Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 You're so right Venezia. Believe me, this is the only forum where I feel comfortable posting that I actually seem to be having some success with something other than Armour. Hopefully, I'll keep feeling better and better on this. It's funny -- my brother has been on synthroid for years -- is 58 -- has no other health problems, climbs mountains and bikes all over the country -- while I was home, feeling horrible, struggling to manage with Armour and yet telling him that Armour was the only way to go. . : ) Amy ________________________________ From: venizia1948 <nelsonck@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:38:23 AM Subject: Re: progress maybe? Amy, This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help each other but there is a fine line here. So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling back down to where you were. Good luck to you, Venizia > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > Amy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Wow sounds like what happened to me. Three weeks on levothyroxine and I almost feel like new!!! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: progress maybe? Amy, This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help each other but there is a fine line here. So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling back down to where you were. Good luck to you, Venizia > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > Amy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Had you been on Armour before the levothyroxine? ________________________________ From: " sunlend@... " <sunlend@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:18:27 AM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? Wow sounds like what happened to me. Three weeks on levothyroxine and I almost feel like new!!! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: progress maybe? Amy, This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help each other but there is a fine line here. So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling back down to where you were. Good luck to you, Venizia > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > Amy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I went onto the forum associated with " StopTheThyroidMadness.com " when I was taking Armour looking for help because of feeling ill and then the high liver enzymes starting. Here's how it went. me: Anyone else having high liver enzymes after starting Armour. I'm on 3 grains. her: How dare you fear monger here and repeat the terrible rumors that doctors are telling you to believe. ARMOUR saved my life and I would will defend such a wonderful company as forest pharmaceuticals with all my might. They are ethical and fight for us!! (or something like that) me: Ummm, forest pharmaceuticals also makes Lexapro. Google " lawsuit lexapro " . The whole thread disappeared in less than 10 minutes and I was kicked off the board without comment... I kid you not! Never got around to mentioning that I was pissing out my whole skeleton as my calcium was leached from my bones (hadn't found out yet). I am NOT suggesting that Armour caused all these problems. I now know that any hyperthyroid state can cause these problems regardless of what hormone replacement is used AND that hyperthyroidism can be a subtle condition with real consequences. The real problem with the Armour websites are the pushing to take more and more without a care to hidden dangers like elevated liver enzymes and calcium leaching. ________________________________ From: Amy Green <amygreen53@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:53:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? You're so right Venezia. Believe me, this is the only forum where I feel comfortable posting that I actually seem to be having some success with something other than Armour. Hopefully, I'll keep feeling better and better on this. It's funny -- my brother has been on synthroid for years -- is 58 -- has no other health problems, climbs mountains and bikes all over the country -- while I was home, feeling horrible, struggling to manage with Armour and yet telling him that Armour was the only way to go. . : ) Amy ____________ _________ _________ __ From: venizia1948 <nelsoncksbcglobal (DOT) net> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:38:23 AM Subject: Re: progress maybe? Amy, This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help each other but there is a fine line here. So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling back down to where you were. Good luck to you, Venizia > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > Amy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Yup! Been there! : ) ________________________________ From: <kennio@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:18:48 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? I went onto the forum associated with " StopTheThyroidMadn ess.com " when I was taking Armour looking for help because of feeling ill and then the high liver enzymes starting. Here's how it went. me: Anyone else having high liver enzymes after starting Armour. I'm on 3 grains. her: How dare you fear monger here and repeat the terrible rumors that doctors are telling you to believe. ARMOUR saved my life and I would will defend such a wonderful company as forest pharmaceuticals with all my might. They are ethical and fight for us!! (or something like that) me: Ummm, forest pharmaceuticals also makes Lexapro. Google " lawsuit lexapro " . The whole thread disappeared in less than 10 minutes and I was kicked off the board without comment... I kid you not! Never got around to mentioning that I was pissing out my whole skeleton as my calcium was leached from my bones (hadn't found out yet). I am NOT suggesting that Armour caused all these problems. I now know that any hyperthyroid state can cause these problems regardless of what hormone replacement is used AND that hyperthyroidism can be a subtle condition with real consequences. The real problem with the Armour websites are the pushing to take more and more without a care to hidden dangers like elevated liver enzymes and calcium leaching. ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Amy Green <amygreen53 (DOT) com> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:53:43 AM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? You're so right Venezia. Believe me, this is the only forum where I feel comfortable posting that I actually seem to be having some success with something other than Armour. Hopefully, I'll keep feeling better and better on this. It's funny -- my brother has been on synthroid for years -- is 58 -- has no other health problems, climbs mountains and bikes all over the country -- while I was home, feeling horrible, struggling to manage with Armour and yet telling him that Armour was the only way to go. . : ) Amy ____________ _________ _________ __ From: venizia1948 <nelsonck@sbcglobal . net> hypothyroidism Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:38:23 AM Subject: Re: progress maybe? Amy, This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help each other but there is a fine line here. So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling back down to where you were. Good luck to you, Venizia > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > Amy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. Â People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Â Â Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Lethal Lee <pricklefoot3@...> Subject: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 12:51 AM Hi Roni, " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm They arrive at that calc this way.... 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an " equivalent " amount or Armour. On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 grains. Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. Lethal Lee ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Amen. Gracia Hi Roni, " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm They arrive at that calc this way.... 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an " equivalent " amount or Armour. On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 grains. Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. Lethal Lee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 - Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Good question. " Because both calcium and magnesium compete for the same absorption mechanisms, the imbalanced intake associated with our modern diet may well lead to magnesium deficiency. One feature of magnesium deficiency is the inhibition of osteoblasts which are cells that build and maintain bones. One of the authors increased his bone density significantly by taking magnesium supplements alone. " http://paleodiet.com/losspts.txt ________________________________ From: venizia1948 <nelsonck@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 3:40:17 PM Subject: Re: progress maybe? Why then would they sell Mag/Calcium in one tablet? Venizia -- In hypothyroidism, <kennio@...> wrote: > > Magnesium and calcium compete for absorption. So if you are trying to restore mag levels it would not be a good idea. > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 Ditto Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: progress maybe? Why then would they sell Mag/Calcium in one tablet? Venizia -- In hypothyroidism , <kennio@...> wrote: > > Magnesium and calcium compete for absorption. So if you are trying to restore mag levels it would not be a good idea. > > > >________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 You must be have other hypo symptoms if you're here on a hypo forum, no? Tried Red yeast rice to lower cholesterol? ________________________________ From: <res075oh@...> hypothyroidism ; HypothyroidManagement Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:02:01 PM Subject: Re: progress maybe? There's one person on this list who has posted more than once that he/she has never met a person who takes $inthroid who is do well on it. I'm 68 and that's all I take. I have been giving some thought to trying Armour to see if it would negate my need for Lipitor. I'm a little hesitant to make changes when everything is going well. Luck, Cross posted to HypothyroidManageme ntgroups (DOT) com .. .. > > Posted by: " Amy Green " amygreen53 (DOT) com > <mailto:amygreen53 (DOT) com?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20progress% 20maybe%3F> > amygreen53 <http://profiles. / amygreen53> > > > Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:53 am (PDT) > > You're so right Venezia. Believe me, this is the only forum where I > feel comfortable posting that I actually seem to be having some > success with something other than Armour. Hopefully, I'll keep feeling > better and better on this. It's funny -- my brother has been on > synthroid for years -- is 58 -- has no other health problems, climbs > mountains and bikes all over the country -- while I was home, feeling > horrible, struggling to manage with Armour and yet telling him that > Armour was the only way to go. . : ) Amy > > ____________ > ____________ ________ > From: venizia1948 <nelsoncksbcglobal (DOT) net > <mailto:nelsonck% 40sbcglobal. net>> > hypothyroidism > <mailto:hypothyroid ism%40group s.com> > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:38:23 AM > Subject: Re: progress maybe? > > Amy, > > This just proves that we are all individuals who have to do what is > right for us. We can all state what works for us but should not TELL > someone this is what they SHOULD do. This is a great forum to help > each other but there is a fine line here. > > So glad this is working for you but as said make sure you get > your labs done about every 6 weeks or you may find you are falling > back down to where you were. > > Good luck to you, > Venizia > > > > > > I just started taking generic synthroid 3 days ago after a year of > trying to tolerate Armour. Even at 90mg of Armour, with decent looking > labs, I felt awful and my daily temps never could climb above 97.7 at > best. Already, at a only 25mcg of synthroid, my temps are about 98.1. > I'm also not having the horrible crawling muscle feelings that I've > put up with for so long. What do you guys make of that??? > > > > Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 roni- Have you tried another natural thyroid med? Like thyrolar or cytomel? -- Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 12:51 AM Hi Roni, " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm They arrive at that calc this way.... 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an " equivalent " amount or Armour. On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 grains. Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. Lethal Lee ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 That's what I was going to ask. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > Magnesium and calcium compete for absorption. So if you are trying to restore mag levels it would not be a good idea. > > > > ________________________________ > ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 When someone has a particular condition, it's common that they blame other symptoms on that condition too, without really checking out other things that could be causing the new symptoms. Several conditons can exist at the same time, and one is not necessarily the cause for any of the others. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075oh@...> Subject: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 5:48 PM I take 75 mcg Synthroid alone for hypothyroidism. I notice that those who take Armour seemingly need to also take a ton of other stuff to feel as well as I do. Iodine several hundred percent of the max RDA, adrenal treatment, sex hormones and a dozen or so vitamins and minerals plus other supplements... You name it. At the same time they will blame any other ailments I have exclusively upon the lack of Armour or the others myriad items they ingest; all with no credible support whatsoever. You read the evidence and make up your own mind. I don't recommend what I take to anyone, as I am not licensed to prescribe and I do not have the requisite education. The number of doses sold of Armour are fewer than 5% of the number of doses of Synthroid and its equivalents that are sold. While a number of people report vastly improved quality of life in going from Synthroid to Armour some report the opposite. In any credible controlled studies the improvement of going from Synthroid to Armour falls to placebo or chance. If it works for you, great. On many sites if it doesn't work for you and you mention the fact you will be booted off the list. Here you will find all kinds of opinions; and objections are seldom raised except for blatant rip-offs. .. .. > >     Posted by: " Lethal Lee " pricklefoot3@... >     <mailto:pricklefoot3@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20progress%20maybe%3F> >      pricklefoot3 <pricklefoot3> > > >      Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:51 am (PDT) > > Hi Roni, > > " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 > (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm > <http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000016.htm> > > They arrive at that calc this way.... > > 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 > " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. > > So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... > > 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) > 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 > > I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. > > Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. > So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an > " equivalent " amount or Armour. > > On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to > eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 > grains. > > Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other > contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/ > suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. > > Lethal Lee ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 remember that high cholesterol used to be the way hypoT was Dxed. Gracia > You must be have other hypo symptoms if you're here on a hypo forum, no? > Tried Red yeast rice to lower cholesterol? > > > > ________________________________ > From: <res075oh@...> > hypothyroidism ; HypothyroidManagement > Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 5:02:01 PM > Subject: Re: progress maybe? > > > There's one person on this list who has posted more than once that > he/she has never met a person who takes $inthroid who is do well on it. > I'm 68 and that's all I take. I have been giving some thought to trying > Armour to see if it would negate my need for Lipitor. I'm a little > hesitant to make changes when everything is going well. > > Luck, > > > Cross posted to HypothyroidManageme ntgroups (DOT) com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it. Gracia I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 wrote: > You must be have other hypo symptoms if you're here on a hypo forum, no? Tried Red yeast rice to lower cholesterol? That's a statin and it cannot be " standardized " by in it's advertising since then it would have to " declaring " how much it contained. There's no assurance of consistency from brand to brand or from bottle to bottle. In any case, I don't recommend a statin as all-cause-mortality across many large studies is unchanged. One pays for the side effects and the chance to live statistically as long as one would have lived without the statin but you get to die more often of cancer and other causes than heart attacks. Given a choice between surviving a heart attack and surviving a stroke or surviving cancer at some random place, I'll choose the heart attack every time. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Taking statins lowers cognitive skills. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 wrote: > One person commented to > me off list that " ...a number of sacred cows were contentedly > sleeping... " there before I came along! [ggg] They say, Sacred Cows taste the best! -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I know what you mean BUT on the other hand I have been on numerous forums where everyone is convinced that they have SOMETHING ELSE and that can be a huge waste of time in my opinion. Fuzzy hypo thinking gets people crazy. The forums for mercury poisoning, adrenal fatigue, morgellons parasites, candida, fungus, you name it..... those forums are loaded with people with thyroid disease and they are often under medicated with TSH's in the high range of normal. TSH is just not a reliable gauge of hypothyroidism. I personally think NOTHING ELSE should be considered as a cause of ill health until hypothyroidism and the vitamin and mineral deficiencies that it causes, are corrected. 1)Get the TSH under 1. 2)Get a Red blood cell analysis and cure the vitamin/mineral deficiencies including ferritin and Vitamin D I've off or resisted all medications that doctors foisted on me to treat my hypothyroidism symptoms and the resulting nutritional deficiencies. I've instead cured the deficiencies one by one and now I don't lay awake hearing my pounding, beat-skipping heart and worry it will stop in my sleep, worry I'm going nuts with anxiety or have constant fuzzy vision.... ALL symptoms of nutritional deficiency. Biggest results for me were from Magnesium... then Iron and Zinc close behind. ________________________________ From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 8:44:27 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? When someone has a particular condition, it's common that they blame other symptoms on that condition too, without really checking out other things that could be causing the new symptoms. Several conditons can exist at the same time, and one is not necessarily the cause for any of the others. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075ohverizon (DOT) net> Subject: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 5:48 PM I take 75 mcg Synthroid alone for hypothyroidism. I notice that those who take Armour seemingly need to also take a ton of other stuff to feel as well as I do. Iodine several hundred percent of the max RDA, adrenal treatment, sex hormones and a dozen or so vitamins and minerals plus other supplements. .. You name it. At the same time they will blame any other ailments I have exclusively upon the lack of Armour or the others myriad items they ingest; all with no credible support whatsoever. You read the evidence and make up your own mind. I don't recommend what I take to anyone, as I am not licensed to prescribe and I do not have the requisite education. The number of doses sold of Armour are fewer than 5% of the number of doses of Synthroid and its equivalents that are sold. While a number of people report vastly improved quality of life in going from Synthroid to Armour some report the opposite. In any credible controlled studies the improvement of going from Synthroid to Armour falls to placebo or chance. If it works for you, great. On many sites if it doesn't work for you and you mention the fact you will be booted off the list. Here you will find all kinds of opinions; and objections are seldom raised except for blatant rip-offs. .. .. > > Posted by: " Lethal Lee " pricklefoot3. au > <mailto:pricklefoot3. au?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20progress% 20maybe%3F> > pricklefoot3 <http://profiles. / pricklefoot3> > > > Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:51 am (PDT) > > Hi Roni, > > " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 > (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm > <http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm> > > They arrive at that calc this way.... > > 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 > " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. > > So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... > > 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) > 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 > > I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. > > Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. > So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an > " equivalent " amount or Armour. > > On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to > eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 > grains. > > Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other > contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/ > suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. > > Lethal Lee ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 On the other hand... Thyroid disease causes huge magnesium loss and magnesium deficiency causes A-fib. " Magnesium is underused in acute atrial fibrillation " http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/312/7038/1101/b ________________________________ From: Gracia <circe@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:32:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it. Gracia I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Gracia, no disrespect, but I belong to a support group with thousands of members, some of whom are nurses and doctors. Many of the people have had horrendous experiences with the afib, no one at all has suggested that it is an adrenal symptom, and it is not easy to treat. It is unpredictable, and can arise from different causes for different reasons. It is unpredicatable and can change into ventricular fibrillation, or other things. The heart can become enlarged, a patient can go into CHF, need valve replacement, catheter ablation, open heart surgery, and many times these procedures have to be done again and again. Please try to see the world for what it is, complicated. Not everything and everyone needs iodine and sex hormones, and not every condition is because of adrenal insufficiencies. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: Gracia <circe@...> Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 9:32 PM  A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it.    Gracia  I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour  from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together.     People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of  something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story.        Roni  <>Just because something  isn't seen doesn't mean it's  not there<>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------  No virus found in this incoming message.  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com  Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 My TSH is below 1, and has been for a very long time. The doctors are all convinced that it needs to be much higher, even though I have most of the symptoms of hypo, even with the TSH (latest reading .093). I asked for the vitamin D testing, and it was too low and so I have been on 1000 mgs daily since then, and it is now 32 (which is still low as far as I am concerned). I can't go to a naturopath because Medicare won't pay for anything but AMA doctors, procedures and drugs. I don't have the money to do any of this on my own.  If you have a heart that is skipping beats, there could be other reasons why. There are many triggers for irregular heart problems. Check them out on the web. Some of the doctors will try to convince you that you have sleep apnea, even if you have a deviated septum or horrendous sinuses. Be careful of these money sucking charletans.  Good luck. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075ohverizon (DOT) net> Subject: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 5:48 PM I take 75 mcg Synthroid alone for hypothyroidism. I notice that those who take Armour seemingly need to also take a ton of other stuff to feel as well as I do. Iodine several hundred percent of the max RDA, adrenal treatment, sex hormones and a dozen or so vitamins and minerals plus other supplements. .. You name it. At the same time they will blame any other ailments I have exclusively upon the lack of Armour or the others myriad items they ingest; all with no credible support whatsoever. You read the evidence and make up your own mind. I don't recommend what I take to anyone, as I am not licensed to prescribe and I do not have the requisite education. The number of doses sold of Armour are fewer than 5% of the number of doses of Synthroid and its equivalents that are sold. While a number of people report vastly improved quality of life in going from Synthroid to Armour some report the opposite. In any credible controlled studies the improvement of going from Synthroid to Armour falls to placebo or chance. If it works for you, great. On many sites if it doesn't work for you and you mention the fact you will be booted off the list. Here you will find all kinds of opinions; and objections are seldom raised except for blatant rip-offs. .. .. > >     Posted by: " Lethal Lee " pricklefoot3. au >     <mailto:pricklefoot3. au?Subject=%20Re% 3A%20progress% 20maybe%3F> >      pricklefoot3 <http://profiles. / pricklefoot3> > > >      Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:51 am (PDT) > > Hi Roni, > > " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 > (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm > <http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm> > > They arrive at that calc this way.... > > 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 > " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. > > So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... > > 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) > 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 > > I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. > > Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. > So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an > " equivalent " amount or Armour. > > On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to > eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 > grains. > > Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other > contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/ > suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. > > Lethal Lee ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I was lucky to find cardiologists that 1. listened when I said that I react badly to drugs and wanted to try natural ways 2. worked with me with the natural ways 3. rx'd magnesium right away  I've been afib free now since 1/27th, which I realize is not a tremendously long time, but my heart feels stable, I stay away from my triggers (ALL of them) and I'm checked regularly by my cardios.  The only issue that remains is the hypo. I'm down to 1 grain of Armour, still have the low TSH, still have hypo symptoms, have an appointment on Thursday with the internist. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <kennio@...> Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 12:57 AM On the other hand... Thyroid disease causes huge magnesium loss and magnesium deficiency causes A-fib. " Magnesium is underused in acute atrial fibrillation " http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/312/7038/1101/b ________________________________ From: Gracia <circe@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:32:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it. Gracia I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 There is such a thing as too low a TSH with me. You're doctor diagnosed magnesium deficiency. You say you thought magnesium improved your A-fib too as I recall. You are or were taking an the inferior oxide. Magnesium symptoms are almost exactly that of Hypothyroidism. BTW, the vitamin D council suggests 5000IU for 3 months to restore vit D levels. I cured all those issues including the heart problems I mentioned by adjusting nutritional deficiencies. ________________________________ From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:44:50 AM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? My TSH is below 1, and has been for a very long time. The doctors are all convinced that it needs to be much higher, even though I have most of the symptoms of hypo, even with the TSH (latest reading .093). I asked for the vitamin D testing, and it was too low and so I have been on 1000 mgs daily since then, and it is now 32 (which is still low as far as I am concerned). I can't go to a naturopath because Medicare won't pay for anything but AMA doctors, procedures and drugs. I don't have the money to do any of this on my own. If you have a heart that is skipping beats, there could be other reasons why. There are many triggers for irregular heart problems. Check them out on the web. Some of the doctors will try to convince you that you have sleep apnea, even if you have a deviated septum or horrendous sinuses. Be careful of these money sucking charletans. Good luck. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <res075ohverizon (DOT) net> Subject: Re: progress maybe? hypothyroidism Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 5:48 PM I take 75 mcg Synthroid alone for hypothyroidism. I notice that those who take Armour seemingly need to also take a ton of other stuff to feel as well as I do. Iodine several hundred percent of the max RDA, adrenal treatment, sex hormones and a dozen or so vitamins and minerals plus other supplements. .. You name it. At the same time they will blame any other ailments I have exclusively upon the lack of Armour or the others myriad items they ingest; all with no credible support whatsoever. You read the evidence and make up your own mind. I don't recommend what I take to anyone, as I am not licensed to prescribe and I do not have the requisite education. The number of doses sold of Armour are fewer than 5% of the number of doses of Synthroid and its equivalents that are sold. While a number of people report vastly improved quality of life in going from Synthroid to Armour some report the opposite. In any credible controlled studies the improvement of going from Synthroid to Armour falls to placebo or chance. If it works for you, great. On many sites if it doesn't work for you and you mention the fact you will be booted off the list. Here you will find all kinds of opinions; and objections are seldom raised except for blatant rip-offs. .. .. > > Posted by: " Lethal Lee " pricklefoot3. au > <mailto:pricklefoot 3. au?Subject=% 20Re% 3A%20progress% 20maybe%3F> > pricklefoot3 <http://profiles. / pricklefoot3> > > > Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:51 am (PDT) > > Hi Roni, > > " 1 grain (60 mg) of Armour equals approximately 74 mcg of T4 > (Synthroid) " http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm > <http://www.drumlib. com/dp/000016. htm> > > They arrive at that calc this way.... > > 1 grain Armour contains 38mcg T4 + 9mcg T3 > " conventional " wisdom is that 1mcg T3 is 4 times as potent as T4. > > So 1 grain is supposedly equivalent to..... > > 38mcg T4 + (9mcg T3 x 4) > 38mcg + 36mcg = 74mcg T4 > > I dont think there IS any " equivalency " between Armour & T4 only meds. > > Most on T4 meds do badly or never completely feel well. > So IF you want to continue to feel poorly by all means take an > " equivalent " amount or Armour. > > On the other hand IF you want to feel well then take enough Armour to > eliminate your symptoms. That seems to be an average of between 3-5 > grains. > > Of course nothing will make you well if you havent addressed other > contributing factors like Adrenals, mineral & vitamin deficiencies/ > suboptimal levels, Sex Hormones, possible RT3 issues etc. > > Lethal Lee ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I agree, and I love the transdermal magnesium I use, I should love it b/c it is pricey but it doesn't eliminate my need for cortef. Gracia On the other hand... Thyroid disease causes huge magnesium loss and magnesium deficiency causes A-fib. " Magnesium is underused in acute atrial fibrillation " http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/312/7038/1101/b ________________________________ From: Gracia <circe@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:32:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it. Gracia I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Right.... you take cortef in order to tolerate Armour. Correct? ________________________________ From: Gracia <circe@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:42:44 AM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? I agree, and I love the transdermal magnesium I use, I should love it b/c it is pricey but it doesn't eliminate my need for cortef. Gracia On the other hand... Thyroid disease causes huge magnesium loss and magnesium deficiency causes A-fib. " Magnesium is underused in acute atrial fibrillation " http://www.bmj. com/cgi/content/ extract/312/ 7038/1101/ b ____________ _________ _________ __ From: Gracia <circefairpoint (DOT) net> hypothyroidism Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 9:32:45 PM Subject: Re: Re: progress maybe? A-fib is an adrenal symptom. fibro is very easy to treat and no one needs to suffer from it. Gracia I personally don't have an issue with taking more Armour. I have had to Lower my Armour from 2-1/2 grains to 1 grain because the TSH keeps coming up below range. It was <.01, and I was experiencing atrial fibrillation. I didn't want to, but finally started lowering my dose. The afib stopped on January 27th, which is wonderful. However, I feel like crap. I have fibromyalgia since 1998, but never so bad as now. I hurt all over my body very badly, and I'm exhausted. I don't do well on medications. I either react right away or after a few weeks, so I stay away from medications as much as I can. When I can't take the pain I take 1/2 of a Soma, which doesn't do more than take the edge off of the pain. A whole pill messes up my head and makes me feel awful. I'm a senior and I live alone, and I can't afford to be zonked out on pills. I'm allergic to narcotics to they're out all together. People are complicated mechanisms, and a simple admonition to take more or less of something may seem correct if one doesn't know the whole story. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 - Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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