Re: school vent already!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 8:09:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< My guess is that the school furnishes the crayons, paper, etc., >>

Hahahahahahahahahaha!! None of the schools my kids have attended EVER

furnished those supplies. They did however give you a list of the materials

the kids needed to bring to school. Until high school, the list was sent out

with class assignments, so you could have the supplies before school started.

And we never had to buy more than one box of tissues per child per year.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 8:09:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< My guess is that the school furnishes the crayons, paper, etc., >>

Hahahahahahahahahaha!! None of the schools my kids have attended EVER

furnished those supplies. They did however give you a list of the materials

the kids needed to bring to school. Until high school, the list was sent out

with class assignments, so you could have the supplies before school started.

And we never had to buy more than one box of tissues per child per year.

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 9:05:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< We covered those " home " skills when I was in grade school. Has education

changed that much.>>

Must have because we never covered those skills and thanks to the Navy, I was

in schools all over the country! Washing hands after using the bathroom was

the only home skills we worked on in schools.

<<MHMR is sending a skills trainer to our home to help me

teach and how to take care of their home unassisted. Should I

cancel? >>

I guess if they didn't cover that in school and they aren't being taught at

home, someone should show them. You're lucky MHMR is willing to teach them

that ... is there a charge for it?

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 9:05:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bspyle@... writes:

<< We covered those " home " skills when I was in grade school. Has education

changed that much.>>

Must have because we never covered those skills and thanks to the Navy, I was

in schools all over the country! Washing hands after using the bathroom was

the only home skills we worked on in schools.

<<MHMR is sending a skills trainer to our home to help me

teach and how to take care of their home unassisted. Should I

cancel? >>

I guess if they didn't cover that in school and they aren't being taught at

home, someone should show them. You're lucky MHMR is willing to teach them

that ... is there a charge for it?

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 9:26:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

gboughton@... writes:

<< welll they will be needing the bandage

that

they sent me because I will put a hurt on them even if it is just MY LOUD

VOICE hurting their ears!!!! >>

Maybe you need to send a little kit of your own to the teacher Gail! ;-)

Now what kind of suggestions could we come up with for you to use ....

glasses to help them open their eyes and see Ted as an individual!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/11/2001 9:26:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

gboughton@... writes:

<< welll they will be needing the bandage

that

they sent me because I will put a hurt on them even if it is just MY LOUD

VOICE hurting their ears!!!! >>

Maybe you need to send a little kit of your own to the teacher Gail! ;-)

Now what kind of suggestions could we come up with for you to use ....

glasses to help them open their eyes and see Ted as an individual!

Cheryl in VA

[Guest guest]

I haven't read everything in the thread yet, but the key word here seems

to be " need. "

If brushing or dental health were an issue, I'd agree that mid day

brushing was a good thing to do--Corey had to when her braces were

on--lots of kids do with braces. That creates a need. But no need, no

do, imo.

Judi (moving down the posts)

Re: school vent already!

<<My guess is that the school furnishes the crayons, paper, etc., Gail.

Why don't you ask them?

And I would be thrilled to know my kid was going to be brushing his

teeth after lunch at school!

granny>>

Hi Granny,

I usually love your practical and down to earth advice. My guess is

that all the other kids get a supply list with typical school materials

on it. I have parented 2 other children that went to school and this is

how it was.

Brushing after lunch just isn't anything that thrills me. Ted doesn't

have a cavity in his head and when I take him to the dentist, he has

little or no plaque. I'd be WAAAY more thrilled it they wouldn't call

me 3 times a day with ridiculous things to say! I am rather fussy about

our toothbrushes and just knowing them and their inadequacies I'd just

rather not have Ted working on hygiene DAILY as part of the curriculum

That is just so lame. They are just so lame and it make me furious that

just because Ted has Down syndrome that he is subjected to what THEY

want to do with him. I am his mother and I am only sending him to

school for some social situations that I cannot provide and academics.

If the majority

of other kids at school are not doing this, why does Ted have to do

it??? I don't

want that for him. It may be fine for someone that wants that or needs

that but I just don't! Gail

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

[Guest guest]

I haven't read everything in the thread yet, but the key word here seems

to be " need. "

If brushing or dental health were an issue, I'd agree that mid day

brushing was a good thing to do--Corey had to when her braces were

on--lots of kids do with braces. That creates a need. But no need, no

do, imo.

Judi (moving down the posts)

Re: school vent already!

<<My guess is that the school furnishes the crayons, paper, etc., Gail.

Why don't you ask them?

And I would be thrilled to know my kid was going to be brushing his

teeth after lunch at school!

granny>>

Hi Granny,

I usually love your practical and down to earth advice. My guess is

that all the other kids get a supply list with typical school materials

on it. I have parented 2 other children that went to school and this is

how it was.

Brushing after lunch just isn't anything that thrills me. Ted doesn't

have a cavity in his head and when I take him to the dentist, he has

little or no plaque. I'd be WAAAY more thrilled it they wouldn't call

me 3 times a day with ridiculous things to say! I am rather fussy about

our toothbrushes and just knowing them and their inadequacies I'd just

rather not have Ted working on hygiene DAILY as part of the curriculum

That is just so lame. They are just so lame and it make me furious that

just because Ted has Down syndrome that he is subjected to what THEY

want to do with him. I am his mother and I am only sending him to

school for some social situations that I cannot provide and academics.

If the majority

of other kids at school are not doing this, why does Ted have to do

it??? I don't

want that for him. It may be fine for someone that wants that or needs

that but I just don't! Gail

Click reply to all for messages to go to the list. Just hit reply for

messages to go to the sender of the message.

[Guest guest]

I have to jump in here as an MH teacher. I must say in my 14 years of

teaching MH most parents are NOT like the parents on this list--most are

very unsure of what to do with their children, how to teach them anything

(including self-help/daily living skills)...so the schools/MH classrooms

have provided the service of teaching, or at least supplementing, those

" home " skills that are critical to daily life and being accepted in our

community. Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

what are school/academic skills. They struggle, like all of you, with just

daily day in and day out life of raising a child with a disability. Most of

them haven't given serious thought to can my child independently and

effectively brush his teeth on a daily basis, can my child work a microwave

oven, can my child plan an appropriate meal for him/herself. Perhaps they

haven't been actively involved in support groups, haven't researched things

about DS (and other various disabilities), haven't learned about inclusion

and the possibilities there. These are not bad parents, they're wonderful

parents.

Most of my kids have been self-contained except for going out for a

class here or there...I've had seven kids with DS. I've always had my kids

bring in toothbrushes, toothpaste, hairbrush, comb..because those have been

areas these kids needed the extra practice in and I KNOW that many of my

kids come to school without brushing their teeth and I often wondered about

their hair. But, as a parent, I realize mornings are hectic and when you're

trying to get your child with a disability out the door, often along with

2-3 other kids, sometimes those things don't take priority. We always did

grooming skills as part of our arrival routine. Most of the kids did it

also after lunch. Of course, at those times, my kids were in my MH class,

self-contained and everyone followed that routine after lunch. I would

never take one of my kids out of a mainstream class to come brush their

teeth, but in my class that was fine and just as important/relevant as

learning about Roman Emperors or something.

I agree that the IEP is the key in Ted's case. If you specifically

don't want him brushing his teeth at school, let the teacher know...I,

personally, wouldn't have minded that and would have supported you 100% in

your efforts to make that something that you would be responsible for at

home. Ideally, that's the way it should be, but for many families it isn't

and someone needs to step in and work on those type of skills. I'm guessing

the supply list the teacher sent to you was the list she sent to all the

kids, it wasn't individualized for each student. I'm not sure of Ted's

placement...is he strictly MH, does he spend time in the DH class, how many

classes is he included in the " regular " classroom?? From the vast majority

of MH classes that I know of in OH the curriculum is very much not

academically based--it is focused a lot on communication, self-help/daily

living and vocational skills. I had years where I never asked my students

to bring in pencils or crayons or paper. We rarely used those things and if

we did the school provided those things. If my students were mainstreamed

a lot into the DH classroom or into a regular education classroom they would

have an additional supply list which might have included pencils, pens,

colored pencils, notebook paper, calculator...

Being on this list has really opened my eyes to many things and I'm

grateful for that because I think it will help me more appropriately plan,

prepare and advocate for Mac's future education. I, too, hope that most

daily living/self-help skills will be taught by me in our home or picked up

naturally like most children learn them. My hope for Mac, currently, is

that he will be able to function in the typical educational setting as long

as possible and/or as frequently as possible and receive more direct,

specific instruction in a DH classroom as needed. I want his education to

be relevant and meaningful to his future as a productive, happy and

independent adult based on his true abilities. That may mean he won't

participate in the study of Roman Emperors or other stuff that will not have

a direct impact on him as an adult and that may only frustrate him.

I do not currently feel that he MH classroom would be appropriate for him

based on my professional experience working with the MH system in our

county. I see the MH classroom for those students with VERY limited

academic skills and a great need for more intense instruction in the areas I

mentioned before. I do want and expect more than that for/from him, but for

some kids the MH classroom is a the perfect setting!

Obviously whoever sent you the " first aid " kit knew you were not going

to like what they proposed. It was a nice thought to try and soften the

blow, but it was also a major cop-out to not call and set up a mtg. to

discuss this in person or, at least, over the phone. Good luck!!

Jill

[Guest guest]

I have to jump in here as an MH teacher. I must say in my 14 years of

teaching MH most parents are NOT like the parents on this list--most are

very unsure of what to do with their children, how to teach them anything

(including self-help/daily living skills)...so the schools/MH classrooms

have provided the service of teaching, or at least supplementing, those

" home " skills that are critical to daily life and being accepted in our

community. Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

what are school/academic skills. They struggle, like all of you, with just

daily day in and day out life of raising a child with a disability. Most of

them haven't given serious thought to can my child independently and

effectively brush his teeth on a daily basis, can my child work a microwave

oven, can my child plan an appropriate meal for him/herself. Perhaps they

haven't been actively involved in support groups, haven't researched things

about DS (and other various disabilities), haven't learned about inclusion

and the possibilities there. These are not bad parents, they're wonderful

parents.

Most of my kids have been self-contained except for going out for a

class here or there...I've had seven kids with DS. I've always had my kids

bring in toothbrushes, toothpaste, hairbrush, comb..because those have been

areas these kids needed the extra practice in and I KNOW that many of my

kids come to school without brushing their teeth and I often wondered about

their hair. But, as a parent, I realize mornings are hectic and when you're

trying to get your child with a disability out the door, often along with

2-3 other kids, sometimes those things don't take priority. We always did

grooming skills as part of our arrival routine. Most of the kids did it

also after lunch. Of course, at those times, my kids were in my MH class,

self-contained and everyone followed that routine after lunch. I would

never take one of my kids out of a mainstream class to come brush their

teeth, but in my class that was fine and just as important/relevant as

learning about Roman Emperors or something.

I agree that the IEP is the key in Ted's case. If you specifically

don't want him brushing his teeth at school, let the teacher know...I,

personally, wouldn't have minded that and would have supported you 100% in

your efforts to make that something that you would be responsible for at

home. Ideally, that's the way it should be, but for many families it isn't

and someone needs to step in and work on those type of skills. I'm guessing

the supply list the teacher sent to you was the list she sent to all the

kids, it wasn't individualized for each student. I'm not sure of Ted's

placement...is he strictly MH, does he spend time in the DH class, how many

classes is he included in the " regular " classroom?? From the vast majority

of MH classes that I know of in OH the curriculum is very much not

academically based--it is focused a lot on communication, self-help/daily

living and vocational skills. I had years where I never asked my students

to bring in pencils or crayons or paper. We rarely used those things and if

we did the school provided those things. If my students were mainstreamed

a lot into the DH classroom or into a regular education classroom they would

have an additional supply list which might have included pencils, pens,

colored pencils, notebook paper, calculator...

Being on this list has really opened my eyes to many things and I'm

grateful for that because I think it will help me more appropriately plan,

prepare and advocate for Mac's future education. I, too, hope that most

daily living/self-help skills will be taught by me in our home or picked up

naturally like most children learn them. My hope for Mac, currently, is

that he will be able to function in the typical educational setting as long

as possible and/or as frequently as possible and receive more direct,

specific instruction in a DH classroom as needed. I want his education to

be relevant and meaningful to his future as a productive, happy and

independent adult based on his true abilities. That may mean he won't

participate in the study of Roman Emperors or other stuff that will not have

a direct impact on him as an adult and that may only frustrate him.

I do not currently feel that he MH classroom would be appropriate for him

based on my professional experience working with the MH system in our

county. I see the MH classroom for those students with VERY limited

academic skills and a great need for more intense instruction in the areas I

mentioned before. I do want and expect more than that for/from him, but for

some kids the MH classroom is a the perfect setting!

Obviously whoever sent you the " first aid " kit knew you were not going

to like what they proposed. It was a nice thought to try and soften the

blow, but it was also a major cop-out to not call and set up a mtg. to

discuss this in person or, at least, over the phone. Good luck!!

Jill

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2001 11:53:20 AM Central Daylight Time,

thrill@... writes:

> I see the MH classroom for those students with VERY limited

> academic skills and a great need for more intense instruction in the areas I

>

Hi Jill,

I get what you're saying, but the above statement does indeed make me sit

back. Those of us that have been on this list for years recall Tina's

('s mom) struggle to get included and give some academic

instruction. The class he was in didn't work much on academics at all if I

recall right. I talked to her alot back then.......she sure is quiet since

Darius has gotten big enough to get around. lol.... Perhaps she would share

with you exactly what happened after she got him into his home school, out of

the type of classroom that you're talking about. :-)

My point being that you do have it right that parents really don't know what

they should ask for and trust the teachers. (BTDT in preschool) and teachers

seem to be stuck in an IQ rut where if the IQ or if not tested the

observations look like a lower IQ they decide they need to teach life skills.

(still there and fighting that) My guess is some parents don't know that

there is more they can have their child try to achieve, I keep bumping up

against life skills. My answer lately has been....MATH AND READING ARE Life

SKILLS NEEDED TO LIVE INDEPENDANTLY....after all you need to figure out

money, buget, read directions etc etc. One reason I let her go in MSMI field

trips is because they don't go to often AND they usually involve a skill like

paying for a treat at DQ or making a list and purchasing the goodies to make

a treat and using money IS one of her goals. Life skills? i don't make beds

very often, just pull the covers up over the bed in the morning...why make it

you'll just mess it up again, hehehe. :-)

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2001 11:53:20 AM Central Daylight Time,

thrill@... writes:

> I see the MH classroom for those students with VERY limited

> academic skills and a great need for more intense instruction in the areas I

>

Hi Jill,

I get what you're saying, but the above statement does indeed make me sit

back. Those of us that have been on this list for years recall Tina's

('s mom) struggle to get included and give some academic

instruction. The class he was in didn't work much on academics at all if I

recall right. I talked to her alot back then.......she sure is quiet since

Darius has gotten big enough to get around. lol.... Perhaps she would share

with you exactly what happened after she got him into his home school, out of

the type of classroom that you're talking about. :-)

My point being that you do have it right that parents really don't know what

they should ask for and trust the teachers. (BTDT in preschool) and teachers

seem to be stuck in an IQ rut where if the IQ or if not tested the

observations look like a lower IQ they decide they need to teach life skills.

(still there and fighting that) My guess is some parents don't know that

there is more they can have their child try to achieve, I keep bumping up

against life skills. My answer lately has been....MATH AND READING ARE Life

SKILLS NEEDED TO LIVE INDEPENDANTLY....after all you need to figure out

money, buget, read directions etc etc. One reason I let her go in MSMI field

trips is because they don't go to often AND they usually involve a skill like

paying for a treat at DQ or making a list and purchasing the goodies to make

a treat and using money IS one of her goals. Life skills? i don't make beds

very often, just pull the covers up over the bed in the morning...why make it

you'll just mess it up again, hehehe. :-)

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2001 3:05:12 PM Central Daylight Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> glasses to help them open their eyes and see Ted as an individual!

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

Oh picked up a pair of those coke bottle glasses out of the dentists

goodie box last time....maybe a pair of those?

Joy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/2001 3:05:12 PM Central Daylight Time,

wildwards@... writes:

> glasses to help them open their eyes and see Ted as an individual!

> Cheryl in VA

>

>

Oh picked up a pair of those coke bottle glasses out of the dentists

goodie box last time....maybe a pair of those?

Joy

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Hey I thought I was the only one not practicing bedmaking skills myself!!!

I also agree with Joy that reading and math and I would include writing in

there, are the life skills that not only our kids but all kids should be

taught and that should be the major goals to achieve.

I dont know, maybe because amanda can read and do some math and use a

calculator pretty well and write and speak well, that I feel so strongly

about this. But as a teacher, I also feel that all kids can learn and not

only how to brush their teeth and make a bed, but academic skills and how to

be an independent, productive person in society.

Wow this is way too much thinking for someone still on vaca and really didnt

even go away yet!!!

~ Mom to amanda almost DS 11 and 7

[Guest guest]

Jill,

Hey I thought I was the only one not practicing bedmaking skills myself!!!

I also agree with Joy that reading and math and I would include writing in

there, are the life skills that not only our kids but all kids should be

taught and that should be the major goals to achieve.

I dont know, maybe because amanda can read and do some math and use a

calculator pretty well and write and speak well, that I feel so strongly

about this. But as a teacher, I also feel that all kids can learn and not

only how to brush their teeth and make a bed, but academic skills and how to

be an independent, productive person in society.

Wow this is way too much thinking for someone still on vaca and really didnt

even go away yet!!!

~ Mom to amanda almost DS 11 and 7

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 11:53:00 AM Central Daylight Time, thrill@...

writes:

> . Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

> with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

> what are school/academic skills. They struggle, like all of you, with just

> daily day in and day out life of raising a child with a disability. Most of

> them haven't given serious thought to can my child independently and

>

A long time ago another mother and I went with the director or whatever

he was called to visit all the " special " classes. No one had heard of

inclusion at that time. He said the biggest problem they had was retarded

parents. No academics were being taught. Yet many mothers were so thrilled

to have any school that they didn't care what was taught, didn't see the

difference. And probably many parents still today blindly accept IEP's that

are handed to them to sign, and don't know it can be any different. It's

probably easier for the parent ane while they are well-meaning and love their

children just as much they are short-changing them. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 11:53:00 AM Central Daylight Time, thrill@...

writes:

> . Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

> with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

> what are school/academic skills. They struggle, like all of you, with just

> daily day in and day out life of raising a child with a disability. Most of

> them haven't given serious thought to can my child independently and

>

A long time ago another mother and I went with the director or whatever

he was called to visit all the " special " classes. No one had heard of

inclusion at that time. He said the biggest problem they had was retarded

parents. No academics were being taught. Yet many mothers were so thrilled

to have any school that they didn't care what was taught, didn't see the

difference. And probably many parents still today blindly accept IEP's that

are handed to them to sign, and don't know it can be any different. It's

probably easier for the parent ane while they are well-meaning and love their

children just as much they are short-changing them. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 5:27:56 PM Central Daylight Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

> . Life skills? i don't make beds

> very often, just pull the covers up over the bed in the morning...why make

> it

> you'll just mess it up again, hehehe. :-)

>

> Joy

>

informed me the other day that he didn't want me to TOUCH his

bed. I said OK because I can remember when I didn't want my mom to touch

mine. I change the sheets when needed but otherwise leave it alone. And he

informs me when they need changing. He did it himself for some time after I

got hurt in a fall but it is a struggle for him so when I was better I took

over again. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 5:27:56 PM Central Daylight Time,

JTesmer799@... writes:

> . Life skills? i don't make beds

> very often, just pull the covers up over the bed in the morning...why make

> it

> you'll just mess it up again, hehehe. :-)

>

> Joy

>

informed me the other day that he didn't want me to TOUCH his

bed. I said OK because I can remember when I didn't want my mom to touch

mine. I change the sheets when needed but otherwise leave it alone. And he

informs me when they need changing. He did it himself for some time after I

got hurt in a fall but it is a struggle for him so when I was better I took

over again. Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 7:07:40 PM Central Daylight Time,

david@... writes:

> Sharon Scheyd, a mom from Louisiana, tells a wonderful story about a kid in

> a school 'life skills room'...

>

> making the bed

> unmaking the bed

> making the bed

> unmaking the bed

>

> Finally, looking up at the teacher, he asks...

>

> " Who _sleeps_ in this bed, anyway? "

>

> Cheers,

>

>

I love it. Another case of the kid being smarter than the teacher.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/11/01 7:07:40 PM Central Daylight Time,

david@... writes:

> Sharon Scheyd, a mom from Louisiana, tells a wonderful story about a kid in

> a school 'life skills room'...

>

> making the bed

> unmaking the bed

> making the bed

> unmaking the bed

>

> Finally, looking up at the teacher, he asks...

>

> " Who _sleeps_ in this bed, anyway? "

>

> Cheers,

>

>

I love it. Another case of the kid being smarter than the teacher.

Jessie

[Guest guest]

<< Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

> with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

> what are school/academic skills. >>

Hmm... I wonder how many of these parents have been beaten down,

intimidated, and scoffed by systems if they ask for more intense academic

education and less life skills education. I, for one, have had to file a due

process against our distict to have my son get the education that he

deserves, while the kids whose parents are less forcefull sit in

self-contained classrooms learning lifeskills. I wonder how many parents

would get a package with a kleenex, bandage, and hersheys kiss and fight? I

wonder how many of them would jump at the chance for a teacher to APPROACH

THEM and ask if they could introduce Reading, Math, and Writing to their IEP

as opposed to bedmaking, making PBJs and walking in a straight line. It

seems to me that there are lots of parents on this list that would like, get,

fight for more than lifeskills.

[Guest guest]

<< Many (not all, but probably most) of the parents I've worked

> with don't differentiate between what are skills to be learned at home and

> what are school/academic skills. >>

Hmm... I wonder how many of these parents have been beaten down,

intimidated, and scoffed by systems if they ask for more intense academic

education and less life skills education. I, for one, have had to file a due

process against our distict to have my son get the education that he

deserves, while the kids whose parents are less forcefull sit in

self-contained classrooms learning lifeskills. I wonder how many parents

would get a package with a kleenex, bandage, and hersheys kiss and fight? I

wonder how many of them would jump at the chance for a teacher to APPROACH

THEM and ask if they could introduce Reading, Math, and Writing to their IEP

as opposed to bedmaking, making PBJs and walking in a straight line. It

seems to me that there are lots of parents on this list that would like, get,

fight for more than lifeskills.

[Guest guest]

> writes: Hey I thought I was the only one not practicing bedmaking

skills myself!!!

Sharon Scheyd, a mom from Louisiana, tells a wonderful story about a kid in

a school 'life skills room'...

making the bed

unmaking the bed

making the bed

unmaking the bed

Finally, looking up at the teacher, he asks...

" Who _sleeps_ in this bed, anyway? "

Cheers,