To

[Guest guest]

,

I will be praying for you in your days to come. Hope you sleep well.

L.=}

From: " W. Birk " <wb4@...>

From wendy wb4@...

Hello everyone,

I want to update you in brief about my weekend. Tom has becoming

more and more violent at home. Sat. night he once again attacked his

father. When Yigal, my husband, tried to restrain him he fought quite

aggressively, resulting in tom getting a bloody nose. Poor yigal was

trying to keep him restrained, but tom kept getting loose and hitting or

kicking him. I came down to wipe his face, and tom wipped blood all over

my face. (Remember this is the kid who has 3 tatoos since mid-feb. and

all from less than legitamate places. He will be going June 1st for

blood tests for hiv, hep B and C.) We called the crisis unit. It was

full of course. Called the police to help restrain him...... they came,

and left. Later tom kicked me because I wouldnt fix his glasses (at

10:00 sat. night).

Sunday morning Yigal brought him his laundry, asked where to put it -

we are not allowed to enter his room...... when tom didnt answer except

to swear at his father, yigal dropped it on the floor and walked out.

tom charged past yigal, and emptied everyone elses clean laundry on the

floor. They started to scuffle. Adi (13) called 911. I came home fast

from work, just as the police arrived.

The police escorted Tom to the Childrens Hospital, where Tom has

been an inpatient before. and stayed until he was admitted - 9 HOURS

LATER!!!!! All the while tom is spitting at me, throwing gum in my hair,

yelling at me down the hall - where I had gone to avoid confrontation...

eventually psych agreed to take him.. and security marched him upstairs.

Adi's first words when I got home were: finally a safe nights sleep.

thank you for being here, guys, I really need you!

wendy

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[Guest guest]

Good morning to you too ,

> Good Morning, ,

>

> At first I read your post and thought " at least you have an option

> for treatment " . Then I realized that you are saying what I have been

> saying all along. If we treat our kids like criminals, they will respond

> with the correct social actions. There is no doubt that Tom is being

> territorial. He is fighting for the 'top spot' in the hierarchy at the

> house. If must think that acting tough is the way to do it.

There may be a rational to your son's behaviour, trying to be " territorial " but

do we really need to know? Maybe your son doesn't really know. I've done this so

many times before, assigning a

reason for my daughters reactions. Our children may readily take us up on these

reasonings just because they may be afraid to say what they are going through.

Most children want to feel

accepted and valued by their parents. When they cannot feel they can disclose

their feelings, of which they may not understand, having an excuse no matter how

bad is of a relief to them. It

gives them a feeling of acceptance. Your son may feel you are helping him out,

struggling with your family politics and his role is to cause 'hell'. " A way in

which change in others can come

about is to change ourselves " . I'm sure you know this rule from books, doctors

and/or support groups. It means letting go, forgiving and giving to yourself.

> So many times I hear people saying that rage is not part of ocd. They

> don't seem to understand that the rage is a reaction, not a cause. One

> side of me is always relieved to hear that others are in the same

> situation, on the other hand, my heart aches when I think that others

> are experiencing the same thing.

I know of some families who have created a " Rage Room " in their house. When the

child knows that they need an outlet for this 'urge' they can go there. I'm not

sure if it's the best solution

though it seems to help these kids. Their families have all got kids under age

10 with OCD, AD/HD and TS. But I think for many other kids with OCD the

situation will not improve if their

fears or worries are not faced, bringing them out into the open for proper

treatment. This decision has to be made solely by your son. Maybe the difficult

situation he is in now may provide

him with a chance to look within himself, to give himself a chance for help.

Sometimes a dark time in one's life can provide a way to see the light of hope

in a new way.

> , how old is your daughter? What kind of work do you do with her?

> What about the rest of your family, reactions, etc? You may respond

> privately if you want.

My daughter is 14. We educate her about her condition the best we can (without

force feeding it). We have worked closely with the doctors to get a more

accurate picture of her OCD, GAD and

social phobia. We now feel she has some tendencies towards Asperger's Syndrome.

We have a 6 year old son who for now stands up fairly well with our love. But we

do have concerns over the

contamination issues our daughter has over everything he touches. She has not

touched or hugged him in over a year, she was only able to then because of

medication (she's not on any now). My

wife and I just plug along trying to live with this the best we can. Things are

fairly smooth right now because many of the stresses that affect our daughter

are not there, she's not been to

school for 2 years. Still she is not well, her OCD is robing her childhood. We

have supportive large families who are willing to help at any time, which has

been our salvation many times.

Still they have no real idea what our lives are like within our home. Even

within this calm it can be very draining on us. We have also found good peer

support within a series of hospital

workshops for parents with OCD kids.

All the best,

[Guest guest]

Hi

I too am confused when I hear people say that rage is not a part of OCD, and I

wonder if they mean rage is not a symptom of the OCD itself and just a

manifestation of the frustration generated by

OCD. I say who cares what causes it, how do you deal with it? When my daughter

was younger, up until about 5, she used to go into rages. I finally started

saying " you can make that noise but

not near my ears " and locking her in her room. Or " if if you can't draw right

now without getting so frustrated you have to pitch a fit then drawing is off

limits until you can " . She seemed to

need the external control because she had no internal off button and so this

worked. Maybe with some kids it would just escalate things. But in general

I've found that during a crisis it's

better to deal with " how " and figure out the " why " later, if at all. She's

pretty much outgrown the rage thing for now anyway. But my husband, who also has

OCD, also struggles with episodic

rage. He never hit me but he would occasionally become enraged and scream

obsenities and scare me. This always came after a period where his

contamination fears and other OCD stuff had

escalated. For a while his doctors had him working on anger management

techniques, therapy to uncover deep-rooted issues, more CBT, etc. After a

particularly nasty episode I called them all

together and said if he ever raised his voice or threatened me again I would

call 911, have him arrested and/or committed and if they felt sorry for him they

could rent him a room in their own

homes. There are times when my husband has to leave the house for a period of

time to get under control but he has never directed his rage at me since. My

husband is a wonderful person when he

is in his right mind. We are still struggling to get his meds right etc. When he

goes into rages I know it's OCD related in some way, but too much " knowing " was

undermining my ability to set a

limit for what I could tolerate; when I stopped trying to " help " him I was able

to set limits.

I really do think that rage is an issue for all families with OCD, some are just

less dramatic, but it shouldn't be discounted as a symptom to deal with and

sometimes dealing with it is more

constructive than trying to understand it.

Dana

Hansen wrote:

> From: Hansen <hansenj@...>

>

> Good morning to you too ,

>

> > Good Morning, ,

> >

> > At first I read your post and thought " at least you have an option

> > for treatment " . Then I realized that you are saying what I have been

> > saying all along. If we treat our kids like criminals, they will respond

> > with the correct social actions. There is no doubt that Tom is being

> > territorial. He is fighting for the 'top spot' in the hierarchy at the

> > house. If must think that acting tough is the way to do it.

>

> There may be a rational to your son's behaviour, trying to be " territorial "

but do we really need to know? Maybe your son doesn't really know. I've done

this so many times before, assigning a

> reason for my daughters reactions. Our children may readily take us up on

these reasonings just because they may be afraid to say what they are going

through. Most children want to feel

> accepted and valued by their parents. When they cannot feel they can disclose

their feelings, of which they may not understand, having an excuse no matter how

bad is of a relief to them. It

> gives them a feeling of acceptance. Your son may feel you are helping him out,

struggling with your family politics and his role is to cause 'hell'. " A way in

which change in others can come

> about is to change ourselves " . I'm sure you know this rule from books, doctors

and/or support groups. It means letting go, forgiving and giving to yourself.

>

> > So many times I hear people saying that rage is not part of ocd. They

> > don't seem to understand that the rage is a reaction, not a cause. One

> > side of me is always relieved to hear that others are in the same

> > situation, on the other hand, my heart aches when I think that others

> > are experiencing the same thing.

>

> I know of some families who have created a " Rage Room " in their house. When

the child knows that they need an outlet for this 'urge' they can go there. I'm

not sure if it's the best solution

> though it seems to help these kids. Their families have all got kids under age

10 with OCD, AD/HD and TS. But I think for many other kids with OCD the

situation will not improve if their

> fears or worries are not faced, bringing them out into the open for proper

treatment. This decision has to be made solely by your son. Maybe the difficult

situation he is in now may provide

> him with a chance to look within himself, to give himself a chance for help.

Sometimes a dark time in one's life can provide a way to see the light of hope

in a new way.

>

> > , how old is your daughter? What kind of work do you do with her?

> > What about the rest of your family, reactions, etc? You may respond

> > privately if you want.

>

> My daughter is 14. We educate her about her condition the best we can (without

force feeding it). We have worked closely with the doctors to get a more

accurate picture of her OCD, GAD and

> social phobia. We now feel she has some tendencies towards Asperger's

Syndrome. We have a 6 year old son who for now stands up fairly well with our

love. But we do have concerns over the

> contamination issues our daughter has over everything he touches. She has not

touched or hugged him in over a year, she was only able to then because of

medication (she's not on any now). My

> wife and I just plug along trying to live with this the best we can. Things

are fairly smooth right now because many of the stresses that affect our

daughter are not there, she's not been to

> school for 2 years. Still she is not well, her OCD is robing her childhood. We

have supportive large families who are willing to help at any time, which has

been our salvation many times.

> Still they have no real idea what our lives are like within our home. Even

within this calm it can be very draining on us. We have also found good peer

support within a series of hospital

> workshops for parents with OCD kids.

>

> All the best,

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Come check out our brand new web site!

>

> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit their

web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom support at

http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

wrote: " I think our children are truly being denied a free

excistance to grow and mature like other children. I never use the word

" normal " because its normal according to whose standard??? "

Well put, ! I feel the same way.

Take care.

Louis

louis@...

ocdnet@...

/subscribe/ and

/subscribe/ocdandhomeschooling

[Guest guest]

Dana Carvalho wrote:

> I too am confused when I hear people say that rage is not a part of OCD, and I

wonder if they mean rage is not a symptom of the OCD itself and just a

manifestation of the frustration generated by

> OCD. I say who cares what causes it, how do you deal with it?

There is a really great book on this, " The Explosive Child " by Ross W.

Greene, Ph.D. It validates our experiences that traditional parenting

methods and behavior mod approaches don't work very well with our kids.

The author then goes on to describe a completely different approach that

makes a whole lot of sense. It is well worth the price. It is very

engaging to read. The parents and professionals on the TS list I belong

to are all raving about it.

Fran

[Guest guest]

Hi

> Sorry for the gap between letters, but the kids are on March break

> from school and entertaining them is a priority!

That's OK we just ended our busy March break here.

> You mentioned a 'rage room'. We have a punching bag in the basement.

> At different times tom or his sister, adi, have gone down to get out

> their frustrations. I asked about one for the group home. They

> discourage the action of punching, and even though a punching bag is not

> a person, they are punching the cause of their anger - which is a

> person. ok - at least they have a basketball hoop!

Most any physical outlet I'm sure is good.

> I think our children are truly being denied a free excistance to grow

> and mature like other children. I never use the word " normal " because

> its normal according to whose standard???

Someone on this list stated this was an excellent point. Well I'll second that!

>

> Has your daughter read " kissing doorknobs " ?

She does not want to read, see or discuss much when it comes to OCD :-(

> Why is she not on medication if she still has obsessions or compulsions??

She was put on Luvox after a very severe situation had escalated. The good thing

was that she could let go of many of her obsessions and compulsions on

medication. But she had developed very

strong tremors which she tried to hide from us. She started to refuse to go out

anywhere. She could not contain her tremors and begged to get off medication. We

had poor doctors overseeing

this whole situation, it was not handled well. Now we realize she should have

been introduced slowly to this first med. and then when this situation happened

she could have been slowly

introduced to another choice. She fears medication now. And she has very little

trust in any doctors who wants her to go on another medication.

> At work tonight

> we discussed a situtation like yours. A young teen has an older sister

> with ocd. She is controlling the house - everyones actions, lifestyle,

> etc. and her brother is sick of her manipulations. He requested

> counselling.

Our daughter used to have great control over our home. Now most of that is gone.

But because her disease has progressed she is now controlled by her OCD. She has

given into the lie that there

is safety in not facing her fears. I don't know what is worse, her being more

defiant and fighting or her quietly giving in to this OCD.

When I have come across siblings of kids with OCD I will often ask how they are.

They are amazing children! They have so much forgiveness in them. But I'm sure

it is very painful for them as

well. Especially if they believe in some way they are responsible for their

sibling's behaviour and for being 'extra' good to make up for the bad situations

that come along.

for now,

[Guest guest]

Hi, My name is Tammy. I am the mother of a 13 yr old daughter with OCD.

I am so grateful to find that there are other people out there with the same

problems that we have. When first finding out my daughter has OCD our lives

was a nightmare.

We also have a 17 yr old son. There are times he gets so frustraighted. He

does try hard. Sometimes, we have found that it helps when we just leave

the room. His sister has spent up to 45 min. washing her hands. When

anything is said, she is longer.

We live on a boat. This makes it worse, than when at someone's house,

because it never feels clean to her. No mater how much we try.

I have found that when I show her a lot of love and understanding she does

do a little better.

Tammy

Re: To

>From: Hansen <hansenj@...>

>

>Hi

>

>

>> Sorry for the gap between letters, but the kids are on March break

>> from school and entertaining them is a priority!

>

>That's OK we just ended our busy March break here.

>

>> You mentioned a 'rage room'. We have a punching bag in the basement.

>> At different times tom or his sister, adi, have gone down to get out

>> their frustrations. I asked about one for the group home. They

>> discourage the action of punching, and even though a punching bag is not

>> a person, they are punching the cause of their anger - which is a

>> person. ok - at least they have a basketball hoop!

>

>Most any physical outlet I'm sure is good.

>

>> I think our children are truly being denied a free excistance to grow

>> and mature like other children. I never use the word " normal " because

>> its normal according to whose standard???

>

>Someone on this list stated this was an excellent point. Well I'll second

that!

>

>>

>> Has your daughter read " kissing doorknobs " ?

>

>She does not want to read, see or discuss much when it comes to OCD :-(

>

>> Why is she not on medication if she still has obsessions or compulsions??

>

>She was put on Luvox after a very severe situation had escalated. The good

thing was that she could let go of many of her obsessions and compulsions on

medication. But she had developed very

>strong tremors which she tried to hide from us. She started to refuse to go

out anywhere. She could not contain her tremors and begged to get off

medication. We had poor doctors overseeing

>this whole situation, it was not handled well. Now we realize she should

have been introduced slowly to this first med. and then when this situation

happened she could have been slowly

>introduced to another choice. She fears medication now. And she has very

little trust in any doctors who wants her to go on another medication.

>

>> At work tonight

>> we discussed a situtation like yours. A young teen has an older sister

>> with ocd. She is controlling the house - everyones actions, lifestyle,

>> etc. and her brother is sick of her manipulations. He requested

>> counselling.

>

>Our daughter used to have great control over our home. Now most of that is

gone. But because her disease has progressed she is now controlled by her

OCD. She has given into the lie that there

>is safety in not facing her fears. I don't know what is worse, her being

more defiant and fighting or her quietly giving in to this OCD.

>

>When I have come across siblings of kids with OCD I will often ask how they

are. They are amazing children! They have so much forgiveness in them. But

I'm sure it is very painful for them as

>well. Especially if they believe in some way they are responsible for their

sibling's behaviour and for being 'extra' good to make up for the bad

situations that come along.

>

>for now,

>

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Ta Da! Come see our new web site!

>

>Onelist: A free email community service

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>The is sponsored by the OCSDA. You may visit their

web site at http://www.ocdhelp.org/ and view schedules for chatroom support

at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

[Guest guest]

Dana,

Thanks for your messages. I have bookmarked the Three Springs website

and look at it later.

I love this list, we are all such great resources!

wendy

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Louis,

Been there, done that!!

tried: March, Jenike, Clairborn,...

wendy )

>From: ocdnet@... (Louis Harkins)

>Reply-onelist

>onelist

>Subject: Re: To

>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:09:44 -0500 (EST)

>

>From: ocdnet@... (Louis Harkins)

>

>Hi ,

>

>Just remembered Dr. March's program at Duke; URL is

>http://www2.mc.duke.edu/pcaad/ . Dr. March's email address is

>jsmarch@... .

>

>Take care.

>

>Louis

>louis@...

>ocdnet@...

>/subscribe/ and

>/subscribe/ocdandhomeschooling

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

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chatroom support at http://www.ocdhelp.org/chat.html

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just remembered Dr. March's program at Duke; URL is

http://www2.mc.duke.edu/pcaad/ . Dr. March's email address is

jsmarch@... .

Take care.

Louis

louis@...

ocdnet@...

/subscribe/ and

/subscribe/ocdandhomeschooling

[Guest guest]

>Hi ,

Welcome to the list. Sounds like you and your daughter on the road to

recovery. How wonderful for you. The CBT has also helped my 7-yr old

daughter tremendously.

Take care,

in S.D.

[Guest guest]

chris,

Mittens and Ares should get together!! He was raised with cats so he

thinks he's a cat!! We had to teach him not to sit on the top of the couch -

can you imagine a dog his size sitting up there, looking out the

window??!!!! We've had him since May. The previous 10 months he was kept in

a cage 10+ hours a day. He was so developmentally and physically delayed it

was pathetic, but I think that he's all caught up now!! The highlight of

his day is going for a ride in the car.

Its hysterical about the anxiety disorder! I met someone who gave her

dog prozac! what a world we live in, eh!

GO AND ENJOY YOUR BREAK - YOU ALL DESERVE IT!

Give the kids lots secret gifts, wrapped and put into a bag, for those

times that they are getting cranky. I used to wrap up gum, $1 toys, party

toys, cassette tapes, chips, boxes of raisins, colouring book, crayons,

whatever.... the kids also got to choose something if they behaved for a

long time. We used to live 1.5 hours from the nearest city.

Don't think about us while your away - that is a command!!

have fun, and drive carefully, wendy

and I'll expect a travel log when you return!! hehehe

[Guest guest]

chris,

Mittens and Ares should get together!! He was raised with cats so he

thinks he's a cat!! We had to teach him not to sit on the top of the couch -

can you imagine a dog his size sitting up there, looking out the

window??!!!! We've had him since May. The previous 10 months he was kept in

a cage 10+ hours a day. He was so developmentally and physically delayed it

was pathetic, but I think that he's all caught up now!! The highlight of

his day is going for a ride in the car.

Its hysterical about the anxiety disorder! I met someone who gave her

dog prozac! what a world we live in, eh!

GO AND ENJOY YOUR BREAK - YOU ALL DESERVE IT!

Give the kids lots secret gifts, wrapped and put into a bag, for those

times that they are getting cranky. I used to wrap up gum, $1 toys, party

toys, cassette tapes, chips, boxes of raisins, colouring book, crayons,

whatever.... the kids also got to choose something if they behaved for a

long time. We used to live 1.5 hours from the nearest city.

Don't think about us while your away - that is a command!!

have fun, and drive carefully, wendy

and I'll expect a travel log when you return!! hehehe

[Guest guest]

Have fun on your trip!!! Think of us poor souls

who are at home still grinding away at the OCD

monsters! HeHe!!

mary from La.

Roman wrote:

> From: Roman <ChrisRoman@...>

>

> And now for something to smile about: We have this 23 month old boxer we

> inherited. When he goes to lie down on his mattress, he spins and spins,

> stopping to check the cover, until its 'just right'. Well tonight he was

> doing his spinning and checking so Yigal commented: " Great, the dog has ocd

> too!!! "

>

> Your post gave me a chuckle, . Our cat " Mittens " has recently started

> peeing on the kitchen rugs at night and making a low gutteral meow at the

> front door. She also hops the fence in the back yard compulsively all day

> but then scurries to the front door in terror of the front yard and meows

> to be let in. Steve said, " Terriffic. Even the cat has an anxiety disorder!

> If you tell me she needs therapy, I'm outta here! "

>

> Well, we're leaving on vacation tomorrow for 10 days in Lake Tahoe and the

> Bay Area. Boy, have we earned it. Wasn't that long ago when we couldn't get

> out of the house when OCD held sway. I'll be in touch when we get back.

>

> Take care,

>

> in San Diego

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I recognize many 'normal' adolescent traits in your description of Tori.

Hanging around older kids, not talking to people, setting unreasonable

limits for herself (the computer contamination - except for her band), etc.

I was wondering if one of my kids could lend a hand. What kind of music

does Tori like? around here there's everything from Korn, Prozak, OffSpring,

Sugar Ray, Bush, Green Day,... (and ziv listens to Back Street Boys, Spice

Girls, the cutesy tween stuff!)

Both Tom and Adi have spoken to other ocd kids their ages and

older/younger. Its not easy for any of them. Does Tori use the telephone?

Adi has one attached to her ear most of her waking hours - unless Yigal is

around - then she gets on a chat with a bunch of her friends!!

Honestly, , we're just up the road. If we can help - let me know.

Are you homeschooling like last year, or did that program come through??

Tom is back in his alternate program.

take care of yourself, and the family too.

wendy, in canada

[Guest guest]

, I too had the teen list going here for awhile in

the hopes of it being read. It is such a good place

for them to dialogue. But....hasn't worked yet. Maybe

another time. Tori seems to be able to motivate for

her own benefit..I hope that you can find the right

instructor to capture her education

interests.....these people have to be out there!I

think that mybe Tori and my son have cognitive

mis-understandings centered around the OCD. Do her OCD

symtoms seem to be centered around certain events?

When our home was being contaminated by this counselor

that did home visits, our son wouldn't touch the door

knob. That is lessening now....he still won't come to

the table.! I am working on little things now and

hoping that issues at school won't present big time

for him. Take care! Vivian in wa. st.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi

> You wrote:

> I'd like to see the doctors who have seen Tori over the

> years stand in my shoes for a week and see where their souls takes them?

>

> I hear you, . To a therapist, your child is just one of many patients

> that they see every week so they certainly don't agonize over solutions the

> way we do as parents! You have the best sense of if it's possible to

> motivate Tori or not. Hopefully, you'll be able to seize the moment when

> one presents itself.

I agree many doctors are overwhelmed by their patient loads. Many families of

children with OCD here where I live can wait up to a year to be assessed and/or

treated. The other variable I realize is that the doctors don't have all the

answers. Sure there is a set criteria that they use. But how many OCD children

are lucky to fall into that treatment set compared to the many left out? Also

there is not enough money behind forming proper treatment centres that would

address the problems OCD children and their families face in a safe and

intensively complete manner. Doctors (if you can find one, and they work out as

sufficient) usually treat for one hour between once every week to once every

two weeks. We as parents are left to keep things on track between these visits.

Some older children are lucky to be self motivated, many are not. It's not the

best way... maybe... there is a better way?

> Can you interest Tori in the teen list at all? If

> there were some way for her to hear from peers who were struggling and

> succeeding maybe it would help.

Long ago I as a parent subscribed to the teen list in hopes that Tori would get

on. I even printed out some of the interesting posts and the different profiles

for her to read. It didn't work at all. Tori would not touch the computer

(contamination). Although she surprised us last night by using the mouse to

click on some pictures of her favorite music group. If it wasn't this band I

doubt she would have done it. This was a small bit of motivation :-) The

doctors are curious about Tori's contamination issues. They feel they stem more

from her AS. The need to be over perfectionistic about certain things. Then

again they should see her room or the half of the counter she uses in the

bathroom she shares with her brother. I'm sure you could find many unfriendly

living 'things'.

Tori wants nothing to do with peers. She feels they all love " stupid " things

and that she is from a different planet. Because of this she feels threatened,

not accepted and judged as a " freak " . When she was in school she dealt with

these feelings with depression, avoidance and fearful anxiety that would many

times explode at home with violence towards herself and to others. Tori is not

in school because of this. Tori does much better with older people because of

the general acceptance, although she still will demonstrate social

inadequacies. Ramblin' on....

>

> My thoughts are with you,

Thank you. It's a long road but we're driving it.

from Canada

[Guest guest]

Hi Vivian,

>

> .... Tori seems to be able to motivate for

> her own benefit..I hope that you can find the right

> instructor to capture her education

> interests.....these people have to be out there!I

I hope so! We will find out in the next few weeks. The high school is being

very cooperative, should I be suspicious?

>

> I think that mybe Tori and my son have cognitive

> mis-understandings centered around the OCD. Do her OCD

> symtoms seem to be centered around certain events?

I know that some do but most of her OCD symptoms are from over sensitivity.

The most acute is the contamination from her brother, she feels she will

die. She has severe anxiety and accompanied rituals around the washroom that

came from a traumatic situation when she was about 4. The doctors feel it is

a much clearer picture looking at Tori through an Asperger's perspective

with OCD symptoms and not the other way around. Still these are just labels,

the truth is that whatever we call the effect or cause, Tori's behaviours

and ability to deal with the world is at this time is impaired. I will say

that her AS is much to do with mis-understandings and lack of acceptance.

>

> When our home was being contaminated by this counselor

> that did home visits, our son wouldn't touch the door

> knob. That is lessening now....he still won't come to

> the table.! I am working on little things now and

> hoping that issues at school won't present big time

> for him.

I know what you mean. We hardly get Tori to sit at the table with us. We are

hoping she makes it to a family barbecue this weekend. It's difficult to get

her out at all. I hope your son is able to work on and be open to help when

the stresses of school get to be too much. That kind of communication and

awareness is so important.

from Canada :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

>

> I recognize many 'normal' adolescent traits in your description of Tori.

> Hanging around older kids, not talking to people, setting unreasonable

> limits for herself (the computer contamination - except for her band), etc.

Not many 'older' kids mostly adults 40 and up. On the surface what I might have

described seems typical for many 14 yo. this is far from what we see in her

behaviour.

>

> I was wondering if one of my kids could lend a hand. What kind of music

> does Tori like? around here there's everything from Korn, Prozak, OffSpring,

> Sugar Ray, Bush, Green Day,... (and ziv listens to Back Street Boys, Spice

> Girls, the cutesy tween stuff!)

Thank you for your generous offer. But it would fail before I could say go. Tori

can and does literally scream and will unintentionally offend any girl her age

who likes the Back Street Boys or the like. All the music groups you listed

Tori will turn off when they are on MuchMusic or the radio. She cannot handle

them. She likes or I should say is obsessed with the Goo Goo Dolls. She has

almost everything they have recorded, videos, interviews, movies their songs are

in... etc. Their old work is very 'raw'! She has started listening to old stuff

like the Ramones. She will only listen to groups that have influenced the Goo

Goo Dolls. The reason she wants to play guitar is to play the Goo Goo Dolls

songs... not for music sake. A strange thing occurred with one of the Goo videos

she loved. One day she felt sick, to the point of gagging while watching this

video. Then anytime it was on the same thing. She would turn up the sound and

then leave the room, then re-enter when done. She's almost over this.

>

> Both Tom and Adi have spoken to other ocd kids their ages and

> older/younger. Its not easy for any of them. Does Tori use the telephone?

Rarely except to talk to her grandmother. When she talks to someone else on the

phone she quickly disintegrates into a shaking wreak and will hand the phone off

quickly :-( Tori wants her hair cut and coloured again and won't call to make

an appointment for herself. We have refused to help out this time, except for

support. I'm sure she will wait till her hair is out of control. She's been

asking, begging us to call for about a month now! Every day!

>

> Adi has one attached to her ear most of her waking hours - unless Yigal is

> around - then she gets on a chat with a bunch of her friends!!

I sometimes think it's surgically attached! LOL

>

> Honestly, , we're just up the road. If we can help - let me know.

> Are you homeschooling like last year, or did that program come through??

> Tom is back in his alternate program.

Thank you again. As you can see we have a long way to go before we can introduce

Tori to social situations. She still refuses help that the doctors offer.

The high school is co-ordinating a program for Tori that might just work out

well. As long as they find a suitable teacher. Tori has already said " I hope

they don't get a dumb ass like the one I had last time. "

>

> take care of yourself, and the family too.

You too :-) Thanks again,

from Canada

[Guest guest]

Add my congrats to Tom, too ! (One thing about being on digest is I'm

always a day late and a dollar short, it seems.)

in San Diego

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Please know that we are praying for you and your family. I know how difficult

it is to deal with a child who is in so much pain that the thought of death

is actually a relief to them. Know that you are doing the best you can for

. We admitted Ian (7) to the hospital this summer when he got to the

point of saying he would rather be in heaven and he could not promise not to

harm himself. The Docs at the hospital were able to help get his medications

adjusted and he is doing much better now. Take care of yourself and be

strong. is so lucky to have you to help him through this difficult time.

Joy in SD

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

There are no words that can really help a whole lot here. I remember when

Molly went through this. It was so surreal, I wanted to just throw up. My

heart and prayers and understanding are with you and . I pray you have

friends and family to give you hugs and comfort while you go through this

difficult journey.

((((((((((((((((((((((((mary & ryan)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I wish there was more I could do. I will be praying and sending you both

good positive thoughts.

Warmest prayers,

patti R.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What wonderful news about Joe! Like you, I wonder about my other child and OCD

too. He's still in the age-appropriate finnicky " zone " but then so was Kelsey at

his age. (He's not quite five.) But it is comforting to have had a CBT success

if need to start working with a second child, isn't it?

Take care,

in San Diego whose family will hopefully be well by Christmas

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Congratulations on 's response to nutritional therapy. Please keep me

posted. You're fortunate that he's so willing to comply with all the vitamins.

Kelsey maxes out at two or three pills

twice a day.

Can you tell me about the diet changes you're struggling with? I imagine that

having to eliminate extensive foods for potential allergens could be quite

tough. Maybe just a little at a time?

I've really been talking to my kids about making healthy food choices. I used

the analogy of how I've been tempted to buy cheap gas sometimes when it gets

expensive, but then it makes that

knocking sound because the car just can't run well without high quality fuel,

and how Lucky Charms do the same thing to your body! So we've been doing fruit

smoothies and peanutbutter toast

for breakfast lately. Boy was I shocked when Kelsey asked if she could have some

raw broccoli and dip for breakfast the other day!

Take care,

in San Diego

Thanks for the update. It's been two weeks for also..... although we have

failed at the diet....he has been great about taking all of the omega oils and

vitamins

and supplements. There are 18 different ones that he is taking (some of them 3

each)

and we have noticed a difference also. His teacher commented that he was more

alert, and his behavior therapist observed that he was more lively which is good

for

.

I can't wait to see if the change continues..... I'll keep everyone posted.

Take care.

mary from La.

[Guest guest]

Gloria, What kind of numbers are we talking about? I have no clue how big

this thing is. like 20 or 100 or what, approximately??