Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

January 21, 2008

Nancie,

Where have they published their double blind studies?

Chuck

You wrote:

>

> Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist in thyroid

> diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at both

> Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA county system.

> Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing and she

> prescribes and USES armour in her practice.

January 21, 2008

That reflects much more poorly on your book than it does on peer

reviewed literature. Not that there aren't mistakes and even flaws;

there are. But the tendency is toward self correction more than any

other method.

>

> Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

>

<hypothyroidism/message/35549;_ylc=X3oDMTJxM29oM3V\

nBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzU1NDkEc2V\

jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMDk0NjM2Mg-->

>

> Posted by: " neil " neilneil@...

>

<mailto:neilneil@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Low%20Iron%20and%20Hypothyroi\

dism>

> onewaypockets <onewaypockets>

>

> Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:59 am (PST)

>

> Studies mean absolutely nothing in my book...just a source of

> employment and grants for those doing the work and funded by the huge

> drugs companies that reap the gains. Nice that the " study " that was

> just released on those cholesterol drugs where it was shown that the

> artery plaque was HIGHER...but the results were held for almost two

> years because they went against the drug company.

>

> You will see NO studies on Armour, as it is a very inexpensive drug,

> not some blockbuster like Viagra, etc.

>

> Neil

>

> > >

> > > Oh, you want " scientific studies " , no doubt from allopathic journals?

> > > You know perfectly well they don't exist,...

> >

> > You are quite correct about my expectations. I would have been very

> > surprised had you come up with any evidence resembling science.

> >

> > Chuck

January 21, 2008

Nancie, Neil did not say osteoporosis is only caused by synthetic T4.

He said it's just another bad side effect of T4. Bone loss can be a

side effect of T4 according to the package inserts.

>

> neil-

> I have an issue with your statement that osteoporosis is JUST a

bad side effect of synthetic T4.

> that is NOT true. osteoporosis can be caused by many other factors

that have NOTHING to do with hypo T or synthroid.

> among them are: long term oral and IV steroid use; genetics; some

chemo meds; menopause and premature ovarian failure.

> nancie

> RE: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

>

> Awwww....thanks for the compliment Chuck!

>

> , They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis

> disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4)

>

> .

>

January 21, 2008

chuck-

Number one there is not a researcher alive that is going to run a study

purposely to cause the very serious adverse reaction that a low TSH can cause-

that would be MALPRACTICE.

they have learned that a very low TSH can cause these adverse reactions by

studying 1000's of patients' results from taking both T3 and T4 drugs. after

while, with multiple specialists seeing the same adverse reactions happening in

these populations- it becomes accepted as validated adverse reactions.

so, to answer your question about specific double-blind studies that targeted

and CAUSED AFIB and osteoporosis with both T3 and T4 meds- you are not going to

find them.

nancie

Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

Nancie,

Where have they published their double blind studies?

Chuck

You wrote:

>

> Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist in thyroid

> diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at both

> Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA county system.

> Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing and she

> prescribes and USES armour in her practice.

January 21, 2008

Low TSH causes osteoporosis, eh? Let's see, I had bone severe loss

from synthroid and from being severely hypOthyroid, and my TSH was no

where near supressed. On Armour, dosed by symptoms, and with such a

little TSH that it would probably scare Chuck and to pieces, I

have excellent bone density - aka bones of steel...at least according

to the bone density testing I have had. Yea, and according to all the

wild fun I have, too.

Sam

> >

> > Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist in

thyroid

> > diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at

both

> > Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA county

system.

> > Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing and

she

> > prescribes and USES armour in her practice.

>

January 21, 2008

Yes, I'm aware of that..I didn't infer you did. I was simply adding a

correction.

> >

> > neil-

> > I have an issue with your statement that osteoporosis is JUST a

> bad side effect of synthetic T4.

> > that is NOT true. osteoporosis can be caused by many other

factors

> that have NOTHING to do with hypo T or synthroid.

> > among them are: long term oral and IV steroid use; genetics;

some

> chemo meds; menopause and premature ovarian failure.

> > nancie

> > RE: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

> >

> > Awwww....thanks for the compliment Chuck!

> >

> > , They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis

> > disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4)

> >

> > .

> >

January 21, 2008

Uh-oh, you missed the smiley face...

> > > > ... Usually Hashi's patients require more to

> > fully suppress their

> > anti bodies and feel

> > > > well....

> > >

> > > This is more complete nonsense. Please give us

> > one bit of

> > scientific or

> > > documented evidence to support your claim that

> > Armour suppresses

> > > antibodies.

> > >

> > > At least you seem to be consistent.

> > >

> > > Chuck

> > >

> >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.8/1236 -

> > Release Date: 1/21/2008 8:23 PM

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> http://www./r/hs<http://www./r/hs>

>

January 21, 2008

Yes, absolutely. I don't know how long it took. I had bone density

tested while on synthcrap right before I started Armour...maybe early

2003 - started Armour early June 2003. Had dental work after starting

Armour that showed progressive improvement (stunned my dentist), and

another couple of bone density tests - one in 2006 and one last year

and both showed WOWEE bone density. Armour has calcitonin in it, plus

I ma no longer hypOthyroid, and definitely not on synthcrap

anymore.

Sam :-D

> > >

> > > Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist in

> thyroid

> > > diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at

> both

> > > Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA county

> system.

> > > Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing and

> she

> > > prescribes and USES armour in her practice.

> >

January 21, 2008

Nah, it looks like a regular smiley face to me.

<---regular smiley face

<---winking smiley face

:\ <---frustrated smiley face

<---tongue sticking out smiley face

:E <---vampire smiley face

haha :-D

> > > > > ... Usually Hashi's patients require more to

> > > fully suppress their

> > > anti bodies and feel

> > > > > well....

> > > >

> > > > This is more complete nonsense. Please give us

> > > one bit of

> > > scientific or

> > > > documented evidence to support your claim that

> > > Armour suppresses

> > > > antibodies.

> > > >

> > > > At least you seem to be consistent.

> > > >

> > > > Chuck

> > > >

> > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.8/1236 -

> > > Release Date: 1/21/2008 8:23 PM

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________________

> > Never miss a thing. Make your home page.

> > http://www.. <http://www./r/hs>

com/r/hs<http://www..

> <http://www./r/hs> com/r/hs>

> >

January 21, 2008

Nancie, you simply must stop fixating on the stupid idiotic TSH test.

You also need to remember (or learn) that once a human being is

taking desiccated thyroid and is no longer symptomatic, the TSH will

be quite low, even unmeasurable. That is what happens!

Boniva? BONIVA? ACK! Boniva, Fosamax and the like are dreadful drugs.

Do you know what they do for bones? Oh yea, they sure get bones

dense...dense and brittle, old bone on old bone with no new bone

growth, and imagine what that does to the jaw bone? Do you realize

that if someone is taking those types of drugs, many dentists refuse

to pull teeth or do many types of dental work because of the

heightened potential damage to the jaw bone? If I were you I wouldn't

be recommending that trash to anyone who doesn't want to destroy

their health. I have 3 dog show friends who are now cripples because

of that crap and they didn't have osteoporosis to begin with, they

were just over 50 and took what their doctors recommended!

Also please stop saying things I've not said or inferred. I'm a lot

more well read than you can imagine. I " know " the many things that

have the potential to cause osteo, and I " KNOW " the many things that

do NOT cause osteo, and I know for a FACT that being healthy and NOT

hypEr or hypOthyroid does NOT cause osteo.

Because you obviously have brain fog, I will say this again in hope

that you will remember, I AM NOT ON TOO MUCH THYROID REPLACEMENT!

I AM ON THE RIGHT AMOUNT " FOR ME " !!!!!

> > >

> > > Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist

in

> thyroid

> > > diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at

> both

> > > Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA

county

> system.

> > > Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing

and

> she

> > > prescribes and USES armour in her practice.

> >

January 22, 2008

I absolutely agree...I think the one of the primary causes of osteoporosis

is very long term hypo vitamin D, something older people suffer from almost

100%. And there are studies to back that up. Dr. , a cardiologist from

Milwaukee, tests everyone of his patients for serum vitamin D status. His

results? He finds out that 95% of his patients are deficient in the

wintertime. Certainly agreed that chemo and hormone problems can also be

huge causes too, although those patients are probably deficient before they

even get sick, and their situation becomes even more critical as they get

more ill.

My only point was that doctors freak out when patients TSH get too low on

synthetic T4, where on Armour many feel a low TSH is not a problem.

http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20060106/pregnant-vitamin-d-aids-babys-bones

Neil

________________________________

From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ]

On Behalf Of Nancie Barnett

Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 5:40 PM

hypothyroidism

Subject: Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

neil-

I have an issue with your statement that osteoporosis is JUST a bad side

effect of synthetic T4.

that is NOT true. osteoporosis can be caused by many other factors that have

NOTHING to do with hypo T or synthroid.

among them are: long term oral and IV steroid use; genetics; some chemo

meds; menopause and premature ovarian failure.

nancie

RE: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism

Awwww....thanks for the compliment Chuck!

, They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis

disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4)

..

January 22, 2008

Neil-

I agree with you. yes, we medical providers do freak out when the TSH gets

low, for 2 reasons. first is that we are afraid of the potential of AFIB and

OSTEO because in the right person- they can kill them either directly or

indirectly. and second; we do not want to do harm to the person.

when the TSH gets that low- it physiologically means that they are hyper T and

thus the risk is heightened.

you are correct that not everyone who has a low TSH <0.5 will have symptoms- but

as far osteo goes there usually ARE NO symptoms until they break a hip or a

bone, so how many of those people actually know if they have a bone density

problem, unless they get a dexta scan.

in regards to the AFIB, not having that is a good thing. so, maybe their adrenal

support and vitamins are helping prevent that which is excellent.

that is the interesting thing about thyroid disease is that Both HYPER T and

HYPO T can cause osteopenia and osteoporosis.

Hmm, my experience is even with providers who prescribe armour- they still worry

about a low TSH and the potential for AFIB and osteo. because the risk is still

there and the physiological state is still there. while they do NOT dose by TSH-

they still worry about AFIB and osteo.