Guest guest Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Welcome Sam, You sound like a breath of fresh air!!! I felt very upbeat after reading your email, and could almost visualise what you looked like!! I too feel fitter, sexier and healthier than I have felt in many a year. Hypo has not been kind to me re: some physical attributes, thinning of hair and loss of eyebrows. But what the heck! I do a good smoke and mirrors job every day with the funky wig (still fools 'em at work!) and my eyebrows I draw in daily, and still get asked where I get them professionally shaped!!! Piscean hypo's are good chameleons!!!! God Bless, and Good Health, Val Hello there, y'all Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die). I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound. Sam (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it? Gracia Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die). I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound. Sam (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart attack it's your responsibility, not mine. Roni --- <veetee@...> wrote: > Welcome Sam, > > You sound like a breath of fresh air!!! I felt very > upbeat after reading your email, and could almost > visualise what you looked like!! I too feel fitter, > sexier and healthier than I have felt in many a > year. Hypo has not been kind to me re: some physical > attributes, thinning of hair and loss of eyebrows. > But what the heck! I do a good smoke and mirrors job > every day with the funky wig (still fools 'em at > work!) and my eyebrows I draw in daily, and still > get asked where I get them professionally shaped!!! > Piscean hypo's are good chameleons!!!! > > God Bless, and Good Health, > > Val > > > Hello there, y'all > > > Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. > > I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + > Vit C, BHRT, and > Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches > tall and finally healthy > as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated > (self treat or die). > > I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a > motorcycle, have > fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in > the northest and > westest part of Washington State, and have > Basenjis and a Greyhound. > > Sam > (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) > k9gang@... > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Welcome Sam! When I read your post, I suspected you were Gracia's friend, don't know why, I just did. I am surprised you can take 11 grains of Armour but Gracia said if one takes iodoral and something else, I can't remember what right now, that one can tolerate more Armour. Gracia, I am also concerned about what my doctor is doing. I am willing to stick it out for another couple of months. If he goes to anymore extremes, I will be looking elsewhere; probably a Naturopath if I can find one in Milwaukee. Venizia > > > hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it? > Gracia > > Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. > > I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and > Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy > as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die). > > I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have > fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and > westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound. > > Sam > (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) > k9gang@... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC? > > > > > > hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just have to wait > long enough? Did Chuck fix it? > > Gracia > > > > Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. > > > > I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and > > Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy > > as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die). > > > > I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have > > fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and > > westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound. > > > > Sam > > (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) > > k9gang@ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter. gracia Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC? --- Recent Activity a.. 3New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi Sam .long time no hear from you doing well I see ,nice to have you here ,everyone has to see Sam ,out right smashing for her age,sorry Sam could resist ,.......forgive me on that one ,thought of you often ,glad you joined ,if anyone cn get your spirts up sam will Deborah Re: Hello there, y'all > Gracia, > > You wrote: >> >> hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just >> have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it? > > Not unless it was my threat to start a new list. > > I did realize that this pattern has happened before, that a whole bunch > of outdated newbie posts suddenly show up on the same day. That suggests > that we do have an unacknowledged list owner, who occasionally does > approve new posts. > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 WOWEE I made it!!!!! PHEW...I ended up emailing the list owner via another group. Persistence pays off. <grin> Sam (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... > > > hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it? > Gracia > > Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia. > > I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and > Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy > as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die). > > I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have > fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and > westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound. > > Sam > (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) > k9gang@... > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't think a lot of doctors, at least the ones I've come up against, know very much about desiccated thyroid. I would always hear the heart attack schpeel...oh brother. Hypos are at a 40% greater risk of heart issues... The last few times I went to medical people, I brought fotos (and of course dressed like a tart). Fotos of me before my healthy thyroid gland was destroyed (hubba hubba), fotos of me after it was destroyed and I was on synthroid (scarey creature from the black lagoon), and fotos of me getting healthier on Armour (one hot mama). And they are heartily impressed. And " then " I tell them I'm on 11 grains and their heads spin around on their axis, explode, and the first thing they want to do is lower my Armour. I pretty much tell them that will happen when pigs fly [pun]. I explain what " dosing by symptoms " means, and they understand, but they won't do it and even tho they see the results with their own 2 eyes, they don't believe it works. It's like trying to teach a 2yr old what the word " no " means... Simply put, I started on 2 grains of Armour and whenever my hypO symptoms returned, I increased by 1/2 grain. My hypO symptoms stopped returning when I was on 12 grains of Armour. That's what my body told me (via symptoms) it needed, and that's what it got. Please note that after starting Iodoral (iodine/iodide) I found that I needed to lower my Armour to 11 grains. If my hypO symptoms stopped at 6 grains, I'd be on 6 grains, if they stopped at 8 grains, I'd be on 8 grains. I'm just on 11 grains because that's apparently what my body needs. Oh and for us thyroidless folks, we do tend to need a bit more than the average person who still has a thyroid, even tho it may be a sick thyroid. More than 6 grains isn't unusual for the thyroidless it seems. Sam (thyroidless, iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... > > > this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess it is b/c of TSH tests. > would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from a brake pad? & ^%$# > Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though! > Gracia > > ===== > Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only > on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says > if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart > attack it's your responsibility, not mine. > > Roni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 where are you now? > > > yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter. > gracia > > > Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC? > > --- > Recent Activity > a.. 3New Members > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I thought that if you needed so much armour that it may be your adreanls that need the help. Am i wrong? Crystal > > > > > > this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess it > is b/c of TSH tests. > > would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from a > brake pad? & ^%$# > > Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though! > > Gracia > > > > ===== > > Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only > > on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says > > if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart > > attack it's your responsibility, not mine. > > > > Roni > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I started Armour back in June 2003, then added adrenal support. I took Cortef 5mg 4 times a day, but because my adrenals were sooooooooo fried, I switched to Deltacortril/prednisoLone (synthetic time release cortisol). I stayed on " Delta " for 2 years, and after starting Iodoral (iodine/iodide) my adrenals healed. Remember that we are all individuals and our individual hormonal needs definitely vary. I am extremely hypO on less than 11 grains of Armour. Recently I went to 10 1/2 grains (trying to solve a mystery) and that was the worst 2 weeks I've had in ages. I slept 12hrs a day, was constipated, had severe heart palps, hair loss, etc....it was gross. Back on 11 grains and I'm back to my old yippee wahoo self. Don't be taken aback by the " amount " that works.... As I said, it just happens to be the amount that my body says it needs....who am I to question... <grin> I feel awesome. I am not hypO nor hypEr. I can eat ANYTHING and NOT gain weight. I only loose weight if I diet. I have energy, I wake well rested, I feel like a teenager, just like I did before my healthy thyroid gland was destroyed. Really for truely. Sam (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... > > > > > > > > > this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess it > > is b/c of TSH tests. > > > would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from a > > brake pad? & ^%$# > > > Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though! > > > Gracia > > > > > > ===== > > > Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only > > > on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says > > > if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart > > > attack it's your responsibility, not mine. > > > > > > Roni > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 The problem with taking huge amounts of any hormone is that there is a negative effect on the receptors on the surface of the cell. It is a homeostatic mechanism the body uses to keep itself in balance. Too much hormones means fewer receptors for that hormone to bring it into the cell. Maybe it would be very difficult to lower the dosage again because you don't have enough receptors to get the hormone. I am not sure how this works, but its something to think about. And it is not anything that can be tested because it does not occur in the blood stream Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 central coastal Maine in the woods. 2 mini schnauzers and a bunch of cats. Gracia where are you now? > > > yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter. > gracia > > > Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC? > > --- > Recent Activity > a.. 3New Members > Visit Your Group > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't think anyone is advocating huge amounts of hormones, just the right amounts!!! Gracia The problem with taking huge amounts of any hormone is that there is a negative effect on the receptors on the surface of the cell. It is a homeostatic mechanism the body uses to keep itself in balance. Too much hormones means fewer receptors for that hormone to bring it into the cell. Maybe it would be very difficult to lower the dosage again because you don't have enough receptors to get the hormone. I am not sure how this works, but its something to think about. And it is not anything that can be tested because it does not occur in the blood stream Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 well I say baloney. I don't see it at all. It just doesn't translate into feeling well. Gracia Sam, You wrote: > ... There is no way a synthetic T4 > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it patentable), can give > a human body all the thyroid hormones. Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and animals, show that all the other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the same levels of conversion are achieved, at least in most people. There are always exceptions. Chuck ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/885 - Release Date: 7/3/2007 10:02 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Sorry Chuck, but that is baloney. I was on sythetics, both synthroid and levoxyl for 20-30 years! They did squat. I was still brain fogged, couldn't sleep, couldn't lose weight and even gained it - DH observed that I ate LESS than him and still gained weight - had a lot of side effects and on Armour I was surprised to find that all those things are being corrected. I don't care what " double blind " studies have been done; I care about results, and I am getting results after a lifetime of misery and sickness. I would rather read the results of doctors like Dr. Lowe: http://www.drlowe.com/index.htm and physicians that are like minded than any allopathic doc that is at the beck and call, and kowtowing to the pharmaceutical industry. I have had my fill of them. C. http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/ http://www.youngliving.com - essential oils http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com cccquilter53@... Embroidery from the Heart http://Embfromtheheart.etsy.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Thyroid hormones are basically atoms of iodine attached to rings of tyrosine. In an ideal utopian world, Chuck, you are right. But in the real world, 'tain't always so...unfortunately. Remember those old school chemistry/physics projects? On paper it should work, but in practice it turns in to a 13 legged fly/spider cross with yellow spots and antlers... In regards to synthetic T4, first off the human body has to recognize it as something bio-useful and open thyroid receptors. In the real world, that doesn't always happen. It's kinda like trying to feed a baby cold mashed peas...the kid clamps that little mouth shut and flatly refuses to say AWWWW, no matter what. The current list of thyroid hormones: Monoiodothyronine (T1) Diiodothyronine (T2) Triiodothyronine (T3) Tetraiodothyronine (T4) How about pentaiodothyronine, hexaiodothyronine, heptaiodothyronine, octaiodothyronine, nonaiodothyronine, decaiodothyronine...find these and you'll get a Nobel Prize... http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/hypotreatment.php " In a normally-functioning thyroid gland, some of the T4 is converted to T3, while the thyroid gland directly produces the remaining 20 percent of the T3. T2 and T1 are thyroid hormones that exist in smaller amounts in the body. " ... " The theory behind the use of synthetic T4 alone is that since the thyroid gland converts some T4 to T3, some of the synthetic T4 will be converted to T3 as well. A problem with this theory is that the thyroid gland of a hypothyroid person is already malfunctioning by not producing enough or any thyroid hormone, so its ability to convert T4 to T3 may be hampered too. " http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/function.php#conv " About 20 percent of the body's T3 comes from the synthesis of T3 within the thyroid. The rest of the T3 is derived when an enzyme (called a deiodinase) removes one iodine molecule from T4. While T4 is converted to T3 in a number of locations in the body, the main place that this occurs is in the liver. All the thyroid hormone metabolic activity comes from T3. " ... " T4 is in the body just to be converted to T3. In a normally-functioning thyroid, enough of this conversion process takes place. Most people with hypothyroidism do not have normally-functioning thyroids, however. " In my experience, me being totally without a thyroid gland at all, synthetic T4 converted into nothing other than a nearly insignificant amount of T3. Oh, Chuck, you should have seen me back when I was on T4 only. YIKES. You would have cried. I wish I would have had the wherewithall to run saliva tests on myself back when I was dying on synthcrap. My bloods showed my T4 to be extremely high and my T3 to be extremely low, dare I say getting close to being unmeasurable. I also am in close contact with quite a few other thyroidless people and their experiences on T4 are extremely similar. Synthetic T4 does not, in my opinion and experience, convert into " all " the other thyroid hormones. Desiccated thyroid contains all the thyroid hormones, as per testing. Sam (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized) k9gang@... http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html http://www.iodine4health.com http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623 http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html BHRT http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf ===== Sam, You wrote: > ... There is no way a synthetic T4 > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it patentable), can give > a human body all the thyroid hormones. Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and animals, show that all the other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the same levels of conversion are achieved, at least in most people. There are always exceptions. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Roni Molin wrote: > > > If T4 alone supplies all the needed hormones for > thyroid production, what is the reason I and so many > others on Synthroid alone had side effects and felt > badly. If it's doing it's job these things wouldn't > happen. Because not everyone is the same. Please try to follow the logic. Sam's original statement was that there is " no way a synthetic T4 ..., " thus claiming that T4 would not work for ANYONE. I did not say it would work for EVERYONE, just that it works for most. The fact there are exceptions does not invalidate my statement. Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered molecule is also patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every way to natural T4. It was produced by a synthetic process, but the result is the same molecule as a live gland produces. The dessicated gland also contains metabolic products of thyroxine, which the synthetic does not have, but the T4 component in both is identical. Chuck > > > ... There is no way a synthetic T4 > > > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it > > patentable), can give > > > a human body all the thyroid hormones. > > > > Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and > > animals, show that all the > > other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the > > same levels of > > conversion are achieved, at least in most people. > > There are always > > exceptions. > > > > Chuck > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 , You wrote: > > Sorry Chuck, but that is baloney. ... You also apparently could not follow my statement. I was contradicting Sam's claim that T4 would not work for anyone. It rather obviously works for most people for whom it is prescribed. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 It is not " an altered molecule " , it " has " an altered molecule which makes it patentable. Sam > Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered molecule is also > patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every way to natural T4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that not everyone's body is able to extract and convert what it needs on the Synthroid alone. Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Roni Molin wrote: > > > > > > If T4 alone supplies all the needed hormones for > > thyroid production, what is the reason I and so > many > > others on Synthroid alone had side effects and > felt > > badly. If it's doing it's job these things > wouldn't > > happen. > > Because not everyone is the same. Please try to > follow the logic. Sam's > original statement was that there is " no way a > synthetic T4 ..., " thus > claiming that T4 would not work for ANYONE. I did > not say it would work > for EVERYONE, just that it works for most. The fact > there are exceptions > does not invalidate my statement. > > Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered > molecule is also > patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every > way to natural T4. It > was produced by a synthetic process, but the result > is the same molecule > as a live gland produces. The dessicated gland also > contains metabolic > products of thyroxine, which the synthetic does not > have, but the T4 > component in both is identical. > > Chuck > > > > > > ... There is no way a synthetic T4 > > > > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes > it > > > patentable), can give > > > > a human body all the thyroid hormones. > > > > > > Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and > > > animals, show that all the > > > other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that > the > > > same levels of > > > conversion are achieved, at least in most > people. > > > There are always > > > exceptions. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Wow, I'm so honored.............LOL Roni --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Roni Molin wrote: > > > > > > Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that not > > everyone's body is able to extract and convert > what it > > needs on the Synthroid alone. > > > > I agree 100%. > > Chuck > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 sweetenloe1 wrote: > > if synthroid is identicle to what my body makes, then why did my hair > fall out so bad when i took it? Most likely, you weren't getting enough. However, it is also possible you weren't converting enough or were making too much RT3. Either way, it is still exactly the same molecule. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Edie, You wrote: > > Then why would so many of us feel better on Armour rather than Synthroid. > And you say that this list is the exception. I really don't think so.... Just read a few of the studies. Levothyroxine is now the third most prescribed drug, exceeded in sales only by hydrocodone and atorvostatin. It beats all the antibiotics and blood pressure meds. I know about a dozen people locally who take it, all with no problems whatsoever. That's a small sampling, but judging by the published numbers, it is quite representative. In contrast, this list attracts people who are having sufficient trouble with it, they are looking for help. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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