weight and transdermals and other stuff

[Guest guest]

> This doesn't exactly address the porking up with transdermal E

> problem. I wonder how much of it is porking up with fat vs water

weight???

-----> Yeah that's the wierd thing. My temperature is actually great

almost perfect every day for the first time in maybe 20 years. I was

shocked when I saw my TSH at 14. The highest it had ever been was 6

and I was freezing even in August in Ga then.

I need to have my TSH rechecke soon and be sure all is on the right track.

Bye

Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Maybe we need a little P to help the E to work properly?

Karin - this is exactly what I believe! I understand that there are

women who do not do well on P and never did. But for the rest of us

(me included) who always did well on P until I used horse sized doses

of it...after stopping P for 3 months to get the overload out of my

system, I went low on the E (1.25 bi-est capsules BID)and then added

back 100mg P BID in order to stop my cycling and prevent bleeding.

I think that the fact that I have been on 4 grains Armour thyroid for

9 years also helped me metabolize the excess out of me faster than

some women have been able to. I got extremely hypo while on the WP

and before that, high doses of E and P despite the fact that I have

been on Armour for 14 years and hadn't changed my dose in 9 years. E

blocks thyroid hormone.

anyway - I have lost 4 lbs doing nothing different with my diet in

the past 2 weeks. the weight is now begining to come off. The P was

not the entire problem - the high E plus the high P created the

problems for me. Now I am returning to normal...but as my doctor

told me - it has taken almost 3 months on low E plus P. Last week, I

reduced my dose of P to 25mg BID.

My particular method is only because I decided to stop cycling - my

heavy periods and breakthru bleeding had become problematic - I took

only enough E so that I would not experience meno symptoms while I

stopped my periods..I also had to use enough P daily to stop the

cycling. My doctor has said that once we stop the cycling, we can

add more E for a better quality of life. The first month, coming

down off the high E was very hard, but I stuck it out because I knew

that for me, this was what I had to do. Now I feel pretty balanced

again

[Guest guest]

Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine)

Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a P reading on my last blood test, and haven't used any for 6months:)) .......oh and how could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. pathway being activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P footprint on me, LOL )) L

[Guest guest]

> loss and acne also and joint pain in fingers(thought that was only a

P symptom). I have not

> used P in the 3-4 mos.

Forgot to mention the finger joint pain so these are common symptoms

of dropping E huh???

I tried adding a bit of P a month ago and felt rotten. Might try

again with a tad of transdermal.....

Bye

L

[Guest guest]

Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P???

No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me

comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine)

>

> > loss and acne also and joint pain in fingers(thought that was only a

> P symptom). I have not

> > used P in the 3-4 mos.

>

> Forgot to mention the finger joint pain so these are common symptoms

> of dropping E huh???

> I tried adding a bit of P a month ago and felt rotten. Might try

> again with a tad of transdermal.....

>

> Bye

> L

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth department: for those having

trouble with P transdermals...has anyone been reading

of the vaginal method which best targets the intended

endometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic and

peripherally induces side effects????? Carolyn

--- Nuimom@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific

> Standard Time,

> merryr@... writes:

>

> Well what are we women to do who have such a hard

> time with the P???

> No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it

> doesn't make me

> comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even

> though I would feel fine)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored

> P.........I still had a P reading

> on my last blood test, and haven't used any for

> 6months:)) .......oh and how

> could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without

> the andro. pathway being

> activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a

> BIG P footprint on me,

> LOL )) L

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

If I weren't using the Pregnenolone/Maca-thing, I would definitely go with the vaginal P, what was the name again ?

Charlotte

Re: Re: weight and transdermals and other stuff

For what it's worth department: for those havingtrouble with P transdermals...has anyone been readingof the vaginal method which best targets the intendedendometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic andperipherally induces side effects????? Carolyn--- Nuimom@... wrote:> > > > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard> time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it> doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even> though I would feel fine)> > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored> P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for> 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without> the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a> BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L> __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

I just started using Prometrium (100 mg) vaginally. I'm not having the nasty side effects I had with oral use (200 mg/day). I'm on Day 8 and so far, no complaints.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of carolyn eganFor what it's worth department: for those havingtrouble with P transdermals...has anyone been readingof the vaginal method which best targets the intendedendometrial tissues while minimizing the systemic andperipherally induces side effects????? Carolyn--- Nuimom@... wrote:

[Guest guest]

What problems were you having ? With the P?

[Guest guest]

> What problems were you having ? With the P?

>

>

>

>

I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent in young women or

strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno woman is using E, it

is second after cholesterol in the hormonal cascade? I am sure it

converts to other things besides just the sex hormones. I know it

helps the thyroid.

[Guest guest]

Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the readings!! My P shows

up as very low. Can't figure it.

>

> In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> merryr@u... writes:

>

> Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the

P???

> No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me

> comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would

feel fine)

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a

P reading

> on my last blood test, and haven't used any for

6months:)) .......oh and how

> could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro.

pathway being

> activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P

footprint on me,

> LOL )) L

[Guest guest]

Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability, bloating, fatigue, depression.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of What problems were you having ? With the P?

[Guest guest]

, are you talking about saliva-readings or blood serum ?

(Many of us have experienced low P-figures in b l o o d tests, that's why those tests are not reliable for P).

Charlotte

Re: weight and transdermals and other stuff

Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the readings!! My P shows up as very low. Can't figure it. > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, > merryr@u... writes:> > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with the P??? > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would feel fine)> > > > > > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still had a P reading > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for 6months:)) .......oh and how > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the andro. pathway being > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P footprint on me, > LOL )) L

[Guest guest]

Oh, Charlotte....have you not had the opportunity to

read the postings on saliva vs serum tests?

And why the levels are indeed rather stratospheric in

saliva but not serum? And why the only authentic " gold

standard " of hormonal testing (Vliet et.al. et.al.,

worldwide, is that of the serum tests?

Refer also to the extensive compliation of studies on

saliva testing as not being reliable in the study from

Dr. Barry Wren (among many others studies!!).

I had posted these sites on August 30, entitled

HELPFUL STUDY LINKS, the first one of which is the

Wren study. Go to

http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/182_05_070305/wre10534_fm.html

The saliva tests have pretty much been shot down, in

current medically aware circles.

Carolyn

--- Mcharlot wrote:

> , are you talking about saliva-readings or blood

> serum ?

> (Many of us have experienced low P-figures in b l o

> o d tests, that's why those tests are not reliable

> for P).

> Charlotte

> Re: weight and

> transdermals and other stuff

>

>

> Yeah well I have the P symptoms, but NOT the

> readings!! My P shows

> up as very low. Can't figure it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific

> Standard Time,

> > merryr@u... writes:

> >

> > Well what are we women to do who have such a

> hard time with the

> P???

> > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it

> doesn't make me

> > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even

> though I would

> feel fine)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored

> P.........I still had a

> P reading

> > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for

> 6months:)) .......oh and how

> > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff,

> without the andro.

> pathway being

> > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I

> have a BIG P

> footprint on me,

> > LOL )) L

>

>

>

>

> click here for our webpage

> http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in

> nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well if it's for strictly protecting the uterus, then we should be

applying it vaginally. THis is all I have to do now. Ask my doctor

again for another form!

> > What problems were you having ? With the P?

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent in young women or

> strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno woman is using E,

it

> is second after cholesterol in the hormonal cascade? I am sure it

> converts to other things besides just the sex hormones. I know it

> helps the thyroid.

>

[Guest guest]

It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go

that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to

be okay using it vaginally?

> Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability, bloating, fatigue,

depression.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

>

> What problems were you having ? With the P?

[Guest guest]

Blood serum. I never had a saliva test. But don't forget, Charlotte,

Laurel had low saliva readings too! And she was saturated with the

stuff!

> >

> > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM Pacific Standard

Time,

> > merryr@u... writes:

> >

> > Well what are we women to do who have such a hard time with

the

> P???

> > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it doesn't make me

> > comfortable to be just using unopposed E (even though I would

> feel fine)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored P.........I still

had a

> P reading

> > on my last blood test, and haven't used any for

> 6months:)) .......oh and how

> > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff, without the

andro.

> pathway being

> > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I have a BIG P

> footprint on me,

> > LOL )) L

>

>

>

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

intended as medical advice.**

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message is

finally getting through!! We do not need to have blood

levels of P that are indicative of what the female

body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and that

includes the depressive sedative efffects on the brain

to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE TISSUE

ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are

advising - that is, those that do not have any

financial interests in compounding pharmacies! (And we

all know the heinous side effects we got with oral

P!!)

There are several products for vaginal administration

of P:

1) custom compounded P in waxy-like bullet shaped

suppositories that need to be refrigerated and hand

inserted (the type used years ago to help a woman

sustain her pregnancy from aborting)

2) Prometrium capsules that some use vaginally

3) Prochieve 4% (45 mg) also known as the old Crinone

4% (new name Prochieve 4%), which has been around for

a while. This product has been spefically manufactured

for the purpose of protecting the uterus from

hyperplasia (the 4%) while the 8% product is used to

sustain a pregnancy.

P.S. NOTE: This product is BEST, as it is actually

manufactured for this purpose AND to adhere to the

vaginal wall, so there is no slippage and minimal

leakage AND is manufactured in a sustained release

form so that one does not get the high and fast peaks

as you do with the other forms AND each application

comes packaged in its own applicator which is designed

to insert as high as possible so that all the P gets

to the target tissues of the endometrium, not popping

out!

PROTOCOL: The 4% can be used two ways....

If you want to maintain a monthly menstrual sloughing

off, you insert one at night each of only 10 days at

the end of your monthly " cycle " .

Otherwise, if you want to effect amenorrhea (no

period), the it is taken every other day,

continuously, throughout the month. Your doctor should

be very familiar with the Crinone name.

I will here retype a short excerpt that explaining the

most imporant efficacy of vaginal P, which is:

1.Protects the uterus

2.Does not go systemic nearly as much as the cream

(even tho any compounding pharmacist, trying to

protect his business income, will vehemently protest

to the opposite!! ))))

To quote below from just three of many excerpts:

1. " Progesterone suppositories protect the uterus, but

minimize the ststemic side effects of

progesterone...AS THERE IS LESS SYSTEMIC ABSORPTION.. "

- " Hormones and the Mind " , Klaiber MD

2. " The transvaginal route has advantages, such

as...avoidance of first-pass hepatic metabolism...high

bioavailability...and local endometrial effect....This

study demonstrated that vaginally administered

progesterone could reach (target tissue levels only)

that are similar to those obtained in ovulatory and

luteal phases. "

- Gynecologic and Obstetric Investigation

Vol. 58, No.2, 2004 Medline Abstract (ID 15192285)

3. " Prochieve (Crinone)...is a specially formulated

vaginal gel of natural progesterone...it is applied

into the vagina where it adheres to the vaginal walls

(avoiding the leakage of other suppositories and THUS

ASSURING PROPER DOSING)to be absorbed directly where

it is needed...Because it is applied through the

vagina and goes to the uterus, the progesterone is

absorbed right where you need it most...the 4% product

is the one used for HRT treatment> The 4% gel delivers

45mg of natural progesterone into your uterine system

IN A SUSTAINED RELEASE method. The major benefit is

that becasue it goes DIRECTLY TO THE TARGET ORGAN, THE

UTERUS, YOU DO NOT GET HIGH BLOOD LEVELS OF

PROGESTERONE (which causes a plethora of negative side

effects systemically).

" The vaginal gel form is...more bioavailable - that

is, it is able to be used more easily, and isn't

metabolized systemically. So you don't need as high a

dosage - again, cutting back on the side effects.

Studies have shown that the majority of woman did not

have the side effects normally associated with

progestins or the micronized progesterone creams or

orals. "

- www.inhousepharmacy.co.uk

Golly, gals...I sure hope this helps!! xoxoxCarolyn

--- wrote:

> Well if it's for strictly protecting the uterus,

> then we should be

> applying it vaginally. THis is all I have to do

> now. Ask my doctor

> again for another form!

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > > What problems were you having ? With the

> P?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I wonder why - if P is supposedly only prevalent

> in young women or

> > strictly for protecting the uterus if a post meno

> woman is using E,

> it

> > is second after cholesterol in the hormonal

> cascade? I am sure it

> > converts to other things besides just the sex

> hormones. I know it

> > helps the thyroid.

> >

>

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Val...sounds exactly like the list enunciated ad

nauseum by Dr. Vliet for P side effects. Carolyn

--- Valarie wrote:

> Weight gain, increased glucose, irritability,

> bloating, fatigue, depression.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

>

>

> What problems were you having ? With the P?

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Per saliva tests...the many clinical, peer-reviewed

studies (see Barry Wren MD, for several) clearly

exhibited that the saliva readings would be " all over

the place " (Vliet,MD), from great high to great lows,

and not in relation to, or reliably reflective of,

what was going on systemically at all! Carolyn

--- wrote:

> Blood serum. I never had a saliva test. But don't

> forget, Charlotte,

> Laurel had low saliva readings too! And she was

> saturated with the

> stuff!

>

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > In a message dated 9/12/2005 2:17:08 PM

> Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > merryr@u... writes:

> > >

> > > Well what are we women to do who have such a

> hard time with

> the

> > P???

> > > No doctor will just give us E and frankly, it

> doesn't make me

> > > comfortable to be just using unopposed E

> (even though I would

> > feel fine)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Some of us maybe using our FREE WP stored

> P.........I still

> had a

> > P reading

> > > on my last blood test, and haven't used any

> for

> > 6months:)) .......oh and how

> > > could I still get facial hair ect...P stuff,

> without the

> andro.

> > pathway being

> > > activated??? I am still headscratchin,think I

> have a BIG P

> > footprint on me,

> > > LOL )) L

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > click here for our webpage

> http://rhythmicliving.com/

> >

> > **The group conversation is informational in

> nature and is not

> intended as medical advice.**

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree on all this?

Thanks for all this info Carolyn.

> AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message is

> finally getting through!! We do not need to have blood

> levels of P that are indicative of what the female

> body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and that

> includes the depressive sedative efffects on the brain

> to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE TISSUE

> ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are

> advising - that is, those that do not have any

> financial interests in compounding pharmacies! (And we

> all know the heinous side effects we got with oral

> P!!)

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, yeah, !! Ob/gyns have had P suppositories in

their tool box for many many years now, and I owe my

first grandchild, now a thirteen year old blond

lovely, to this vaginal P method!! And, as I had gone

back and reread in Vliet...Crinone has been around for

quite some time, as well!! It makes such logical

sense, I could lay down and cry over the Buddha belly

I got on the WP P cream over the last two years!!

And, actually, I just hate to admit this...I WAS on

the compounded P suppositories BEFORE I went on

WP....and I was doing just wonderfully!!!

Such divine Mother Nature sense....aim for just the

target tissues of the uterus to protect it....and

minimize all the side effects that Mother Nature also

intended to keep up fat and slow so that we could

bring that baby safely into the world (rather than

attempting to windsurf a few weeks before giving

birth, eh?) SO WE LISTEN TO MOTHER NATURE AND HAVE

THE PROGESTERONE GO ONLY TO THE ENDOMETRIUM, AMEN!!

Love you guys, Carolyn

--- wrote:

> Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree

> on all this?

> Thanks for all this info Carolyn.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message

> is

> > finally getting through!! We do not need to have

> blood

> > levels of P that are indicative of what the female

> > body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and

> that

> > includes the depressive sedative efffects on the

> brain

> > to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE

> TISSUE

> > ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are

> > advising - that is, those that do not have any

> > financial interests in compounding pharmacies!

> (And we

> > all know the heinous side effects we got with oral

> > P!!)

> >

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

P.S. ....I think it would be easier to reach an

accord between the various religions of the world,

than to try to have doctors reach an accord on

ANYthing!! Having said that, I cannot imagine any

doctor not going with the Crinone which is tried and

true in clinical practice!! Geez...think about it.

Those are the guys that prescribed Pro-Vera to us and

to our daughters!! Dear God!! Carolyn

--- wrote:

> Yes I wanted to try Crinone. Why can't doctors agree

> on all this?

> Thanks for all this info Carolyn.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > AMEN AND EUREKA, !!!! Seems like the message

> is

> > finally getting through!! We do not need to have

> blood

> > levels of P that are indicative of what the female

> > body goes through for sustaining a pregnancy (and

> that

> > includes the depressive sedative efffects on the

> brain

> > to slow the mother down!!) TARGETED TO UTERINE

> TISSUE

> > ONLY is exactly what the wiser medical heads are

> > advising - that is, those that do not have any

> > financial interests in compounding pharmacies!

> (And we

> > all know the heinous side effects we got with oral

> > P!!)

> >

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

I'm on Day 9 of 100 mg Prometrium used vaginally. I have had no problems so

far.

Another thing, progesterone LOWERS HDL - not something we want. The less I

get systemically, the happier I am.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go

that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to

be okay using it vaginally?

[Guest guest]

Hey my HDL IS LOW ENOUGH!!! Oh boy I didn't know this. So why are

our doctors telling us to randomly take 100 mg of P a day!

> I'm on Day 9 of 100 mg Prometrium used vaginally. I have had no

problems so

> far.

>

> Another thing, progesterone LOWERS HDL - not something we want.

The less I

> get systemically, the happier I am.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

> It's baffling. Just baffling. Maybe we really don't need to go

> that high on P dosing. Maybe we need small amounts. You seem to

> be okay using it vaginally?