Re: No babies

[Guest guest]

One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove

fluoride. I use a home distiller then add trace minerals and 1/2 tsp

sea salt per gallon of water, and let it sit in a bright window for 24

hours. I saw the sunlight recommended to make distilled water " live "

again. I don't know if there is anything to that part, but my KT loves

it. I have beautiful SCOBYs that climb right out of the jar!

Also if memory serves me some of the Bucha Gurus

also dis the " Brita " . I believe it removes everything including the

trace minerals that are beneficial to the brew. The water may be clean

and pure but in reality for our purpose it's dead. I could be wrong

about this, but I do know that it didn't work for me and thought it was

worth mentioning. They don't call me 'WaterSprite' for nothing.

LOL

[Guest guest]

Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes

forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len

is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one

" super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C).

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST)

..............................

I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website

that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728

and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK.

Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It

would have to be something really safe too.

Jo

[Guest guest]

Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes

forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len

is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one

" super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C).

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST)

..............................

I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website

that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728

and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK.

Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It

would have to be something really safe too.

Jo

[Guest guest]

" then add trace minerals "

Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

> One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove

> fluoride.

[Guest guest]

" then add trace minerals "

Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

> One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove

> fluoride.

[Guest guest]

From Sprite...

>I believe it removes everything including the trace minerals that are

beneficial >to the brew. The water may be clean and pure but in reality for our

purpose it's > dead. I could be wrong about this, but I do know that it didn't

work for me >and thought it was worth mentioning.

Sounds good to me, I've been muttering sotto voce for ages now that we might,

actually, be becoming too sterile.

Nn. England.

[Guest guest]

From Sprite...

>I believe it removes everything including the trace minerals that are

beneficial >to the brew. The water may be clean and pure but in reality for our

purpose it's > dead. I could be wrong about this, but I do know that it didn't

work for me >and thought it was worth mentioning.

Sounds good to me, I've been muttering sotto voce for ages now that we might,

actually, be becoming too sterile.

Nn. England.

[Guest guest]

Gayle...

>On the other hand (OT) my water kefir grains die with RO water so I have to

>lug gallons of well water from my sister's house in order to be successful with

>that.

A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can remove

too much from your life giving fluid.

Nn. England.

[Guest guest]

Gayle...

>On the other hand (OT) my water kefir grains die with RO water so I have to

>lug gallons of well water from my sister's house in order to be successful with

>that.

A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can remove

too much from your life giving fluid.

Nn. England.

[Guest guest]

Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps.

So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be

hunky-dory, then?

I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as

regards the temp?

Gayle

[Guest guest]

Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps.

So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be

hunky-dory, then?

I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as

regards the temp?

Gayle

[Guest guest]

> A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can

> remove too much from your life giving fluid.

>

>

> Nn. England.

...agreed. Most heartily...but the water utility does not let

homeowners in town that have access to water lines drill wells. So my use

of RO is to get out the chemicals they put in! And I am confident that

eating lots of fruits and veggies and using Himalyan sea salt instead of the

dead white stuff will get me the minerals I need.

I wholeheartedly share your opinion that people are trying to make their

environments too sterile...trust me...that ain't me! Between Kombucha,

Water Kefir, Yoghurt and my journeying into the world of lacto-fermented

vegetables and fruits, my world is chock full of teensy flora and fauna!

Nor will you find any soaps containing antibiotics. Guess that's another

conversation, tho'.

Gayle (Town dweller)

WI/USA

[Guest guest]

> A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can

> remove too much from your life giving fluid.

>

>

> Nn. England.

...agreed. Most heartily...but the water utility does not let

homeowners in town that have access to water lines drill wells. So my use

of RO is to get out the chemicals they put in! And I am confident that

eating lots of fruits and veggies and using Himalyan sea salt instead of the

dead white stuff will get me the minerals I need.

I wholeheartedly share your opinion that people are trying to make their

environments too sterile...trust me...that ain't me! Between Kombucha,

Water Kefir, Yoghurt and my journeying into the world of lacto-fermented

vegetables and fruits, my world is chock full of teensy flora and fauna!

Nor will you find any soaps containing antibiotics. Guess that's another

conversation, tho'.

Gayle (Town dweller)

WI/USA

[Guest guest]

In the Northeast NY area with fuel at approx $3 a gallon, there is going to be

a slow steady ferment in this house this winter

HippeeSandee

Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation

takes

forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len

is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one

" super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C).

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST)

..............................

I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website

that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728

and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK.

Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It

would have to be something really safe too.

Jo

~~PEACE~~

HippeeSandee

HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

In the Northeast NY area with fuel at approx $3 a gallon, there is going to be

a slow steady ferment in this house this winter

HippeeSandee

Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote:

Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation

takes

forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len

is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one

" super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C).

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST)

..............................

I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website

that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728

and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK.

Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It

would have to be something really safe too.

Jo

~~PEACE~~

HippeeSandee

HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm

---------------------------------

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

" then add trace minerals "

Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

Gayla

Gayla,

I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of

water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is

too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I

use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my

minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps

Patty

[Guest guest]

" then add trace minerals "

Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

Gayla

Gayla,

I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of

water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is

too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I

use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my

minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps

Patty

[Guest guest]

Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and one not

typically found in a kombucha ferment.

Also even the more popular stains of Lactobacillus which may be found in

kombucha are not found in every kombucha. i.e., Lactobacillus is not in

every kombucha. This is important IMHO, because we are trying to determine

the effect of temperatures on a kombucha ferment and since Lactobacillus

does not produce gluconic acid (a major component of kombucha) it would be

better to chart the temperatures (as you have done) with the species

Gluconacetobacter. It would be really valuable to chart 1) Zygosaccharomyces

kombuchaensis sp. n. (type strain NRRL YB-4811, CBS 8849) a yeasts

specifically identified in kombucha tea and 2) Gluconacetobacter kombucha

sp. nov. i (type strain RG3T (=LMG 23726T=MTCC 6913T) a bacteria

specifically identified in kombucha tea.

I have some charts of Acetobactium on my site Time & Temperature

http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n. Still to be more valuable - since kombucha is a

synergistic ferment (both a yeasts and a bacteria simultaneous fermenting)

charting both bacteria and yeast would be super.

still useful information, thanks for posting.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site

Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am (PST)

Hi , that's what I always used to quote, it's way more

complicated than that when I found some data. Around 21°C it's more

like a doubling/halving for 5°C either way, I plotted a chart for

it, it's a bynomial formula with different x-n values for each

organism, I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will

vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link.

Actually it's gone, this will be the link

http://tinyurl.com/2gvvab

give me time I might have to redo it. Try again later if it comes up

blank.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and one not

typically found in a kombucha ferment.

Also even the more popular stains of Lactobacillus which may be found in

kombucha are not found in every kombucha. i.e., Lactobacillus is not in

every kombucha. This is important IMHO, because we are trying to determine

the effect of temperatures on a kombucha ferment and since Lactobacillus

does not produce gluconic acid (a major component of kombucha) it would be

better to chart the temperatures (as you have done) with the species

Gluconacetobacter. It would be really valuable to chart 1) Zygosaccharomyces

kombuchaensis sp. n. (type strain NRRL YB-4811, CBS 8849) a yeasts

specifically identified in kombucha tea and 2) Gluconacetobacter kombucha

sp. nov. i (type strain RG3T (=LMG 23726T=MTCC 6913T) a bacteria

specifically identified in kombucha tea.

I have some charts of Acetobactium on my site Time & Temperature

http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n. Still to be more valuable - since kombucha is a

synergistic ferment (both a yeasts and a bacteria simultaneous fermenting)

charting both bacteria and yeast would be super.

still useful information, thanks for posting.

Peace

Ed Kasper LAc. & family

www.HappyHerbalist.com

..............................................

Re: No babies

Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site

Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am (PST)

Hi , that's what I always used to quote, it's way more

complicated than that when I found some data. Around 21°C it's more

like a doubling/halving for 5°C either way, I plotted a chart for

it, it's a bynomial formula with different x-n values for each

organism, I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will

vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link.

Actually it's gone, this will be the link

http://tinyurl.com/2gvvab

give me time I might have to redo it. Try again later if it comes up

blank.

Jim

[Guest guest]

Thanks Patty!

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

> " then add trace minerals "

> Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

> Gayla

>

> Gayla,

> I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of

> water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is

> too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I

> use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my

> minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps

> Patty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Patty!

Gayla

Always Enough Ranch

Acampo, California

http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html

aeranch@...

Re: No babies

> " then add trace minerals "

> Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA

> Gayla

>

> Gayla,

> I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of

> water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is

> too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I

> use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my

> minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps

> Patty

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo,

our hands aren't that good at testing temperature, try the old elbow

trick next time you're running some water. You think it's okay with

your hands but your elbow tells a different story. It really should

feel cool when you touch it. Blood heat is 37 ish I make sure it's

no higher than 30 to be safe.

If you look at the graph that I posted yesterday you'll see that

it's a 'U' shaped graph. So there's a 'sweet' spot at either side of

about 22. The yeast will produce more alcohol at around 18°C so some

brewers and bread makers plumb for the temperature as the best.

Different yeasts and bacteria have different 'sweet' spots so you

can take an average. The more organisms the more complicated it is

to find the best temperature and the graph looks more like the South

Downs than simple 'U'

Jim

>

>

> Thank you both for response.

>

> I used 2teabags of Tetley + 2 teabags of plain green tea + 1.5

liters

> filtered water (Brita filter) + ½ cup of plain white sugar +

approx.

> 1 cup of starter, but the original one (scoby was packed in) was

like

> a vinegar. The one I brew wasn't even close. Jar is located away

from

> light, on the kitchen counter.

>

> Mistake I think I made - when I was making second batch I put

scoby

> in not completely cooled tea, slightly warmer than my hands. My

hands

> are usually cold so that wasn't more than 30 degrees Celsius.

Second

> thing was brewing time, 7 days could've been too soon. But it

tasted

> as other people described.

>

> I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this

website

> that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?

200728

> and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK.

>

> Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know.

It

> would have to be something really safe too.

>

> Jo

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gayle,

well that's the temperature range I go for. My heat mat is quite

warm but I don't insulate so the brew itself is a nice comfortable

temperature and I get a perfect brew in about five days. I then take

out what I want to bottle and can then leave the scoby's with enough

tea to keep them going for a couple of days til I get round to

feeding them again. That way the starter brew is more acidic than

the stuff I bottle. I have a hotel too but these days it's really

just a scoby bank.

>

> Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps.

>

> So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything

should be

> hunky-dory, then?

>

> I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at

least as

> regards the temp?

>

> Gayle

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gayle,

well that's the temperature range I go for. My heat mat is quite

warm but I don't insulate so the brew itself is a nice comfortable

temperature and I get a perfect brew in about five days. I then take

out what I want to bottle and can then leave the scoby's with enough

tea to keep them going for a couple of days til I get round to

feeding them again. That way the starter brew is more acidic than

the stuff I bottle. I have a hotel too but these days it's really

just a scoby bank.

>

> Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps.

>

> So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything

should be

> hunky-dory, then?

>

> I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at

least as

> regards the temp?

>

> Gayle

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed.

With all respect. You should read what the author has written and

perhaps try to understand what they are saying before taking the

time to say the same thing again because you assume that you're

talking to a dunce.

was talking about chemical reactions, my intention was to

point out using sourdough flora as an example because I had no data

for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using enzymes as

catalysts act quite differently to the standard Arrhenius equation

type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear. Perhaps I should

take more time and explain things more but if the reader doesn't

take the time to read and understand then I'd just be wasting my

time. So perhaps not.

peace

Jim

>

> Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and

one not

> typically found in a kombucha ferment.

>...

> Peace

>

> Ed Kasper LAc. & family

> .............................................

> Re: No babies

> ... I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will

> vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link.

>

> Jim