Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

[Guest guest]

Natalia,The type of tomato I use to make juice, is rather fleshy, so there is less water in it, and they are tasty. Normally I use 6 kilograms in 2 saucepans of about 4 liter content. That gives 6 liters of tomato juice, and in special cans I put them in one of our freezers.I think that we should eat more than tomatoes, because we need all types of vitamins and minerals. Varied food of course is important, for instance vitamin B-12 is absent in tomatoes.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: dinsdag 29 mei 2012 18:19Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, How many tomatoes of average size correspond to 120 gr of juice? Dr. Grim, why do we are not recommended to eat just a lot of tomatoes? Is it impossible to substitute V8 low sodium with natural tomatoes for everyone? Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:46 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Natalia, Thanks for your message and telling us about your experience. It stimulated me to see what the standard amount of Natrium in tomato juice is, in the supermarkets here. Recalculated to 120 grams, that varies between about 264 and 336 mg.Since we have gardereners growing tomatoes in our family, we can get them for free, about 9 months a year. If I have time, I make large portions tomato juice myself. Then it has only 6 mg of Na per 120 gr, if I'm well. But not everyone is in such a privileged situation, to have time and a sufficient freezer capacity.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: maandag 28 mei 2012 20:18Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, you can also try to find just low Na tomato or vegetable juice in NL. I recently found one in Moscow. It was funny, since there is no such regulation to label sodium in packaged food in Russia, nevertheless I found tomato juice which was labeled with Na < = 200 mg in 120 g. It was only one thing out of hundreds that I inspected in Russian supermarkets. It worked excellent for me, so I stopped to take K supplements immediately. Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:08 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Dr. Grim, Thanks for your contributions!I've don't know any usual brand in NL that produces V8.But it must be available in specialized shop, will continue searching.No, I am not eating licorice (drop in Dutch), since I experienced to have hypertension at 28 yrs. Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Clarence GrimVerzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:56Aan: hyperaldosteronism CC: Clarence GrimOnderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Look for V-8 and read the labels. Let us know what you find there. Are you a licorice eater? The Dutch have the best. Should have both Na and K on the label. and:Look for the tomato/veggie drink in the market called V-8. But only use the low sodium or spicy version as regular is loaded with Na. One of the best source of K we have found. To convert mg K to mM or mEq K divide by 40. Goal with DASH is 4700 mg K, 1500 Na. On May 23, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Arend de Haan wrote: In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.Arend Van: Valarie Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na) V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan My intake was 3.000 mg K.Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K. I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.I don't understand what " a cup of low Na V-8 " is.Is this part of the DASHing diet?Can I get this in The Netherlands?Thanks for your time and information!Kind regards,Arend de Haan

[Guest guest]

Indeed need to eat meat to get B12. Strict vegetarians get B12 def as do their babies. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 29, 2012, at 13:28, Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...> wrote:

Natalia,The type of tomato I use to make juice, is rather fleshy, so there is less water in it, and they are tasty. Normally I use 6 kilograms in 2 saucepans of about 4 liter content. That gives 6 liters of tomato juice, and in special cans I put them in one of our freezers.I think that we should eat more than tomatoes, because we need all types of vitamins and minerals. Varied food of course is important, for instance vitamin B-12 is absent in tomatoes.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: dinsdag 29 mei 2012 18:19Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, How many tomatoes of average size correspond to 120 gr of

juice? Dr. Grim, why do we are not recommended to eat just a lot of tomatoes? Is it impossible to substitute V8 low sodium with natural tomatoes for everyone? Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:46 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Natalia, Thanks for your message and telling us about your experience. It stimulated me to see what the standard amount of Natrium in tomato juice is, in the supermarkets here. Recalculated to 120 grams, that varies between about 264 and 336 mg.Since we have gardereners growing tomatoes in our family, we can get them for free, about 9 months a year. If I have time, I make large portions tomato juice myself. Then it has only 6 mg of Na per 120 gr, if I'm well. But not everyone is in such a privileged situation, to have time and a sufficient freezer capacity.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: maandag 28 mei 2012 20:18Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, you can also try to find just low Na tomato or vegetable juice in NL. I recently found one in Moscow. It was funny, since there is no such regulation to label sodium in packaged food in Russia, nevertheless I found tomato juice which was labeled with Na < = 200 mg in 120 g. It was only one thing out of hundreds that I inspected in Russian supermarkets. It worked excellent for me, so I stopped to take K supplements immediately. Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:08 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Dr. Grim, Thanks for your contributions!I've don't know any usual brand in NL that produces V8.But it must be available in specialized shop, will continue searching.No, I am not eating licorice (drop in Dutch), since I experienced to have hypertension at 28 yrs. Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Clarence GrimVerzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:56Aan: hyperaldosteronism CC: Clarence GrimOnderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Look for V-8 and read the labels. Let us know what you find there. Are you a licorice eater? The Dutch have the best. Should have both Na and K on the

label. and:Look for the tomato/veggie drink in the market called V-8. But only use the low sodium or spicy version as regular is loaded with Na. One of the best source of K we have found. To convert mg K to mM or mEq K

divide by 40. Goal with DASH is 4700 mg K, 1500 Na. On May 23, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Arend de Haan wrote: In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.Arend Van: Valarie Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na)

V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan My intake was 3.000 mg K.Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K. I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is.Is this part of the DASHing diet?Can I get this in The Netherlands?Thanks for your time and information!Kind regards,Arend de Haan

[Guest guest]

It's very delicious to add pepper and chopped fresh garlic. Try it. And you will not smell garlic if you eat it with tomatoes. Natalia From: Clarence Grim <lowerbp2@...> "hyperaldosteronism " <hyperaldosteronism > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:52 PM Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium

tablets

One can do tomatoes but I think some of the other items in V-8 boost the K. However plain tomatoes are better than low Na V8 as they have less Na. I suspect tomatoes will cost more but may depend on where live. I was brought up to add salt and pepper to sliced tomatoes and some in family also added sugar. I only do pepper now. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 29, 2012, at 11:19, Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...> wrote:

Arend,How many tomatoes of average size correspond to 120 gr of juice? Dr. Grim, why do we are not recommended to eat just a lot of tomatoes? Is it impossible to substitute V8 low sodium with natural tomatoes for everyone? Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:46 AM Subject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

Natalia, Thanks for your message and telling us about your experience. It stimulated me to see what the standard amount of Natrium in tomato juice is, in the supermarkets here. Recalculated to 120 grams, that varies between about 264 and 336 mg.Since we have gardereners growing tomatoes in our family, we can get them for free, about 9 months a year. If I have time, I make large portions tomato juice myself. Then it has only 6 mg of Na per 120 gr, if I'm well. But not everyone is in such a privileged situation, to have time and a sufficient freezer capacity.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: maandag 28 mei 2012 20:18Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, you can also try to find just low Na tomato or vegetable juice in NL. I recently found one in Moscow. It was funny, since there is no such regulation to label sodium in packaged food in Russia, nevertheless I

found tomato juice which was labeled with Na < = 200 mg in 120 g.

It was only one thing out of hundreds that I inspected in Russian supermarkets. It worked excellent for me, so I stopped to take K supplements immediately. Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:08 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Dr. Grim, Thanks for your contributions!I've don't know any usual brand in NL that produces V8.But it must be available in specialized shop, will continue searching.No, I am not eating licorice (drop

in Dutch), since I

experienced to have hypertension at 28 yrs. Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Clarence GrimVerzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:56Aan: hyperaldosteronism CC: Clarence GrimOnderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Look for V-8 and read the labels. Let us know what you find there. Are you

a licorice

eater? The Dutch have the best. Should have both Na and K on the label. and:Look for the tomato/veggie drink in the market called V-8. But only use the low sodium or spicy version as regular is loaded with Na. One of the best source of K we have found. To convert mg K to mM or mEq K divide by 40. Goal with DASH is 4700 mg K, 1500 Na. On May 23, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Arend de Haan wrote: In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol +

3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in

falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.Arend Van: Valarie Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: RE:

stomach damage,

caused by potassium tablets Can you

get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na) V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan My intake was 3.000 mg K.Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets

of 600 mg K. I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is.Is this part of the DASHing diet?

[Guest guest]

I could not eat meat because of sodium infusion. Recently when I visited Moscow, they taught me to marinate meat in beer. They do it for better taste of shish-kabob. I started to do it for lower sodium. I put stake in a beer mixed with pepper and garlic and keep it during a night in a refrigerator. Can recommend it to all of you. Excellent taste, much less sodium, since beer doesn't contain a lot of sodium, and very tender. Natalia From: Clarence Grim

<lowerbp2@...> "hyperaldosteronism " <hyperaldosteronism > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:10 PM Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

Indeed need to eat meat to get B12. Strict vegetarians get B12 def as do their babies. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 29, 2012, at 13:28, Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...> wrote:

Natalia,The type of tomato I use to make juice, is rather fleshy, so there is less water in it, and they are tasty. Normally I use 6 kilograms in 2 saucepans of about 4 liter content. That gives 6 liters of tomato juice, and in special cans I put them in one of our freezers.I think that we should eat more than tomatoes, because we need all types of vitamins and minerals. Varied food of course is important, for instance vitamin B-12 is absent in tomatoes.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: dinsdag 29 mei 2012 18:19Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, How many tomatoes of average size correspond to 120 gr of

juice? Dr. Grim, why do we are not recommended to eat just a lot of tomatoes? Is it impossible to substitute V8 low sodium with natural tomatoes for everyone? Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:46 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Natalia, Thanks for your message and telling us about your experience. It stimulated me to see what the standard amount of Natrium in tomato juice is, in the supermarkets here. Recalculated to 120 grams, that varies between about 264 and 336 mg.Since we have gardereners growing tomatoes in our family, we can get them for free, about 9 months a year. If I have time, I make large portions tomato juice myself. Then it has only 6 mg of Na per 120 gr, if I'm well. But not everyone is in such a privileged situation, to have time and a sufficient freezer capacity.Arend Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Natalia KamnevaVerzonden: maandag 28 mei 2012 20:18Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Arend, you can also try to find just low Na tomato or vegetable juice in NL. I recently found one in Moscow. It was funny, since there is no such regulation to label sodium in packaged food in Russia, nevertheless I found tomato juice which was labeled with Na < = 200 mg in 120 g. It was only one thing out of hundreds that I inspected in Russian supermarkets. It worked excellent for me, so I stopped to

take K supplements immediately. Natalia From: Arend de Haan <arenddehaan@...>hyperaldosteronism Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:08 AMSubject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Dr. Grim, Thanks for your contributions!I've don't know any usual brand in NL that produces V8.But it must be available in specialized shop, will continue searching.No, I am not eating licorice (drop in Dutch), since I experienced to have hypertension at 28 yrs. Van: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] Namens Clarence GrimVerzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:56Aan: hyperaldosteronism CC: Clarence GrimOnderwerp: Re:

stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Look for V-8 and read the labels. Let us know what you find there. Are you a licorice eater? The

Dutch have the best. Should have both Na and K on the

label. and:Look for the tomato/veggie drink in the market called V-8. But only use the low sodium or spicy version as regular is loaded with Na. One of the best source of K we have found. To convert mg K to mM or mEq K

divide by 40. Goal with DASH is 4700 mg K, 1500 Na. On May 23, 2012, at 12:46 PM, Arend de Haan wrote: In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.Arend Van: Valarie Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na)

V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results? Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan My intake was 3.000 mg K.Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K. I assume this gives

me 40 mEq of K.I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is.Is this part of the DASHing diet?Can I get this in The Netherlands?Thanks for your time and information!Kind regards,Arend de Haan

[Guest guest]

Beer batter and marinated chicken is uhm uhm good too. The alcohol is cooked off, but you're right, less sodium than say, barbecue sauce

In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.Arend

Van: Valarie Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05Aan: hyperaldosteronism Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na) V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results?

Val

From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan

My intake was 3.000 mg K.

Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K. I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is.

Is this part of the DASHing diet?

Can I get this in The Netherlands?Thanks for your time and information!Kind regards,

Arend de Haan

[Guest guest]

Best barbeque sauce ever.  15 mg sodium/ouncehttp://healthyheartmarket.com/lumtaylorsbarbequesauce.aspx I buy a case (12) at a time.  We make barbeque beef in the crock pot with onions, red peppers and this sauce. (Natalia, it has beer in it)  Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham Beer batter and marinated chicken is uhm uhm good too. The alcohol is cooked off, but you're right, less sodium than say, barbecue sauceFrom: Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...> I could not eat meat because of sodium infusion. Recently when I visited Moscow, they taught me to marinate meat in beer. They do it for better taste of shish-kabob. I started to do it for lower sodium. I put stake in a beer mixed with pepper and garlic and keep it during a night in a refrigerator. Can recommend it to all of you. Excellent taste, much less sodium, since beer doesn't contain a lot of sodium, and very tender. Natalia

[Guest guest]

If meat is infused with salt what does the beer do to remove it?

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> In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low

sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily

medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K.

Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately

resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs,

6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many

vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.

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> Van: Valarie

> Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05

> Aan: hyperaldosteronism

> Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium

tablets

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> Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands?  If so, you should be able to get

low sodium (Na) V-8.  Why are you taking so much potassium (K)?  Are you

DASHing?  Are you on HTN medicines?  Where are your test results?

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> From: hyperaldosteronism

[mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan

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> My intake was 3.000 mg K.

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> Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K.

> I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.

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> I don't understand what " a cup of low Na V-8 " is.

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> Is this part of the DASHing diet?

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> Can I get this in The Netherlands?

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> Thanks for your time and information!

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> Kind regards,

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> Arend de Haan

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[Guest guest]

If you but prepared batter mix it will have salt in it. What do you use?CE Grim MDOn May 30, 2012, at 6:54 AM, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA wrote: If meat is infused with salt what does the beer do to remove it? > > >  > > > >  > > > > >  > > > > In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories. > > Arend > > >  > > > > > Van: Valarie > Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05 > Aan: hyperaldosteronism > Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets > > >  > > >  > > > > > > > Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na) V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results? > > >  > > > > Val > > >  > > > From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan >  > > > > > > > My intake was 3.000 mg K. > > > Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K. > I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K. > > I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is. > > > Is this part of the DASHing diet? > > > Can I get this in The Netherlands? > > Thanks for your time and information! > > Kind regards, > > > Arend de Haan > > >  > > > >  > > >  > >  >  >

[Guest guest]

I hope the same thing that soaking in water, since beer almost doesn't contain sodium. That's what salesmen recommend to do with meat: soak or boil it before using. From: Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA <georgewbill@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:54 AM Subject: Re:

stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

If meat is infused with salt what does the beer do to remove it?

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> In The Netherlands indeed one can purchase V-8, I'm not sure if it is low sodium, shall ask that company in The Hague about this aspect. My daily medication in 300 mg spiro + 75 mg atenolol + 30 mg propranolol + 3.000 mg K. Testresults: K in blood between 3.5 and 4.0 mmol/l. Taking less K immediately resukts in falling down of K value in blood tot below 3.0 mmol/l. Male, 61 yrs, 6 feet, 92 kg. No, I am not Dashing, but I'm following a similar diet with many vegetables and fruits, enough protein, hardly any fat and low calories.

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> Arend

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> Van: Valarie

> Verzonden: woensdag 23 mei 2012 19:05

> Aan: hyperaldosteronism

> Onderwerp: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

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> Â

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> Â

>

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> Can you get V-8 juice in the Netherlands? If so, you should be able to get low sodium (Na) V-8. Why are you taking so much potassium (K)? Are you DASHing? Are you on HTN medicines? Where are your test results?

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> Val

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> From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Arend de Haan

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>

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> My intake was 3.000 mg K.

>

>

> Until 2006 in 3 tablets of 1,000 mg K, since that year 5 tablets of 600 mg K.

> I assume this gives me 40 mEq of K.

>

> I don't understand what "a cup of low Na V-8" is.

>

>

> Is this part of the DASHing diet?

>

>

> Can I get this in The Netherlands?

>

> Thanks for your time and information!

>

> Kind regards,

>

>

> Arend de Haan

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> Â

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>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Val, not for me: too much sugar - 27g. But thanks for an advice to add red peppers and onion. Will do it. With beer:-) Natalia From: Valarie <val@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:19 PM Subject: RE: stomach damage, caused by

potassium tablets

Best barbeque sauce ever. 15 mg sodium/ouncehttp://healthyheartmarket.com/lumtaylorsbarbequesauce.aspx I buy a case (12) at a time. We make barbeque beef in the crock pot with onions, red peppers and this sauce. (Natalia, it has beer in it)

Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham Beer batter and marinated chicken is uhm uhm good too. The alcohol is cooked off, but you're right, less sodium than say, barbecue sauceFrom: Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...> I could not eat meat because of sodium infusion. Recently when I visited Moscow, they taught me to marinate meat in beer. They do it for better taste of shish-kabob. I started to do it for lower sodium. I put stake in a beer mixed with pepper and garlic and keep it during a night in a refrigerator. Can recommend it to all of

you. Excellent taste, much less sodium, since beer doesn't contain a lot of sodium, and very tender. Natalia

[Guest guest]

Natalia, I do not understand why you can't get uninfused meat?  Walmart has uninfused ground buffalo.  Balsamic vinegar is also a good meat tenderizer. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Natalia Kamneva Sorry, Val, not for me: too much sugar - 27g. But thanks for an advice to add red peppers and onion. Will do it. With beer:-) Natalia

[Guest guest]

Sounds good to me tho. CE Grim MDOn May 30, 2012, at 1:19 PM, Natalia Kamneva wrote: Sorry, Val, not for me: too much sugar - 27g. But thanks for an advice to add red peppers and onion. Will do it. With beer:-) Natalia From: Valarie <val@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:19 PM Subject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Best barbeque sauce ever. 15 mg sodium/ouncehttp://healthyheartmarket.com/lumtaylorsbarbequesauce.aspx I buy a case (12) at a time. We make barbeque beef in the crock pot with onions, red peppers and this sauce. (Natalia, it has beer in it) Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Bingham Beer batter and marinated chicken is uhm uhm good too. The alcohol is cooked off, but you're right, less sodium than say, barbecue sauceFrom: Natalia Kamneva <natalia_kamneva@...> I could not eat meat because of sodium infusion. Recently when I visited Moscow, they taught me to marinate meat in beer. They do it for better taste of shish-kabob. I started to do it for lower sodium. I put stake in a beer mixed with pepper and garlic and keep it during a night in a refrigerator. Can recommend it to all of you. Excellent taste, much less sodium, since beer doesn't contain a lot of sodium, and very tender. Natalia

[Guest guest]

, as to your comment that you can't imagine any doctor not having an understanding of the relationship between diet and health.......The general understanding of that relationship is neatly pre-packaged and reiterated. No one thinks for themselves. Every doctor I have seen, with the exception of my current cardiologist, parrots the phrase "eat a low fat diet and lose weight then your blood pressure will come down." Usually these doctors are themselves obese. They would stop listening to me when I began to tell them of my experience with weight and hbp, that I wasn't overweight until I was put on various meds to control my hbp. I found out on my own that all bp meds raise blood sugar. My cardiologist is the very first medical doctor I have encountered in my life, and I have been to many for

myself and a child, who ever mentioned DASH, or the importance of diet sourced potassium, or the fact that my weight was not my fault. And, not to be snarky but just making an observation, it appears to be an employment requirement around here that all nurses be morbidly obese.

[Guest guest]

And you don't read the newspaper or listen to TV etc. They mention the DASH often for last 10 years.CE Grim MDOn May 31, 2012, at 5:21 AM, Pnb B wrote: , as to your comment that you can't imagine any doctor not having an understanding of the relationship between diet and health.......The general understanding of that relationship is neatly pre-packaged and reiterated. No one thinks for themselves. Every doctor I have seen, with the exception of my current cardiologist, parrots the phrase "eat a low fat diet and lose weight then your blood pressure will come down." Usually these doctors are themselves obese. They would stop listening to me when I began to tell them of my experience with weight and hbp, that I wasn't overweight until I was put on various meds to control my hbp. I found out on my own that all bp meds raise blood sugar. My cardiologist is the very first medical doctor I have encountered in my life, and I have been to many for myself and a child, who ever mentioned DASH, or the importance of diet sourced potassium, or the fact that my weight was not my fault. And, not to be snarky but just making an observation, it appears to be an employment requirement around here that all nurses be morbidly obese.

[Guest guest]

You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the

standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do.

>

> , as to your comment that you can't imagine any doctor not having an

understanding of the relationship between diet and health.......

>

> The general understanding of that relationship is neatly pre-packaged and

reiterated. No one thinks for themselves. Every doctor I have seen, with the

exception of my current cardiologist, parrots the phrase " eat a low fat diet and

lose weight then your blood pressure will come down. " Usually these doctors are

themselves obese. They would stop listening to me when I began to tell them of

my experience with weight and hbp, that I wasn't overweight until I was put on

various meds to control my hbp. I found out on my own that all bp meds raise

blood sugar. My cardiologist is the very first medical doctor I have encountered

in my life, and I have been to many for myself and a child, who ever mentioned

DASH, or the importance of diet sourced potassium, or the fact that my weight

was not my fault. 

>

> And, not to be snarky but just making an observation, it appears to be an

employment requirement around here that all nurses be morbidly obese. 

>

[Guest guest]

This is happening a lot lately because we are almost missing CLINICIANS doctors.

Occasionally you would find an " old school " doctor who actually TOUCHES you,

asks about the symptoms and try to correlates the clinical and

biochemical/imaging.

Most of the doctors I've seen they only listen to your heart, types your

symptoms into a computer and order blood tests. They even ignore out of range

lab tests because " they are not elevated/low enough " and

usually that is where the clue of your disease is.

Even when your are sick with symptoms in their office if their lab workup is

" normal " , they think you are healthy with some " mental issue " .

>

> You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the

standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do.

>

[Guest guest]

Val, first of all our Walmart doesn't have it. You are right, ground beef usually contains much less sodium, but what if I want some steak ? :-) I am not absolutely sure that the problem that I have with meat is related only to sodium, but I definitely feel terrible after eating meat. That's why I am looking for a mean to somehow eliminate any inclusions. Soaking in beer seems a good decision for me. NataliaFrom: Valarie

<val@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets

Natalia, I do not understand why you can't get uninfused meat? Walmart has uninfused ground buffalo. Balsamic vinegar is also a good meat tenderizer. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Natalia Kamneva Sorry, Val, not for me: too much sugar - 27g. But thanks for an advice to add red peppers and onion. Will do it. With beer:-) Natalia

[Guest guest]

Ah but then don't drink or use the beer to cook with.There must be something written on our long etc to soak meat to get sodium out.A local butcher may have untreated meat to test to see if it is the salt of not.CE Grim MDOn May 31, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Natalia Kamneva wrote: Val, first of all our Walmart doesn't have it. You are right, ground beef usually contains much less sodium, but what if I want some steak ? :-) I am not absolutely sure that the problem that I have with meat is related only to sodium, but I definitely feel terrible after eating meat. That's why I am looking for a mean to somehow eliminate any inclusions. Soaking in beer seems a good decision for me. NataliaFrom: Valarie <val@...> hyperaldosteronism Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:02 PM Subject: RE: stomach damage, caused by potassium tablets Natalia, I do not understand why you can't get uninfused meat? Walmart has uninfused ground buffalo. Balsamic vinegar is also a good meat tenderizer. Val From: hyperaldosteronism [mailto:hyperaldosteronism ] On Behalf Of Natalia Kamneva Sorry, Val, not for me: too much sugar - 27g. But thanks for an advice to add red peppers and onion. Will do it. With beer:-) Natalia

[Guest guest]

One of the biggest issues is the rapidity they "decide" the path to go down when a patient presents a problem in the form of a complaint. Once something is in the clinicians mind, and I am talking about family practice (general medicine, IM, etc) and not just those who tend to automatically dx fast like ER and urgent care, that they quickly direct the conversation to where they want it to lead with a kind of "I'll ask the questions and when you get off what I am thinking I will interrupt and put you back to what I want it to be." I don't know what we'd term it officially but I call it "directed conversation"

There may be, no, there usually are, MANY clues in a good patient accounting of how they feel and what the history is, and yet the patient gets to say a little, then the clinicians mind leans to something, and then any open ended complaints or signs or symptoms by the patient is muted by the medical provider.

To me, that is one of the worst problems, and this even happens on a first visit where one used to have a little more time and a good report was taken by the doc back in the day. It is both intentional and unitnentional as it just becomes a habit after a while. Still the fine art of diagnosis seems to be gone - diagnosing, which in my little mind IS the culmination of why I went into medicine at all - okay that's a lie kind of, I became an EMT at age back in '85 because it was a free class and I didn't know what else to do at the time, but as I went on it was finding and trying to fix the problem that was appealing and the apex of helping someone else.

But especially in general practice, which in America officially includes family medicine, OB/GYN. and Internal medicine, we reward procedures and number of patients seen, instead of outcomes and patient centered care. We do this in terms of bonus payments and code modifiers and the like which loosely translated is "all about the benjamins".

I am personally not for outcome based rewards in medicine or education because I believe that when $ is involved it only opens up to fraud (a doctor can always "document" the patient had a lower cholesterol, or that their A1C on the office A1C machine was 5.5 when it was really 8.5 in order to show positive outcomes). Teachers, like this incident recently in Florida where bonuses came to those teachers who's students had better test scores and the teachers were fixing the scores to make them better (actually answering questions and changing some answers!) so I think it is no better. But when we reward for procedures and speed (number of patients) this favors extensively specialists who can focus on one single issue - helping the speed aspect - and they are more naturally procedure based, so medicare and medicaid bonuses are larger. We need to make family providers content to take good reports and histories and LISTEN to their patients.

I

From: lvasiliu@... <lvasiliu@...>Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tabletshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 1:03 PM

This is happening a lot lately because we are almost missing CLINICIANS doctors. Occasionally you would find an "old school" doctor who actually TOUCHES you, asks about the symptoms and try to correlates the clinical and biochemical/imaging.Most of the doctors I've seen they only listen to your heart, types your symptoms into a computer and order blood tests. They even ignore out of range lab tests because "they are not elevated/low enough" andusually that is where the clue of your disease is.Even when your are sick with symptoms in their office if their lab workup is "normal", they think you are healthy with some "mental issue".>> You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do. >

[Guest guest]

They do and they get this in school, to what extent I do not know, much more than PA's and NP's do, but just like the tendency to discount a "borderline" potassium as nothing, in spite of a myriad of symptoms, many pay little attention to the holistic health aspect of nutrition beyond telling a patient to lower fat and cholesterol or that losing weight will help the patient. I personally was never told of, mentioned to, or anything diet wise (NEVER told of DASH by anyone in the 7+ years I had the dangerous hypertension). I was connected to the AHA back then as ACLS instructor trainer, and I had heard of DASH, but I never talked about with my patients. When my docs didn't put any emphasis on it, I just followed suit. Not right on my part, but I have learned the hard way on a personal level (at least my lesson - health wise, not professionally

yet, has a positive outcome).

Honestly even seeing the same doc in the ER numerous times over a 2 year span and getting potassium every single time ( same doc at least 5 times or more, the same ER many more times than that) no one ever addressed a low potassium, though they replaced it, no one suggested a cause, or a dietary fix, even my personal doc, who at the time I was paying my hard earned cash to see as I had no insurance. I recall vividly asking him once why "I keep spilling my potassium?" and got a mere shrug of the shoulders and some labs ordered. Never renin and aldo though.

From: Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tabletshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 12:10 PM

You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do. >> , as to your comment that you can't imagine any doctor not having an understanding of the relationship between diet and health.......> > The general understanding of that relationship is neatly pre-packaged and reiterated. No one thinks for themselves. Every doctor I have seen, with the exception of my current cardiologist, parrots the phrase "eat a low fat diet and lose weight then your blood pressure will come down." Usually these doctors are themselves obese. They would stop listening to me when I began to tell

them of my experience with weight and hbp, that I wasn't overweight until I was put on various meds to control my hbp. I found out on my own that all bp meds raise blood sugar. My cardiologist is the very first medical doctor I have encountered in my life, and I have been to many for myself and a child, who ever mentioned DASH, or the importance of diet sourced potassium, or the fact that my weight was not my fault. > > And, not to be snarky but just making an observation, it appears to be an employment requirement around here that all nurses be morbidly obese. >

[Guest guest]

And how Do we do that?Maybe pay more that for the procedures drs. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn May 31, 2012, at 19:06, Bingham <jlkbbk2003@...> wrote:

One of the biggest issues is the rapidity they "decide" the path to go down when a patient presents a problem in the form of a complaint. Once something is in the clinicians mind, and I am talking about family practice (general medicine, IM, etc) and not just those who tend to automatically dx fast like ER and urgent care, that they quickly direct the conversation to where they want it to lead with a kind of "I'll ask the questions and when you get off what I am thinking I will interrupt and put you back to what I want it to be." I don't know what we'd term it officially but I call it "directed conversation"

There may be, no, there usually are, MANY clues in a good patient accounting of how they feel and what the history is, and yet the patient gets to say a little, then the clinicians mind leans to something, and then any open ended complaints or signs or symptoms by the patient is muted by the medical provider.

To me, that is one of the worst problems, and this even happens on a first visit where one used to have a little more time and a good report was taken by the doc back in the day. It is both intentional and unitnentional as it just becomes a habit after a while. Still the fine art of diagnosis seems to be gone - diagnosing, which in my little mind IS the culmination of why I went into medicine at all - okay that's a lie kind of, I became an EMT at age back in '85 because it was a free class and I didn't know what else to do at the time, but as I went on it was finding and trying to fix the problem that was appealing and the apex of helping someone else.

But especially in general practice, which in America officially includes family medicine, OB/GYN. and Internal medicine, we reward procedures and number of patients seen, instead of outcomes and patient centered care. We do this in terms of bonus payments and code modifiers and the like which loosely translated is "all about the benjamins".

I am personally not for outcome based rewards in medicine or education because I believe that when $ is involved it only opens up to fraud (a doctor can always "document" the patient had a lower cholesterol, or that their A1C on the office A1C machine was 5.5 when it was really 8.5 in order to show positive outcomes). Teachers, like this incident recently in Florida where bonuses came to those teachers who's students had better test scores and the teachers were fixing the scores to make them better (actually answering questions and changing some answers!) so I think it is no better. But when we reward for procedures and speed (number of patients) this favors extensively specialists who can focus on one single issue - helping the speed aspect - and they are more naturally procedure based, so medicare and medicaid bonuses are larger. We need to make family providers content to take good reports and histories and LISTEN to their patients.

I

From: lvasiliu@... <lvasiliu@...>Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tabletshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 1:03 PM

This is happening a lot lately because we are almost missing CLINICIANS doctors. Occasionally you would find an "old school" doctor who actually TOUCHES you, asks about the symptoms and try to correlates the clinical and biochemical/imaging.Most of the doctors I've seen they only listen to your heart, types your symptoms into a computer and order blood tests. They even ignore out of range lab tests because "they are not elevated/low enough" andusually that is where the clue of your disease is.Even when your are sick with symptoms in their office if their lab workup is "normal", they think you are healthy with some "mental issue".>> You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do. >

[Guest guest]

I just had the question and the problem....not the answer yet....

From: lvasiliu@... <lvasiliu@...>Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tabletshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 1:03 PM

This is happening a lot lately because we are almost missing CLINICIANS doctors. Occasionally you would find an "old school" doctor who actually TOUCHES you, asks about the symptoms and try to correlates the clinical and biochemical/imaging.Most of the doctors I've seen they only listen to your heart, types your symptoms into a computer and order blood tests. They even ignore out of range lab tests because "they are not elevated/low enough" andusually that is where the clue of your disease is.Even when your are sick with symptoms in their office if their lab workup is "normal", they think you are healthy with some "mental issue".>> You are right about Dr. not thinking for them

selves. If they do all the standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do. >

[Guest guest]

How about it being based on how many patient get right DX.

> > >

> > > You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the

standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do.

> > >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That would work

From: Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA <georgewbill@...>Subject: Re: stomach damage, caused by potassium tabletshyperaldosteronism Date: Thursday, May 31, 2012, 8:06 PM

How about it being based on how many patient get right DX. > > >> > > You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do. > > > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

My guess is we will never see payment based on how well patients does.

> > > >

> > > > You are right about Dr. not thinking for them selves. If they do all the

standard test and all are so called normal that is all the know what to do.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>