Guest guest Report post Posted February 10, 2001 Yes. More than 2 mg per pound of kid will eventually get there. It takes a couple of months. Most of the " biochemists " I've seen people consult with give them bad advice that hurts their kids. There is no substitute for taking personal responsibility to figure things out as best you can, and then adding a bit of expert advice rather than depending on the experts to do it for you. I recently saw a case where a well known " biochemist " who does this kind of thing prescribed whey protein for someone with vastly elevated plasma cysteine who was mercury toxic. Luckily she didn't take it - my guess is it would have killed her. Andy > Is it possible to give too much zinc? Can one become zinc toxic? If so, what might be some indicators? > > Does anyone consult with a biochemist, to help figure out the whole supplement puzzle? > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 6, 2001 Is there any reason why you choose to do just ALA? Just curious. Thanks. Vicky srkatemac@... wrote: > > I also have a question about zinc. I have read that it's best absorbed > on an empty stomach, but an adult (I think it was Moira?) noted zinc > on an empty stomach was painful to take. When we gave it at bedtime, > he couldn't settle down for sleep. Now when we give it at daytime, > it's like he's been propelled from a sling shot, just a wild man for > about 20 minutes. Splitting the dose up through the day hasn't > helped, just makes him wild more times. Any thoughts? > Also, about 30 minutes after ALA he gets a little flushed, and it > lasts for about an hour. Is this okay? His face is " bumpy " throughout > the 3 day cycle on, but no rash anywhere else. He is on Nystatin, and > grapefruit extract for yeast. Is this rash from yeast, metals, or > what? > He is (5 years old), pretty limited verbally, but definitely better > on chelation days, noticeable just 3 weeks into this, using ALA, only. > The day after chelation, he gets a medicine cup from the drawer, > brings it to me, and asks " medicine, please Momma " ...I have to wonder > if he feels better on it, and can actually make a connection, or if > this is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyways, thanks for this > list, it's been an endless source of help. Kate. > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 6, 2001 In a message dated 3/6/2001 8:52:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, srkatemac@... writes: Kate: I don't know about the rash I haven't found any answers whether this is connected or not. . The connection to your son feeling better, I don't think it is coincidence. My son also seemed to want his medicine. Weird. No matter how one disguised any kind of vitamin or medicine he always knew and would just flat out refuse. The fact that he wanted it made me think the same thing as you. It made him feel better , he wanted more. He has done pretty good on this off cycle as well. . I used the DMSA alone The day after chelation, he gets a medicine cup from the drawer, brings it to me, and asks "medicine, please Momma"...I have to wonder if he feels better on it, and can actually make a connection, or if this is just wishful thinking on my part. Anyway, thanks for this list, it's been an endless source of help. Kate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 8, 2001 , Welcome to the list. Mercury messes w/ zinc. I stand 5'6 " and currently weigh 100-110 and never weighed over 120. At my most mercury toxic (10 yrs. ago) I weighed only 82 lbs and had strangers stop me on the street and say, " You have AIDS don't you? " and family and friends insinuate that I must have anorexia. My parents sent me bathroom scales for Christmas that year. Studies show that many/most w/anorexia have zinc deficiency (from heavy metal toxicity?) Hal Huggins' book " It's All in Your Head " says that people with low zinc should avoid sugar, alcohol, and caffeine. Cadmium can also block zinc. Zinc plays an important role in the health of the skin, the control of glucose, and in hormones, as well as the healthy function of all 5 senses, and prevention of birth defects. " Mercury Detoxification " by Sam & Ziff and Mats Hanson mentions that high fiber diets may have high phytic acid which binds zinc and may result in a deficiency. They mention the following as a simple home test of zinc deficiency. Specific liquid zinc products exist (available at health food stores or through supplement companies) for the zinc taste test. One may also make the solution using 100 miligrams of zinc sulfate powder in 100 milliliters of water. Make it fresh in glass or plastic container and use promptly. Take a tspn of the liquid solution into your mouth w/out swallowing. If you experience a " furry " , unpleasant taste immediately or w/in 5-10 seconds, you have adequate zinc level. If you do not get the looked-for zinc taste w/in a inute but instead it tastes like water, you have a zinc deficiency and need supplementation. The authors also state that low zinc levels in the urine indicates that your body does not get enough. Hope this info helps. S -------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know much about zinc? I am curious about zinc as I have always had trouble gaining weight keeping weight on etc. Is it possible that I h ave a zinc deficiency? Could it be related? How does one determine if the y are zinc deficient? Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, I am new. zinc I also have a question about zinc. I have read that it's best absorbed on an empty stomach, but an adult (I think it was Moira?) noted zinc on an empty stomach was painful to take. <snip> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 8, 2001 Does anyone know much about zinc? I am curious about zinc as I have always had trouble gaining weight keeping weight on etc. Is it possible that I have a zinc deficiency? Could it be related? How does one determine if they are zinc deficient? Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, I am new. [ ] zinc Kate:No! I said that about b vitamins. I'm taking zinc now,and no problems with in. In fact, it is in teeny tinycapsules, which I like (easy to swallow).MoriaRESPONDING TO:Message: 14 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:50:46 -0000 From: srkatemac@...Subject: zincI also have a question about zinc. I have read that it's best absorbedon an empty stomach, but an adult (I think it was Moira?) noted zinc on an empty stomach was painful to take. <snip> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 8, 2001 I've found with me and my kids, that if a zinc lozenge tastes good....you need it. When the lozenges start to taste bad, you have enough. You can't taste the zinc if you need it. getting my son's zinc levels up also increased his appetite. Now he's a bottomless pit!! l_shepard wrote: > , > Welcome to the list. Mercury messes w/ zinc. I stand 5'6 " and currently weigh 100-110 and never weighed over 120. At my most mercury toxic (10 yrs. ago) I weighed only 82 lbs and had strangers stop me on the street and say, " You have AIDS don't you? " and family and friends insinuate that I must have anorexia. My parents sent me bathroom scales for Christmas that year. Studies show that many/most w/anorexia have zinc deficiency (from heavy metal toxicity?) > > Hal Huggins' book " It's All in Your Head " says that people with low zinc should avoid sugar, alcohol, and caffeine. Cadmium can also block zinc. Zinc plays an important role in the health of the skin, the control of glucose, and in hormones, as well as the healthy function of all 5 senses, and prevention of birth defects. > > " Mercury Detoxification " by Sam & Ziff and Mats Hanson mentions that high fiber diets may have high phytic acid which binds zinc and may result in a deficiency. They mention the following as a simple home test of zinc deficiency. Specific liquid zinc products exist (available at health food stores or through supplement companies) for the zinc taste test. One may also make the solution using 100 miligrams of zinc sulfate powder in 100 milliliters of water. Make it fresh in glass or plastic container and use promptly. Take a tspn of the liquid solution into your mouth w/out swallowing. If you experience a " furry " , unpleasant taste immediately or w/in 5-10 seconds, you have adequate zinc level. If you do not get the looked-for zinc taste w/in a inute but instead it tastes like water, you have a zinc deficiency and need supplementation. > > The authors also state that low zinc levels in the urine indicates that your body does not get enough. > > Hope this info helps. > S > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > Does anyone know much about zinc? I am curious about zinc as I have always > had trouble gaining weight keeping weight on etc. Is it possible that I h ave a zinc deficiency? Could it be related? How does one determine if the y are zinc deficient? Please forgive me if this has been discussed before, > I am new. > zinc > > I also have a question about zinc. I have read that it's best absorbed > on an empty stomach, but an adult (I think it was Moira?) noted zinc > on an empty stomach was painful to take. > <snip> > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted March 18, 2002 , Zinc makes my son wet, too. Everything makes my son wet. As a matter of fact, the only supplement I have him on right now is enzymes because of the wetting problem. I'm hoping to try probiotics again soon to see if he'll do any better with them. I would try reducing the dose before completely giving up. > > > Hello, > > ever since I started my son on zinc he seems to be urinating a whole > lot more. > Has anyone else experienced this? > He is almost 10 and has started to wet his pants at school. > He has been toilet trainned since he's been 3. > We have had occasional accidents but not like this. > Does anyone have any ideas. > He is not experiencing any burning upon urination. > He is not hot. > His appetite is voracious as usual. > Any ideas? > . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 2, 2002 > I'm starting my son on some extra zinc & his nutritionist sent us the liquid by Kirkman's. It has raspberry flavoring in it. Can I use the No-Fenol at the same time - like 1/2 cap with it? Yes, this should be fine. 1/2 cap sounds good. Hopefully it will work. Please post if all goes well...and even if it doesn't. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2002 Dear Folks, Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2002 zinc and copper are antagonistic, high copper lowers zinc and vice versa. zinc also inducts the metalliothonein protein which may assit with metals removal also zinc taken before bed can help with sleep it can assist with excema if too much is taken apart from depressing copper levels i think it can also impare immune function copper leaches quite readily into water in copper pipes, would pay to run the tap for a short time if getting drinking water from a copper pipe > Dear Folks, > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 3, 2002 In a message dated 03/05/2002 23:11:31 GMT Daylight Time, JBelle456@... writes: > Dear Folks, > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: > > > Hi Its supposed to be good for most of our kids. Some can have a reaction to introduction of Zinc that could be dumping of copper. Its all in my head but having trouble writing any sense. The Pffiefer website has alot about this - its all linked to the MT disfunction which seems to be affecting our kids ability to detox metals. Sorry I'm not more helpful this morning (up twice in night for chelation dose!) Mandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 > Dear Folks, > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: > > > Zinc has a reputation for being helpful I think, and we are including it in our son's supplementation. I believe it can inhibit copper absorption; perhaps that is the connection you are thinking of. The body's copper requirement is tiny, so I'm not sure how significant the inhibition of copper absorption is. I tend to think cautiously about supplementing minerals like copper that can be toxic in even very small doses. Tony. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > connection with copper. Hi , Zinc is very good for our kids, especially when the problem are the metals. Zinc induces the metallothionein protein, which stores the metals that our body needs for different processes. The metallothionein is regulated by the body's zinc levels. Your body needs a lot of zinc around for this protein to work well. When the metallothionein works ok, the body can store the metals (even heavy metals) that we need to use later, while having the plasma levels low, so safe, because this prevents oxidative stress (you don't want those metals everywhere, doing damages). So the more of this protein you can induce, less heavy metals you have around doing damages. This is also why zinc reduces copper levels, because more metallothionein means more copper stored in there and excreted. If I understand this processes well, I guess this is ok only for recent exposure to metals (in the diet or other ways). Taking zinc will only help your body to deal with day-by-day exposure to metals. Hope this makes sense... Valentina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 > I'm not sure how significant the inhibition of > copper absorption is. It is significant when you have a mercury problem, because copper is synergistic with mercury... So if you have high copper you will practically be more toxic than you should be Copper toxicity is very similar to mercury toxicity. It's my understanding that when you're mercury toxic, it is always better to be low-low copper. Valentina Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 > Dear Folks, > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is supposed to > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: > Zinc does help with high copper levels, which other people have described for you. Zinc also helps some kids who have " oral behaviors " , like if the child chews on everything. Giving zinc has caused some kids to stop that behavior. Dana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 Thanks for the update on zinc! [ ] Re: Zinc > > > zinc and copper are antagonistic, high copper lowers zinc and vice > versa. > > zinc also inducts the metalliothonein protein which may assit with > metals removal > > also zinc taken before bed can help with sleep > > it can assist with excema > > if too much is taken apart from depressing copper levels i think it > can also impare immune function > > copper leaches quite readily into water in copper pipes, would pay to > run the tap for a short time if getting drinking water from a copper > pipe > > > > > Dear Folks, > > Can someone clarify for me whether zinc supplementation is > supposed to > > be good or bad for our kids....remember reading something about its > > connection with copper. Any idea what I'm talking about????? (: > > > > > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted May 4, 2002 Thanks to all of you who have educated me on the usefulness of zinc. Sounds like its something I can safely add to my daughter's regime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted November 4, 2002 > How much zinc should a 32 pound chelating child take? 50 mg a day in divided doses. >Can you guve too much? Yes. > At the elemental hair analysis, zinc was very low at 50 (range 105-174). that > was in december 2001. in august of this year her red blood cell elements from > DDI showed zinc at 10.4 (range 8-14.5). i have her on 20 mg per day. is that > enough???Keri > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been remov Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 4, 2002 Hi I have heard zinc causing hyper when copper is high, one is moving the other level down a bit. Most get round this by reducing the dose and build up very gradually. Some types of zinc are tolerated better than others for some kids. HTH Mandi in UK > I recently had some blood testing done on my 10yo child. Most tihngs > were within range except for Zinc which was well below normal range. > (copper was upper normal).I started giving him Zinc 20mg at night but > it seems to make him a bit hyper. I want to continue Zinc > supplementation as it is such an important mineral so I wondering if > anyone has any suggestions about how/when to give it - with or > without food, any supplements it shouldn't be given with, time of day > it should be given etc. Has anyone seen hyperness with Zinc initially > and then seen it settled down. > I would appreciate any comments > Thank you > > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 4, 2002 My son, 5 now, has tested very low in zinc, only slightly high in copper. He has dreadful reactions to even slight amounts of oral zinc. Any time I get him over 6-8 mg oral zinc, he becomes extremely hyperactive. I don't know why - could be due to the moving out of copper, but not sure. Could also be that 6-8 mg zinc is close to the RDA zinc for his size and he can't handle any more. I have tried about 8 different brands and formulations of zinc. Supposedly zinc picolinate is easiest on the stomach. None made a difference for my son. He would get so hyper he would begin to shake his left hand. I have also tried three formulations of transdermal zinc, and seem to be able to get farther with them...or else not as much zinc is getting absorbed as one would be led to believe. However, transdermal zinc - at first - caused a skin irritation where it was applied, no matter which of the three formulations I used. Now I'm able to use the transdermal zinc, at least two of the types, with no local irritation, and am using higher doses. A recent blood test finally showed my son's zinc levels at a low normal. Dr Walsh had the following comments on my son's situation, which I found interesting, and may help you, Debbie Severely zinc-deficient children often get much worse if they take oral zinc alone. Augmenting nutrients such as B-6, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Manganese, etc. are needed to get this done right. Also, it's a good idea to avoid zinc supplementation in the am, especially with a sensitive child. There was a recent article out of Russia that showed that blood Zn levels could be dramatically increased using a zinc sulfate cream. We are more certain of effective absorption in the case of the Zn sulfate than any other transdermal we're testing. Any Zn therapy applied to a person with an overload of Cu is likely to cause temporary itching. There is a lot of Zn, Cu, and metallothionein in skin and many patients report itching and other minor TEMPORARY side-effects during the chemical transition as the metals are normalized. You are the best person to judge if the itching is serious enough to reduce dosage. It's a matter of balancing (a) rate of Zn loading and ( discomfort. By the way, hyperactivity is associated with elevated norepinephrine & adrenaline levels, both of which are directly affected by Cu level in blood. Normalizing Cu involves the Cu departing via the blood stream. Effective treatment to remove excess Cu usually involves temporary hyperactivity as the metals are balanced. We've been observing this phenomenon (increased hyperactivity during early Cu elimination) for more than 25 years. The tendency for hyperactivity often disappears once the Cu is normalized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Zinc should be given with food otherwise it can cause vomiting. I do not know exactly about the time of the day, but I it's better to split it to several doses. I think when your son tolerates it more you can increase the dosage, I give 40-50 mg to my 3 year old. Some taurine also helps to move the copper out and has some (not very significant) relaxing effect on brain, so you can try some taurine in the evening. Margaret > I recently had some blood testing done on my 10yo child. Most tihngs > were within range except for Zinc which was well below normal range. > (copper was upper normal).I started giving him Zinc 20mg at night but > it seems to make him a bit hyper. I want to continue Zinc > supplementation as it is such an important mineral so I wondering if > anyone has any suggestions about how/when to give it - with or > without food, any supplements it shouldn't be given with, time of day > it should be given etc. Has anyone seen hyperness with Zinc initially > and then seen it settled down. > I would appreciate any comments > Thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 5, 2002 Hi: I give zinc and taurine in the morning along with other supps before school- as it helps with school stress and anxiety. My son is also 10. Re: Zinc Zinc should be given with food otherwise it can cause vomiting. I do not know exactly about the time of the day, but I it's better to split it to several doses. I think when your son tolerates it more you can increase the dosage, I give 40-50 mg to my 3 year old. Some taurine also helps to move the copper out and has some (not very significant) relaxing effect on brain, so you can try some taurine in the evening. Margaret > I recently had some blood testing done on my 10yo child. Most tihngs > were within range except for Zinc which was well below normal range. > (copper was upper normal).I started giving him Zinc 20mg at night but > it seems to make him a bit hyper. I want to continue Zinc > supplementation as it is such an important mineral so I wondering if > anyone has any suggestions about how/when to give it - with or > without food, any supplements it shouldn't be given with, time of day > it should be given etc. Has anyone seen hyperness with Zinc initially > and then seen it settled down. > I would appreciate any comments > Thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 5, 2002 As I understood, Zinc should be given at night right before bed (so that will be not with food). Also Zinc should not be given with Calcium as they will cancel each other out(please correct me if I am wrong). Eve > > I recently had some blood testing done on my 10yo child. Most > tihngs > > were within range except for Zinc which was well below normal > range. > > (copper was upper normal).I started giving him Zinc 20mg at night > but > > it seems to make him a bit hyper. I want to continue Zinc > > supplementation as it is such an important mineral so I wondering > if > > anyone has any suggestions about how/when to give it - with or > > without food, any supplements it shouldn't be given with, time of > day > > it should be given etc. Has anyone seen hyperness with Zinc > initially > > and then seen it settled down. > > I would appreciate any comments > > Thank you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2002 When I gave my son Zinc, he was also hyper from it. First I had one with some B6 in it, so I thought it was the cause. (B6 definitely makes him hyper). Then I tried one that was only Zinc and from the 2nd day on or the 3rd it made him really 'madly' hyper. I stopped. Although I know that he is high on copper, so it may have been the copper that started to move out that caused the problem. One day when we are not doing anything else, I will try again, we will need to address his copper issues. It is just that there is always something going on and I have learnt not to do too many things at once. (Although still fall into the trap on occasion). Cheers, Elvira Australia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest guest Report post Posted December 6, 2002 according to pfeiffer regular doses of zince tend to build up the metallothionine in the intestine wall preventing further absorbtion of zinc. its not quite what u are tallking about but if he tolerates say once every three or four days then that gives some zinc and indeed sporadic doses may be the only way to take it. also molybdenum strongly reduces copper. > When I gave my son Zinc, he was also hyper from it. First I had one with > some B6 in it, so I thought it was the cause. (B6 definitely makes him > hyper). Then I tried one that was only Zinc and from the 2nd day on or the > 3rd it made him really 'madly' hyper. I stopped. > > Although I know that he is high on copper, so it may have been the copper > that started to move out that caused the problem. > > One day when we are not doing anything else, I will try again, we will need > to address his copper issues. > > It is just that there is always something going on and I have learnt not to > do too many things at once. (Although still fall into the trap on occasion). > > > Cheers, > > Elvira > Australia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
