Re: No babies

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed.

With all respect. You should read what the author has written and

perhaps try to understand what they are saying before taking the

time to say the same thing again because you assume that you're

talking to a dunce.

was talking about chemical reactions, my intention was to

point out using sourdough flora as an example because I had no data

for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using enzymes as

catalysts act quite differently to the standard Arrhenius equation

type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear. Perhaps I should

take more time and explain things more but if the reader doesn't

take the time to read and understand then I'd just be wasting my

time. So perhaps not.

peace

Jim

>

> Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and

one not

> typically found in a kombucha ferment.

>...

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> .............................................

> Re: No babies

> ... I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will

> vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link.

>

> Jim

[Guest guest]

Jim, I did say Nice chart.

My apology for poorly stating my cause.

IF it related more directly to kombucha

- meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

such a graph that would be very very valuable.

That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes someone

would take up that challenge.

I did not mean to insult you because you are not up to that task.

It does appear to me that you and others have drawn conclusions

from your chart that low temperatures are OK to produce KT

I made this offer before on this list and I am still willing to do it again

IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low to produce

reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid, fructose).

Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha at that temp,

I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid) for someone else to

have theirs tested.

It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active (mostly dormant)

at this low temperature but I theorize that competing Lactobacillum

will be the major players and the production of gluconic acid

(which we want) will suffer.

This is strictly in the interest of zymurgy. I would be far happier

if I did not have to pay for any testing and if there were published

results or charts that may infer such findings. But my offer,

and opinions still stands.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...............................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:05 am (PST)

Hi Ed.

With all respect. You should read what the author has written and

perhaps try to understand what they are saying before taking the

time to say the same thing again because you assume that you're

talking to a dunce.

was talking about chemical reactions, my intention was to

point out using sourdough flora as an example because I had no data

for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using enzymes as

catalysts act quite differently to the standard Arrhenius equation

type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear. Perhaps I should

take more time and explain things more but if the reader doesn't

take the time to read and understand then I'd just be wasting my

time. So perhaps not.

peace

Jim

[Guest guest]

Jim, I did say Nice chart.

My apology for poorly stating my cause.

IF it related more directly to kombucha

- meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

such a graph that would be very very valuable.

That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes someone

would take up that challenge.

I did not mean to insult you because you are not up to that task.

It does appear to me that you and others have drawn conclusions

from your chart that low temperatures are OK to produce KT

I made this offer before on this list and I am still willing to do it again

IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low to produce

reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid, fructose).

Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha at that temp,

I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid) for someone else to

have theirs tested.

It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active (mostly dormant)

at this low temperature but I theorize that competing Lactobacillum

will be the major players and the production of gluconic acid

(which we want) will suffer.

This is strictly in the interest of zymurgy. I would be far happier

if I did not have to pay for any testing and if there were published

results or charts that may infer such findings. But my offer,

and opinions still stands.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

...............................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:05 am (PST)

Hi Ed.

With all respect. You should read what the author has written and

perhaps try to understand what they are saying before taking the

time to say the same thing again because you assume that you're

talking to a dunce.

was talking about chemical reactions, my intention was to

point out using sourdough flora as an example because I had no data

for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using enzymes as

catalysts act quite differently to the standard Arrhenius equation

type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear. Perhaps I should

take more time and explain things more but if the reader doesn't

take the time to read and understand then I'd just be wasting my

time. So perhaps not.

peace

Jim

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed and Everyone,

This summer has been hot and dry. We do not by any

stretch of the imagination cool our house more than we

must. It is not good for our health or our

pocketbook. My scoby production was explosive. As we

go into the colder months we certainly will not heat

our house any more than we have to mostly for

pocketbook reasons. I think I've had enough

experience to know that my KT is good for me no matter

what the temperature it is brewed at. I tell people

and trust that my KT has way more gluconic acid than

some of the commercial brews. I suppose I am

guessing. In the dead of winter I would certainly be

willing to have my KT tested if that would help you

with your knowledge base. I suppose about February

would be a good time. I never put extra heat on my

brewing KT and I never will. Unless of course it gets

so cold that it turns to ice )

Thanks for your faithful advise and council.

To Your Health,

ann

--- Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

> Jim, I did say Nice chart.

> My apology for poorly stating my cause.

> IF it related more directly to kombucha

> - meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

> and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

> such a graph that would be very very valuable.

> That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes

> someone

> would take up that challenge.

> I did not mean to insult you because you are not up

> to that task.

>

> It does appear to me that you and others have drawn

> conclusions

> from your chart that low temperatures are OK to

> produce KT

>

> I made this offer before on this list and I am still

> willing to do it again

> IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low

> to produce

> reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid,

> fructose).

> Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha

> at that temp,

> I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid)

> for someone else to

> have theirs tested.

> It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active

> (mostly dormant)

> at this low temperature but I theorize that

> competing Lactobacillum

> will be the major players and the production of

> gluconic acid

> (which we want) will suffer.

>

> This is strictly in the interest of zymurgy. I would

> be far happier

> if I did not have to pay for any testing and if

> there were published

> results or charts that may infer such findings. But

> my offer,

> and opinions still stands.

>

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

> ..............................

> Re: No babies

> Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@...

> fermenting_everything_in_site

> Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:05 am (PST)

> Hi Ed.

> With all respect. You should read what the author

> has written and

> perhaps try to understand what they are saying

> before taking the

> time to say the same thing again because you assume

> that you're

> talking to a dunce.

>

> was talking about chemical reactions, my

> intention was to

> point out using sourdough flora as an example

> because I had no data

> for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using

> enzymes as

> catalysts act quite differently to the standard

> Arrhenius equation

> type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear.

> Perhaps I should

> take more time and explain things more but if the

> reader doesn't

> take the time to read and understand then I'd just

> be wasting my

> time. So perhaps not.

>

> peace

>

> Jim

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed and Everyone,

This summer has been hot and dry. We do not by any

stretch of the imagination cool our house more than we

must. It is not good for our health or our

pocketbook. My scoby production was explosive. As we

go into the colder months we certainly will not heat

our house any more than we have to mostly for

pocketbook reasons. I think I've had enough

experience to know that my KT is good for me no matter

what the temperature it is brewed at. I tell people

and trust that my KT has way more gluconic acid than

some of the commercial brews. I suppose I am

guessing. In the dead of winter I would certainly be

willing to have my KT tested if that would help you

with your knowledge base. I suppose about February

would be a good time. I never put extra heat on my

brewing KT and I never will. Unless of course it gets

so cold that it turns to ice )

Thanks for your faithful advise and council.

To Your Health,

ann

--- Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

> Jim, I did say Nice chart.

> My apology for poorly stating my cause.

> IF it related more directly to kombucha

> - meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

> and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

> such a graph that would be very very valuable.

> That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes

> someone

> would take up that challenge.

> I did not mean to insult you because you are not up

> to that task.

>

> It does appear to me that you and others have drawn

> conclusions

> from your chart that low temperatures are OK to

> produce KT

>

> I made this offer before on this list and I am still

> willing to do it again

> IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low

> to produce

> reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid,

> fructose).

> Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha

> at that temp,

> I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid)

> for someone else to

> have theirs tested.

> It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active

> (mostly dormant)

> at this low temperature but I theorize that

> competing Lactobacillum

> will be the major players and the production of

> gluconic acid

> (which we want) will suffer.

>

> This is strictly in the interest of zymurgy. I would

> be far happier

> if I did not have to pay for any testing and if

> there were published

> results or charts that may infer such findings. But

> my offer,

> and opinions still stands.

>

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

> ..............................

> Re: No babies

> Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@...

> fermenting_everything_in_site

> Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:05 am (PST)

> Hi Ed.

> With all respect. You should read what the author

> has written and

> perhaps try to understand what they are saying

> before taking the

> time to say the same thing again because you assume

> that you're

> talking to a dunce.

>

> was talking about chemical reactions, my

> intention was to

> point out using sourdough flora as an example

> because I had no data

> for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using

> enzymes as

> catalysts act quite differently to the standard

> Arrhenius equation

> type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear.

> Perhaps I should

> take more time and explain things more but if the

> reader doesn't

> take the time to read and understand then I'd just

> be wasting my

> time. So perhaps not.

>

> peace

>

> Jim

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

http://www./r/hs

[Guest guest]

>

> Jim, I did say Nice chart.

> My apology for poorly stating my cause.

Hi Ed apology accepted, no problem.

> IF it related more directly to kombucha

> - meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

> and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

> such a graph that would be very very valuable.

> That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes someone

> would take up that challenge.

> I did not mean to insult you because you are not up to that task.

I can assure you Ed that I am up to plotting a chart, all I need is

the data, I don't have the equipment nor the inclination however to

get the data for myself. If someone can tell the the value of x-n

then I'm sure the same equation will be a good enough, rough match.

>

> It does appear to me that you and others have drawn conclusions

> from your chart that low temperatures are OK to produce KT

I made no such conclusions in my statement Ed. I politely agreed

with another poster that around the 24 marks was okay. Mine is

brewed closer to 27. As for 'OK' I think if you're going to tell

people that 'low temperatures' are not OK then you'll have to come

up with more of an argument for explaining why so. I drink Kombucha

because I enjoy the taste. I really don't care if it does me good or

to what extent.

>

> I made this offer before on this list and I am still willing to do

it again

> IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low to produce

> reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid, fructose).

> Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha at that temp,

> I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid) for someone

else to

> have theirs tested.

> It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active (mostly

dormant)

I can assure you that Acetobacter aceti, if that's what you are

talking about, do just fine at 20°C, I made some pretty fine vinegar

last winter and spring at 16-19°C to verify that.

> at this low temperature but I theorize that competing

Lactobacillum

> will be the major players and the production of gluconic acid

> (which we want) will suffer.

With all respect Ed, you mean 'hypothesise'. If you have no data

then you have no theory.

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from kombucha

but personally when money is involved I tend not to pay too much

attention to what's being said as it tends to come across as ill

informed ad copy.

I wish you well.

Jim

[Guest guest]

>

> Jim, I did say Nice chart.

> My apology for poorly stating my cause.

Hi Ed apology accepted, no problem.

> IF it related more directly to kombucha

> - meaning the specific yeasts and bacteria synergy,

> and if you (or someone) had the expertise to chart

> such a graph that would be very very valuable.

> That is what I was putting out there, in the hopes someone

> would take up that challenge.

> I did not mean to insult you because you are not up to that task.

I can assure you Ed that I am up to plotting a chart, all I need is

the data, I don't have the equipment nor the inclination however to

get the data for myself. If someone can tell the the value of x-n

then I'm sure the same equation will be a good enough, rough match.

>

> It does appear to me that you and others have drawn conclusions

> from your chart that low temperatures are OK to produce KT

I made no such conclusions in my statement Ed. I politely agreed

with another poster that around the 24 marks was okay. Mine is

brewed closer to 27. As for 'OK' I think if you're going to tell

people that 'low temperatures' are not OK then you'll have to come

up with more of an argument for explaining why so. I drink Kombucha

because I enjoy the taste. I really don't care if it does me good or

to what extent.

>

> I made this offer before on this list and I am still willing to do

it again

> IMHO, 20 C (68F) [constant temperature] is too low to produce

> reliable kombucha tea (acetic acid, gluconic acid, fructose).

> Since I can not produce consistent reliable kombucha at that temp,

> I am willing to pay for a lab test (gluconic acid) for someone

else to

> have theirs tested.

> It may be that the acetic bacterium are still active (mostly

dormant)

I can assure you that Acetobacter aceti, if that's what you are

talking about, do just fine at 20°C, I made some pretty fine vinegar

last winter and spring at 16-19°C to verify that.

> at this low temperature but I theorize that competing

Lactobacillum

> will be the major players and the production of gluconic acid

> (which we want) will suffer.

With all respect Ed, you mean 'hypothesise'. If you have no data

then you have no theory.

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from kombucha

but personally when money is involved I tend not to pay too much

attention to what's being said as it tends to come across as ill

informed ad copy.

I wish you well.

Jim

[Guest guest]

ann, sounds good. I am simply looking for a reliable low temperature

kombucha that has been made during the winter months.

Typical for a household with not a lot of disposable income.

Test to be at the end of winter just before the weather warms

This would reflect several generations of " Cold Brewing "

The temperature should be consistent 20 C (68F) or lower not higher.

Temperatures could be monitored by the aquarium stick on thermometer.

I would mark the typical kombucha to be 1% gluconic acid.

Not scientific and no conclusions could be drawn but IMO, good to know.

I would like to have 2-3 cold brews tested from

reliable long time kombucha brewers.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " maryann peterson " chpeter30096@... chpeter30096

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:13 am (PST)

Hi Ed and Everyone,

This summer has been hot and dry. We do not by any

stretch of the imagination cool our house more than we

must. It is not good for our health or our

pocketbook. My scoby production was explosive. As we

go into the colder months we certainly will not heat

our house any more than we have to mostly for

pocketbook reasons. I think I've had enough

experience to know that my KT is good for me no matter

what the temperature it is brewed at. I tell people

and trust that my KT has way more gluconic acid than

some of the commercial brews. I suppose I am

guessing. In the dead of winter I would certainly be

willing to have my KT tested if that would help you

with your knowledge base. I suppose about February

would be a good time. I never put extra heat on my

brewing KT and I never will. Unless of course it gets

so cold that it turns to ice )

Thanks for your faithful advise and council.

To Your Health,

ann

[Guest guest]

ann, sounds good. I am simply looking for a reliable low temperature

kombucha that has been made during the winter months.

Typical for a household with not a lot of disposable income.

Test to be at the end of winter just before the weather warms

This would reflect several generations of " Cold Brewing "

The temperature should be consistent 20 C (68F) or lower not higher.

Temperatures could be monitored by the aquarium stick on thermometer.

I would mark the typical kombucha to be 1% gluconic acid.

Not scientific and no conclusions could be drawn but IMO, good to know.

I would like to have 2-3 cold brews tested from

reliable long time kombucha brewers.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " maryann peterson " chpeter30096@... chpeter30096

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:13 am (PST)

Hi Ed and Everyone,

This summer has been hot and dry. We do not by any

stretch of the imagination cool our house more than we

must. It is not good for our health or our

pocketbook. My scoby production was explosive. As we

go into the colder months we certainly will not heat

our house any more than we have to mostly for

pocketbook reasons. I think I've had enough

experience to know that my KT is good for me no matter

what the temperature it is brewed at. I tell people

and trust that my KT has way more gluconic acid than

some of the commercial brews. I suppose I am

guessing. In the dead of winter I would certainly be

willing to have my KT tested if that would help you

with your knowledge base. I suppose about February

would be a good time. I never put extra heat on my

brewing KT and I never will. Unless of course it gets

so cold that it turns to ice )

Thanks for your faithful advise and council.

To Your Health,

ann

[Guest guest]

Jim, what “profit”

I believe we all profit from honest intellectual discourse.

Making kombucha is an art. Some of this, some of that, ferment for

awhile, Drink when WE are ready. But even if we don’t - bacteria

and yeast do follow rules.: zymurgy of kombucha

You wrote

“I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from

kombucha but personally when money is involved I tend not to

pay too much attention to what's being said as it tends to come

across as ill informed ad copy”.

You also wrote you made some pretty fine vinegar at 16 C That’s

quite a feat! Industry standard is 30 C. Every home vinegar recipe

I’ve seen quotes a lot higher temperature range than that. May

have something to do with acetic acid crystallizing at about 15° C.

(59° F.) (According to U. S. P.)

If you are doing well at these low thresholds than more power to

you. But it is you that has no data to support your “hypothesis”.

My data/My theory: Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

Below is some recent research on Kombucha and if you read

through you’ll see a pretty standard brewing method and

their results. That is where I draw my theory from.

The last one on the list is a study of temperatures at 22°C,

30°C and 35°C, The samples were taken after 0,

3, 7, 10, 14, 17 and 21 days (Time and Temperature all there)

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

Data References

1) Rousin www.kombucha-research.com

If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should

Read This Book! Why? Because, It Separates the Facts

>From the Hype! The E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different

chemical analysis of Kombucha samples from all over

North America and even some from Europe

2) Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial

activity of the fermented tea Kombucha

C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

Department of Food Science Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853

3) Dr. Sklenar's Kombucha mushroom infusion--a biological

cancer therapy. Documentation No. 18]

Hauser SP

Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax

Feb 1990 (Vol. 79, Issue 9, Pages 243-6)

4) Kombucha, the fermented tea: microbiology, composition,

and claimed health effects.

Greenwalt CJ, Steinkraus KH, Ledford RA

J Food Prot Jul 2000 (Vol. 63, Issue 7, Pages 976-81)

5). Yeast ecology of Kombucha fermentation.

Teoh AL, Heard G,  J

Int J Food Microbiol

Sep 2004 (Vol. 95, Issue 2, Pages 119-26)

6). Kombucha fermentation and its antimicrobial activity.

Sreeramulu G, Zhu Y, Knol W J Agric Food Chem

Jun 2000 (Vol. 48, Issue 6, Pages 2589-94)

7). Effects of chronic kombucha ingestion on open-field

behaviors, longevity, appetitive behaviors, and organs

in c57-bl/6 mice: a pilot study.

Hartmann AM, Burleson LE, Holmes AK, Geist CR

Nutrition Sep 2000 (Vol. 16, Issue 9, Pages 755-61)

8) Probable gastrointestinal toxicity of Kombucha tea: is

this beverage healthy or harmful?

Srinivasan R, Smolinske S, Greenbaum D

J Gen Intern Med Oct 1997 (Vol. 12, Issue 10, Pages 643-4)

9). Kombucha: a dubious " cure " .

Majchrowicz M

GMHC Treat Issues May 1995 (Vol. 9, Issue 5, Page 10)

10). [The Kombucha mushroom: two different opinions]

Gamundi R, Valdivia M Sidahora

11). The yeast spectrum of the 'tea fungus Kombucha'.

Mayser P, Fromme S, Leitzmann C, Gründer K

Mycoses (Vol. 38, Issue 7-8, Pages 289-95)

12). Lead induced oxidative stress: beneficial effects of

Kombucha tea.

Dipti P, Yogesh B, Kain AK, ine T, Anju B, Sairam 

M, Singh B, Mongia SS, Kumar GI, Selvamurthy W

Biomed Environ Sci

Sep 2003 (Vol. 16, Issue 3, Pages 276-82)

16. Kombucha tea]

Laier B Ugeskr Laeger

May 2000 (Vol. 162, Issue 19, Page 2767)

13). Subacute (90 days) oral toxicity studies of

Kombucha tea.

Vijayaraghavan R, Singh M, Rao PV, Bhattacharya R, Kumar P,

Sugendran K, Kumar O, Pant SC, Singh R

Biomed Environ Sci

Dec 2000 (Vol. 13, Issue 4, Pages 293-9)

14). Studies on toxicity, anti-stress and hepato-protective

properties of Kombucha tea.

ine T, Dipti P, Anju B, Kavimani S, Sharma SK, Kain AK,

Sarada SK, Sairam M, Ilavazhagan G, Devendra K,

Selvamurthy W

Biomed Environ Sci

Sep 2001 (Vol. 14, Issue 3, Pages 207-13)

15). Manufacture of a beverage from cheese whey using

a " tea fungus " fermentation.

Belloso-Morales G, Hernández-Sánchez H

Rev Latinoam Microbiol

(Vol. 45, Issue 1-2, Pages 5-11)

16). Effect of Kombucha tea on chromate(VI)-induced

oxidative stress in albino rats.

Sai Ram M, Anju B, ine T, Dipti P, Kain AK, Mongia SS,

Sharma SK, Singh B, Singh R, Ilavazhagan G, Kumar D,

Selvamurthy W

J Ethnopharmacol

Jul 2000 (Vol. 71, Issue 1-2, Pages 235-40)

17). Nitrogen-fixing and cellulose-producing Gluconacetobacter

kombuchae sp. nov., isolated from

Kombucha tea.

Dutta D, Gachhui R

Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

Feb 2007 (Vol. 57, Issue Pt 2, Pages 353-7)

18). Acetobacter intermedius, sp. nov.

Boesch C, Trcek J, Sievers M, Teuber M

Syst Appl Microbiol

Mar 1998 (Vol. 21, Issue 2, Pages 220-9)

19). Kombucha " mushroom " hepatotoxicity.

Perron AD,  JA, Yanofsky NN

Ann Emerg Med

Nov 1995 (Vol. 26, Issue 5, Pages 660-1)

20). Kombucha.

Ishida Y

Med J Aust

May 1999 (Vol. 170, Issue 9, Page 454)

21). Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis, a new

ascosporogenous yeast from Kombucha tea'.

Kurtzman CP, Robnett CJ, Basehoar-Powers E

FEMS Yeast Res

Jul 2001 (Vol. 1, Issue 2, Pages 133-8)

22). Changes in major components of tea fungus

metabolites during prolonged fermentation.

Chen C, Liu BY

J Appl Microbiol

Nov 2000 (Vol. 89, Issue 5, Pages 834-9)

23). Novel nitrogen-fixing Acetobacter nitrogenifigens

sp. nov., isolated from Kombucha tea.

Dutta D, Gachhui R

Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

Aug 2006 (Vol. 56, Issue Pt 8, Pages 1899-903)

24) www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/kombucha.html

Dr. Steinkraus, a Cornell University microbiologist,

studied the activity of Kombucha against several bacteria:

H. pylori (the one thatcauses ulcers), E. ...

25) Fermentations in World Food Processing (PDF)

Cornell University. Ithaca, NY l4853. Introduction

(Steinkraus 1995, 1996a,

1997) ... tea fungus/Kombucha beverage. Acta Biotch.

16:199-205. Steinkraus KH. ...

26) Microbiology and fermentation balance in a kombucha

beverage obtained from a tea fungus fermentation

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

SIEVERS M. ; LANINI C. ; WEBER A. ; SCHULER-SCHMID U. ;

TEUBER M. ;

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

ETH-Zürich, Inst. Lebensmittelwiss., Lab.

Lebensmittelmikrobiologie, 8092 Zürich, SUISSE

27)Scale-up of Black Tea Batch Fermentation by Kombucha

Author(s): R. Malbaša 1 *, | E. Lon?ar 2, | M. Djuri? 3, |

M. Klašnja 4, | LJ. Kolarov 5, | S. Markov 6

doi: 10.1205/fbp.05061

28) Influence of Working Conditions Upon Kombucha Conducted

Fermentation of Black Tea

Author(s): E. Lon?ar 1, | M. Djuri? 2 *, | R. Malbaša 3, |

LJ. Kolarov 4, | M. Klašnja 5

doi: 10.1205/fbp.04306

[Guest guest]

Jim, what “profit”

I believe we all profit from honest intellectual discourse.

Making kombucha is an art. Some of this, some of that, ferment for

awhile, Drink when WE are ready. But even if we don’t - bacteria

and yeast do follow rules.: zymurgy of kombucha

You wrote

“I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from

kombucha but personally when money is involved I tend not to

pay too much attention to what's being said as it tends to come

across as ill informed ad copy”.

You also wrote you made some pretty fine vinegar at 16 C That’s

quite a feat! Industry standard is 30 C. Every home vinegar recipe

I’ve seen quotes a lot higher temperature range than that. May

have something to do with acetic acid crystallizing at about 15° C.

(59° F.) (According to U. S. P.)

If you are doing well at these low thresholds than more power to

you. But it is you that has no data to support your “hypothesis”.

My data/My theory: Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

Below is some recent research on Kombucha and if you read

through you’ll see a pretty standard brewing method and

their results. That is where I draw my theory from.

The last one on the list is a study of temperatures at 22°C,

30°C and 35°C, The samples were taken after 0,

3, 7, 10, 14, 17 and 21 days (Time and Temperature all there)

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

Data References

1) Rousin www.kombucha-research.com

If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should

Read This Book! Why? Because, It Separates the Facts

>From the Hype! The E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different

chemical analysis of Kombucha samples from all over

North America and even some from Europe

2) Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial

activity of the fermented tea Kombucha

C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

Department of Food Science Cornell University

Ithaca, New York 14853

3) Dr. Sklenar's Kombucha mushroom infusion--a biological

cancer therapy. Documentation No. 18]

Hauser SP

Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax

Feb 1990 (Vol. 79, Issue 9, Pages 243-6)

4) Kombucha, the fermented tea: microbiology, composition,

and claimed health effects.

Greenwalt CJ, Steinkraus KH, Ledford RA

J Food Prot Jul 2000 (Vol. 63, Issue 7, Pages 976-81)

5). Yeast ecology of Kombucha fermentation.

Teoh AL, Heard G,  J

Int J Food Microbiol

Sep 2004 (Vol. 95, Issue 2, Pages 119-26)

6). Kombucha fermentation and its antimicrobial activity.

Sreeramulu G, Zhu Y, Knol W J Agric Food Chem

Jun 2000 (Vol. 48, Issue 6, Pages 2589-94)

7). Effects of chronic kombucha ingestion on open-field

behaviors, longevity, appetitive behaviors, and organs

in c57-bl/6 mice: a pilot study.

Hartmann AM, Burleson LE, Holmes AK, Geist CR

Nutrition Sep 2000 (Vol. 16, Issue 9, Pages 755-61)

8) Probable gastrointestinal toxicity of Kombucha tea: is

this beverage healthy or harmful?

Srinivasan R, Smolinske S, Greenbaum D

J Gen Intern Med Oct 1997 (Vol. 12, Issue 10, Pages 643-4)

9). Kombucha: a dubious " cure " .

Majchrowicz M

GMHC Treat Issues May 1995 (Vol. 9, Issue 5, Page 10)

10). [The Kombucha mushroom: two different opinions]

Gamundi R, Valdivia M Sidahora

11). The yeast spectrum of the 'tea fungus Kombucha'.

Mayser P, Fromme S, Leitzmann C, Gründer K

Mycoses (Vol. 38, Issue 7-8, Pages 289-95)

12). Lead induced oxidative stress: beneficial effects of

Kombucha tea.

Dipti P, Yogesh B, Kain AK, ine T, Anju B, Sairam 

M, Singh B, Mongia SS, Kumar GI, Selvamurthy W

Biomed Environ Sci

Sep 2003 (Vol. 16, Issue 3, Pages 276-82)

16. Kombucha tea]

Laier B Ugeskr Laeger

May 2000 (Vol. 162, Issue 19, Page 2767)

13). Subacute (90 days) oral toxicity studies of

Kombucha tea.

Vijayaraghavan R, Singh M, Rao PV, Bhattacharya R, Kumar P,

Sugendran K, Kumar O, Pant SC, Singh R

Biomed Environ Sci

Dec 2000 (Vol. 13, Issue 4, Pages 293-9)

14). Studies on toxicity, anti-stress and hepato-protective

properties of Kombucha tea.

ine T, Dipti P, Anju B, Kavimani S, Sharma SK, Kain AK,

Sarada SK, Sairam M, Ilavazhagan G, Devendra K,

Selvamurthy W

Biomed Environ Sci

Sep 2001 (Vol. 14, Issue 3, Pages 207-13)

15). Manufacture of a beverage from cheese whey using

a " tea fungus " fermentation.

Belloso-Morales G, Hernández-Sánchez H

Rev Latinoam Microbiol

(Vol. 45, Issue 1-2, Pages 5-11)

16). Effect of Kombucha tea on chromate(VI)-induced

oxidative stress in albino rats.

Sai Ram M, Anju B, ine T, Dipti P, Kain AK, Mongia SS,

Sharma SK, Singh B, Singh R, Ilavazhagan G, Kumar D,

Selvamurthy W

J Ethnopharmacol

Jul 2000 (Vol. 71, Issue 1-2, Pages 235-40)

17). Nitrogen-fixing and cellulose-producing Gluconacetobacter

kombuchae sp. nov., isolated from

Kombucha tea.

Dutta D, Gachhui R

Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

Feb 2007 (Vol. 57, Issue Pt 2, Pages 353-7)

18). Acetobacter intermedius, sp. nov.

Boesch C, Trcek J, Sievers M, Teuber M

Syst Appl Microbiol

Mar 1998 (Vol. 21, Issue 2, Pages 220-9)

19). Kombucha " mushroom " hepatotoxicity.

Perron AD,  JA, Yanofsky NN

Ann Emerg Med

Nov 1995 (Vol. 26, Issue 5, Pages 660-1)

20). Kombucha.

Ishida Y

Med J Aust

May 1999 (Vol. 170, Issue 9, Page 454)

21). Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis, a new

ascosporogenous yeast from Kombucha tea'.

Kurtzman CP, Robnett CJ, Basehoar-Powers E

FEMS Yeast Res

Jul 2001 (Vol. 1, Issue 2, Pages 133-8)

22). Changes in major components of tea fungus

metabolites during prolonged fermentation.

Chen C, Liu BY

J Appl Microbiol

Nov 2000 (Vol. 89, Issue 5, Pages 834-9)

23). Novel nitrogen-fixing Acetobacter nitrogenifigens

sp. nov., isolated from Kombucha tea.

Dutta D, Gachhui R

Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

Aug 2006 (Vol. 56, Issue Pt 8, Pages 1899-903)

24) www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/kombucha.html

Dr. Steinkraus, a Cornell University microbiologist,

studied the activity of Kombucha against several bacteria:

H. pylori (the one thatcauses ulcers), E. ...

25) Fermentations in World Food Processing (PDF)

Cornell University. Ithaca, NY l4853. Introduction

(Steinkraus 1995, 1996a,

1997) ... tea fungus/Kombucha beverage. Acta Biotch.

16:199-205. Steinkraus KH. ...

26) Microbiology and fermentation balance in a kombucha

beverage obtained from a tea fungus fermentation

Auteur(s) / Author(s)

SIEVERS M. ; LANINI C. ; WEBER A. ; SCHULER-SCHMID U. ;

TEUBER M. ;

Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

ETH-Zürich, Inst. Lebensmittelwiss., Lab.

Lebensmittelmikrobiologie, 8092 Zürich, SUISSE

27)Scale-up of Black Tea Batch Fermentation by Kombucha

Author(s): R. Malbaša 1 *, | E. Lon?ar 2, | M. Djuri? 3, |

M. Klašnja 4, | LJ. Kolarov 5, | S. Markov 6

doi: 10.1205/fbp.05061

28) Influence of Working Conditions Upon Kombucha Conducted

Fermentation of Black Tea

Author(s): E. Lon?ar 1, | M. Djuri? 2 *, | R. Malbaša 3, |

LJ. Kolarov 4, | M. Klašnja 5

doi: 10.1205/fbp.04306

[Guest guest]

I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no way at 30.

I don't keep my house that warm.

Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of honey

vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

Cheers

Caitilin

On Nov 24, 2007 6:47 AM, Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

> Jim, what " profit "

> I believe we all profit from honest intellectual discourse.

>

> Making kombucha is an art. Some of this, some of that, ferment for

> awhile, Drink when WE are ready. But even if we don't - bacteria

> and yeast do follow rules.: zymurgy of kombucha

>

> You wrote

> " I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

> else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

> that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from

> kombucha but personally when money is involved I tend not to

> pay too much attention to what's being said as it tends to come

> across as ill informed ad copy " .

>

> You also wrote you made some pretty fine vinegar at 16 C That's

> quite a feat! Industry standard is 30 C. Every home vinegar recipe

> I've seen quotes a lot higher temperature range than that. May

> have something to do with acetic acid crystallizing at about 15° C.

> (59° F.) (According to U. S. P.)

>

> If you are doing well at these low thresholds than more power to

> you. But it is you that has no data to support your " hypothesis " .

> My data/My theory: Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

>

> Below is some recent research on Kombucha and if you read

> through you'll see a pretty standard brewing method and

> their results. That is where I draw my theory from.

>

> The last one on the list is a study of temperatures at 22°C,

> 30°C and 35°C, The samples were taken after 0,

> 3, 7, 10, 14, 17 and 21 days (Time and Temperature all there)

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

>

> Data References

>

> 1) Rousin www.kombucha-research.com

> If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should

> Read This Book! Why? Because, It Separates the Facts

> >From the Hype! The E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

> provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different

> chemical analysis of Kombucha samples from all over

> North America and even some from Europe

>

> 2) Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial

> activity of the fermented tea Kombucha

> C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

> Department of Food Science Cornell University

> Ithaca, New York 14853

>

> 3) Dr. Sklenar's Kombucha mushroom infusion--a biological

> cancer therapy. Documentation No. 18]

> Hauser SP

> Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax

> Feb 1990 (Vol. 79, Issue 9, Pages 243-6)

>

> 4) Kombucha, the fermented tea: microbiology, composition,

> and claimed health effects.

> Greenwalt CJ, Steinkraus KH, Ledford RA

> J Food Prot Jul 2000 (Vol. 63, Issue 7, Pages 976-81)

>

> 5). Yeast ecology of Kombucha fermentation.

> Teoh AL, Heard G, J

> Int J Food Microbiol

> Sep 2004 (Vol. 95, Issue 2, Pages 119-26)

>

> 6). Kombucha fermentation and its antimicrobial activity.

> Sreeramulu G, Zhu Y, Knol W J Agric Food Chem

> Jun 2000 (Vol. 48, Issue 6, Pages 2589-94)

>

> 7). Effects of chronic kombucha ingestion on open-field

> behaviors, longevity, appetitive behaviors, and organs

> in c57-bl/6 mice: a pilot study.

> Hartmann AM, Burleson LE, Holmes AK, Geist CR

> Nutrition Sep 2000 (Vol. 16, Issue 9, Pages 755-61)

>

> 8) Probable gastrointestinal toxicity of Kombucha tea: is

> this beverage healthy or harmful?

> Srinivasan R, Smolinske S, Greenbaum D

> J Gen Intern Med Oct 1997 (Vol. 12, Issue 10, Pages 643-4)

>

> 9). Kombucha: a dubious " cure " .

> Majchrowicz M

> GMHC Treat Issues May 1995 (Vol. 9, Issue 5, Page 10)

>

> 10). [The Kombucha mushroom: two different opinions]

> Gamundi R, Valdivia M Sidahora

>

> 11). The yeast spectrum of the 'tea fungus Kombucha'.

> Mayser P, Fromme S, Leitzmann C, Gründer K

> Mycoses (Vol. 38, Issue 7-8, Pages 289-95)

>

> 12). Lead induced oxidative stress: beneficial effects of

> Kombucha tea.

> Dipti P, Yogesh B, Kain AK, ine T, Anju B, Sairam

> M, Singh B, Mongia SS, Kumar GI, Selvamurthy W

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Sep 2003 (Vol. 16, Issue 3, Pages 276-82)

> 16. Kombucha tea]

> Laier B Ugeskr Laeger

> May 2000 (Vol. 162, Issue 19, Page 2767)

>

> 13). Subacute (90 days) oral toxicity studies of

> Kombucha tea.

> Vijayaraghavan R, Singh M, Rao PV, Bhattacharya R, Kumar P,

> Sugendran K, Kumar O, Pant SC, Singh R

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Dec 2000 (Vol. 13, Issue 4, Pages 293-9)

>

> 14). Studies on toxicity, anti-stress and hepato-protective

> properties of Kombucha tea.

> ine T, Dipti P, Anju B, Kavimani S, Sharma SK, Kain AK,

> Sarada SK, Sairam M, Ilavazhagan G, Devendra K,

> Selvamurthy W

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Sep 2001 (Vol. 14, Issue 3, Pages 207-13)

>

> 15). Manufacture of a beverage from cheese whey using

> a " tea fungus " fermentation.

> Belloso-Morales G, Hernández-Sánchez H

> Rev Latinoam Microbiol

> (Vol. 45, Issue 1-2, Pages 5-11)

>

> 16). Effect of Kombucha tea on chromate(VI)-induced

> oxidative stress in albino rats.

> Sai Ram M, Anju B, ine T, Dipti P, Kain AK, Mongia SS,

> Sharma SK, Singh B, Singh R, Ilavazhagan G, Kumar D,

> Selvamurthy W

> J Ethnopharmacol

> Jul 2000 (Vol. 71, Issue 1-2, Pages 235-40)

>

> 17). Nitrogen-fixing and cellulose-producing Gluconacetobacter

> kombuchae sp. nov., isolated from

> Kombucha tea.

> Dutta D, Gachhui R

> Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

> Feb 2007 (Vol. 57, Issue Pt 2, Pages 353-7)

>

> 18). Acetobacter intermedius, sp. nov.

> Boesch C, Trcek J, Sievers M, Teuber M

> Syst Appl Microbiol

> Mar 1998 (Vol. 21, Issue 2, Pages 220-9)

>

> 19). Kombucha " mushroom " hepatotoxicity.

> Perron AD, JA, Yanofsky NN

> Ann Emerg Med

> Nov 1995 (Vol. 26, Issue 5, Pages 660-1)

>

> 20). Kombucha.

> Ishida Y

> Med J Aust

> May 1999 (Vol. 170, Issue 9, Page 454)

>

> 21). Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis, a new

> ascosporogenous yeast from Kombucha tea'.

> Kurtzman CP, Robnett CJ, Basehoar-Powers E

> FEMS Yeast Res

> Jul 2001 (Vol. 1, Issue 2, Pages 133-8)

>

> 22). Changes in major components of tea fungus

> metabolites during prolonged fermentation.

> Chen C, Liu BY

> J Appl Microbiol

> Nov 2000 (Vol. 89, Issue 5, Pages 834-9)

>

> 23). Novel nitrogen-fixing Acetobacter nitrogenifigens

> sp. nov., isolated from Kombucha tea.

> Dutta D, Gachhui R

> Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

> Aug 2006 (Vol. 56, Issue Pt 8, Pages 1899-903)

>

> 24) www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/kombucha.html

> Dr. Steinkraus, a Cornell University microbiologist,

> studied the activity of Kombucha against several bacteria:

> H. pylori (the one thatcauses ulcers), E. ...

>

> 25) Fermentations in World Food Processing (PDF)

> Cornell University. Ithaca, NY l4853. Introduction

> (Steinkraus 1995, 1996a,

> 1997) ... tea fungus/Kombucha beverage. Acta Biotch.

> 16:199-205. Steinkraus KH. ...

>

> 26) Microbiology and fermentation balance in a kombucha

> beverage obtained from a tea fungus fermentation

> Auteur(s) / Author(s)

> SIEVERS M. ; LANINI C. ; WEBER A. ; SCHULER-SCHMID U. ;

> TEUBER M. ;

> Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

> ETH-Zürich, Inst. Lebensmittelwiss., Lab.

> Lebensmittelmikrobiologie, 8092 Zürich, SUISSE

>

> 27)Scale-up of Black Tea Batch Fermentation by Kombucha

> Author(s): R. Malbaša 1 *, | E. Lon?ar 2, | M. Djuri? 3, |

> M. Klašnja 4, | LJ. Kolarov 5, | S. Markov 6

> doi: 10.1205/fbp.05061

>

> 28) Influence of Working Conditions Upon Kombucha Conducted

> Fermentation of Black Tea

> Author(s): E. Lon?ar 1, | M. Djuri? 2 *, | R. Malbaša 3, |

> LJ. Kolarov 4, | M. Klašnja 5

> doi: 10.1205/fbp.04306

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no way at 30.

I don't keep my house that warm.

Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of honey

vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

Cheers

Caitilin

On Nov 24, 2007 6:47 AM, Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

> Jim, what " profit "

> I believe we all profit from honest intellectual discourse.

>

> Making kombucha is an art. Some of this, some of that, ferment for

> awhile, Drink when WE are ready. But even if we don't - bacteria

> and yeast do follow rules.: zymurgy of kombucha

>

> You wrote

> " I really mean no disrespect Ed, but you do seem to think everyone

> else is stupid but you know what you're talking about. I've no doubt

> that you have a lot of experience making and profiting from

> kombucha but personally when money is involved I tend not to

> pay too much attention to what's being said as it tends to come

> across as ill informed ad copy " .

>

> You also wrote you made some pretty fine vinegar at 16 C That's

> quite a feat! Industry standard is 30 C. Every home vinegar recipe

> I've seen quotes a lot higher temperature range than that. May

> have something to do with acetic acid crystallizing at about 15° C.

> (59° F.) (According to U. S. P.)

>

> If you are doing well at these low thresholds than more power to

> you. But it is you that has no data to support your " hypothesis " .

> My data/My theory: Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n

>

> Below is some recent research on Kombucha and if you read

> through you'll see a pretty standard brewing method and

> their results. That is where I draw my theory from.

>

> The last one on the list is a study of temperatures at 22°C,

> 30°C and 35°C, The samples were taken after 0,

> 3, 7, 10, 14, 17 and 21 days (Time and Temperature all there)

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

>

> Data References

>

> 1) Rousin www.kombucha-research.com

> If You or Someone You Love Drinks Kombucha You Should

> Read This Book! Why? Because, It Separates the Facts

> >From the Hype! The E-Book " Analyses of Kombucha Ferments "

> provides a complete report on the results of 1,103 different

> chemical analysis of Kombucha samples from all over

> North America and even some from Europe

>

> 2) Determination and characterization of the anti-microbial

> activity of the fermented tea Kombucha

> C.J. Greenwalt, R.A. Ledford, and K.H. Steinkraus

> Department of Food Science Cornell University

> Ithaca, New York 14853

>

> 3) Dr. Sklenar's Kombucha mushroom infusion--a biological

> cancer therapy. Documentation No. 18]

> Hauser SP

> Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax

> Feb 1990 (Vol. 79, Issue 9, Pages 243-6)

>

> 4) Kombucha, the fermented tea: microbiology, composition,

> and claimed health effects.

> Greenwalt CJ, Steinkraus KH, Ledford RA

> J Food Prot Jul 2000 (Vol. 63, Issue 7, Pages 976-81)

>

> 5). Yeast ecology of Kombucha fermentation.

> Teoh AL, Heard G, J

> Int J Food Microbiol

> Sep 2004 (Vol. 95, Issue 2, Pages 119-26)

>

> 6). Kombucha fermentation and its antimicrobial activity.

> Sreeramulu G, Zhu Y, Knol W J Agric Food Chem

> Jun 2000 (Vol. 48, Issue 6, Pages 2589-94)

>

> 7). Effects of chronic kombucha ingestion on open-field

> behaviors, longevity, appetitive behaviors, and organs

> in c57-bl/6 mice: a pilot study.

> Hartmann AM, Burleson LE, Holmes AK, Geist CR

> Nutrition Sep 2000 (Vol. 16, Issue 9, Pages 755-61)

>

> 8) Probable gastrointestinal toxicity of Kombucha tea: is

> this beverage healthy or harmful?

> Srinivasan R, Smolinske S, Greenbaum D

> J Gen Intern Med Oct 1997 (Vol. 12, Issue 10, Pages 643-4)

>

> 9). Kombucha: a dubious " cure " .

> Majchrowicz M

> GMHC Treat Issues May 1995 (Vol. 9, Issue 5, Page 10)

>

> 10). [The Kombucha mushroom: two different opinions]

> Gamundi R, Valdivia M Sidahora

>

> 11). The yeast spectrum of the 'tea fungus Kombucha'.

> Mayser P, Fromme S, Leitzmann C, Gründer K

> Mycoses (Vol. 38, Issue 7-8, Pages 289-95)

>

> 12). Lead induced oxidative stress: beneficial effects of

> Kombucha tea.

> Dipti P, Yogesh B, Kain AK, ine T, Anju B, Sairam

> M, Singh B, Mongia SS, Kumar GI, Selvamurthy W

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Sep 2003 (Vol. 16, Issue 3, Pages 276-82)

> 16. Kombucha tea]

> Laier B Ugeskr Laeger

> May 2000 (Vol. 162, Issue 19, Page 2767)

>

> 13). Subacute (90 days) oral toxicity studies of

> Kombucha tea.

> Vijayaraghavan R, Singh M, Rao PV, Bhattacharya R, Kumar P,

> Sugendran K, Kumar O, Pant SC, Singh R

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Dec 2000 (Vol. 13, Issue 4, Pages 293-9)

>

> 14). Studies on toxicity, anti-stress and hepato-protective

> properties of Kombucha tea.

> ine T, Dipti P, Anju B, Kavimani S, Sharma SK, Kain AK,

> Sarada SK, Sairam M, Ilavazhagan G, Devendra K,

> Selvamurthy W

> Biomed Environ Sci

> Sep 2001 (Vol. 14, Issue 3, Pages 207-13)

>

> 15). Manufacture of a beverage from cheese whey using

> a " tea fungus " fermentation.

> Belloso-Morales G, Hernández-Sánchez H

> Rev Latinoam Microbiol

> (Vol. 45, Issue 1-2, Pages 5-11)

>

> 16). Effect of Kombucha tea on chromate(VI)-induced

> oxidative stress in albino rats.

> Sai Ram M, Anju B, ine T, Dipti P, Kain AK, Mongia SS,

> Sharma SK, Singh B, Singh R, Ilavazhagan G, Kumar D,

> Selvamurthy W

> J Ethnopharmacol

> Jul 2000 (Vol. 71, Issue 1-2, Pages 235-40)

>

> 17). Nitrogen-fixing and cellulose-producing Gluconacetobacter

> kombuchae sp. nov., isolated from

> Kombucha tea.

> Dutta D, Gachhui R

> Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

> Feb 2007 (Vol. 57, Issue Pt 2, Pages 353-7)

>

> 18). Acetobacter intermedius, sp. nov.

> Boesch C, Trcek J, Sievers M, Teuber M

> Syst Appl Microbiol

> Mar 1998 (Vol. 21, Issue 2, Pages 220-9)

>

> 19). Kombucha " mushroom " hepatotoxicity.

> Perron AD, JA, Yanofsky NN

> Ann Emerg Med

> Nov 1995 (Vol. 26, Issue 5, Pages 660-1)

>

> 20). Kombucha.

> Ishida Y

> Med J Aust

> May 1999 (Vol. 170, Issue 9, Page 454)

>

> 21). Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis, a new

> ascosporogenous yeast from Kombucha tea'.

> Kurtzman CP, Robnett CJ, Basehoar-Powers E

> FEMS Yeast Res

> Jul 2001 (Vol. 1, Issue 2, Pages 133-8)

>

> 22). Changes in major components of tea fungus

> metabolites during prolonged fermentation.

> Chen C, Liu BY

> J Appl Microbiol

> Nov 2000 (Vol. 89, Issue 5, Pages 834-9)

>

> 23). Novel nitrogen-fixing Acetobacter nitrogenifigens

> sp. nov., isolated from Kombucha tea.

> Dutta D, Gachhui R

> Int J Syst Evol Microbiol

> Aug 2006 (Vol. 56, Issue Pt 8, Pages 1899-903)

>

> 24) www.nutritionadvocate.com/story/kombucha.html

> Dr. Steinkraus, a Cornell University microbiologist,

> studied the activity of Kombucha against several bacteria:

> H. pylori (the one thatcauses ulcers), E. ...

>

> 25) Fermentations in World Food Processing (PDF)

> Cornell University. Ithaca, NY l4853. Introduction

> (Steinkraus 1995, 1996a,

> 1997) ... tea fungus/Kombucha beverage. Acta Biotch.

> 16:199-205. Steinkraus KH. ...

>

> 26) Microbiology and fermentation balance in a kombucha

> beverage obtained from a tea fungus fermentation

> Auteur(s) / Author(s)

> SIEVERS M. ; LANINI C. ; WEBER A. ; SCHULER-SCHMID U. ;

> TEUBER M. ;

> Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s)

> ETH-Zürich, Inst. Lebensmittelwiss., Lab.

> Lebensmittelmikrobiologie, 8092 Zürich, SUISSE

>

> 27)Scale-up of Black Tea Batch Fermentation by Kombucha

> Author(s): R. Malbaša 1 *, | E. Lon?ar 2, | M. Djuri? 3, |

> M. Klašnja 4, | LJ. Kolarov 5, | S. Markov 6

> doi: 10.1205/fbp.05061

>

> 28) Influence of Working Conditions Upon Kombucha Conducted

> Fermentation of Black Tea

> Author(s): E. Lon?ar 1, | M. Djuri? 2 *, | R. Malbaša 3, |

> LJ. Kolarov 4, | M. Klašnja 5

> doi: 10.1205/fbp.04306

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

In message <IGEFIGPCJBIMGAAFFJHAOEPPKBAA.eddy@...> you wrote:

> I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Hi Ed, I should think it would depend on your very personal circumstances.

Our thermostat is set at 20C/68F - general house temperature. I think that

the kitchen temps are a shade higher with cooking activities.

I consider 20-24C quite a good brewing temperature which gives me very

excellent KT.

There is no heating in the night, so temperatures can fall to 60F or lower.

This does not seem to faze my Kombucha culture, though.

All the best with blessings,

Margret:-)

--

+------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

+----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

God sent His only Son into the world so that we might have life

through Him (1 4)

[Guest guest]

In message <IGEFIGPCJBIMGAAFFJHAOEPPKBAA.eddy@...> you wrote:

> I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Hi Ed, I should think it would depend on your very personal circumstances.

Our thermostat is set at 20C/68F - general house temperature. I think that

the kitchen temps are a shade higher with cooking activities.

I consider 20-24C quite a good brewing temperature which gives me very

excellent KT.

There is no heating in the night, so temperatures can fall to 60F or lower.

This does not seem to faze my Kombucha culture, though.

All the best with blessings,

Margret:-)

--

+------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

+----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

God sent His only Son into the world so that we might have life

through Him (1 4)

[Guest guest]

I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Caitilin " just.caitilin@... just.caitilin

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:41 am (PST)

I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no way at 30.

I don't keep my house that warm.

Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of honey

vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

Cheers

Caitilin

[Guest guest]

I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Caitilin " just.caitilin@... just.caitilin

Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:41 am (PST)

I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no way at 30.

I don't keep my house that warm.

Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of honey

vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

Cheers

Caitilin

[Guest guest]

LOL...Right now my room temp is about 50 degrees. A little chilly - I guess

I better light the pilot on the heater, huh?

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

>I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

[Guest guest]

LOL...Right now my room temp is about 50 degrees. A little chilly - I guess

I better light the pilot on the heater, huh?

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

>I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

[Guest guest]

Ed I can see you're one of those guys that just likes to 'win' even if that

means getting off the

point. I did make vinegar at between 16-19C it was winter and cold in my

cupboard. Ideal

and what just is are two totally different things Ed. If you're going to imply

that I'm making it

up then there really is no point in discussing this any further. You make a

mockery or your

sign off Ed.

Jim

> You also wrote you made some pretty fine vinegar at 16 C That's

> quite a feat! Industry standard is 30 C. Every home vinegar recipe

> I've seen quotes a lot higher temperature range than that. May

> have something to do with acetic acid crystallizing at about 15° C.

> (59° F.) (According to U. S. P.)

[Guest guest]

Lol, we used to keep it at 20-21C. Now i'm very often at 18-19 or so for

most of the day, only bumping it up to 20 or so for the evening and then

opening the window to sleep in whatever temperature it is outside (and i

live in dublin, ireland, so currenty around 4-8C).

Sleeping without heating is healthier. I also get far less sniffles.

Cait

On Nov 24, 2007 5:12 PM, Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

> I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

>

>

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> www.HappyHerbalist.com

> .............................................

> Re: No babies

> Posted by: " Caitilin " just.caitilin@... <just.caitilin%40gmail.com>

> just.caitilin

> Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:41 am (PST)

> I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no way at

> 30.

> I don't keep my house that warm.

>

> Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of

> honey

> vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

>

> Cheers

> Caitilin

>

>

>

--

livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

[Guest guest]

Back in the 1970's we used to keep our thermostat at 72-74F (22 C)

Then came the gas crunch and the heating bills soared.

Folks were told - by the energy company, to just turn down the

thermostat 2-3 degrees and don't worry.

It seems to me that most folks now see room temp as 68 (21 C).

I wonder about this because many ferment recipes mention

" room temperature " and if those values seem to be changing.

and maybe not the temperature intended.

I was just reading a winemakers article and it mentions

Temperature swings are probably the biggest cause for stuck fermentations.

A shift of only 5 to 9° F (15° C) up or down can be enough to do it.

Stuck fermentation is incomplete conversion of the sugar into alcohol into

acids and advised to Keep the temperature of fermenting wine constant.

Never noticed this before as a problem with kombucha.

One person just sent me their kombucha. Said it kept making only sweet

kombucha and a fat baby. When we got it the ferment was over 15 days old

a one-inch thick baby and the pH was 2.88 and tasted surprisingly sweet.

We used it to start a new batch, Nov 21, basic recipe. one cup sugar

set it on a Guenther heating pad. Maintain a constant 82F (28 C)

Today Nov 24, there's about 1/8 " mushroom slightly lifted up by bubbles.

In general bubbles would indicate yeast activity. Mushroom bacteria

activity.

I was thinking it may have been a stuck ferment. One way to unstuck a

ferment is to oxygenate it. Mailing and handling could have shaken it up

enough. Very interesting. I'll have to wait for the taste test on day 8.

any comments,

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.........................................

.. Re: No babies

Posted by: " Margret Pegg " Minstrel@...

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:40 am (PST)

In message <IGEFIGPCJBIMGAAFFJHAOEPPKBAA.eddy@...> you wrote:

> I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Hi Ed, I should think it would depend on your very personal circumstances.

Our thermostat is set at 20C/68F - general house temperature. I think that

the kitchen temps are a shade higher with cooking activities.

I consider 20-24C quite a good brewing temperature which gives me very

excellent KT.

There is no heating in the night, so temperatures can fall to 60F or lower.

This does not seem to faze my Kombucha culture, though.

All the best with blessings,

Margret:-)

[Guest guest]

Back in the 1970's we used to keep our thermostat at 72-74F (22 C)

Then came the gas crunch and the heating bills soared.

Folks were told - by the energy company, to just turn down the

thermostat 2-3 degrees and don't worry.

It seems to me that most folks now see room temp as 68 (21 C).

I wonder about this because many ferment recipes mention

" room temperature " and if those values seem to be changing.

and maybe not the temperature intended.

I was just reading a winemakers article and it mentions

Temperature swings are probably the biggest cause for stuck fermentations.

A shift of only 5 to 9° F (15° C) up or down can be enough to do it.

Stuck fermentation is incomplete conversion of the sugar into alcohol into

acids and advised to Keep the temperature of fermenting wine constant.

Never noticed this before as a problem with kombucha.

One person just sent me their kombucha. Said it kept making only sweet

kombucha and a fat baby. When we got it the ferment was over 15 days old

a one-inch thick baby and the pH was 2.88 and tasted surprisingly sweet.

We used it to start a new batch, Nov 21, basic recipe. one cup sugar

set it on a Guenther heating pad. Maintain a constant 82F (28 C)

Today Nov 24, there's about 1/8 " mushroom slightly lifted up by bubbles.

In general bubbles would indicate yeast activity. Mushroom bacteria

activity.

I was thinking it may have been a stuck ferment. One way to unstuck a

ferment is to oxygenate it. Mailing and handling could have shaken it up

enough. Very interesting. I'll have to wait for the taste test on day 8.

any comments,

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

.........................................

.. Re: No babies

Posted by: " Margret Pegg " Minstrel@...

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:40 am (PST)

In message <IGEFIGPCJBIMGAAFFJHAOEPPKBAA.eddy@...> you wrote:

> I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems to be

> getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room temperature ?

Hi Ed, I should think it would depend on your very personal circumstances.

Our thermostat is set at 20C/68F - general house temperature. I think that

the kitchen temps are a shade higher with cooking activities.

I consider 20-24C quite a good brewing temperature which gives me very

excellent KT.

There is no heating in the night, so temperatures can fall to 60F or lower.

This does not seem to faze my Kombucha culture, though.

All the best with blessings,

Margret:-)

[Guest guest]

I live in USA and only know temperatures in F degrees so I don't

understand what the temperature you all are talking about. But I

guess it really doesn't matter if I understand. No? Sunny

>

> > I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems

to be

> > getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room

temperature ?

> >

> >

> > Peace

> >

> > Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> > www.HappyHerbalist.com

> > .............................................

> > Re: No babies

> > Posted by: " Caitilin " just.caitilin@... <just.caitilin%40gmail.com>

> > just.caitilin

> > Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:41 am (PST)

> > I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no

way at

> > 30.

> > I don't keep my house that warm.

> >

> > Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of

> > honey

> > vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Caitilin

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

>

> St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I live in USA and only know temperatures in F degrees so I don't

understand what the temperature you all are talking about. But I

guess it really doesn't matter if I understand. No? Sunny

>

> > I used to think of room temperature as 72-78 F (22-26 C). Seems

to be

> > getting a bit more chilly now. What would you say is room

temperature ?

> >

> >

> > Peace

> >

> > Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> > www.HappyHerbalist.com

> > .............................................

> > Re: No babies

> > Posted by: " Caitilin " just.caitilin@... <just.caitilin%40gmail.com>

> > just.caitilin

> > Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:41 am (PST)

> > I've also made date vinegar a few times at room termperature, no

way at

> > 30.

> > I don't keep my house that warm.

> >

> > Its quiet possible. I also have a friend hwo has brewed five gallon of

> > honey

> > vinegar instead of mead.......by accident.

> >

> > Cheers

> > Caitilin

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> livejournal: http://wildchildcait.livejournal.com

>

> St drove the snakes out of Ireland. Caitilin drove them back!

>

>

>