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Hi Stacey,

Ouch! I am sorry to hear that. The 40 yard dash to the bathroom

sounds wonderful.

Yes, isn't insurance wonderful at times? I have been pretty fortunate

thus far. Even going on Enbrel went without a hitch. (knocking on

wood, keeping finger's crossed, etc.)

I seldom eat a lot right before. Glad my nights of partying and

eating White Castles or other fast food is behind me.

Things haven't been that bad as of late. The large dose of prednisone

has helped a lot. I even went to the driving range and hit a few golf

balls yesterday. I used to play quite a bit before I got ill.

Have a great Monday.

Love ya,

Al

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Hi All - & -

The vitamins I'm on- a multi with minerals (no iodine which I found at Target

for cheap). I take enzymes- " Nu-Zymes " (<A

HREF= " http://www.drpinkus.com " >www.DrPinkus.com</A>). I also do an

occasional cleansing - <A HREF= " http://www.metagenics.com " >metagenics</A>.com

has a good cleansing product (the

ImflamX) I used once and changed my diet for 20 days while I use it. It's

really hard the first time around to do the diet change and watch every

little thing you eat. Note the InflamX is very high in turmeric - very good

cleanser. I also take selenium, silver (small amounts) aspirin, extra D, B

complex, biotin, calcium (oyster shell) and a few others . . brain frog.

I've been relearning relaxing techniques too. But I still used the

propranolol - from now on I will keep it with me at all times since I can

still " get myself going " - it's just how this hyperT thing works. I'm also on

Tapazole - 10 mgs a day.

The chest pains are no fun. I'm 47 and wish I'd been able to address it

earlier- like at age 10. I'm not saying it's not serious- I've had a few

close calls - only to be told by a doctor I was " too young to worry about

it " . So don't let any doctor blow you off if you feel you aren't getting

satisfaction from the propranolol. If you think they are blowing it off- ask

for tests -NOW. or get a hold of me- I'll tell them.

Also- the pharmacy has a 60mgs propranolol- slow release propranolol -

If you're on 50mgs - why don't they give you the 60 All Day tab? The you can

keep a few 10mgs for when it's needed fast.

Also a mention- If you are gaining water weight it might be what you're

feeling. And self exams will tell you if it's the muscle beneath or the water

weight gain. -Cause that's what they'll tell you it is at the doctor's office

and you want to be sure to tell them it's NOT if you ever need to.

Your heart health is very important - my sister had the pains I think you're

talking about when she was in her teens. She's now 45 and still has them but

doctors do nothing for her. You are your best defense!

Sherry

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Sherry,

Isnt horrible to live like this?Its depressing to think that this one life I got

is almost ruined by these conditions and worry.I feel like a brat because there

are so many people out there with much much worse conditions than this.thanks so

much for the info.Ive been taking 1000mg of magnesium and 1000 mg of calcium

every day with copper also.That I read about from that web page.It seems to be

helping alot.My bronchitis and sinus infection have slowed down considerably.I

want to try this cleansing.Do you do the cleansing because of what the propanol

might do to your liver?

How exactly can you tell if you have water weight or just fat ha ha I didnt

exactly get what you were saying.

Well write back

Nichole

RE: chest pains

Hi All - & -

The vitamins I'm on- a multi with minerals (no iodine which I found at Target

for cheap). I take enzymes- " Nu-Zymes " (<A

HREF= " http://www.drpinkus.com " >www.DrPinkus.com</A>). I also do an

occasional cleansing - <A HREF= " http://www.metagenics.com " >metagenics</A>.com

has a good cleansing product (the

ImflamX) I used once and changed my diet for 20 days while I use it. It's

really hard the first time around to do the diet change and watch every

little thing you eat. Note the InflamX is very high in turmeric - very good

cleanser. I also take selenium, silver (small amounts) aspirin, extra D, B

complex, biotin, calcium (oyster shell) and a few others . . brain frog.

I've been relearning relaxing techniques too. But I still used the

propranolol - from now on I will keep it with me at all times since I can

still " get myself going " - it's just how this hyperT thing works. I'm also on

Tapazole - 10 mgs a day.

The chest pains are no fun. I'm 47 and wish I'd been able to address it

earlier- like at age 10. I'm not saying it's not serious- I've had a few

close calls - only to be told by a doctor I was " too young to worry about

it " . So don't let any doctor blow you off if you feel you aren't getting

satisfaction from the propranolol. If you think they are blowing it off- ask

for tests -NOW. or get a hold of me- I'll tell them.

Also- the pharmacy has a 60mgs propranolol- slow release propranolol -

If you're on 50mgs - why don't they give you the 60 All Day tab? The you can

keep a few 10mgs for when it's needed fast.

Also a mention- If you are gaining water weight it might be what you're

feeling. And self exams will tell you if it's the muscle beneath or the water

weight gain. -Cause that's what they'll tell you it is at the doctor's office

and you want to be sure to tell them it's NOT if you ever need to.

Your heart health is very important - my sister had the pains I think you're

talking about when she was in her teens. She's now 45 and still has them but

doctors do nothing for her. You are your best defense!

Sherry

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> The attacks would last about half an hour or more, and

> resembled what I imagine an epileptic seizure is, more than a heart

> attack, i.e. spams that convulse the entire body

That's something different that what I've experienced. Mine

is more of a long-lasting, low-level pain, sometimes coupled

with anxiety/panic attacks. In a book I have on copper

toxicity, they list these very symptoms as signs of copper

dumping.

Marc

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Have not posted in a long time. Recently I've been having chestpains--

PA/Fibro? Spent an entire nite in ER ruling out heart. no one can

explain them, it's agreed they are very real--Blood pressure rises

right along with the pain---has anyone else experienced this wierd

phenomenon? Had a great run on Humira for about 2months---until the

chest pains started, at first Dr thought it was Bronchitis--pulled me

off the Humira and things went downhill from there---and it never was

bronchitis---any athoughts?

Stay well all

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No ideas here but I am so sorry for you to have to be going through

this. I know how disappointing it can be as I'm having trouble with

infections on Enbrel and Enbrel has given me back my life so I don't

want to loose it but might anyway. At least they " believe " you so they

will keep trying to figure it out I guess.....we hope. Praying you get

this figured out soon.....-Betz

>

> Have not posted in a long time. Recently I've been having chestpains--

> PA/Fibro? Spent an entire nite in ER ruling out heart. no one can

> explain them, it's agreed they are very real--Blood pressure rises

> right along with the pain---has anyone else experienced this wierd

> phenomenon? Had a great run on Humira for about 2months---until the

> chest pains started, at first Dr thought it was Bronchitis--pulled me

> off the Humira and things went downhill from there---and it never was

> bronchitis---any athoughts?

> Stay well all

>

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dizzylakota wrote:

> Have not posted in a long time. Recently I've been having chestpains--

> PA/Fibro? Spent an entire nite in ER ruling out heart. no one can

> explain them, it's agreed they are very real--Blood pressure rises

> right along with the pain---has anyone else experienced this wierd

> phenomenon? Had a great run on Humira for about 2months---until the

> chest pains started, at first Dr thought it was Bronchitis--pulled me

> off the Humira and things went downhill from there---and it never was

> bronchitis---any athoughts?

> Stay well all

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>No virus found in this incoming message.

>Checked by AVG Free Edition.

>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/2006

>

>

Had the chest pains for years. Never had a doc figure it out.

Costochondritis - is what I learned from this or the Remicade forum.

Too many of us have this happen for it not to be related to PA somehow.

It's suprizing the number who spend time in an ER thinking heart attack.

Very painful....

duane

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>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I actually have a couple of queries for Bee.

>

> Bee, in the last 2 to 3 weeks, I have been having chest pains hard

> to describe exactly what they feel like, but I suppose the nearest

> thing i can think of is like a stitch (cramp - like when you

> exercise and get the stitch)on a scale of 1-5, initially they

> wouldve been a 1. I thought as I have had chest pains a couple of

> years ago, that didnt eventuate into anything else (saw a doctor

> about it, who did blood tests and said it was muscle pains nothing

> to be too concerned about)I figured these pains might be retracing,

> they are on the left side of my chest, and at different times in

> different places around my heart (I believe). However I was awoken

> this morning at 4 am, with a more severe pain probably about a 3 on

> the same scale, and Im just a bit worried - I have the fear that

the increased fats may be blocking up my arteries,I take all your

> recommended supplements, the only one that I most probably dont

have the right ratio of is CLO, but I do take an australian melrose

> brand. Because Im a bit concerned I have booked an appointment with

> the doctor this afternoon, just to check me over. Im nearly 40,

and havent previously had any heart complaints diagnosed.

==>Holey moley Kat. You've been around awhile and you still have a

fear good nature-made fats that our ancestors ate, and they survived

without drugs, medicos, the food industry or big industry. Your body

doesn't even make cholesterol from fats of any kind, it makes it from

carbs. Also cholesterol is a repair and protective substance made in

the liver and it is very necesary for your health. Arteries become

clogged because of weak cells in them caused by poor nutrition,

particularly a lack of good nature-made fats and eating man-made fats

which makes the cells flaccid and weak; plus too high carbs, sugars,

and toxins in our foods, " and " a lack of omega 3, oil soluble

vitamins A, D & E, etc., etc. = my program. Read the article " Taking

the Fear out of Eating Fats; see the Candida Diet Folder for the Fat

Facts Folder (it's in there).

===>Kat, your chest pain sounds more like heartburn usually caused by

a lack of stomach acid. Ensure you are taking digestive enzymes,

eating sauerkraut with every meal, and drinking lemon juice and sea

salt, and plenty of good fats and meats. See my main article

on " Improving Digestion " and also the Digestion Folder. But do let

us know if the doctor finds anything - I doubt he will.

Luv, Bee

>

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> ==>Holey moley Kat. You've been around awhile and you still have

a fear good nature-made fats that our ancestors ate, and they

survived without drugs, medicos, the food industry or big industry.

Your body doesn't even make cholesterol from fats of any kind, it

makes it from carbs. Also cholesterol is a repair and protective

substance made in the liver and it is very necesary for your

health. Arteries become clogged because of weak cells in them

caused by poor nutrition, particularly a lack of good nature-made

fats and eating man-made fats which makes the cells flaccid and

weak; plus too high carbs, sugars, and toxins in our foods, " and " a

lack of omega 3, oil soluble vitamins A, D & E, etc., etc. = my

program. Read the article " Taking the Fear out of Eating Fats; see

the Candida Diet Folder for the Fat Facts Folder (it's in there).

***Hi Bee, I have not read that file, but I definitely will, I guess

I can tend to be a glass is half empty type of girl, and worry

needlessly (majority of the time). I've done your complete diet

since april this year and I must say for me it was a giant leap of

faith because prior to your diet, since my teenage years, I have

beleived a strict low-fat (all kinds)diet was the " only " way to go

because of weight gain, heart disease etc. Unknowingly, I was

setting myself up for encouraging candida through poor nutrition

etc. I truly believe in your diet and have reaped so much benefit

from you and this website so far. But the chest pain scared me and

had me thinking the worst.

===>Kat, your chest pain sounds more like heartburn usually caused

by a lack of stomach acid. Ensure you are taking digestive enzymes,

eating sauerkraut with every meal, and drinking lemon juice and sea

salt, and plenty of good fats and meats. See my main article

on " Improving Digestion " and also the Digestion Folder. But do let

us know if the doctor finds anything - I doubt he will. Luv, Bee

***Thank you for your reassurance and your wisdom, I am taking all

the supplements, and I will let you know if the doctor finds

anything.

love kat

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Hi!

I just wanted to add that my husband had some " cramping " chest pains

that scared him very much a few months back, where his heart would

beat irregularly and feel encased. He had been on his own due to a

work-move for several months before I could join him, and he had

been under a lot of stress, lonely, and subsisting mainly on pasta

and a few frozen vegetables- way too little fat/real food! After

having some tests done by a holistic-minded M.D. his hair analysis

found severe mineral imbalances suggestive of adrenal burnout.

Needless to say the pains stopped almost immediately after I began

cooking for him again (maybe a couple weeks) with plenty of grass-

fed meats, eggs, butter, greens, and put him on supplements

including cod liver oil, minerals, etc. And by the way his

cardiovascular risk factors have always been as low as possible (I

guess C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and whatever lipids they

look at) so it had nothing to do with his arteries/heart disease.

So don't be scared about the fats! As Bee said, your pain might more

likely be heartburn but whatever it is this is a great diet for

healing.

+Corinne

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Hi!I just wanted to add that my husband had

some " cramping " chest pains that scared him very much a few months

back, where his heart would beat irregularly and feel encased. He

had been on his own due to a work-move for several months before I

could join him, and he had been under a lot of stress, lonely, and

subsisting mainly on pasta and a few frozen vegetables- way too

little fat/real food! After having some tests done by a holistic-

minded M.D. his hair analysis found severe mineral imbalances

suggestive of adrenal burnout. Needless to say the pains stopped

almost immediately after I began cooking for him again (maybe a

couple weeks) with plenty of grass-fed meats, eggs, butter, greens,

and put him on supplements including cod liver oil, minerals, etc.

And by the way his cardiovascular risk factors have always been as

low as possible (I guess C-reactive protein, homocysteine, and

whatever lipids they look at) so it had nothing to do with his

arteries/heart disease.

So don't be scared about the fats! As Bee said, your pain might

more likely be heartburn but whatever it is this is a great diet for

healing.

> +Corinne

Hi Corinne, thanks for your comments, I know this diet is great for

healing, but yeah, I am so good at second guessing myself. I dont

think the chest pain that I had was heartburn because the worst of

it occurred at least 9 hours after Id eaten (it woke me up at 4 in

the morning, and I had dinner around 7pm) I actually did get to the

doctor earlier, and of course as Bee said, she (dr) didnt find

anything to be concerned about, she told me that it was more than

likely muscle pain (myalgia)and she asked me if Id been doing any

heavy work, in fact yesterday I had been to gym and done weights,

and had done some heavy bench press, I've done weights for years,

and I when I've had a hard work out, I have gotten sore, but this

chest pain was different, but anyway, I read the file taking the

fear out of fats and with Bees reassurance and my visit to the dr, I

feel confident and assured that - its all good.

luv kat

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Hello,

I'm wondering if you had any thing unusual from the regular diet? Also did

you have any stevia? I find that for me, I'm one of those unfortunate people

for whom just the *taste* of something sweet can provoke an insulin response.

When I get an insulin response, I get cravings, heartburn, hunger, etc. This

is why I only have stevia once or twice a month in tiny quantities.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

mangogal67 <mangogal67@...> wrote:

--- In , " corinne_ski "

i Corinne, thanks for your comments, I know this diet is great for

healing, but yeah, I am so good at second guessing myself. I dont

think the chest pain that I had was heartburn because the worst of

it occurred at least 9 hours after Id eaten (it woke me up at 4 in

It is a lot easier to act ourselves into new thinking than to think ourselves

into a new action.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

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Dearest Kat,

It is a learning process for sure, and it can be tough to get rid of

false data we've been following for so long from so many " so-called "

experts. But you are on your way Kat, and you are getting better,

and that's what is important. I'm very proud of you. I'll look

forward to hearing what the doctor finds.

Luv & Hugs, Bee

>

> > ==>Holey moley Kat. You've been around awhile and you still have

> a fear good nature-made fats that our ancestors ate, and they

> survived without drugs, medicos, the food industry or big

industry.

> Your body doesn't even make cholesterol from fats of any kind, it

> makes it from carbs. Also cholesterol is a repair and protective

> substance made in the liver and it is very necesary for your

> health. Arteries become clogged because of weak cells in them

> caused by poor nutrition, particularly a lack of good nature-made

> fats and eating man-made fats which makes the cells flaccid and

> weak; plus too high carbs, sugars, and toxins in our foods, " and " a

> lack of omega 3, oil soluble vitamins A, D & E, etc., etc. = my

> program. Read the article " Taking the Fear out of Eating Fats; see

> the Candida Diet Folder for the Fat Facts Folder (it's in there).

>

> ***Hi Bee, I have not read that file (Re: " Taking the Fear out of

Eating Fats; see the Candida Diet Folder for the Fat Facts Folder)

but I definitely will, I guess I can tend to be a glass is half empty

type of girl, and worry needlessly (majority of the time). I've done

your complete diet since april this year and I must say for me it was

a giant leap of faith because prior to your diet, since my teenage

years, I have beleived a strict low-fat (all kinds)diet was

the " only " way to go because of weight gain, heart disease etc.

Unknowingly, I was setting myself up for encouraging candida through

poor nutrition etc. I truly believe in your diet and have reaped so

much benefit from you and this website so far. But the chest pain

scared me and had me thinking the worst.

<snip>

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> I'm wondering if you had any thing unusual from the regular

diet?

*** Hey Debby, no I didnt have anything different to what I usually

have, I do have stevia probably every other day or so, I've had no

chest pain at all today, so my maybe my body was retracing something

from prior.

luv kat

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--- In , " Bee Wilder "

<beeisbuzzing2003@... I'll look forward to hearing what the doctor

finds.

>***Hi Bee, I went to the dr yesterday and she checked me out, even

did an ekg, everything was working as it should, she said the type

of pain I described didnt sound like heart pain, but most likely

muscle pain (myalgia) (have had 3-4 years ago) and it was probably

inflammation between the muscles and the bones/joints as I had done

heavyish weights at the gym the day before, she felt that most

likely contributed to it. I've been fine today, no problems, so it

mustve been the weights or my body retracing. I can stop worrying

needlessly.

Bee thanks so much for everything.

Love & Hugs back at ya

luv Kat

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I have anxiety myself kat and I find that I need to

limit things like stevia. I only have it once or

twice a month. Also make sure that you are taking all

of your supplements.

Luv,

Debby

San , CA

--- mangogal67 <mangogal67@...> wrote:

>

>

> > I'm wondering if you had any thing unusual from

> the regular

> diet?

> *** Hey Debby, no I didnt have anything different to

> what I usually

> have, I do have stevia probably every other day or

> so, I've had no

> chest pain at all today, so my maybe my body was

> retracing something

> from prior.

>

It is a lot easier to act ourselves into new thinking than to think ourselves

into a new action.

My son Hunter Hudson (10/11/04) http://debbypadilla.0catch.com/hunter/

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>

> --- In , " Bee Wilder "

> <beeisbuzzing2003@ I'll look forward to hearing what the doctor

> finds.

>

> >***Hi Bee, I went to the dr yesterday and she checked me out, even

> did an ekg, everything was working as it should, she said the type

> of pain I described didnt sound like heart pain, but most likely

> muscle pain (myalgia) (have had 3-4 years ago) and it was probably

> inflammation between the muscles and the bones/joints as I had done

> heavyish weights at the gym the day before, she felt that most

> likely contributed to it. I've been fine today, no problems, so it

> mustve been the weights or my body retracing. I can stop worrying

> needlessly. Bee thanks so much for everything. Love & Hugs back at

ya

Dearest Kat. I'm so happy to hear that great news!! Thank you. You

are very welcome for everything Kat. Keep up the good work. It's

onward and upward my dear.

Love & Hugs, Bee

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Hi Ellen,

You poor thing. I'm so sorry you feel so awful. Only someone who has

been there knows how awful and all-consuming these feelings are.

Atenolol is the most effective beta blocker for heart symptoms, so

you're on the right med. It takes a while to kick in and I don't know

how long you've been on it, but you might need to be taking it more

than once daily. What other meds, supplements and herbs are you

taking and when? More importantly, what are your lab and test

results?? FT3, FT4, TSH, TPO, ECG, EKG, CBC and liver, metabolic, and

lipid panels? How about a cortisol test? Depending on your age you

might need to have a menopause panel as well. Since heart trouble

comes along with thyroid trouble you need to have that ruled out

first. You need to know what your labs are so that you know where

you're starting and where you need to go based on where you're at now.

Post all of them you can along with their normal ranges and the dates

they were drawn. Any docs comments are important too. All these

levels can influence your thyroid and other hormones. They're like a

big net- everything is connected and if you don't treat your body like

it's a machine and just treat the parts, you're going to keep breaking

down (so to speak).

A racing heart is usually a sign of hypER, where a pounding heart is

usually a sign of hypO. Symptoms of the two cross over tho, so this

is not definitive proof of one or the other. Same with BP, which can

run either way. Heart rate and BP should be resting, meaning sit down

for 5 minutes before taking them. Also respiration rates. Take them

at the same time every day and in the same place in your home and keep

a diary and note how you are feeling when they are being taken that

day. Take them once in the am and once in the pm. Do you have

dizziness, hearing or vision trouble? feelings of faintness? Even

Menopause can cause heart feelings as well as many other things.

That's why the PDR says docs are always supposed to check adrenals

before thyroid because bad adrenals can affect the thyroid and if you

go to correct the thyroid you can really hurt yourself badly if your

adrenals are already stressed. If your doc doesn't want to run these

tests, there are ways you can order them yourself and do them without

his " permission " . Even anemia or an imbalance in metabolites such as

Magnesium, calcium, potassium can all cause the same feelings. Mag

and CA are famous for these feelings. All these are relatively easy

to fix, but you have to know where to start!

You are right to be concerned. It is not often that someone actually

has a heart attack due to this especially while being treated and

monitored, but chest pain is never something to be ignored if no other

reason than it is affecting your life and you deserve to feel better

than you are feeling. Get copies of your labs- all of them. In the US

the docs are required by law to give you copies if you ask for them.

They may charge you for copying them, but they are yours. Get them.

Put them in a notebook with the latest appearing on page one. Every

time you get a new lab, get a copy and put it in the notebook to help

you keep track. Don't take " high " " low " " normal " as good enough

answers. Get those lab copies and even copies of your docs notes if

you can. Keep them. If he doesn't want to give them to you, there

are ways of getting them... :) Post again if you need help that way.

Hope to hear more from you soon!!

E (Ellen in Missouri)

>

> I have been posting concerning all my issues with dianoses of hashi's

> and not getting stabalized since March. I also have severe chest

> pains. I am taking attenlol (25mg) but still am having severe chest

> pains. I take xanax to help. Does anyone know what else I can do.

>

> Ellen

>

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>From: " mem_mem_me " <maryellenmu@...>

>I have been posting concerning all my issues with dianoses of hashi's

>and not getting stabalized since March. I also have severe chest

>pains. I am taking attenlol (25mg) but still am having severe chest

>pains. I take xanax to help. Does anyone know what else I can do.

I don't know what you can do.

My chest pains of over ten years went away within a couple months of

starting Cortef.

My dauther's chest pains went away on Armour.

Attenlol and all the beta blockers will make you more hypothyroid. Besides,

if it's for the pain, it may not touch the problem. I was diagnosed with

" costochondritis " , which means the cardiologist didn't think it was heart

related, as I was only 30 when it started, and he couldn't find anything

wrong.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger.

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wow...i've heard this costochrontis diagnosis from a few hypo folks...I

also was diagnosed with that twice before I finally got diagnosed hypo.

bad pain. stupid docs.

cindi

>

I was diagnosed with

> " costochondritis " , which means the cardiologist didn't think it was

heart

> related, as I was only 30 when it started, and he couldn't find

anything

> wrong.

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> wow...i've heard this costochrontis diagnosis from a few hypo folks...I

> also was diagnosed with that twice before I finally got diagnosed hypo.

> bad pain. stupid docs.

>

-----> Yes I also had it for the past 3-4 years. Even went to the ER

one night the pain scared me so bad. It's really gone away over the

past few months since my thyroid has started working again.

Didn't even think about the connection until I saw this post!

Lynn

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Could you tell us a little more about how much you're getting of the main electrolytes daily?

Potassium?

Sodium?

Calcium?

Magnesium?

A lot of heart issues can be related to improper levels of or improper ratios between the above.

-LanaOn 12/14/06, mem_mem_me <maryellenmu@...> wrote:

I have been posting concerning all my issues with dianoses of hashi's

and not getting stabalized since March. I also have severe chest

pains. I am taking attenlol (25mg) but still am having severe chest

pains. I take xanax to help. Does anyone know what else I can do.

Ellen

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What do you mean your thyroid started working again. That can happen.

Are you taking thyroid meds, if so what.

Thanks

Ellen

>

> > wow...i've heard this costochrontis diagnosis from a few hypo

folks...I

> > also was diagnosed with that twice before I finally got diagnosed

hypo.

> > bad pain. stupid docs.

> >

>

> -----> Yes I also had it for the past 3-4 years. Even went to the ER

> one night the pain scared me so bad. It's really gone away over the

> past few months since my thyroid has started working again.

>

> Didn't even think about the connection until I saw this post!

>

> Lynn

>

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