Intro and Question

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Why don't you cancel the appointment on Monday and give yourself 2

weeks or a month to complete your research? This pediatrician hasn't

done too well so far in giving you accurate information, so I think

you need to do your own thinking and your own digging.

Deborah

> Hello, My name is and I have a daughter who is 15 months

> old. Unfortunately, I believed my Ped when he told me that all

the

> vaccinations he uses are mecury free. I went ahead and let him

give

> my daughter all the required vaccinations at the wellness visits

up

> to her 12 month.

>

> She has not had any side affects from receiving them, thankfully

and

> seems to be developing normally.

>

> As this connection has hit the airwaves recently I decided before

> allowing her to get her 15 month booster of HIB & DTAP I would

read

> EOH. Boy am I glad I did, I went to my Ped's office and asked to

> read the vaccination insert and saw that the HIB he is using STILL

> has mecury in it! I am sick I didn't ask to read this before.

The

> DTAP reads a trace is added.

>

> I already told me Ped even before I read EOH that we would be

giving

> the MMR as individual shots and delay them to start at 18 months

old.

>

> My question is...her 15 month appt is Monday. I bought an extra

copy

> of the book to give my Ped which I am sure he won't read.

Obviously,

> I am not allowing her to get the HIB he has so do I have them run

> titers on her to check her levels for HIB & DTAP? Or do I have

him

> order the HIB that is mecury free?

>

> Also, is she out of the woods with her shots she has already

received

> as far as not showing signs of any delays? Would she already show

> signs of a problem from the HIB & DTAP that she got at 2,4,6

months?

>

> Sorry to ask so many questions. I am sick to my stomach after

> reading the book. I just want to make the best decision for my

> daughter on Monday.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

[Guest guest]

,

It is obvious from your post that your Ped either outright lied, or

he is misinformed. What was his reaction when you read that the Hib

had thimerisol in it after he told you they were thimerisol free? If

I were you I would quit while you were a head. My granddaughter had

only one MMR. She got measles anyway. Of course they never diagnosed

it because the Ped on hearing her symtoms and what the rash looked

liked, would not allow her to come into his office. She sailed

through it fine. As a bonus of getting the measles her developemental

problems improved drastically. Strange? She also got chikenpox even

though she had the vaccine. As an added bonus from their poison shots

she just got over a case of shingles. Last year when she came down

with chickenpox her Ped refused to diagnos it becasue she had the

vaccine. Well about a month ago she started complaining about burning

pain under her right arm going across into her back. This is classic

shingles pain. I did not put it together. I thought she had pulled

some muscles hanging from monkey bars in the school yard. Then one

night I went in to check on her while she was showering. She had her

arm up letting the hot water hit under her arm because the heat made

the pain feel better. I was just about to yell at her for wasting the

hot water when I saw three lesions under her arm. When I got her out

of the shower they were pustules. I knew right then and therr it has

the shingles. I called her Ped and brought her in. He confirmed it

looked like shingles to him. He asked her what kind of pain she was

having. She said burning and tingling. He said sounds like shingles

pain to me. I couldn't let the opportunity pass and reminded him that

last year I thought she had chickenpox and he said no. I said now she

has shingles. I said how many people do you know get shingles if they

havn't had chickenpox first. He agreed. Then he said well they are

working on a vaccine for shingles. I said I'm not surprised. Give

them a vaccine for chickenpox, that doesn't work, and then cause them

to get shingles, which use to be a disease elderly people got and

then come up with a vaccine for that. Its a classic case of them

creating the disease and coming up with the cure. If I were you

I would quit while I was ahead. The truth is we don't know

the truth. They can say all they want the thimerisol is out of the

vaccines. I would not believe these pharmaceuticals, CDC, FDA, IOM,

or your Pediatrician if they were sitting on a stack of bibles. They

are all lying unscrupulous bastards.

Peggy

-- In EOHarm , " melissa33432 " <aaoccasion@A...> wrote:

> Hello, My name is and I have a daughter who is 15 months

> old. Unfortunately, I believed my Ped when he told me that all the

> vaccinations he uses are mecury free. I went ahead and let him

give

> my daughter all the required vaccinations at the wellness visits up

> to her 12 month.

>

> She has not had any side affects from receiving them, thankfully

and

> seems to be developing normally.

>

[Guest guest]

-Being a girl helps alot, but my son regressed after his MMR booster

and varivax at the ripe ol age of almost 5. He had developmental

delays, apraxic speech before that, so just keep a close eye, no crap

food, plenty of anti-oxidants and keep tabs on milestones.Good Luck!--

In EOHarm , aaoccasion@A... wrote:

> Thanks. I forgot to mention I do have that book as well and have

read her

> recommended vaccination schedule.

>

> Based on past experiences, is my daughter " out of the woods " from her

past

> vaccinations causing any problems?

[Guest guest]

Just becuase you get the vaccine, doesnt mean you wont get the measles, chicken pox. You may still get it, but you may not be as bad. The vaccine isnt 100%, it will just make it a "not as bad" incident when you do get it.

Re: Intro and question

,It is obvious from your post that your Ped either outright lied, or he is misinformed. What was his reaction when you read that the Hib had thimerisol in it after he told you they were thimerisol free? If I were you I would quit while you were a head. My granddaughter had only one MMR. She got measles anyway. Of course they never diagnosed it because the Ped on hearing her symtoms and what the rash looked liked, would not allow her to come into his office. She sailed through it fine. As a bonus of getting the measles her developemental problems improved drastically. Strange? She also got chikenpox even though she had the vaccine. As an added bonus from their poison shots she just got over a case of shingles. Last year when she came down with chickenpox her Ped refused to diagnos it becasue she had the vaccine. Well about a month ago she started complaining about burning pain under her right arm going across into her back. This is classic shingles pain. I did not put it together. I thought she had pulled some muscles hanging from monkey bars in the school yard. Then one night I went in to check on her while she was showering. She had her arm up letting the hot water hit under her arm because the heat made the pain feel better. I was just about to yell at her for wasting the hot water when I saw three lesions under her arm. When I got her out of the shower they were pustules. I knew right then and therr it has the shingles. I called her Ped and brought her in. He confirmed it looked like shingles to him. He asked her what kind of pain she was having. She said burning and tingling. He said sounds like shingles pain to me. I couldn't let the opportunity pass and reminded him that last year I thought she had chickenpox and he said no. I said now she has shingles. I said how many people do you know get shingles if they havn't had chickenpox first. He agreed. Then he said well they are working on a vaccine for shingles. I said I'm not surprised. Give them a vaccine for chickenpox, that doesn't work, and then cause them to get shingles, which use to be a disease elderly people got and then come up with a vaccine for that. Its a classic case of them creating the disease and coming up with the cure. If I were you I would quit while I was ahead. The truth is we don't know the truth. They can say all they want the thimerisol is out of the vaccines. I would not believe these pharmaceuticals, CDC, FDA, IOM, or your Pediatrician if they were sitting on a stack of bibles. They are all lying unscrupulous bastards.Peggy-- In EOHarm , "melissa33432" <aaoccasion@A...> wrote:> Hello, My name is and I have a daughter who is 15 months > old. Unfortunately, I believed my Ped when he told me that all the > vaccinations he uses are mecury free. I went ahead and let him give > my daughter all the required vaccinations at the wellness visits up > to her 12 month. > > She has not had any side affects from receiving them, thankfully and > seems to be developing normally. >

[Guest guest]

Hi Deb,

I keep hearing this about vaccines making diseases milder, but I've

never seen any medical research to back it up. Do you have anything

in writing? Clinical research?

I've also heard that children who get measles or chickenpox after

vaccine may get cases that are not milder, but abnormal (there is a

particular term which I can't remember) and actually more dangerous.

A few years back I was working at a school where there was an

outbreak of chickenpox. Most of the second grade had it. No one had

any complications and they were all back in school within a few

days. The child of the janitor, who was vaccinated had also had

chickenpox. Since he attended a different school, I don't think

he " caught " it through his dad, and it wasn't in the same time

frame, either. He had complications, including temporary paralysis.

It was almost a year before he reached something like full recovery

and his legs were still a bit problematic.

My granddaughter, unvaccinated, had chickenpox. Her case was

extremely mild and totally uncomplicated. She had a nice

developmental leap immediately afterwards. Personally, I think that

childhood illnesses serve a purpose and the drive to eradicate them

is misguided.

Deborah

> Just becuase you get the vaccine, doesnt mean you wont get the

measles,

> chicken pox. You may still get it, but you may not be as bad.

The vaccine

> isnt 100%, it will just make it a " not as bad " incident when you

do get it.

[Guest guest]

This is remarkably silly. The info in the inserts is in the PDR

(Physician's Desk Reference) which is available in most public

libraries. It can also be found, in many cases, on the

manufacturer's web-site.

This is beginning to remind me (I'm a history buff) of the huge

controversy back in the 1400's - 1500's about translating the Bible

into the vernacular. The powers that be were afraid that if ordinary

people could read the Bible themselves they might question

authority. They were right, people did question authority.

Doctors are afraid that if people read the vax inserts they will

question the safety of the vaxes and the sanity of the doctors who

insist on injecting them in babies and small children, especially

several at one time.

Sigh.

Deborah

> Hi Peggy,

> I only spoke to the Nurse on Friday when I asked for copies of the

inserts

> to which she said I was not allowed. Then I asked to read them

and she said

> she wasn't sure I was allowed, yea right.

>

> My plan was to confront him with this on Monday's appt. I have

interviewed

> all the Ped's in my area and of course they are all pro-vacc. I

did find one

> Ped who at least agreed to order the MMR separately if I wanted.

[Guest guest]

The immune system is the defense mechanism in each person that helps the body fight disease. Medical science has found an effective way to help the immune system fight disease through the use of vaccines.

When you get an infection, your body reacts by producing substances called antibodies. These antibodies fight the invading antigen (virus or bacteria) and help you get over the illness. The antibodies usually stay in your system, even after the disease has gone, and protect you from getting the same disease again. This is called immunity.

Newborn babies often have immunity to some diseases because they have antibodies from their mothers (known as maternal antibodies). But this immunity is only temporary and may not occur at all if the mother is not immune. We can keep children immune to many diseases, even after they lose their mothers' antibodies, by immunizing them.

The viruses and bacteria that cause disease are killed or weakened, then used to make the vaccines.

Vaccines make the body think it is being invaded by a specific disease, and the body reacts by producing antibodies. Then, if the child is exposed to the disease in the future, he or she is protected.

"Live" vaccines are made from weakened forms of disease-causing viruses. These live vaccines (measles vaccine, for example) are extremely effective. They usually provide life-long immunity following only one or two doses. Other vaccines are "inactivated" (killed), and require multiple doses to build up the immune response (for example, inactivated polio vaccine). Some inactivated vaccines require booster doses throughout life, such as tetanus and diphtheria.

QUESTION:Do vaccines decrease the immune system's natural ability to fight disease? ANSWER:No. As a matter of fact, vaccines strengthen the immune system by preparing it to defend against serious disease-causing bacteria and viruses. In contrast, if a child is not vaccinated and then becomes exposed to a disease-causing germ, he may not be strong enough to fight the disease. Additionally, there is a greater likelihood that his ability to fight off a second infection resulting from the "natural disease" will be reduced. For example, a previously healthy child with a measles infection is more likely to develop pneumonia or encephalitis, both of which can become severe enough to cause longterm health problems or even death.

"The immune system is constantly working to protect us from bacteria and viruses in our environment," states Dr. Jeff Duchin, Public Health-Seattle & King County. "Immunizations strengthen our immune defenses against a specific infection. Immunizations do not interfere with our ability to fight off other infections that we are not immunized against."

In fact, vaccinated children have been shown to suffer fewer infections, overall, than unvaccinated children. A study conducted in Germany of 496 vaccinated and unvaccinated children found that "...children who received immunizations against diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, Hib, and polio within the first 3 months of life had fewer infections with vaccine-related and -unrelated [bacteria and viruses] than the nonvaccinated group" (Offit, P. et al, 2002).

A 2002 report published by the Institute of Medicine's Safety Review Committe, revealed a similar conclusion: "...multiple vaccinations do not increase the risk of young children developing various infections, ranging from colds and ear infections to pneumonia and meningitis." (The Safety Review Committee was established by the Institute of Medicine [iOM], an independent expert committee whose purpose is to review immunization safety concerns. The IOM was created by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Institutes of Health.)

QUESTION:I heard that the less you "bombard" the immune system at one time, the better, so you would not give several vaccines on the same day. Is this true? ANSWER:No. Receiving more than one childhood immunization at the same time does not harm a child's immune system. A review of clinical studies by the IOM in 2002 revealed no association between childhood immunizations and immune system problems. While there is clearly much more to learn about the immune system, some things we do know. Scientific data show that giving a child several vaccines at the same time has no adverse effect on a normal immune system. The immune system of a newborn can recognize and respond to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of different organisms. According to a study published in the January 2002 issue of Pediatrics, scientists estimate that a child could receive up to 10,000 vaccines in one day and still not "use up" his or her immune response. A child receiving 11 vaccines in one day would "use up" less than one percent of his/her immune system (Offit, P.A. et al).

According to Atkinson, MD, U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "The immune system is an extremely capable system. It can manage and respond to literally millions of antigens (foreign substances) at the same time. Take for example, walking outside on a spring day with flowers and trees in bloom. Through your mouth, nose and lungs, your immune system will constantly respond to multiple antigens (like pollen and dust) as it does its work in your bloodstream. In the same way, in daily interactions, you may be exposed to multiple cold viruses and your body will respond successfully. But some infections can cause severe illness and death even in persons with healthy immune systems. We can help the immune system ward off the serious infectious diseases that immunizations can prevent."

QUESTION:Is the method of injecting vaccines harmful for the body? ANSWER:No. Injecting the vaccines is a safe method that has been used for decades. Just as injecting infection-fighting antibiotics for illness is okay, so it is for giving vaccines. Vaccines are not injected directly into the bloodstream. Most vaccines are injected deep into the muscle or into the fat layer just below the skin. In addition, the syringe and needle used for an immunization are sterile and are only used once and then thrown away, so there is no possibility for the spread of infection by getting immunized.

Other methods for administering vaccine may soon become available, (such as by being sprayed into the nose or even eaten with food). The method used to administer vaccine, whether by injection or other route, is tested for safety and effectiveness before it is used in the general population.

QUESTION:I have heard that some people get diseases that they have been vaccinated against. How could this be true? ANSWER:Modern vaccines are extremely effective, but are not perfect. For example, a vaccine that is 90% effective means that one in every ten people who is vaccinated is not fully protected from the disease. Should disease affect a community, those that are unprotected are likely to be infected - which includes those who were not vaccinated and the 10% of people who were vaccinated but for whom the vaccine didn't work. The 10% for whom the vaccine did not work may still have partial immunity; if infected, these individuals may experience a milder form of the disease. Because most diseases that vaccines prevent are transmitted from person-to-person, the more people in a community who are immunized, the less likely that disease will be transmitted and "find" the few that are unprotected.

Most vaccines require more than one dose to reach maximum immunity. Some, like tetanus and diphtheria, require booster doses every 10 years throughout life to continue that immunity.

QUESTION:Isn't it true that because of better hygiene and sanitation, vaccine-preventable diseases began to disappear before vaccines were introduced? ANSWER:No. Many infectious diseases became better controlled as living conditions and hygiene improved, however they remained serious threats due to periodic outbreaks in vulnerable populations. It wasn't until the introduction of vaccines that we saw a dramatic drop in the rates of vaccine-preventable diseases.

Combating diseases often takes a combined approach. Several factors have helped the work of vaccines including:

better nutrition, less crowded living conditions and better sanitation, more effective antibiotics and other treatments.

In spite of these advances, vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks still occur because of lack of immunization or incomplete immunization. Diseases like measles and pertussis are highly contagious, regardless of hygiene and living conditions.

Dr. Jeff Duchin, Public Health - Seattle & King County, states, "Immunizations have led to a dramatic decrease in serious childhood infections, such as Hib disease, that could not have been accomplished through improvement in sanitary conditions alone."

The incidence of measles, pertussis, Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) and other vaccine-preventable diseases has decreased dramatically, directly due to immunizations.

The Hib vaccine was directly responsible for decreasing the incidence of Hib disease and Hib meningitis. Once the leading cause of death among young children, Hib disease has dropped more than 95% since the vaccine was introduced (see chart above). Sanitation is not that much better now than in the early 1990s; clearly, sanitation alone cannot account for the dramatic drop in Hib disease.

The graph below illustrates the decline in measles cases in Washington State since measles vaccine became available. Prior to the licensure of measles vaccine in 1963, there were 500,000 cases and 500 deaths from measles in the United States. In 1999, only about 100 cases were reported and no deaths occurred from measles in the U.S.

According to the CDC, the largest outbreaks of measles since 1993 have occurred in populations that refuse vaccination for religious or philosophic reasons. Most outbreaks have involved limited spread from measles imported from outside the United States.

QUESTION:Is it better to become immune from natural infections rather than through vaccination? ANSWER:No. Vaccine-preventable diseases can be deadly; they can cause permanent disabilities, such as brain damage from measles or pertussis, liver cancer from hepatitis B infection, or paralysis from polio. And some vaccines (such as tetanus and Hib), are better at creating immunity than natural infection. Vaccines provide protection from disease without risking the serious adverse effects of that illness.

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related sites

Data and research reports for King County residents. Includes reports and statistics on ethnicity and health.

Epi-Log NewsletterArticles about recent outbreaks, vaccination programs, cases of unusual infectious diseases, and background articles on new and emerging infectious diseases.

Re: Intro and question

Hi Deb,I keep hearing this about vaccines making diseases milder, but I've never seen any medical research to back it up. Do you have anything in writing? Clinical research?I've also heard that children who get measles or chickenpox after vaccine may get cases that are not milder, but abnormal (there is a particular term which I can't remember) and actually more dangerous.A few years back I was working at a school where there was an outbreak of chickenpox. Most of the second grade had it. No one had any complications and they were all back in school within a few days. The child of the janitor, who was vaccinated had also had chickenpox. Since he attended a different school, I don't think he "caught" it through his dad, and it wasn't in the same time frame, either. He had complications, including temporary paralysis. It was almost a year before he reached something like full recovery and his legs were still a bit problematic.My granddaughter, unvaccinated, had chickenpox. Her case was extremely mild and totally uncomplicated. She had a nice developmental leap immediately afterwards. Personally, I think that childhood illnesses serve a purpose and the drive to eradicate them is misguided.Deborah> Just becuase you get the vaccine, doesnt mean you wont get the measles,> chicken pox. You may still get it, but you may not be as bad. The vaccine> isnt 100%, it will just make it a "not as bad" incident when you do get it.

[Guest guest]

Oh, yes....the million dollar question...the one we all ask

ourselves all the time!!!

I agree...no more vaxes until you find your stance on the issue.

Cave's book is the vaccination bible. There are a lot of

other vax books out there but she is the one to follow.

My story:

I have a 3 1/2 yo son who was dx'ed last year w/ autism. When I

first found out, I didn't know WHAT to do about my daughter, who was

6mos old at the time. I didn't think I could bring myself to not

vaccinate her. After doing my research, I found that it actually

wasn't that hard of a choice! It was made easier by the fact that

she had a brother w/ autism. I don't know what I'd do about

vaccines if autism hadn't come into our lives. My daughter got two

rounds of the usual stuff (which was FOUR vaccines on two separate

occasions...we have since switched pediatricians!!) She is probably

very well protected already, and we will check titers somewhere down

the line. I am just not too concerned with it right now. she is

now 18mos old and will definitely NOT be getting an MMR. We will

consider vaccines again before kindergarten, but I am pretty sure at

this point that she will not get anymore.

Is your daughter out of the woods...well that's a tough question.

You are probably pretty safe b/c first of all, she's a girl.

Secondly, I think that most on this list would say that their kids,

even though at the time we thought they were developing normally,

did things before they went on their 18month decline that weren't

really normal. For example, I have heard from many parents that

their kids never pointed or lifted their arms to be picked up. When

my son was 15 mos, he was still a happy " normal " child, but he

didn't point, or shrug his shoulders, or lift arms to be picked up.

These are all things that his sister does all the time, so I have

had a different feeling about her all along. Then again, I stopped

vaccinating her at 6mos!!

My last 2 cents: You should think about switching pediatricians.

It was the best thing I ever did. Thankfully where I live (in Marin

County CA) there is a wonderful practice called Pediatric

Alternatives and they are VERY supportive of not vaccinating and for

those who chose to do so, they follow Cave's guidelines.

You should ask around and see if there is another doctor who might

actually read something you give to him (or her)!!

AND, if you still have that vaccine insert that says thimerosal, you

should post here and let Kirby know. He has asked for proof

that these vaccines are still on the shelves.

Good luck....I know where you are at b/c I was there last year.

> Hi Deborah,

> Thanks for your response. I have no problem keeping the appt to

get her

> weight and height recorded. I am NOT allowing her to get any

shots at that

> appointment with or without his approval end of story.

>

> Where are we at in this world when as parents we have to protect

our

> children from the very people who are supposed to be doing the

protecting?

[Guest guest]

my daughter had an adverse reaction to her kindergarden booster shots at 5yo. She has ADD, CAPD and heavy metal toxicity.

Re: Intro and question

Thanks. I forgot to mention I do have that book as well and have read her recommended vaccination schedule.

Based on past experiences, is my daughter "out of the woods" from her past vaccinations causing any problems?

[Guest guest]

My doctor actually puts the vaccine lable ON the sheet i sign once my son gets his vaccination.

Re: Intro and question

This is remarkably silly. The info in the inserts is in the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) which is available in most public libraries. It can also be found, in many cases, on the manufacturer's web-site.This is beginning to remind me (I'm a history buff) of the huge controversy back in the 1400's - 1500's about translating the Bible into the vernacular. The powers that be were afraid that if ordinary people could read the Bible themselves they might question authority. They were right, people did question authority.Doctors are afraid that if people read the vax inserts they will question the safety of the vaxes and the sanity of the doctors who insist on injecting them in babies and small children, especially several at one time.Sigh.Deborah> Hi Peggy,> I only spoke to the Nurse on Friday when I asked for copies of the inserts > to which she said I was not allowed. Then I asked to read them and she said > she wasn't sure I was allowed, yea right. > > My plan was to confront him with this on Monday's appt. I have interviewed > all the Ped's in my area and of course they are all pro-vacc. I did find one > Ped who at least agreed to order the MMR separately if I wanted.

[Guest guest]

,

The next time that idiot nurse says you are not allowed to see the

package insert you tell her that if she does not give it to you, she

will get a call form your attorney. Those inserts are available on

line. Whenever I get a priscription I alwasy ask the druggest for the

package insert, I have never been refused. I would make sure you

address this issue wiht the Ped as well. They are leaving themselves

open for a lawsuit. Ask her if she has ever heard of informed consent.

What nerve. Will someone please tell me how these F___ing MD's are

getting away with this? I was planing on having another cup of coffee,

now I can't, my BP is too high right now. Did she give you the inserts?

Peggy

> Hi Peggy,

> I only spoke to the Nurse on Friday when I asked for copies of the

inserts

> to which she said I was not allowed. Then I asked to read them and

she said

> she wasn't sure I was allowed, yea right.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Are we ever out of the woods?????

My son regressed when he was 14-15, following boosters and the newly required series of Hep B. I had no clue at the time what was happening. It was downhill all the way since then, until we started biomed this year to try to turn the tide. He's now 20.

You are so right to be cautious. Follow your gut and don't be pressured into anything. There's plenty of time to do your research and make educated decisions later.

patti

[Guest guest]

Lila,

That is shocking! I can't believe the nurse could make a mistake like that, really terrible.

[Guest guest]

Mellissa,

That is a very hard question. Know one really knows. Vaccines can have

immediate consequences, or the adverse effects can be delayed showing

up as allergies, ear infections, etc, etc. If she is still developing

nrmally and is not showing signs of immune system overload like

recurring upper respiratory infections you are probably pretty safe. I

would think ong and hrd before giving anymore vaccines. Then pick and

choose the ones you want, and wait and see. My persoanl feeling is nay

illness withing thirty days a a vaccination could be a sign of immun

system overload. There are quite a few on this group that will never

vaccinate again. The thimerisol is not the only thing to worry about.

There is also aluminum, formaldehide, and a whole lot of toxic shit in

those vaccines. You wshould really do more reseacrch before you give

anymore vaccines. Is this your first baby?

Peggy.

> Thanks. I forgot to mention I do have that book as well and have

read her

> recommended vaccination schedule.

>

> Based on past experiences, is my daughter " out of the woods " from her

past

> vaccinations causing any problems?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do have that book and have been referring back to it. That is why I decided to separate the MMR from her recommendations. I will order the other book today from Amazon.

[Guest guest]

Patti,

By the time I got my post finished, yours was already up! I wasn't even sure if you posted to EoH. Glad to see you do.

PS. I may be joining you and for the DC Romp! : )pphawkins@... wrote:

Are we ever out of the woods?????

My son regressed when he was 14-15, following boosters and the newly required series of Hep B. I had no clue at the time what was happening. It was downhill all the way since then, until we started biomed this year to try to turn the tide. He's now 20.

You are so right to be cautious. Follow your gut and don't be pressured into anything. There's plenty of time to do your research and make educated decisions later.

patti

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I've read the many responses to your question, but I wanted to add a

little more.

My daughter received all her vaccinations up to 15 months (no MMR)

and she is now 22 months. At 3 months, she was babbling. After her

4 month shots, she slept for two days and stopped babbling. Stupid

me, I thought the sleep was a great break for me and I didn't

connect the timing of the lost babbling to the shot until a year

later.

I did start taking her to speech therapy at 8 months, though. At

the time, I was only concerned that she wasn't making any language

sounds, but the SLP showed me that she wasn't really communicating --

no pointing, little eye-contact, little to no mommy/baby back and

forth. She also had some lost skills like waving, which probably

resulted from the additional vaccines. She also had some sensory

and feeding issues. At this point, she still doesn't have a

diagnosis, but I think she would have been PDD-NOS had we intervened

with therapy and especially some biomed. Right now, she is doing

really great and at the moment is pretty indistinguishable from her

peers, except by people who know what to do for. In fact, she's

singing " Ring Around the Rosy " right now (nothing like a good Plague

song!).

My daughter showed some signs early on. Your daughter isn't showing

signs, which is great! I love that you've done your homework, are

questioning this, and that you're following Cave's schedule. I may

be absolutely crazy, but I believe the statistic that about 15% of

people have impaired ability to detox. If you have even the

slightest indication that your daughter might be one of these, I

would stop vaccinating. Indications include any slow development on

her part, issues with siblings, odd health issues with you or her

father, significant mental illness in the family, Alzheimer's, ADHD,

or learning disabilities in the family. (Any possible Asperger's

for you or your husband? Do you both excel socially?)

If any of these are a factor, stop. If not, proceed cautiously. I

am pro-SAFE-vaccination. While I don't think the current vaccines

we have are truly safe (because of additives besides thimerosal and

because some of them are not even effective), I do think vaccines

have some value. If your daughter is free of any risk factors, you

have to ask yourself your own comfort level. You are proceeding as

safely as you can and your daughter is showing no signs of inability

to handle it. Definitely ask for the titers and don't give any more

mercury.

As for her being " out of the woods " -- no, I'm sorry, but she isn't

out of the woods yet. There are countless stories of children who

developed normally until 2 years or 2.5 years and then started

regressing. Our doctors tell us 3 years old is the magic number and

when we can rest easy that our daughter won't be regressing

further.

That means watch her like a hawk! I am ready to absolutely pounce

at any sign of regression, but of course I already have a lot of the

pieces in place (the right doctors, course of treatment, etc.). The

moment you sense anything not right with her, stop. Because I

firmly believe developmental delays are treatable, I think at that

point you take take biomedical action to repair the damage. But

until then, you could give her the benefit of the doubt that she is

in the 85% that can actually process this horrible stuff. You've

done what you can to limit her exposures in other areas with organic

food, etc. (I am assuming you don't live near a mercury-spewing

plant). I would say, proceed, but very cautiously.

You're doing such a great job, I would love to be able to tell you

everything will be fine, but I just can't. You have all this going

for you -- informed mom, no signs of trouble, vaccinating as safe as

possible, and she's halfway to 3 already. You are doing well, keep

it up!

Dawn

> Hello, My name is and I have a daughter who is 15 months

> old. Unfortunately, I believed my Ped when he told me that all

the

> vaccinations he uses are mecury free. I went ahead and let him

give

> my daughter all the required vaccinations at the wellness visits

up

> to her 12 month.

>

> She has not had any side affects from receiving them, thankfully

and

> seems to be developing normally.

>

> As this connection has hit the airwaves recently I decided before

> allowing her to get her 15 month booster of HIB & DTAP I would

read

> EOH. Boy am I glad I did, I went to my Ped's office and asked to

> read the vaccination insert and saw that the HIB he is using STILL

> has mecury in it! I am sick I didn't ask to read this before.

The

> DTAP reads a trace is added.

>

> I already told me Ped even before I read EOH that we would be

giving

> the MMR as individual shots and delay them to start at 18 months

old.

>

> My question is...her 15 month appt is Monday. I bought an extra

copy

> of the book to give my Ped which I am sure he won't read.

Obviously,

> I am not allowing her to get the HIB he has so do I have them run

> titers on her to check her levels for HIB & DTAP? Or do I have

him

> order the HIB that is mecury free?

>

> Also, is she out of the woods with her shots she has already

received

> as far as not showing signs of any delays? Would she already show

> signs of a problem from the HIB & DTAP that she got at 2,4,6

months?

>

> Sorry to ask so many questions. I am sick to my stomach after

> reading the book. I just want to make the best decision for my

> daughter on Monday.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

[Guest guest]

,

Please do!!!! It's gonna be fun!

patti

On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 07:26:51 -0700 (PDT) jensewspa <jensewspa@...> writes:

Patti,

By the time I got my post finished, yours was already up! I wasn't even sure if you posted to EoH. Glad to see you do.

PS. I may be joining you and for the DC Romp! : )

[Guest guest]

Yes Deb,

You are right, there is a very serious type of measles, and also

mumps that only vaccinated people get. I am pretty sure its call A

typical. It is only know in people taht have been vaccinated. My

understanding is the rash comes first and starts at the feet. Then

the virus goes into the body. Its supposed to be the other way around.

Peggy

-- In EOHarm , " Deborah " <dkahn@u...> wrote:

> Hi Deb,

>

> I keep hearing this about vaccines making diseases milder, but I've

> never seen any medical research to back it up. Do you have anything

> in writing? Clinical research?

>

> I've also heard that children who get measles or chickenpox after

> vaccine may get cases that are not milder, but abnormal (there is a

> particular term which I can't remember) and actually more dangerous.

[Guest guest]

The killed measles vaccine is the vaccine they used in the early 60's. I received it, and, around a year later I had atypical measles. It certainly wasn't the measles that every playmate of mine had. I was very sick!

Am J Med Sci. 1981 Jan-Feb;281(1):51-5. Related Articles, Links

Atypical measles syndrome: unusual hepatic, pulmonary, and immunologic aspects.

Frey HM, Krugman S.

The atypical measles syndrome is a relatively new disease that was first recognized 15 years ago. Initially, it occurred in children who were exposed to wild measles virus several years after they were immunized with killed measles vaccine. It was characterized by a two- to three-day prodrome of high fever, cough, headache, and myalgia followed by a rash that resembled Rocky Mountain spotted fever, scarlet fever, or varicella and associated with roentgenographic evidence of pneumonia with or without pleural effusion. This report highlights three unusual manifestations of this syndrome: 1) transient hepatitis, 2) persistence of pulmonary lesions for several years, and 3) occurrence of excessively high measles hemagglutination-inhibition antibody titers. Today, this syndrome occurs predominantly in adolescents and young adults.

Publication Types:

Case Reports

PMID: 7468641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

,

My rude awakening was when my son was 7 months old. The nurse gave him

the injections for a 15 month old! My son got someone else's MMR shot

and then given his DPT#3 and HIB#3 on top of it. Never again!

Lila

Message: 8

Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 09:12:36 EDT

From: aaoccasion@...

Subject: Re: Re: Intro and question

Where are we at in this world when as parents we have to protect our

children from the very people who are supposed to be doing the protecting?

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.10/43 - Release Date: 7/6/05

[Guest guest]

,

That is a smashing idea. I am glad someone finally said something. Not only the size of the font, but those who use all caps aren't very computer savvy. All caps in computer talk is YELLING! Etiquette please....

Unless someone has vision difficulties small font is appropriate......

Thanks !

[Guest guest]

,

Get the book How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctorby Mendelsohn,

After reading that I realized a couple things, first off, if I wasn't going to get my baby vaccinated then there was really no reason to go to well baby checkups. Liam is 10 months, the healthiest baby I know or have ever know. Vaccine free, sees the chiropractor, drinks his noni juice --not a care in the world.

I wish I could say the same for Gavin, my 8.5 y/o mercury poisoned son.

After you read that book (written by a pediatrician by the way) it will change your ideas about doctors.

Also, I see you were already planning on seperating the MMR, have you read "What your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccinations" by Dr. Cave. If not that is a good book.

You can request that your doctor order mercury free Hib and DTaP in for you (I would NOT even accept one with a "trace" amount it in for several reasons) mercury causes problems as it accumulates in the body. Why chance it?

Your daughter sound fine, you say she's meeting all the milestones. But I wouldn't add anymore mercury to her total. There is enough in the environment too.

This is YOUR decision.

You can put off those appts.

My oldest, unfortunately had all his shots EXCEPT the 4 year DTP and MMR boosters. At that time I wrote a religious exemption.

jenny

-----Original Message-----From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ]On Behalf Of DeborahSent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:05 AMEOHarm Subject: Re: Intro and questionHi ,Why don't you cancel the appointment on Monday and give yourself 2 weeks or a month to complete your research? This pediatrician hasn't done too well so far in giving you accurate information, so I think you need to do your own thinking and your own digging.Deborah> Hello, My name is and I have a daughter who is 15 months > old. Unfortunately, I believed my Ped when he told me that all the > vaccinations he uses are mecury free. I went ahead and let him give > my daughter all the required vaccinations at the wellness visits up > to her 12 month. > > She has not had any side affects from receiving them, thankfully and > seems to be developing normally. > > As this connection has hit the airwaves recently I decided before > allowing her to get her 15 month booster of HIB & DTAP I would read > EOH. Boy am I glad I did, I went to my Ped's office and asked to > read the vaccination insert and saw that the HIB he is using STILL > has mecury in it! I am sick I didn't ask to read this before. The > DTAP reads a trace is added. > > I already told me Ped even before I read EOH that we would be giving > the MMR as individual shots and delay them to start at 18 months old.> > My question is...her 15 month appt is Monday. I bought an extra copy > of the book to give my Ped which I am sure he won't read. Obviously, > I am not allowing her to get the HIB he has so do I have them run > titers on her to check her levels for HIB & DTAP? Or do I have him > order the HIB that is mecury free? > > Also, is she out of the woods with her shots she has already received > as far as not showing signs of any delays? Would she already show > signs of a problem from the HIB & DTAP that she got at 2,4,6 months?> > Sorry to ask so many questions. I am sick to my stomach after > reading the book. I just want to make the best decision for my > daughter on Monday.> > Thanks in advance,>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, atypical is the term I was groping for. Thanks. And thank you

for the additional details on the characteristics of this sort of

measles.

Deborah

> > Hi Deb,

> >

> > I keep hearing this about vaccines making diseases milder, but

I've

> > never seen any medical research to back it up. Do you have

anything

> > in writing? Clinical research?

> >

> > I've also heard that children who get measles or chickenpox

after

> > vaccine may get cases that are not milder, but abnormal (there

is a

> > particular term which I can't remember) and actually more

dangerous.

[Guest guest]

By all means.........we understand.