Hello there, y'all

[Guest guest]

Welcome Sam,

You sound like a breath of fresh air!!! I felt very upbeat after reading your

email, and could almost visualise what you looked like!! I too feel fitter,

sexier and healthier than I have felt in many a year. Hypo has not been kind to

me re: some physical attributes, thinning of hair and loss of eyebrows. But what

the heck! I do a good smoke and mirrors job every day with the funky wig (still

fools 'em at work!) and my eyebrows I draw in daily, and still get asked where I

get them professionally shaped!!! Piscean hypo's are good chameleons!!!!

God Bless, and Good Health,

Val

Hello there, y'all

Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and

Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy

as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die).

I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have

fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and

westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

[Guest guest]

hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just have

to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it?

Gracia

Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and

Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy

as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die).

I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have

fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and

westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

[Guest guest]

Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only

on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says

if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart

attack it's your responsibility, not mine.

Roni

--- <veetee@...> wrote:

> Welcome Sam,

>

> You sound like a breath of fresh air!!! I felt very

> upbeat after reading your email, and could almost

> visualise what you looked like!! I too feel fitter,

> sexier and healthier than I have felt in many a

> year. Hypo has not been kind to me re: some physical

> attributes, thinning of hair and loss of eyebrows.

> But what the heck! I do a good smoke and mirrors job

> every day with the funky wig (still fools 'em at

> work!) and my eyebrows I draw in daily, and still

> get asked where I get them professionally shaped!!!

> Piscean hypo's are good chameleons!!!!

>

> God Bless, and Good Health,

>

> Val

>

>

> Hello there, y'all

>

>

> Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

>

> I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral +

> Vit C, BHRT, and

> Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches

> tall and finally healthy

> as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated

> (self treat or die).

>

> I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a

> motorcycle, have

> fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in

> the northest and

> westest part of Washington State, and have

> Basenjis and a Greyhound.

>

> Sam

> (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> k9gang@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome Sam! When I read your post, I suspected you were Gracia's friend, don't

know

why, I just did. I am surprised you can take 11 grains of Armour but Gracia

said if one

takes iodoral and something else, I can't remember what right now, that one can

tolerate

more Armour.

Gracia, I am also concerned about what my doctor is doing. I am willing to

stick it out for

another couple of months. If he goes to anymore extremes, I will be looking

elsewhere;

probably a Naturopath if I can find one in Milwaukee.

Venizia

>

>

> hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just

have to wait

long enough? Did Chuck fix it?

> Gracia

>

> Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

>

> I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and

> Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally healthy

> as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or die).

>

> I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have

> fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and

> westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a Greyhound.

>

> Sam

> (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> k9gang@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC?

> >

> >

> > hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what

happened? Just have to wait

> long enough? Did Chuck fix it?

> > Gracia

> >

> > Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

> >

> > I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and

> > Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally

healthy

> > as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or

die).

> >

> > I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle, have

> > fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest and

> > westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a

Greyhound.

> >

> > Sam

> > (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> > k9gang@

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter.

gracia

Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC?

---

Recent Activity

a.. 3New Members

Visit Your Group

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam .long time no hear from you

doing well I see ,nice to have you here ,everyone has to see Sam ,out right

smashing for her age,sorry Sam could resist ,.......forgive me on that one

,thought of you often ,glad you joined ,if anyone cn get your spirts up sam

will

Deborah

Re: Hello there, y'all

> Gracia,

>

> You wrote:

>>

>> hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what happened? Just

>> have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it?

>

> Not unless it was my threat to start a new list.

>

> I did realize that this pattern has happened before, that a whole bunch

> of outdated newbie posts suddenly show up on the same day. That suggests

> that we do have an unacknowledged list owner, who occasionally does

> approve new posts.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

WOWEE I made it!!!!! PHEW...I ended up emailing the list owner via

another group. Persistence pays off. <grin>

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

>

>

> hooray Sam you broke through the barrier. I wonder what

happened? Just have to wait long enough? Did Chuck fix it?

> Gracia

>

> Hi there....I'm new here. Hey, Gracia.

>

> I am thyroidless, ovaryless, am taking Iodoral + Vit C, BHRT, and

> Armour Thyroid (11 grains). I am 4ft 11 inches tall and finally

healthy

> as a bull moose " because " I mostly self treated (self treat or

die).

>

> I'm 55, feel like I'm a teenager, look 36, ride a motorcycle,

have

> fired around 2 dozen docs over the years, live in the northest

and

> westest part of Washington State, and have Basenjis and a

Greyhound.

>

> Sam

> (thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

> k9gang@...

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think a lot of doctors, at least the ones I've come up

against, know very much about desiccated thyroid. I would always hear

the heart attack schpeel...oh brother. Hypos are at a 40% greater

risk of heart issues...

The last few times I went to medical people, I brought fotos (and of

course dressed like a tart). Fotos of me before my healthy thyroid

gland was destroyed (hubba hubba), fotos of me after it was destroyed

and I was on synthroid (scarey creature from the black lagoon), and

fotos of me getting healthier on Armour (one hot mama). And they are

heartily impressed. And " then " I tell them I'm on 11 grains and their

heads spin around on their axis, explode, and the first thing they

want to do is lower my Armour. I pretty much tell them that will

happen when pigs fly [pun].

I explain what " dosing by symptoms " means, and they understand, but

they won't do it and even tho they see the results with their own 2

eyes, they don't believe it works. It's like trying to teach a 2yr

old what the word " no " means...

Simply put, I started on 2 grains of Armour and whenever my hypO

symptoms returned, I increased by 1/2 grain. My hypO symptoms stopped

returning when I was on 12 grains of Armour. That's what my body told

me (via symptoms) it needed, and that's what it got. Please note that

after starting Iodoral (iodine/iodide) I found that I needed to lower

my Armour to 11 grains. If my hypO symptoms stopped at 6 grains, I'd

be on 6 grains, if they stopped at 8 grains, I'd be on 8 grains. I'm

just on 11 grains because that's apparently what my body needs.

Oh and for us thyroidless folks, we do tend to need a bit more than

the average person who still has a thyroid, even tho it may be a sick

thyroid. More than 6 grains isn't unusual for the thyroidless it

seems.

Sam

(thyroidless, iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

>

>

> this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess it

is b/c of TSH tests.

> would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from a

brake pad? & ^%$#

> Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though!

> Gracia

>

> =====

> Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only

> on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says

> if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart

> attack it's your responsibility, not mine.

>

> Roni

[Guest guest]

where are you now?

>

>

> yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter.

> gracia

>

>

> Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC?

>

> ---

> Recent Activity

> a.. 3New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

[Guest guest]

I thought that if you needed so much armour that it may be your

adreanls that need the help. Am i wrong?

Crystal

> >

> >

> > this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess it

> is b/c of TSH tests.

> > would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from a

> brake pad? & ^%$#

> > Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though!

> > Gracia

> >

> > =====

> > Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only

> > on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says

> > if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart

> > attack it's your responsibility, not mine.

> >

> > Roni

>

[Guest guest]

I started Armour back in June 2003, then added adrenal support.

I took Cortef 5mg 4 times a day, but because my adrenals were

sooooooooo fried, I switched to Deltacortril/prednisoLone (synthetic

time release cortisol). I stayed on " Delta " for 2 years, and after

starting Iodoral (iodine/iodide) my adrenals healed.

Remember that we are all individuals and our individual hormonal

needs definitely vary. I am extremely hypO on less than 11 grains of

Armour. Recently I went to 10 1/2 grains (trying to solve a mystery)

and that was the worst 2 weeks I've had in ages. I slept 12hrs a day,

was constipated, had severe heart palps, hair loss, etc....it was

gross. Back on 11 grains and I'm back to my old yippee wahoo self.

Don't be taken aback by the " amount " that works.... As I said, it

just happens to be the amount that my body says it needs....who am I

to question... <grin>

I feel awesome. I am not hypO nor hypEr. I can eat ANYTHING and NOT

gain weight. I only loose weight if I diet. I have energy, I wake

well rested, I feel like a teenager, just like I did before my

healthy thyroid gland was destroyed. Really for truely.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

> > >

> > >

> > > this is the kind of mentality you find about Armour. I guess

it

> > is b/c of TSH tests.

> > > would you go to a car mechanic who didn't know a muffler from

a

> > brake pad? & ^%$#

> > > Sam has no thyroid gland. She is a tiny thing though!

> > > Gracia

> > >

> > > =====

> > > Wow 11 grains seems like a huge amount to me. I'm only

> > > on 2 grains and asked my doctor for more and he says

> > > if you want it you can have it but if you have a heart

> > > attack it's your responsibility, not mine.

> > >

> > > Roni

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The problem with taking huge amounts of any hormone is that there is a negative

effect on the receptors on the surface of the cell. It is a homeostatic

mechanism the body uses to keep itself in balance. Too much hormones means

fewer receptors for that hormone to bring it into the cell. Maybe it would be

very difficult to lower the dosage again because you don't have enough receptors

to get the hormone.

I am not sure how this works, but its something to think about. And it is not

anything that can be tested because it does not occur in the blood stream

Joan

[Guest guest]

central coastal Maine in the woods. 2 mini schnauzers and a bunch of cats.

Gracia

where are you now?

>

>

> yes I am going to NYC if I can hopefully find a dog sitter.

> gracia

>

>

> Gracia wasn't it you going to NYC?

>

> ---

> Recent Activity

> a.. 3New Members

> Visit Your Group

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think anyone is advocating huge amounts of hormones, just the right

amounts!!!

Gracia

The problem with taking huge amounts of any hormone is that there is a

negative effect on the receptors on the surface of the cell. It is a homeostatic

mechanism the body uses to keep itself in balance. Too much hormones means fewer

receptors for that hormone to bring it into the cell. Maybe it would be very

difficult to lower the dosage again because you don't have enough receptors to

get the hormone.

I am not sure how this works, but its something to think about. And it is not

anything that can be tested because it does not occur in the blood stream

Joan

[Guest guest]

well I say baloney. I don't see it at all. It just doesn't translate into

feeling well.

Gracia

Sam,

You wrote:

> ... There is no way a synthetic T4

> drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it patentable), can give

> a human body all the thyroid hormones.

Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and animals, show that all the

other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the same levels of

conversion are achieved, at least in most people. There are always

exceptions.

Chuck

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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AM

[Guest guest]

Sorry Chuck, but that is baloney. I was on sythetics, both synthroid and levoxyl

for 20-30 years! They did squat. I was still brain fogged, couldn't sleep,

couldn't lose weight and even gained it - DH observed that I ate LESS than him

and still gained weight - had a lot of side effects and on Armour I was

surprised to find that all those things are being corrected. I don't care what

" double blind " studies have been done; I care about results, and I am getting

results after a lifetime of misery and sickness. I would rather read the results

of doctors like Dr. Lowe: http://www.drlowe.com/index.htm and physicians that

are like minded than any allopathic doc that is at the beck and call, and

kowtowing to the pharmaceutical industry. I have had my fill of them.

C.

http://catherineshypohelljourney.blogspot.com/

http://www.youngliving.com - essential oils

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

cccquilter53@...

Embroidery from the Heart

http://Embfromtheheart.etsy.com

[Guest guest]

Thyroid hormones are basically atoms of iodine attached to rings of

tyrosine. In an ideal utopian world, Chuck, you are right. But in the real

world, 'tain't always so...unfortunately.

Remember those old school chemistry/physics projects? On paper it should

work, but in practice it turns in to a 13 legged fly/spider cross with

yellow spots and antlers...

In regards to synthetic T4, first off the human body has to recognize it as

something bio-useful and open thyroid receptors. In the real world, that

doesn't always happen. It's kinda like trying to feed a baby cold mashed

peas...the kid clamps that little mouth shut and flatly refuses to say

AWWWW, no matter what.

The current list of thyroid hormones:

Monoiodothyronine (T1)

Diiodothyronine (T2)

Triiodothyronine (T3)

Tetraiodothyronine (T4)

How about pentaiodothyronine, hexaiodothyronine, heptaiodothyronine,

octaiodothyronine, nonaiodothyronine, decaiodothyronine...find these and

you'll get a Nobel Prize...

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/hypotreatment.php

" In a normally-functioning thyroid gland, some of the T4 is converted to T3,

while the thyroid gland directly produces the remaining 20 percent of the

T3. T2 and T1 are thyroid hormones that exist in smaller amounts in the

body. " ... " The theory behind the use of synthetic T4 alone is that since the

thyroid gland converts some T4 to T3, some of the synthetic T4 will be

converted to T3 as well. A problem with this theory is that the thyroid

gland of a hypothyroid person is already malfunctioning by not producing

enough or any thyroid hormone, so its ability to convert T4 to T3 may be

hampered too. "

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/function.php#conv

" About 20 percent of the body's T3 comes from the synthesis of T3 within the

thyroid. The rest of the T3 is derived when an enzyme (called a deiodinase)

removes one iodine molecule from T4. While T4 is converted to T3 in a number

of locations in the body, the main place that this occurs is in the liver.

All the thyroid hormone metabolic activity comes from T3. " ... " T4 is in the

body just to be converted to T3. In a normally-functioning thyroid, enough

of this conversion process takes place. Most people with hypothyroidism do

not have normally-functioning thyroids, however. "

In my experience, me being totally without a thyroid gland at all, synthetic

T4 converted into nothing other than a nearly insignificant amount of T3.

Oh, Chuck, you should have seen me back when I was on T4 only. YIKES. You

would have cried. I wish I would have had the wherewithall to run saliva

tests on myself back when I was dying on synthcrap. My bloods showed my T4

to be extremely high and my T3 to be extremely low, dare I say getting close

to being unmeasurable. I also am in close contact with quite a few other

thyroidless people and their experiences on T4 are extremely similar.

Synthetic T4 does not, in my opinion and experience, convert into " all " the

other thyroid hormones. Desiccated thyroid contains all the thyroid

hormones, as per testing.

Sam

(thyroid-less, Iodized, and Armour-ized)

k9gang@...

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/opt_Research_I.shtml

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-09/IOD_09.htm

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm

http://www.laurapower.com/iodinedeficiency.htm

http://www.vrp.com/art/1860.asp

http://www.quackcenter.com/ideficiency.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html

http://www.iodine4health.com

http://www.jcrows.com/iodine.html

http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/loadTest.htm

http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/loading.html

http://www.helpmythyroid.com/IOD4.htm

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_13/ai_n17212623

http://www.altsupportthyroid.org/dt.php

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art40118.asp

http://www.type2hypothyroidism.com/Type1VsType2.html

BHRT

http://www.medaus.com/p/Three-Rules-for-Using-BHRT___200,965.html

http://www.thecompounder.com/saliva-vs-serum.pdf

=====

Sam,

You wrote:

> ... There is no way a synthetic T4

> drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it patentable), can give

> a human body all the thyroid hormones.

Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and animals, show that all the

other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the same levels of

conversion are achieved, at least in most people. There are always

exceptions.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Roni Molin wrote:

>

>

> If T4 alone supplies all the needed hormones for

> thyroid production, what is the reason I and so many

> others on Synthroid alone had side effects and felt

> badly. If it's doing it's job these things wouldn't

> happen.

Because not everyone is the same. Please try to follow the logic. Sam's

original statement was that there is " no way a synthetic T4 ..., " thus

claiming that T4 would not work for ANYONE. I did not say it would work

for EVERYONE, just that it works for most. The fact there are exceptions

does not invalidate my statement.

Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered molecule is also

patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every way to natural T4. It

was produced by a synthetic process, but the result is the same molecule

as a live gland produces. The dessicated gland also contains metabolic

products of thyroxine, which the synthetic does not have, but the T4

component in both is identical.

Chuck

> > > ... There is no way a synthetic T4

> > > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes it

> > patentable), can give

> > > a human body all the thyroid hormones.

> >

> > Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and

> > animals, show that all the

> > other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that the

> > same levels of

> > conversion are achieved, at least in most people.

> > There are always

> > exceptions.

> >

> > Chuck

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> Sorry Chuck, but that is baloney. ...

You also apparently could not follow my statement. I was contradicting

Sam's claim that T4 would not work for anyone. It rather obviously works

for most people for whom it is prescribed.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

It is not " an altered molecule " , it " has " an altered molecule which

makes it patentable.

Sam

> Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered molecule is also

> patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every way to natural T4.

[Guest guest]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that not

everyone's body is able to extract and convert what it

needs on the Synthroid alone.

Roni

--- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Roni Molin wrote:

> >

> >

> > If T4 alone supplies all the needed hormones for

> > thyroid production, what is the reason I and so

> many

> > others on Synthroid alone had side effects and

> felt

> > badly. If it's doing it's job these things

> wouldn't

> > happen.

>

> Because not everyone is the same. Please try to

> follow the logic. Sam's

> original statement was that there is " no way a

> synthetic T4 ..., " thus

> claiming that T4 would not work for ANYONE. I did

> not say it would work

> for EVERYONE, just that it works for most. The fact

> there are exceptions

> does not invalidate my statement.

>

> Her phrasing that the synthetic T4 is an altered

> molecule is also

> patently false. Synthetic T4 is identical in every

> way to natural T4. It

> was produced by a synthetic process, but the result

> is the same molecule

> as a live gland produces. The dessicated gland also

> contains metabolic

> products of thyroxine, which the synthetic does not

> have, but the T4

> component in both is identical.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> > > > ... There is no way a synthetic T4

> > > > drug, with it's altered molecule (that makes

> it

> > > patentable), can give

> > > > a human body all the thyroid hormones.

> > >

> > > Baloney. The blood tests, both in humans and

> > > animals, show that all the

> > > other Ts are metabolic products of T4, and that

> the

> > > same levels of

> > > conversion are achieved, at least in most

> people.

> > > There are always

> > > exceptions.

> > >

> > > Chuck

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Wow, I'm so honored.............LOL

Roni

--- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote:

> Roni Molin wrote:

> >

> >

> > Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that not

> > everyone's body is able to extract and convert

> what it

> > needs on the Synthroid alone.

> >

>

> I agree 100%.

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sweetenloe1 wrote:

>

> if synthroid is identicle to what my body makes, then why did my hair

> fall out so bad when i took it?

Most likely, you weren't getting enough. However, it is also possible

you weren't converting enough or were making too much RT3. Either way,

it is still exactly the same molecule.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Edie,

You wrote:

>

> Then why would so many of us feel better on Armour rather than Synthroid.

> And you say that this list is the exception. I really don't think so....

Just read a few of the studies. Levothyroxine is now the third most

prescribed drug, exceeded in sales only by hydrocodone and atorvostatin.

It beats all the antibiotics and blood pressure meds. I know about a

dozen people locally who take it, all with no problems whatsoever.

That's a small sampling, but judging by the published numbers, it is

quite representative. In contrast, this list attracts people who are

having sufficient trouble with it, they are looking for help.

Chuck