plethora of negative side effects systemically). " The vaginal gel form is...more bioavailable - that is, it is able to be used more easily, and isn't metabolized systemically. So you don't need as high a dosage - again, cutting back on the side effects. Studies have shown that the majority of woman did not have the side effects normally associated with progestins or the micronized progesterone creams or orals. " - www.inhousepharmacy.co.uk Golly, gals...I sure hope this helps!! xoxoxCarolyn --- wrote: > Well if it's for strictly protecting the uterus, > then we should be > applying it vaginally. THis is all I have to do > now. Ask my doctor > again for another form! > > > > > > > > > What problems were you having ? With the > P? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent > in young women or > > strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno > woman is using E, > it > > is second after cholesterol in the hormonal > cascade? I am sure it > > converts to other things besides just the sex > hormones. I know it > > helps the thyroid. > > > > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Val...sounds exactly like the list enunciated ad nauseum by Dr. Vliet for P side effects. Carolyn --- Valarie wrote: > Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability, > bloating, fatigue, depression. > > Val > > -----Original Message----- > From: rhythmicliving > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of > > > > What problems were you having ? With the P? > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Per saliva tests...the many clinical, peer-reviewed studies (see Barry Wren MD, for several) clearly exhibited that the saliva readings would be " all over the place " (Vliet,MD), from great high to great lows, and not in relation to, or reliably reflective of, what was going on systemically at all! Carolyn --- wrote: > Blood serum. I never had a saliva test. But don't > forget, Charlotte, > Laurel had low saliva readings too! And she was > saturated with the > stuff! > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM > Pacific Standard > Time, > > > merryr@u... writes: > > > > > > Well what are we women to do who have such a > hard time with > the > > P??? > > > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it > doesn't make me > > > comfortable to be just using unopposed E > (even though I would > > feel fine) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored > P.........I still > had a > > P reading > > > on my last blood test, and haven't used any > for > > 6months:)) .......oh and how > > > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, > without the > andro. > > pathway being > > > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I > have a BIG P > > footprint on me, > > > LOL )) L > > > > > > > > > > click here for our webpage > http://rhythmicliving.com/ > > > > **The group conversation is informational in > nature and is not > intended as medical advice.** > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree on all this? Thanks for all this info Carolyn. > AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message is > finally getting through!! We do not need to have blood > levels of P that are indicative of what the female > body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and that > includes the depressive sedative efffects on the brain > to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE TISSUE > ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are > advising - that is, those that do not have any > financial interests in compounding pharmacies! (And we > all know the heinous side effects we got with oral > P!!) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Oh, yeah, !! Ob/gyns have had P suppositories in their tool box for many many years now, and I owe my first grandchild, now a thirteen year old blond lovely, to this vaginal P method!! And, as I had gone back and reread in Vliet...Crinone has been around for quite some time, as well!! It makes such logical sense, I could lay down and cry over the Buddha belly I got on the WP P cream over the last two years!! And, actually, I just hate to admit this...I WAS on the compounded P suppositories BEFORE I went on WP....and I was doing just wonderfully!!! Such divine Mother Nature sense....aim for just the target tissues of the uterus to protect it....and minimize all the side effects that Mother Nature also intended to keep up fat and slow so that we could bring that baby safely into the world (rather than attempting to windsurf a few weeks before giving birth, eh?) SO WE LISTEN TO MOTHER NATURE AND HAVE THE PROGESTERONE GO ONLY TO THE ENDOMETRIUM, AMEN!! Love you guys, Carolyn --- wrote: > Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree > on all this? > Thanks for all this info Carolyn. > > > > > > > > > AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message > is > > finally getting through!! We do not need to have > blood > > levels of P that are indicative of what the female > > body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and > that > > includes the depressive sedative efffects on the > brain > > to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE > TISSUE > > ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are > > advising - that is, those that do not have any > > financial interests in compounding pharmacies! > (And we > > all know the heinous side effects we got with oral > > P!!) > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 P.S. ....I think it would be easier to reach an accord between the various religions of the world, than to try to have doctors reach an accord on ANYthing!! Having said that, I cannot imagine any doctor not going with the Crinone which is tried and true in clinical practice!! Geez...think about it. Those are the guys that prescribed Pro-Vera to us and to our daughters!! Dear God!! Carolyn --- wrote: > Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree > on all this? > Thanks for all this info Carolyn. > > > > > > > > > AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message > is > > finally getting through!! We do not need to have > blood > > levels of P that are indicative of what the female > > body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and > that > > includes the depressive sedative efffects on the > brain > > to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE > TISSUE > > ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are > > advising - that is, those that do not have any > > financial interests in compounding pharmacies! > (And we > > all know the heinous side effects we got with oral > > P!!) > > > > > > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 I'm on Day 9 of 100 mg Prometrium used vaginally. I have had no problems so far. Another thing, progesterone LOWERS HDL - not something we want. The less I get systemically, the happier I am. Val -----Original Message----- From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to be okay using it vaginally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 Hey my HDL IS LOW ENOUGH!!! Oh boy I didn't know this. So why are our doctors telling us to randomly take 100 mg of P a day! > I'm on Day 9 of 100 mg Prometrium used vaginally. I have had no problems so > far. > > Another thing, progesterone LOWERS HDL - not something we want. The less I > get systemically, the happier I am. > > Val > > -----Original Message----- > From: rhythmicliving > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of > > It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go > that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to > be okay using it vaginally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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