Re: Re: No Time to Relax

[Guest guest]

We probably have more significant issues to deal with than arguing again and

again about individuals with disabilities and level of competence required for

voting, so I will wave the surrender flag for the moment...no doubt I will rag

about it again during the next election cycle.

Have a great Monday Ron and everyone.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And

I think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck,

Limbaugh and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND

Luke should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while

back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided

who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So

now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants

the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take

a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking

,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of

life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I

feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else

is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We probably have more significant issues to deal with than arguing again and

again about individuals with disabilities and level of competence required for

voting, so I will wave the surrender flag for the moment...no doubt I will rag

about it again during the next election cycle.

Have a great Monday Ron and everyone.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And

I think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck,

Limbaugh and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND

Luke should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while

back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided

who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So

now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants

the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take

a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking

,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of

life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I

feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else

is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just have to say that my son who is 28 with DS would pick whoever I told

him to pick.  I would have to read everything to him and tell him who to vote

for.  Of course if I say pick this one as he wants to help you and do not pick

this one as he is trying to hurt you, he would pick who I say.  But all of his

life he has been going by what I say or suggest as he trusts me and my

judgment.  I get both sides of this and have not registered him to vote as yet. 

I am thinking about it but have mixed emotions.  I am sure we all have most

things in common and that is to take care of our loved ones.  We do not have to

agree on EVERYTHING!  Thanks for giving me lots to think about as you all always

do.  I love this message board.

Shirley

From: ron_n_luke <roncress@...>

Subject: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

 

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And I

think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck, Limbaugh

and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND Luke

should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking ,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just have to say that my son who is 28 with DS would pick whoever I told

him to pick.  I would have to read everything to him and tell him who to vote

for.  Of course if I say pick this one as he wants to help you and do not pick

this one as he is trying to hurt you, he would pick who I say.  But all of his

life he has been going by what I say or suggest as he trusts me and my

judgment.  I get both sides of this and have not registered him to vote as yet. 

I am thinking about it but have mixed emotions.  I am sure we all have most

things in common and that is to take care of our loved ones.  We do not have to

agree on EVERYTHING!  Thanks for giving me lots to think about as you all always

do.  I love this message board.

Shirley

From: ron_n_luke <roncress@...>

Subject: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

 

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And I

think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck, Limbaugh

and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND Luke

should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking ,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Shirley.

I have learned so much from all of you!

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And

I think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck,

Limbaugh and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND

Luke should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while

back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided

who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So

now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants

the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take

a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking

,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of

life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I

feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else

is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Shirley.

I have learned so much from all of you!

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

But, HOW do you have someone vote who can't reliably resond to yes/no

questions?? BTW, and I always behaved such that we assumed Luke

understood everything we said! We've always felt that cognitively there's much

going on in there ---- BUT ---- without being able to respond ..... that's a

whole different skill.

Hey, Ellen voting twice is illegal unless you're in Chicago (just teasin') And

I think released felons SHOULD be allowed to vote. Hey, even Palin, Beck,

Limbaugh and the rest of those crazies are allowed to vote in my book ..... AND

Luke should/will vote when he's able to.

Ron

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

> > Here is the angle from no angel....we had this spirited debate a while

back

>

>

>

> > and I will take Ellen's part on this.

>

>

>

> > At any point in our civilization there have been people who have decided

who

>

>

>

> > can and cant have a voice in their destiny. So very recently some thoughth

>

>

>

> > only white men had the ability to have a voice .

>

>

>

> > I can remember in my life time witnessing blind people on the streets of

>

>

>

> > chicago selling pencils, money into a tin cup...because someone thought

>

>

>

> > blind people had nothing toffer but a bit more than a street beggar. So

now

>

>

>

> > even blind people can get master's degrees. Now we, the very people who

>

>

>

> > love these folks are saying my child is uncapable of telling me he wants

the

>

>

>

> > candidate who will care about people with disabilities. We can maybe take

a

>

>

>

> > guess...an educated guess that my son who has Down Syndrome would probably

>

>

>

> > prefer the candidate that would look kindly on folks with disabilities. .

For

>

>

>

> > all the corruption we see in this state/country, I cannot imagine thinking

,

>

>

>

> > pondering the morals of a person with a DD casting a vote for someone who

>

>

>

> > cares about people with disabilities. We have taught our children how to

>

>

>

> > do a great deal of things. We have imposed our morals in evry facet of

life,

>

>

>

> > hands to ourselves, dont touch yourself, , zip your pants, smile..etc. Why

>

>

>

> > would we ever think it would be immoral to teach them our political values

>

>

>

> > and coach them on voting. I have two other children without disabilities,

>

>

>

> > and believe me, we have coached them as well..they are both liberals..I

feel

>

>

>

> > I have done that job well. For the people who want to vote against the

>

>

>

> > movement, certainly they will do all they can to stop us. IPADD is for

>

>

>

> > parents of adults, but I am hoping parents with younger children are

>

>

>

> > starting to get the idea that self advocacy should /must be taken to the

>

>

>

> > voting booth. Ron, it is your sons right to cast a ballot, and your

>

>

>

> > responcibility to teach him as you have every thing else, who cares about

>

>

>

> > the disabled. My mother voted in every election she could. In the end when

>

>

>

> > she could n o longer read , bad eyesight, she would just ask me, who cares

>

>

>

> > about the poor people. I would tell her, and that is how she voted. The

>

>

>

> > bottom line is if we dont do it/ or if our kids dont do it wiht our helpp

>

>

>

> > and support..who is going to do it. Since I have been in this advocacy

>

>

>

> > seriously..we have gone from 47 to 51. We have to do it Ron, no one else

is

>

>

>

> > doing it for us. As far as leaving Illinois, the job is here and very

>

>

>

> > honestly the investment for my sons social lifestyle is here.

>

>

>

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

AMEN

________________________________

From: " marcp2@... " <marcp2@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 8:06:11 AM

Subject: Re: No Time to Relax

We did register our daughter to vote. We, however, choose to vote absentee so

we can explain the ballot to her. Does she make an informed decision, probably

not, do we make her decision for her, no. However, for us, and her " desire " to

vote; this is how we handle it. (for now)

I think there is a lot of corruption in voting in Illinois the way it is

(surprise!) but to let our loved ones who we " claim " mentally incompetent in our

court systems (for purposes of services and other reasons) have that privilege

to vote could be another contributing factor. Legally they would have a right

to vote, but is it truly " right " ? It truly depends on the individual, where

they fall in the comprehension of things and the family of that individual.

We have bigger fish to fry than a debate about which of our loved ones should

and should not vote.

>

> Surely, (I hope) there are others on this site who have children who they

feel can not/should not vote ---- or am I the lone one here?

>

> Ron,

>

> I have to agree with you on this as well. My hubby & I both agreed that our

son, would have no clue as to voting & all that it entails. We'd have to go

into the booth & read him the ballot, but there's no way he'd have any clue. For

this reason, we never registered him to vote. We figured that if he even had a

moment of attentiveness during the voting process, that we could probably

influence his vote, if we so chose. (we didn't feel that was fair)

> However, when he moved into the facility, they went & registered him to vote.

(We told them that we'd take him to vote because NO way do we trust them to

" help " him vote.....he didn't want to vote, so we didn't push it)

>

> I also work at a school of kids with disabilities. Some of them are of voting

age. Most of them are nonverbal, some with the mentality of 4 yrs or less. I

don't know of any 4 yr old that I'd trust to vote.

>

> I also know several disabled people of voting age who would be able to vote &

do.

>

> We did get registered for Selective Service when he was 18. He had gotten

several pieces of junk mail from the army, which I was tempted to fill out. But

he's never been called for duty.

>

> He has however, been selected for jury duty; at the same time I was. After

getting a letter from his dr., they decided that he wouldn't make a good juror.

>

> So, yes, you are NOT alone.

>

> Liz, mom to , 27 yrs.

>

[Guest guest]

AMEN

________________________________

From: " marcp2@... " <marcp2@...>

IPADDUnite

Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 8:06:11 AM

Subject: Re: No Time to Relax

We did register our daughter to vote. We, however, choose to vote absentee so

we can explain the ballot to her. Does she make an informed decision, probably

not, do we make her decision for her, no. However, for us, and her " desire " to

vote; this is how we handle it. (for now)

I think there is a lot of corruption in voting in Illinois the way it is

(surprise!) but to let our loved ones who we " claim " mentally incompetent in our

court systems (for purposes of services and other reasons) have that privilege

to vote could be another contributing factor. Legally they would have a right

to vote, but is it truly " right " ? It truly depends on the individual, where

they fall in the comprehension of things and the family of that individual.

We have bigger fish to fry than a debate about which of our loved ones should

and should not vote.

>

> Surely, (I hope) there are others on this site who have children who they

feel can not/should not vote ---- or am I the lone one here?

>

> Ron,

>

> I have to agree with you on this as well. My hubby & I both agreed that our

son, would have no clue as to voting & all that it entails. We'd have to go

into the booth & read him the ballot, but there's no way he'd have any clue. For

this reason, we never registered him to vote. We figured that if he even had a

moment of attentiveness during the voting process, that we could probably

influence his vote, if we so chose. (we didn't feel that was fair)

> However, when he moved into the facility, they went & registered him to vote.

(We told them that we'd take him to vote because NO way do we trust them to

" help " him vote.....he didn't want to vote, so we didn't push it)

>

> I also work at a school of kids with disabilities. Some of them are of voting

age. Most of them are nonverbal, some with the mentality of 4 yrs or less. I

don't know of any 4 yr old that I'd trust to vote.

>

> I also know several disabled people of voting age who would be able to vote &

do.

>

> We did get registered for Selective Service when he was 18. He had gotten

several pieces of junk mail from the army, which I was tempted to fill out. But

he's never been called for duty.

>

> He has however, been selected for jury duty; at the same time I was. After

getting a letter from his dr., they decided that he wouldn't make a good juror.

>

> So, yes, you are NOT alone.

>

> Liz, mom to , 27 yrs.

>

[Guest guest]

well said..I remember years ago a mother of a friend voted for any

canddidate in Chicago who had an Irish last name...or voting for a woman

because, well it was about time. NO one knows e thing about every

candidate, and some know more/some less but in the final point, assume our

kids are going to go for the people who side with our position of ;self

determination community based. I think this is important because fo rtoo

long we have not had a voice, not allowed our loved ones to have a voice and

now we are at the top of a crubmling system when it is about time we all

speak out. Something big has to change and if we dont see our people as

having rights how in the world do we expect the politicians who for the most

part see us as a pain in the butt, get it. Voting is what separates us from

other governments so it is important. and yes we bring home the balllot,

look at the news/ papers talk about it. and yes adam does vote my opinion.

and there is nothing wrong with it because he has been living my opionion

for 22 years. the

[Guest guest]

well said..I remember years ago a mother of a friend voted for any

canddidate in Chicago who had an Irish last name...or voting for a woman

because, well it was about time. NO one knows e thing about every

candidate, and some know more/some less but in the final point, assume our

kids are going to go for the people who side with our position of ;self

determination community based. I think this is important because fo rtoo

long we have not had a voice, not allowed our loved ones to have a voice and

now we are at the top of a crubmling system when it is about time we all

speak out. Something big has to change and if we dont see our people as

having rights how in the world do we expect the politicians who for the most

part see us as a pain in the butt, get it. Voting is what separates us from

other governments so it is important. and yes we bring home the balllot,

look at the news/ papers talk about it. and yes adam does vote my opinion.

and there is nothing wrong with it because he has been living my opionion

for 22 years. the

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts, Diane; very well stated.

If all of our children did vote...would it make a difference...who knows?

Interesting to ponder...

I respect everyone's right to draw their own conclusions and make their own

decision.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

You know this current discussion, brings this issue into a whole new light

for me..... Check out these thoughts.....

Okay, so, do any of us really know all the ins and outs of all of societal

issues? None of us can say that. And do most 18 year olds understand politics

really at all, or some (I mean some not all) of the seniors whose cognitive

abilities are not as sharp as they once were, or those who do not spend anytime

researching anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOO... And we as parents of our " DD " , are making

all kinds of decisions for our child/ children, based on knowing them best. No

body in the world knows everything that anyone else thinks right?

So, we do know certain thing sbout our child. They want to keep state or

government services they are entitled to right and acquire more right? That they

will have to, and most want to, live as independently as possible, to have

decent good quality assistants, and work if it is possible for them to do so,

with good supports, if needed- right? How could any of us even doubt that right?

So we do know then, that our adult child want persons who support these

agendas be their candidates right?? Why do we struggle with them voting then? If

all our adult children would be given the ability to have their wishes heard, we

may be able to change some things. THAT IS A VOTE- THEIR WISHES. Adapted to

their abilities.

I will definately sign my child up to vote, and help him in whatever way I

need to, whether it's chose the candidate for him, and poke the circle for him.

That's his way of voting. I now have no more guilt or uncertainty at all.

We already see that the candidates only tried to hurt those who didn't have

the ability to vote in Illinois, they protected those who could and would vote

them out- it is not about fair or right, it is about getting what you need.

Diane S

>

> I have to wonder if we take our kids to the temple, have we made a moral

> decision for them they would not have made

> or a Catholic church, Evangelical chapel... those are all moral decison we

> make on behalf of our children. And just because they are non verbal , do

> we really know the true intelligence, the complexity of what is going on,

> just because they cannot tell us. I am going to roll the dice and

> assume/hope my son would choose a candidate or a platform that speaks for

> people with dd. I honor all the good parents who weigh in on IPADD. We all

> do what we feel is right.

> I jsut cannot assume my son is not in his brain coming to terms with some

> of these issues. When we talk about rights, I guess I dont have a right

> to prohibit him from taking a position. And I really doubt he would vote

> for a candidate or a platform that would end him up in a state op.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your thoughts, Diane; very well stated.

If all of our children did vote...would it make a difference...who knows?

Interesting to ponder...

I respect everyone's right to draw their own conclusions and make their own

decision.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: No Time to Relax

You know this current discussion, brings this issue into a whole new light

for me..... Check out these thoughts.....

Okay, so, do any of us really know all the ins and outs of all of societal

issues? None of us can say that. And do most 18 year olds understand politics

really at all, or some (I mean some not all) of the seniors whose cognitive

abilities are not as sharp as they once were, or those who do not spend anytime

researching anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOO... And we as parents of our " DD " , are making

all kinds of decisions for our child/ children, based on knowing them best. No

body in the world knows everything that anyone else thinks right?

So, we do know certain thing sbout our child. They want to keep state or

government services they are entitled to right and acquire more right? That they

will have to, and most want to, live as independently as possible, to have

decent good quality assistants, and work if it is possible for them to do so,

with good supports, if needed- right? How could any of us even doubt that right?

So we do know then, that our adult child want persons who support these

agendas be their candidates right?? Why do we struggle with them voting then? If

all our adult children would be given the ability to have their wishes heard, we

may be able to change some things. THAT IS A VOTE- THEIR WISHES. Adapted to

their abilities.

I will definately sign my child up to vote, and help him in whatever way I

need to, whether it's chose the candidate for him, and poke the circle for him.

That's his way of voting. I now have no more guilt or uncertainty at all.

We already see that the candidates only tried to hurt those who didn't have

the ability to vote in Illinois, they protected those who could and would vote

them out- it is not about fair or right, it is about getting what you need.

Diane S

>

> I have to wonder if we take our kids to the temple, have we made a moral

> decision for them they would not have made

> or a Catholic church, Evangelical chapel... those are all moral decison we

> make on behalf of our children. And just because they are non verbal , do

> we really know the true intelligence, the complexity of what is going on,

> just because they cannot tell us. I am going to roll the dice and

> assume/hope my son would choose a candidate or a platform that speaks for

> people with dd. I honor all the good parents who weigh in on IPADD. We all

> do what we feel is right.

> I jsut cannot assume my son is not in his brain coming to terms with some

> of these issues. When we talk about rights, I guess I dont have a right

> to prohibit him from taking a position. And I really doubt he would vote

> for a candidate or a platform that would end him up in a state op.

>

[Guest guest]

 Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

 Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

I wonder if that nitwit lost her right to vote after she got convicted of voting

interferance and assault.

I'm serious thinking about setting up Angel's communicator (she's non verbal),

with photos of the candidates, their names, by office, and see if I can teach

her.

From: julianne cicarelli <cicj_2000@...>

Subject: Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

 

 Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he

and other residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years

ago when they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot,

by a woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to

vote. riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for,

I know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

I wonder if that nitwit lost her right to vote after she got convicted of voting

interferance and assault.

I'm serious thinking about setting up Angel's communicator (she's non verbal),

with photos of the candidates, their names, by office, and see if I can teach

her.

From: julianne cicarelli <cicj_2000@...>

Subject: Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

 

 Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he

and other residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years

ago when they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot,

by a woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to

vote. riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for,

I know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

,

If I could teach I'll bet Angel could, too. We can all talk more about

this when it's closer to primary season, but there are lots of options. The

touch screens available in most (or all?) precincts now, made it much easier for

and her mother, too, to cast their votes!

P.S. It really helps in the understanding when your daughter has actually MET

some of the legislators in person, believe me, could tell me right away

which candidate was her 'favorite' based on their reactions to, and interaction

or lack of interaction, with her. Some take her very seriously and others are

dismissive. Some are very natural and friendly, others not so much.

And she GETS it, I swear to God she gets it.

And she's pretty nonverbal, by the way, and VERY autistic. But I swear she gets

it at some very basic and important level.

My MIL, by the way, for years has bragged about how she votes in every election,

but essentially makes up her mind based on the darnedest things -- generally

personality of the candidate which she decides she either 'likes' or 'can't

stand' -- and I think there are lots of voters like her who base votes on

personality. So why not , too?

I'm with Ellen, though, everyone has a right to their own opinions...including

our children.

L.

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

,

If I could teach I'll bet Angel could, too. We can all talk more about

this when it's closer to primary season, but there are lots of options. The

touch screens available in most (or all?) precincts now, made it much easier for

and her mother, too, to cast their votes!

P.S. It really helps in the understanding when your daughter has actually MET

some of the legislators in person, believe me, could tell me right away

which candidate was her 'favorite' based on their reactions to, and interaction

or lack of interaction, with her. Some take her very seriously and others are

dismissive. Some are very natural and friendly, others not so much.

And she GETS it, I swear to God she gets it.

And she's pretty nonverbal, by the way, and VERY autistic. But I swear she gets

it at some very basic and important level.

My MIL, by the way, for years has bragged about how she votes in every election,

but essentially makes up her mind based on the darnedest things -- generally

personality of the candidate which she decides she either 'likes' or 'can't

stand' -- and I think there are lots of voters like her who base votes on

personality. So why not , too?

I'm with Ellen, though, everyone has a right to their own opinions...including

our children.

L.

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

Good Lord, Juli, how awful! You really have to wonder about people sometimes.

That must have been really scary for all concerned. If someone did that to us,

I'd probably start screaming right back at her!! Or would do it for me.

L.

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

Good Lord, Juli, how awful! You really have to wonder about people sometimes.

That must have been really scary for all concerned. If someone did that to us,

I'd probably start screaming right back at her!! Or would do it for me.

L.

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

I didn't read my email all weekend, so I'm just catching up with this

discussion.

Thankfully, in our country every?citizen over 18 years of age?has the right and

responsibility to vote.? People with disabilities need support to exercise this

right and responsibility.? No one is too disabled to vote--it all depends on the

level of support they need.

Personally, I see no downside to everyone exercising their right to vote.? When

you vote with your children (with?and without a disability) you are

demonstrating a very important duty you share with your community.? It is also

stepping outside of the " disability world " and reminding your community that you

and your family have a connection to disability issues, but that doesn't mean

you are " different " from everyone else.

Did you know that politicians can find out if you are registered in their

district?? And they can find out if you voted in the last election!

Do you think maybe our politicians will take us more seriously if they know that

we are all registered and that we all vote?

With passage of ADA, polling places were (slowly) made more accessible for

people with physical disabilities.? If we all vote--and I mean ALL--maybe, just

maybe, our polling places will become more accessible for everyone and our

politicians will take us seriously.

Christensen, Advisor

Self Advocacy Council of Northern Illinois

815-382-1530

clchristensen100@...

www.sacni.org

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

?

?Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

I didn't read my email all weekend, so I'm just catching up with this

discussion.

Thankfully, in our country every?citizen over 18 years of age?has the right and

responsibility to vote.? People with disabilities need support to exercise this

right and responsibility.? No one is too disabled to vote--it all depends on the

level of support they need.

Personally, I see no downside to everyone exercising their right to vote.? When

you vote with your children (with?and without a disability) you are

demonstrating a very important duty you share with your community.? It is also

stepping outside of the " disability world " and reminding your community that you

and your family have a connection to disability issues, but that doesn't mean

you are " different " from everyone else.

Did you know that politicians can find out if you are registered in their

district?? And they can find out if you voted in the last election!

Do you think maybe our politicians will take us more seriously if they know that

we are all registered and that we all vote?

With passage of ADA, polling places were (slowly) made more accessible for

people with physical disabilities.? If we all vote--and I mean ALL--maybe, just

maybe, our polling places will become more accessible for everyone and our

politicians will take us seriously.

Christensen, Advisor

Self Advocacy Council of Northern Illinois

815-382-1530

clchristensen100@...

www.sacni.org

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

?

?Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

Juli:

What traumatic experience for your son! I hope the case was decided in favor of

the residents at Riverside.

I have had my fence nearly fried to a crisp because someone in the neighborhood

didn't like the lawn signs for political candidates that I had on display and

chose to set them on fire.

As you can tell from the protracted discussion we have had about our children

and voting...politics can really get people fired up...sometimes literally!

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

Juli:

What traumatic experience for your son! I hope the case was decided in favor of

the residents at Riverside.

I have had my fence nearly fried to a crisp because someone in the neighborhood

didn't like the lawn signs for political candidates that I had on display and

chose to set them on fire.

As you can tell from the protracted discussion we have had about our children

and voting...politics can really get people fired up...sometimes literally!

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators(including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli

[Guest guest]

...I think we would all love to hear if you do set up a teaching plan for

Angel about voting...that might provide a template for others to follow.

Ellen

Ellen Garber Bronfeld

egskb@...

Re: Re: No Time to Relax

IPADDUnite

Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:59 AM

Just a note about voting. My son lives at Riverside, he and other

residents are registered voters, and are taken to vote. A few years ago when

they were voting in Linconshire their van was attacked in parking lot, by a

woman resident who screamed at them about how they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

riverside brought the woman to trial. I always tell who to vote for, I

know what legislators( including Katy Ryg) support our cause. Juli