Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove fluoride. I use a home distiller then add trace minerals and 1/2 tsp sea salt per gallon of water, and let it sit in a bright window for 24 hours. I saw the sunlight recommended to make distilled water " live " again. I don't know if there is anything to that part, but my KT loves it. I have beautiful SCOBYs that climb right out of the jar! Also if memory serves me some of the Bucha Gurus also dis the " Brita " . I believe it removes everything including the trace minerals that are beneficial to the brew. The water may be clean and pure but in reality for our purpose it's dead. I could be wrong about this, but I do know that it didn't work for me and thought it was worth mentioning. They don't call me 'WaterSprite' for nothing. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one " super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C). Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com ............................................ Re: No babies Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564 Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST) .............................. I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728 and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK. Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It would have to be something really safe too. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one " super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C). Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com ............................................ Re: No babies Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564 Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST) .............................. I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728 and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK. Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It would have to be something really safe too. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 " then add trace minerals " Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html aeranch@... Re: No babies > One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove > fluoride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 " then add trace minerals " Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html aeranch@... Re: No babies > One other thing to consider about BRITA....it does NOT remove > fluoride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 From Sprite... >I believe it removes everything including the trace minerals that are beneficial >to the brew. The water may be clean and pure but in reality for our purpose it's > dead. I could be wrong about this, but I do know that it didn't work for me >and thought it was worth mentioning. Sounds good to me, I've been muttering sotto voce for ages now that we might, actually, be becoming too sterile. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 From Sprite... >I believe it removes everything including the trace minerals that are beneficial >to the brew. The water may be clean and pure but in reality for our purpose it's > dead. I could be wrong about this, but I do know that it didn't work for me >and thought it was worth mentioning. Sounds good to me, I've been muttering sotto voce for ages now that we might, actually, be becoming too sterile. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Gayle... >On the other hand (OT) my water kefir grains die with RO water so I have to >lug gallons of well water from my sister's house in order to be successful with >that. A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can remove too much from your life giving fluid. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Gayle... >On the other hand (OT) my water kefir grains die with RO water so I have to >lug gallons of well water from my sister's house in order to be successful with >that. A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can remove too much from your life giving fluid. Nn. England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps. So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be hunky-dory, then? I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as regards the temp? Gayle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps. So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be hunky-dory, then? I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as regards the temp? Gayle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 > A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can > remove too much from your life giving fluid. > > > Nn. England. ...agreed. Most heartily...but the water utility does not let homeowners in town that have access to water lines drill wells. So my use of RO is to get out the chemicals they put in! And I am confident that eating lots of fruits and veggies and using Himalyan sea salt instead of the dead white stuff will get me the minerals I need. I wholeheartedly share your opinion that people are trying to make their environments too sterile...trust me...that ain't me! Between Kombucha, Water Kefir, Yoghurt and my journeying into the world of lacto-fermented vegetables and fruits, my world is chock full of teensy flora and fauna! Nor will you find any soaps containing antibiotics. Guess that's another conversation, tho'. Gayle (Town dweller) WI/USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 > A case of " Horses for courses " but it does, kinda, suggest that you can > remove too much from your life giving fluid. > > > Nn. England. ...agreed. Most heartily...but the water utility does not let homeowners in town that have access to water lines drill wells. So my use of RO is to get out the chemicals they put in! And I am confident that eating lots of fruits and veggies and using Himalyan sea salt instead of the dead white stuff will get me the minerals I need. I wholeheartedly share your opinion that people are trying to make their environments too sterile...trust me...that ain't me! Between Kombucha, Water Kefir, Yoghurt and my journeying into the world of lacto-fermented vegetables and fruits, my world is chock full of teensy flora and fauna! Nor will you find any soaps containing antibiotics. Guess that's another conversation, tho'. Gayle (Town dweller) WI/USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 In the Northeast NY area with fuel at approx $3 a gallon, there is going to be a slow steady ferment in this house this winter HippeeSandee Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote: Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one " super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C). Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com ............................................ Re: No babies Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564 Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST) .............................. I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728 and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK. Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It would have to be something really safe too. Jo ~~PEACE~~ HippeeSandee HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 In the Northeast NY area with fuel at approx $3 a gallon, there is going to be a slow steady ferment in this house this winter HippeeSandee Happy Herbalist <eddy@...> wrote: Jo, Len posits that at " below 65 (brrrr..) will find fermentation takes forever " . His suggestion is 73-74 F (24C). One should understand that Len is talking about a ferment that is already well established and probably one " super-strain " . I believe Len's typical ferment is 14 days. at 74 F (24C). Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com ............................................ Re: No babies Posted by: " polishgirl564 " polishgirl564@... polishgirl564 Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:49 am (PST) .............................. I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/?200728 and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK. Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It would have to be something really safe too. Jo ~~PEACE~~ HippeeSandee HippeeSandee's Endless Mountains Realm --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 " then add trace minerals " Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA Gayla Gayla, I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 " then add trace minerals " Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA Gayla Gayla, I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps Patty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and one not typically found in a kombucha ferment. Also even the more popular stains of Lactobacillus which may be found in kombucha are not found in every kombucha. i.e., Lactobacillus is not in every kombucha. This is important IMHO, because we are trying to determine the effect of temperatures on a kombucha ferment and since Lactobacillus does not produce gluconic acid (a major component of kombucha) it would be better to chart the temperatures (as you have done) with the species Gluconacetobacter. It would be really valuable to chart 1) Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis sp. n. (type strain NRRL YB-4811, CBS 8849) a yeasts specifically identified in kombucha tea and 2) Gluconacetobacter kombucha sp. nov. i (type strain RG3T (=LMG 23726T=MTCC 6913T) a bacteria specifically identified in kombucha tea. I have some charts of Acetobactium on my site Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n. Still to be more valuable - since kombucha is a synergistic ferment (both a yeasts and a bacteria simultaneous fermenting) charting both bacteria and yeast would be super. still useful information, thanks for posting. Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com .............................................. Re: No babies Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am (PST) Hi , that's what I always used to quote, it's way more complicated than that when I found some data. Around 21°C it's more like a doubling/halving for 5°C either way, I plotted a chart for it, it's a bynomial formula with different x-n values for each organism, I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link. Actually it's gone, this will be the link http://tinyurl.com/2gvvab give me time I might have to redo it. Try again later if it comes up blank. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and one not typically found in a kombucha ferment. Also even the more popular stains of Lactobacillus which may be found in kombucha are not found in every kombucha. i.e., Lactobacillus is not in every kombucha. This is important IMHO, because we are trying to determine the effect of temperatures on a kombucha ferment and since Lactobacillus does not produce gluconic acid (a major component of kombucha) it would be better to chart the temperatures (as you have done) with the species Gluconacetobacter. It would be really valuable to chart 1) Zygosaccharomyces kombuchaensis sp. n. (type strain NRRL YB-4811, CBS 8849) a yeasts specifically identified in kombucha tea and 2) Gluconacetobacter kombucha sp. nov. i (type strain RG3T (=LMG 23726T=MTCC 6913T) a bacteria specifically identified in kombucha tea. I have some charts of Acetobactium on my site Time & Temperature http://tinyurl.com/2nn87n. Still to be more valuable - since kombucha is a synergistic ferment (both a yeasts and a bacteria simultaneous fermenting) charting both bacteria and yeast would be super. still useful information, thanks for posting. Peace Ed Kasper LAc. & family www.HappyHerbalist.com .............................................. Re: No babies Posted by: " Jim " jim.ferments@... fermenting_everything_in_site Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:07 am (PST) Hi , that's what I always used to quote, it's way more complicated than that when I found some data. Around 21°C it's more like a doubling/halving for 5°C either way, I plotted a chart for it, it's a bynomial formula with different x-n values for each organism, I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link. Actually it's gone, this will be the link http://tinyurl.com/2gvvab give me time I might have to redo it. Try again later if it comes up blank. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Thanks Patty! Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html aeranch@... Re: No babies > " then add trace minerals " > Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA > Gayla > > Gayla, > I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of > water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is > too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I > use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my > minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps > Patty > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Thanks Patty! Gayla Always Enough Ranch Acampo, California http://bouncinghoofs.com/alwaysenough.html aeranch@... Re: No babies > " then add trace minerals " > Patty, how do you add minerals? TIA > Gayla > > Gayla, > I order colloidal trace minerals and add 2 droppers per gallon of > water. Sea salt is cheaper and will add minerals too, but the water is > too salty if I use the full teaspoon of salt ( I read 1/4tsp/qt) so I > use 1/2 sea salt and 1/2 trace minerals. Hope this helps. I get my > minerals from www.nutritiongeeks.com Hope this helps > Patty > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Jo, our hands aren't that good at testing temperature, try the old elbow trick next time you're running some water. You think it's okay with your hands but your elbow tells a different story. It really should feel cool when you touch it. Blood heat is 37 ish I make sure it's no higher than 30 to be safe. If you look at the graph that I posted yesterday you'll see that it's a 'U' shaped graph. So there's a 'sweet' spot at either side of about 22. The yeast will produce more alcohol at around 18°C so some brewers and bread makers plumb for the temperature as the best. Different yeasts and bacteria have different 'sweet' spots so you can take an average. The more organisms the more complicated it is to find the best temperature and the graph looks more like the South Downs than simple 'U' Jim > > > Thank you both for response. > > I used 2teabags of Tetley + 2 teabags of plain green tea + 1.5 liters > filtered water (Brita filter) + ½ cup of plain white sugar + approx. > 1 cup of starter, but the original one (scoby was packed in) was like > a vinegar. The one I brew wasn't even close. Jar is located away from > light, on the kitchen counter. > > Mistake I think I made - when I was making second batch I put scoby > in not completely cooled tea, slightly warmer than my hands. My hands > are usually cold so that wasn't more than 30 degrees Celsius. Second > thing was brewing time, 7 days could've been too soon. But it tasted > as other people described. > > I still think the temperature is the problem. There is this website > that i like a lot http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/? 200728 > and he thinks 19 degrees celsius is OK. > > Gayle if you think of some way to warm it up please let me know. It > would have to be something really safe too. > > Jo > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Gayle, well that's the temperature range I go for. My heat mat is quite warm but I don't insulate so the brew itself is a nice comfortable temperature and I get a perfect brew in about five days. I then take out what I want to bottle and can then leave the scoby's with enough tea to keep them going for a couple of days til I get round to feeding them again. That way the starter brew is more acidic than the stuff I bottle. I have a hotel too but these days it's really just a scoby bank. > > Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps. > > So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be > hunky-dory, then? > > I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as > regards the temp? > > Gayle > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Gayle, well that's the temperature range I go for. My heat mat is quite warm but I don't insulate so the brew itself is a nice comfortable temperature and I get a perfect brew in about five days. I then take out what I want to bottle and can then leave the scoby's with enough tea to keep them going for a couple of days til I get round to feeding them again. That way the starter brew is more acidic than the stuff I bottle. I have a hotel too but these days it's really just a scoby bank. > > Jim..Nice graph...I'm visually oriented so that really helps. > > So if we keep things going between 20 and 26 degrees C. everything should be > hunky-dory, then? > > I mean things have the best chance of remaining in balance...at least as > regards the temp? > > Gayle > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Ed. With all respect. You should read what the author has written and perhaps try to understand what they are saying before taking the time to say the same thing again because you assume that you're talking to a dunce. was talking about chemical reactions, my intention was to point out using sourdough flora as an example because I had no data for Kombucha's flora that biological systems using enzymes as catalysts act quite differently to the standard Arrhenius equation type reaction. I thought I'd made that quite clear. Perhaps I should take more time and explain things more but if the reader doesn't take the time to read and understand then I'd just be wasting my time. So perhaps not. peace Jim > > Jim, Your chart show for a specific strain of Lactobacillus, and one not > typically found in a kombucha ferment. >... > Peace > > Ed Kasper LAc. & family > ............................................. > Re: No babies > ... I'm talking Candida m. yeasts and Lactobacilli, so it will > vary for the KT flora. I'll find the graph and post a link. > > Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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