viral load

[Guest guest]

hey princess, sounds like we have something in common. same genotype,

i'm grade 2, stage 4 - cirrhosis. i don't know how much of mine is

still working, i manage to work full time but i just want to sleep

alot these days. how do you feel? i completed the 6 mos of peg-intron

(schering-p) last year with no luck, just pain, still active hep-c

(600K+ viral count). and i don't think i'm back to my old self yet (3

mos post treatment). now the doc (he's a good hep-c/gastro doc and i

trust/like him a lot) want's me to look at the pegasys (la rouche)

when it opens up to the general pub, and even consider continued

interferon w/o rebetron as perm treatment (like ms patients) as it is

showing promise in reducing or even correcting some fibrosis (not

cirrhosis of course). have you heard of any such therapy, and i'd

like to contrast how your feeling, physically, against how i feel.

the buelljockey

> I have a low viral load too, even before treatment, being at

387,000 ---- however, viral load doesn't mean very much in the scope

of things. I am a genotype 3a, rare of this country, however, I'm in

end stage 3 of liver disease... I've had it for over 30 years and

only have 25 percent working liver, so viral load is not an important

number in those regards.

>

> Princess

> www.studioreflections.com

>

> Re: New Member

>

>

> Bonnie, scared only gets your adrenalin going, and the liver has

to clean it

> up.

> If you got it at work, and you are only 28, unless you are a VERY

heavy

> drinker, you are in a panic over nothing. It is a very slow

acting virus.

> Eat healthy. Cut your animal fat intake back as much as you can

and stick to

> as much veggies and grains as you can. Are you Geno 1a or

1b? You have

> an extermely low viral load.....most of us have a load over a

million, way

> over a million. Unless your doctor has the medication, you'll

have to call

> scherring with your prescription and get on a waiting list for

a " access

> assurance number " which is your garentee that you will have the

medication

> every month of treatment. I called last march and got my number

July 9th.

>

> People react differently. My first shot was a breeze for 12

hours, then it

> was 12 hours of the worst flu symptoms you could imagine......I

am a laborer

> and other than normal exhaustion from working in 100 degree

weather, I'm

> doing good. The second injection wasn't anything more than a real

tired

> feeling. I also worked at a friends in this heat wave. I work

with a friend

> who has large muscle fatigue, but little else for symptoms/side

effects.

> Apparently this injection is MUCH easier on the body than the old

3 shots a

> week drug.....

>

> Please don't worry, and take care of your health, diet, and drink

as much

> water as you can. there are links to Scherring Plough and access

assurance

> ......I never saved them, but others here have I am sure.

>

> When I first found out,,,,,, I mourned my perfect health.....and

couldnt

> believe I had something that could destroy my liver.....it's hard

to

> comprehend all this at first. If you feel a need to cry....cry.

It is not an

> immediate death sentence. I am sure you're doctor told you that

most people

> die WITH it than FROM it......

>

> It still doesnt mean we want to have it.

>

> There are some great people here.....many have been thru the old

> treatments.....many are waiting for their #'s.

>

> Later, Emo

[Guest guest]

Hi... it is unfortunate you have to work, I don' t know how you manage

it... I'd die on the job, no doubt. With these upper 90-degree temps lately, I

can walk outside long enough to turn on the sprinkler, before I feel faint and

filled with nausea.

I am at the 3-month mark with Schering's combo treatment... I had wanted to

wait for the new one coming out in December, but the doctor felt some urgency in

my starting as soon as possible. He was worried about liver cancer, which

typically sets in after having Hep C for 30 years. I am over the 30-year mark.

How do I feel you ask... I could write a book. Let's begin back when I

was 14 years old, finding myself in the hospital with infectious mono, which

resulted in turning me jaundice and leaving me in isolation for two months.

When I had gotten rid of the fevers, they decided to tell me I had non a-b

hepatitis as a result of being sick with infectious mono... ok fine... don't

worry, they said, it's nothing. What I find most infuriating is that is makes

sense to me... that was when I got Hepititis C... however, I've only found two

mentions on the internet where infectious mono can lead to a *type* of

hepatitis, but that's all it says. There have been no studies, no nothing on

it... yet, it seems several with Hep C have had infectious mono at some

point... I was not a drinker, an iv drug user, or anything else... I wasn't a

good girl, but I wasn't a bad one either... go figure... *shrugs*

Ever since that day, I found myself falling asleep on a daily basis around 2:00

in the afternoon... my ex-husband called it lazy, being easy on myself. In

school, I couldn't run very far, I'd pass out. I'd have dizzy spells for no

apparent reason... all my life I've been unwell, no one ever knew why and

chalked it up to me being a hypochondriac (spelling?)... fatique is something I

have absolutely zero control over.

It wasn't until a year or so ago that I became physically ill all the time...

they found I had pancreatitis, which resulted in gallbladder removal, and the

stopping of alot of foods and cigarettes. Even then, they didn't discover the

Hep C yet. Well, I was still sick all the time after that, and my GP doctor

decided to do some further blood tests, which showed increased liver enzymes...

he decided to refer me to a gastroenterologist who did further testing and found

the Hep C...

None of us with this disease is going to find that our doctors or hospitals or

anyone really will agree with what is or what isn't ... there has not been

enough study done yet. All any of us can really do is eat as healthy as

possible and avoid all the little vices that make us sicker, including ibuprofen

and aspirin type drugs...

Yes, I have heard of the treatment you speak of... but, it seems a helluva way

to live life, at least to me at the moment... We'll see what happens and

how I feel at the 6-month mark I guess... my doctor will not do the necessary

tests to see if I've gone non-detectable until that point...

Princess

www.studioreflections.com

Re: New Member

>

>

> Bonnie, scared only gets your adrenalin going, and the liver has

to clean it

> up.

> If you got it at work, and you are only 28, unless you are a VERY

heavy

> drinker, you are in a panic over nothing. It is a very slow

acting virus.

> Eat healthy. Cut your animal fat intake back as much as you can

and stick to

> as much veggies and grains as you can. Are you Geno 1a or

1b? You have

> an extermely low viral load.....most of us have a load over a

million, way

> over a million. Unless your doctor has the medication, you'll

have to call

> scherring with your prescription and get on a waiting list for

a " access

> assurance number " which is your garentee that you will have the

medication

> every month of treatment. I called last march and got my number

July 9th.

>

> People react differently. My first shot was a breeze for 12

hours, then it

> was 12 hours of the worst flu symptoms you could imagine......I

am a laborer

> and other than normal exhaustion from working in 100 degree

weather, I'm

> doing good. The second injection wasn't anything more than a real

tired

> feeling. I also worked at a friends in this heat wave. I work

with a friend

> who has large muscle fatigue, but little else for symptoms/side

effects.

> Apparently this injection is MUCH easier on the body than the old

3 shots a

> week drug.....

>

> Please don't worry, and take care of your health, diet, and drink

as much

> water as you can. there are links to Scherring Plough and access

assurance

> ......I never saved them, but others here have I am sure.

>

> When I first found out,,,,,, I mourned my perfect health.....and

couldnt

> believe I had something that could destroy my liver.....it's hard

to

> comprehend all this at first. If you feel a need to cry....cry.

It is not an

> immediate death sentence. I am sure you're doctor told you that

most people

> die WITH it than FROM it......

>

> It still doesnt mean we want to have it.

>

> There are some great people here.....many have been thru the old

> treatments.....many are waiting for their #'s.

>

> Later, Emo

[Guest guest]

Hi... it is unfortunate you have to work, I don' t know how you manage

it... I'd die on the job, no doubt. With these upper 90-degree temps lately, I

can walk outside long enough to turn on the sprinkler, before I feel faint and

filled with nausea.

I am at the 3-month mark with Schering's combo treatment... I had wanted to

wait for the new one coming out in December, but the doctor felt some urgency in

my starting as soon as possible. He was worried about liver cancer, which

typically sets in after having Hep C for 30 years. I am over the 30-year mark.

How do I feel you ask... I could write a book. Let's begin back when I

was 14 years old, finding myself in the hospital with infectious mono, which

resulted in turning me jaundice and leaving me in isolation for two months.

When I had gotten rid of the fevers, they decided to tell me I had non a-b

hepatitis as a result of being sick with infectious mono... ok fine... don't

worry, they said, it's nothing. What I find most infuriating is that is makes

sense to me... that was when I got Hepititis C... however, I've only found two

mentions on the internet where infectious mono can lead to a *type* of

hepatitis, but that's all it says. There have been no studies, no nothing on

it... yet, it seems several with Hep C have had infectious mono at some

point... I was not a drinker, an iv drug user, or anything else... I wasn't a

good girl, but I wasn't a bad one either... go figure... *shrugs*

Ever since that day, I found myself falling asleep on a daily basis around 2:00

in the afternoon... my ex-husband called it lazy, being easy on myself. In

school, I couldn't run very far, I'd pass out. I'd have dizzy spells for no

apparent reason... all my life I've been unwell, no one ever knew why and

chalked it up to me being a hypochondriac (spelling?)... fatique is something I

have absolutely zero control over.

It wasn't until a year or so ago that I became physically ill all the time...

they found I had pancreatitis, which resulted in gallbladder removal, and the

stopping of alot of foods and cigarettes. Even then, they didn't discover the

Hep C yet. Well, I was still sick all the time after that, and my GP doctor

decided to do some further blood tests, which showed increased liver enzymes...

he decided to refer me to a gastroenterologist who did further testing and found

the Hep C...

None of us with this disease is going to find that our doctors or hospitals or

anyone really will agree with what is or what isn't ... there has not been

enough study done yet. All any of us can really do is eat as healthy as

possible and avoid all the little vices that make us sicker, including ibuprofen

and aspirin type drugs...

Yes, I have heard of the treatment you speak of... but, it seems a helluva way

to live life, at least to me at the moment... We'll see what happens and

how I feel at the 6-month mark I guess... my doctor will not do the necessary

tests to see if I've gone non-detectable until that point...

Princess

www.studioreflections.com

Re: New Member

>

>

> Bonnie, scared only gets your adrenalin going, and the liver has

to clean it

> up.

> If you got it at work, and you are only 28, unless you are a VERY

heavy

> drinker, you are in a panic over nothing. It is a very slow

acting virus.

> Eat healthy. Cut your animal fat intake back as much as you can

and stick to

> as much veggies and grains as you can. Are you Geno 1a or

1b? You have

> an extermely low viral load.....most of us have a load over a

million, way

> over a million. Unless your doctor has the medication, you'll

have to call

> scherring with your prescription and get on a waiting list for

a " access

> assurance number " which is your garentee that you will have the

medication

> every month of treatment. I called last march and got my number

July 9th.

>

> People react differently. My first shot was a breeze for 12

hours, then it

> was 12 hours of the worst flu symptoms you could imagine......I

am a laborer

> and other than normal exhaustion from working in 100 degree

weather, I'm

> doing good. The second injection wasn't anything more than a real

tired

> feeling. I also worked at a friends in this heat wave. I work

with a friend

> who has large muscle fatigue, but little else for symptoms/side

effects.

> Apparently this injection is MUCH easier on the body than the old

3 shots a

> week drug.....

>

> Please don't worry, and take care of your health, diet, and drink

as much

> water as you can. there are links to Scherring Plough and access

assurance

> ......I never saved them, but others here have I am sure.

>

> When I first found out,,,,,, I mourned my perfect health.....and

couldnt

> believe I had something that could destroy my liver.....it's hard

to

> comprehend all this at first. If you feel a need to cry....cry.

It is not an

> immediate death sentence. I am sure you're doctor told you that

most people

> die WITH it than FROM it......

>

> It still doesnt mean we want to have it.

>

> There are some great people here.....many have been thru the old

> treatments.....many are waiting for their #'s.

>

> Later, Emo

[Guest guest]

when I was diagnosed...my vl was 96,400 after on month on meds it dropped to

under 400 and undetactable...so it can happen...atleast it did for me..and ever

since my vl has always be undectable...now less then 50....and my cd4 has always

been over 800..right now it is 1000...

Ric n NWArkansas

Viral Load

We just had a situation where the viral load went from over 500,000 to less

than 5000, in about 6 weeks.

Have any of you seen this before?

S.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/21/2004 3:40:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ryk4@...

writes:

when I was diagnosed...my vl was 96,400 after on month on meds it dropped to

under 400 and undetactable...so it can happen...atleast it did for me..and

ever since my vl has always be undectable...now less then 50....and my cd4 has

always been over 800..right now it is 1000...

Are you still taking the meds?

[Guest guest]

Excerpt:

Myth 3: Viral Load Tests Count Virus Particles in the Blood

A test used to monitor HIV infections is called " Viral Load " .[24] It

magnifies a portion of genetic material that is believed to be from

HIV. However, since HIV has never been purified it is impossible to

know what its genetic material is and, even if it was known, only a

fragment of it is used as the probe, meaning that cross reactions

with other viruses are likely. The virus " load " that is produced is

just a mathematical calculation, not a particle count, and cannot

determine what proportion, if any, of the genetic material detected

reflects infectious virus particles. Viral load may be measured in

people who are antibody negative and considered uninfected[27], or

sometimes, under similar circumstances, considered infected[31].

The above from:

Myths and Mysteries of HIV and AIDS

Compiled by Crowe of the Alberta Reappraising AIDS Society.

Myth 1: AIDS is a Distinct Disease

There are several dramatically different definitions of AIDS,

depending upon your location and age. In Third World countries AIDS

can be diagnosed from fever, diarrhoea and a persistent cough

lasting more than a month, with no HIV test required.[32] A

laboratory measurement (abnormal CD4 immune cell counts), along with

a positive HIV test result, but with no signs of illness, accounts

for more than half the diagnoses in the US[15], but is not accepted

as a diagnosis for children under 14, or for anyone in Canada[14].

AIDS may also be diagnosed in Western countries by one of about 30

different cancers and infections (usually, but not always, with a

positive HIV test result required).

Myth 2: HIV Antibody Tests are Accurate

The tests used to determine whether someone is HIV positive are

based upon the detection of antibodies. False positives may be

recorded due to laboratory errors, vaccinations against other

diseases or current or past diseases[10]. Even pregnancy makes a

false positive test more likely. Unfortunately, the only way to

check a positive test is with more tests[4],[7]. Indeterminate test

results may be interpreted as positive in a person believed to be at

high risk of AIDS, and negative in others[7].

Myth 3: Viral Load Tests Count Virus Particles in the Blood

A test used to monitor HIV infections is called " Viral Load " .[24] It

magnifies a portion of genetic material that is believed to be from

HIV. However, since HIV has never been purified it is impossible to

know what its genetic material is and, even if it was known, only a

fragment of it is used as the probe, meaning that cross reactions

with other viruses are likely. The virus " load " that is produced is

just a mathematical calculation, not a particle count, and cannot

determine what proportion, if any, of the genetic material detected

reflects infectious virus particles. Viral load may be measured in

people who are antibody negative and considered uninfected[27], or

sometimes, under similar circumstances, considered infected[31].

Myth 4: Hit Hard, Hit Early is the Most Effective Treatment Strategy

Many AIDS doctors recommend starting HIV medications before symptoms

arise. This philosophy continued even after the Concorde study of

the benchmark AIDS drug AZT showed that early treatment was not

beneficial, and that many more people died while taking the drug

than on placebo[6]. HIV drugs interfere with normal workings of the

human body, and it is not clear that people can survive on them for

many years. AZT, for example, has been associated with an almost

50:50 chance of Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma (a normally fatal blood

cancer) after 3 years[25]. On the other hand, it takes an average of

10 years between becoming HIV positive and starting to develop AIDS

without therapy[21].

Myth 5: New AIDS Drugs are Saving Lives

A new generation of AIDS drugs, Protease Inhibitors, first became

available late in 1995 and are credited with saving many lives.

However, the AIDS death rate was already declining in 1994, the

definition of AIDS in the US had been expanded to include people

with no visible illness in 1993[15], and the annualized death rate

of people diagnosed in 1997 was higher than in those diagnosed in

1995 and 1996. Protease inhibitors have been associated with serious

health problems, including diarrhoea, nausea, dangerously high

cholesterol levels, diabetes and heart disease[5].

Myth 6: Women are the Fastest Growing Group of AIDS Victims

This claim is based on the percentage of new AIDS cases among women

rising (from 7% in 1993 in Canada to 14% in 1997, for example). Yet,

the actual number of AIDS cases among women dropped from 126 in

Canada in 1993 to only 75 in 1997[14]. Similarly in the US, the

percentage of AIDS cases in women rose from 16% in 1993 to 19% in

1997, while the actual number of female cases dropped from 16,824 to

13,105[15]. The use of percentages creates the illusion of a growing

epidemic among women.

Myth 7: AIDS is a Growing Risk for Children

The risk of AIDS among Canada's approximately 6 million children is

minuscule. There were only 25 new cases in 1995, dropping to 10 in

1997[14]. Similarly, the number of AIDS cases among the almost 60

million children in the US was only 937 in 1992, dropping to 167 in

1997[15]. Compare this with a risk of dying at birth of about 6 for

every 1,000 live births.

Myth 8: HIV+ Pregnant Women should take Drugs to Prevent

Transmission to Babies

Women pass many different antibodies to their children through the

placenta and, after birth, through breast-feeding[26]. These

antibodies are protective, and partially account for the better

health of breast-fed babies. Naturally, HIV antibodies may also be

transmitted, and it is impossible to distinguish these antibodies

from those due to HIV infection in the baby. Yet AZT, the drug

prescribed to reduce the risk of infecting the baby (at most about

25%) can cross the placenta[11] and can cause anemia[8], bone marrow

damage[22] cancer[23] and birth defects[18], as well as other

serious health problems in both mothers and their babies[19]. These

health problems will likely be blamed on HIV, and not the therapy.

Myth 9: HIV is Sexually Transmitted

Sexual transmission of HIV seems to be highly inefficient - official

estimates claim it requires an average of 1000-10,000 heterosexual

contacts and 32-10,000(!?) homosexual contacts[36, 37]. The reason

may be that there is little, if any infectious virus in semen. In a

group of 25 antibody-positive men, only one single HIV provirus was

found in over a million semen cells of just one man - virtually none

[34]. Another study showed that 19 out of 21 wives of HIV positive

hemophiliacs were HIV negative, and none had signs of sickness[17].

Myth 10: Clean Needles Stop HIV Transmission in Drug Users

A study of IV drug users in Montreal showed that consistent users of

needle exchange programs were more than 10 times as likely to be HIV

positive than non-users[3]. A study of female prostitutes showed

that those taking drugs only intravenously were less likely to be

HIV positive (46%) than those exclusively taking cocaine in non-

intravenous ways (84%)[29]. The infectious theory of AIDS cannot

explain these anomalies.

Mystery 1: Paramedics and Surgeons are Immune to HIV Infection

Not one paramedic, emergency medical technician or surgeon in the US

has contracted AIDS from on-the-job exposure[15]. Out of 633,000

total US AIDS cases through 1997 only 25 are thought to be

occupationally acquired[15]. In Canada, out of 16,235 AIDS cases

through 1998, only 3 are reported as occupationally acquired[14],

based on circumstantial evidence[1]. Pretty strange for a supposedly

blood-borne virus!

Mystery 2: HIV Positive Animals Don't Get AIDS

After years of trying it has proved virtually impossible to get

Chimpanzees transfused with HIV-positive human blood to become sick

with any AIDS diseases. Yet their genes are about 98% the same as

humans. In other studies, dogs[30] and inbred mice[16] were positive

for one or more HIV antibodies, yet had never been infected!

Mystery 3: HIV Destroys While Dormant

The average latency period for HIV is estimated at 8-16 years[21].

During this time HIV is supposedly dormant (in that no symptoms of

the disease exist), yet somehow destroying the immune system of the

infected person. Supposedly the virus emerges after years of

dormancy and the person quickly gets sick and dies. This theory only

became possible with the recent viral load " counts " . Suddenly

frightening figures like " 400,000 copies per milliliter " appeared.

Even the exponents of viral load tests admit that these " counts " are

an average 60,000 times higher than the actual amount of virus[35].

Besides, the clinical significance of HIV viral load counts has not

been established.

Mystery 4: Some HIV Positive People Never Get AIDS Diseases

A number of people, known as Long Term Non-Progressors, have been

HIV positive for over a decade, have not taken HIV therapy, yet have

still not got sick with AIDS[20]. These people, along with the long

latency period in others, are living evidence that something apart

from HIV is needed to make people get sick with AIDS.

Mystery 5: Some People with AIDS Diseases are HIV Negative

Some people with AIDS are not HIV positive. Thousands of cases of

HIV negative people with diseases that would qualify as AIDS if they

had a positive HIV test have been documented[9]. Because the

definition of AIDS requires a positive HIV test, these cases have

been given the name Idiopathic CD4 Lymphocytopenia, and are excluded

from AIDS tracking and research.

Mystery 6: AIDS rates are falling, even where STD rates are rising

In Western countries the annual rate of new AIDS cases dropped

dramatically between 1993 (78,164 cases) and 1997 (30,986 cases)[15]

and from 1,735 to 498 in Canada[14]. Over the same time period, in

San Francisco, one of the cities hardest hit with AIDS, a sharp rise

in cases of Gonorrhea, Chlamydia and Syphilis occurred[28]. If

HIV/AIDS is also sexually transmitted, why is it not following the

same pattern?

Mystery 7: Kaposi's Sarcoma Prefers Homosexual Men

One of two diseases that triggered the AIDS era was Kaposi's

Sarcoma, a form of skin cancer that had formerly been found only on

the lower extremities of older men. Why was it suddenly found in the

face, chest and lungs of young homosexual men? Why so rarely in IV

drug users, hemophiliacs and other AIDS victims? If it is caused by

HIV, it should be found in all risk groups. One study showed that

97% of homosexual men with Kaposi's Sarcoma were also users of

carcinogenic and immunosuppressive nitrite inhalants[13].

Mystery 8: AIDS Affects Rich Countries More than the Poor

Why does AIDS attack people in the United States (1 out of 9,000 in

1997[15]) over five times more than in Canada (1 out of 50,000[14])

and over one hundred times more than in poverty stricken India (1

out of every million[2])?

Mystery 9: Billions in Research Dollar$, but still no Photographs

The first microscope photographs of purified HIV would make any

scientist famous. Yet, although billions of dollars have been spent

on HIV and AIDS research, nobody has ever photographed purified HIV.

Why? Is it possible that nobody has ever really purified it? The

first electron micrographs of what had previously been considered to

be purified HIV, showed that they consisted mostly of cellular debris

[12].

References

1. A case of HIV Infection Possibly Transmitted in an Occupational

Setting - Ontario. Canada Communicable Disease Report. 1992; 18: 102-

3.

2. Bagla P. India Prepares to Join U.S., World Teams. Science. 1998

Nov 20; 282: 1394.

3. Bruneau et al. High Rates of HIV Infection among Injection Drug

Users Participating in Needle Exchange Programs in Montreal, Am J

Epid. 1997, 146 (12): 994-1002.

4. Burke et al. Measurement of the false positive rate in a

screening program for human immunodeficiency virus infections. NEJM.

1988; 319(15): 961-4.

5. Carr A, DA. Gap between biology and reality in AIDS.

Lancet. 1998 Dec 19; 352(S5): 16.

6. Concorde: MRC/ANRS randomised double-blind controlled trial of

immediate and deferred zidovudine in symptom-free HIV infection.

Lancet. April 9, 1994; 343: 871-881.

7. Cordes R, M. Pitfalls in HIV testing. Postgraduate Medicine.

1995; 98: 177.

8. Costello C. Haematological abnormalities in human

immunodeficiency virus (HIV) disease. Journal of Clinical Pathology.

1988; 41: 711-715.

9. Duesberg PH. The HIV Gap in National AIDS Statistics.

Bio/Technology. 1993; 11

10. Factors Known to Cause False-Positive HIV Antibody Test Results.

Continuum; 4(3): 5. 64 references to conditions that can cause false-

positive HIV test results.

11. Gillet et al. Preliminary study on the transport of AZT

(Retrovir-zidovudine) through the placenta. J Gynecol Obstet Biol

Reprod. 1990; 19(2): 177-180.

12. Gluschankof et al. Cell membrane vesicles are a major

contaminant of gradient-enriched human immunodeficiency virus type-1

preparations. Virology. 1997; 230(1): 125-133. & Bess et al.

Virology. 1997; 230(1): 134-144.

13. Haverkos et al. Disease manifestation among homosexual men with

acquired immunodeficiency syndrome: A possible role of nitrites in

Kaposi's sarcoma. Sex Transm Dis. 1985; 12: 203-8.

14. HIV and AIDS in Canada: Surveillance Report to December 31,

1998. Laboratory Centre for Disease Control, Health Canada, 1999.

http://hwcweb.hwc.ca/hpb/lcdc/publicat/aids

15. HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report, Centers for Disease Control and

Prevention. 1998.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/stats/hasrlink.htm

16. Kion TA, Hoffmann GW. Anti-HIV and anti-anti-MHC antibodies in

alloimmune and autoimmune mice. Science. 1991; 253: 1138-40.

17. Kreiss JK, Kitchen LW, Prince HE et al. Antibody to human T-

lymphotropic virus type III in wives of hemophiliacs. Ann Intern

Med. 1985; 102: 623-6.

18. Kumar et al. Zidovudine Use in Pregnancy: A Report on 104 Cases

and the Occurrence of Birth Defects. J Acquir Immun Defic Syndr.

1994; 7: 1034-1039.

19. Lorenzi et al. Antiretroviral therapies in pregnancy: maternal

fetal and neonatal effects. AIDS. 1998; 12: F241-247.

20. Muñoz et al. Long-term survivors with HIV-1 infection. J Acq Imm

Def Synd & Hum Retrovir. 1995; 8(5): 496-505.

21.Muñoz et al. The incubation period of AIDS. AIDS. 1997; Vol 11

(suppl A): S69-76.

22. Mir N, Costello C. Zidovudine and Bone Marrow. Lancet. 1988 Nov

19; 1195-6.

23. Olivero et al. AZT is a Genotoxic Transplacental Carcinogen in

Animal Models. J Acquir Immun Defic Syndr Hum Retro. 1997; 14(4):

A29.

24. Philpott P, C. Viral Load of Crap. Reappraising AIDS.

October 1996; http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/data/chjppcrap.htm

25. Pluda et al. Development of Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma in a Cohort of

Patients with Severe HIV Infection on Long-Term Antiretroviral

Therapy, Ann Int Med. 1990, 113: 276-282.

26. Pryor K, Pryor G. Nursing Your Baby. Pocket Books. 1991.

27. Rich JD et al. Misdiagnosis of HIV Infection by HIV-1 Plasma

Viral Load Testing: A Case Series. Ann Int Med. 130:37-39.

28. S. Gonorrhea Cases Rise Among Gays: S.F. report says

chlamydia widespread among teens. San Francisco Chronicle. 1998 Oct

2.

29. Sterk C. Cocaine and HIV seropositivity. Lancet. 1988 May 7;

1052-3.

30. Strandstrom et al. Studies with canine sera that contain

antibodies which recognize human immunodeficiency virus structural

proteins. Cancer Res. 1990 Sep 1; 50(17 Suppl): 56285-56305.

31. Sullivan et al. Persistently negative HIV-1 antibody enzyme

immunoassay screening results for patients with HIV-1 infection and

AIDS. AIDS. 1999 Jan 14; 13: 89-96.

32. WHO case definitions for AIDS surveillance in adults and

adolescents. WER. 1994 Sep; 69: 273-80.

33. Marmor Lancet May 15, 1982: 100%, Jaffe An. Int. Med. August,

1983: 96%, Havarkos STD Oct/Dec, 1985: 97%, Kaslow JAMA 261:23 1989:

96%, Archibald, Epidemiology 3:203 1992: 100%, Duesberg Genetica

February, 1995: 93%

34. Van Voorhis et al. HIV-1 detection in semen by polymerase chain

reaction. Fert.and Ster. 1991 Mar; 55: 588-594.

35. Piatak et al. High Levels of HIV-1 in Plasma During All Stages

of Infection Determind by Competitive PCR. Science 1993 Mar; 259:

1749-1754.

36. New England Journal Medicine , April 10, 1997

37. The Center for Disease Control (USA)

> We just had a situation where the viral load went from over

500,000 to less

> than 5000, in about 6 weeks.

>

> Have any of you seen this before?

>

> S.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I should have included the fact that antiretrovirals were not used. I

understand the controversery with the PCR and the lack of validity. However, am

trying to understand a physicians justification in recommending HAART anyway in

light of a test result that they would have been happy with had HAART been done

previous. I think they would have attributed this test result to HAART.

What is their logic?

We just had a situation where the viral load went from over 500,000 to less

than 5000, in about 6 weeks.

Have any of you seen this before?

S.

[Guest guest]

I am curious, when you say you had a situation could you explain what it

was please?

[Guest guest]

I mean, there was no antiviral involved. The person who experienced this is

HAART naive. I am just wondering if others have done this too, without HAART?

How long would it take to do this with HAART?

S.

In a message dated 5/22/2004 4:45:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Tangerineburton@... writes:

I am curious, when you say you had a situation could you explain what it

was please?

[Guest guest]

You are fighting bad science with bad science...

What the fuck is it that you are trying to ...or what is it that was

done...? Have you looked into what the VL test actually measures...?

It is NOT " HIV " ( the fiction of a madman )...it's cellular

debris...cellular flotsam and getsum, at best. The " VL # " is a

mathematical calculation derived from a test which even its Nobel

Prize-winning inventor says should not be being used for this

purpose...if you are wondering whether you are healthy or not, here

is a quiz...

1. Do you see a doctor regularly?

2. Do you get blood tests at regular intervals ?

If you answered yes to either of these questions then you are sick

and will only get sicker...

Hre's a link for you.. http//www.sobehealthy.com .

> I mean, there was no antiviral involved. The person who

experienced this is

> HAART naive. I am just wondering if others have done this too,

without HAART?

>

> How long would it take to do this with HAART?

>

> S.

>

> In a message dated 5/22/2004 4:45:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Tangerineburton@a... writes:

> I am curious, when you say you had a situation could you explain

what it

> was please?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thousands aren't that bad, many people's are in the millions. Viral load

doesn't necessarily indicate liver damage or not. A biopsy is the only way to

tell the condition of the liver. My last viral load was about 350,000. I've

had Hep C for just about a lifetime, and so far have no liver damage.

Ok, , you can breathe again! This seems like such scary stuff, I know.

Feel free to ask any questions you want, that's what we're all here for -

information and support.

Marilyn

Viral load

Can somebody tell me how high your viral load goes before you go

into liver failure? My son's doctor said his is in the thousands

and I am not sure what should be done, or if this is a danger zone.

Please email me @dhoneycutt237686@... or

dhoneycutt2@....

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

I am in the millions 6 and change and the copies are of the scale, and they have

not said that I was in any danger of liver failure. My biopsy was done about 5

months ago and they said that I was stage 1. My viral load last August was allot

lower than the one that was taken in May, it was around 1.5 million. I have

started treatment one month ago with the Pegasys version of drugs. Hope this

will help, Kent.

Viral load

Can somebody tell me how high your viral load goes before you go

into liver failure? My son's doctor said his is in the thousands

and I am not sure what should be done, or if this is a danger zone.

Please email me @dhoneycutt237686@... or

dhoneycutt2@....

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

,

Viral loads are considered low until they are over 2 million.

Readings of 30 million, 50 million or higher are not uncommon.

Viral loads can change like the wind. The main use of them is as a

predictor of response to treatment (prior to treatment) and an

indicator of treatment sucess (post treatment). None of the methods

of measuring the viral load can read to zero but they are getting

closer. The best reading we can get is UNDECTABLE. If a patient

gets an Undectable reading at six months post treatment they are

considered a Sustained Viral Responder, SVR. At that point the

chances of a relapse are extremely low.

Hope this clears up some of the confusion, Glenn

> Can somebody tell me how high your viral load goes before you go

> into liver failure? My son's doctor said his is in the thousands

> and I am not sure what should be done, or if this is a danger

zone.

> Please email me @dhoneycutt237686@y... or

> dhoneycutt2@c...

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

thats too bad that you had a nasty time on tx.. some ppl just do and thats why

were are hoping they come up with something easier to take,,

How did your vl go from 0-12,000,000 on tx? If your vl was zero, why would you

even have started taking tx? It wouldnt have been needed... please explain

banawitt <banawitt@...> wrote:

hey, i like this group alread.

about viral load. when i was on interferon, my load went from 0 to 12,000,000

one month

after stopping the stuff. i had to stop because it gave me a grand mal seizure.

It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found the

support you need with us.

If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just click

the link-- Hepatitis C/

Happy Posting

[Guest guest]

hey, i like this group alread.

hey, what's not to like?

Welcome Bana....ric

[Guest guest]

I had the same problems on treatment .

viral load

hey, i like this group alread.

about viral load. when i was on interferon, my load went from 0 to 12,000,000

one month

after stopping the stuff. i had to stop because it gave me a grand mal

seizure.

It's a pleasure having you join in our conversations. We hope you have found

the support you need with us.

If you are using email for your posts, for easy access to our group, just

click the link-- Hepatitis C/

Happy Posting

[Guest guest]

yes, it happens....rebound

[Guest guest]

yes, it happens....rebound

[Guest guest]

OK, so I cleared at 12 weeks. Continuing tx to 48 weeks. What is the

percentage that 6 months post-tx my viral load will rebound. Anyone know?

On 9/15/05, Bhprice425@... <Bhprice425@...> wrote:

>

> yes, it happens....rebound

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

OK, so I cleared at 12 weeks. Continuing tx to 48 weeks. What is the

percentage that 6 months post-tx my viral load will rebound. Anyone know?

On 9/15/05, Bhprice425@... <Bhprice425@...> wrote:

>

> yes, it happens....rebound

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

If your a geno type 1 the chances are aproximately 33% . But the newer

medications may have altlered that number

Re: viral load

OK, so I cleared at 12 weeks. Continuing tx to 48 weeks. What is the

percentage that 6 months post-tx my viral load will rebound. Anyone know?

On 9/15/05, Bhprice425@... <Bhprice425@...> wrote:

>

> yes, it happens....rebound

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't want to sound rude, but if " the new meds have altered the number " ,

then the correct answer is " I don't know " , isn't it? To what treatment does

the 33% refer? I'm on peginterferon alfa-2b plus ribavirin 1200 mg/day.

I know you're trying to be helpful, and you often are very much so, but in

this case, that number is just scary, (and it may not be accurate).

Thanks,

On 9/15/05, elizabethnv1 <elizabethnv1@...> wrote:

>

> If your a geno type 1 the chances are aproximately 33% . But the newer

> medications may have altlered that number

> Re: viral load

>

>

> OK, so I cleared at 12 weeks. Continuing tx to 48 weeks. What is the

> percentage that 6 months post-tx my viral load will rebound. Anyone know?

>

>

>

> On 9/15/05, Bhprice425@... <Bhprice425@...> wrote:

> >

> > yes, it happens....rebound

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I don't want to sound rude, but if " the new meds have altered the number " ,

then the correct answer is " I don't know " , isn't it? To what treatment does

the 33% refer? I'm on peginterferon alfa-2b plus ribavirin 1200 mg/day.

I know you're trying to be helpful, and you often are very much so, but in

this case, that number is just scary, (and it may not be accurate).

Thanks,

On 9/15/05, elizabethnv1 <elizabethnv1@...> wrote:

>

> If your a geno type 1 the chances are aproximately 33% . But the newer

> medications may have altlered that number

> Re: viral load

>

>

> OK, so I cleared at 12 weeks. Continuing tx to 48 weeks. What is the

> percentage that 6 months post-tx my viral load will rebound. Anyone know?

>

>

>

> On 9/15/05, Bhprice425@... <Bhprice425@...> wrote:

> >

> > yes, it happens....rebound

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think the percentage is very accurate. across the board, all

treatment options for geno 1. thats right folks. a 1 in 3 chance

of being clear at 6 months post tx. Plus no guarantee it will

never come back. and all the lovely lasting side effects ie;

neuropathy, confusion, joint aches and pain to name some milder

ones. Yes I'm sarcastic, so what?. This is whats being pushed on

us.. Las Vegas would kill to have those odds.

[Guest guest]

I think the percentage is very accurate. across the board, all

treatment options for geno 1. thats right folks. a 1 in 3 chance

of being clear at 6 months post tx. Plus no guarantee it will

never come back. and all the lovely lasting side effects ie;

neuropathy, confusion, joint aches and pain to name some milder

ones. Yes I'm sarcastic, so what?. This is whats being pushed on

us.. Las Vegas would kill to have those odds.