Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Awwww....thanks for the compliment Chuck! Oh, you want " scientific studies " , no doubt from allopathic journals? You know perfectly well they don't exist, when they get patients with auto immune thyroid disease in the allopathic world they usually just prescribe (or force feed) RAI (for Grave's) or give a minimal dose of Levoxyl and Prozac (for Hashi's patients), keeping them dazed, obese, and in a world of hurt...and pronounce them cured! They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4) to dose enough to suppress Hashi's antibodies. Armour does not have the history of causing bone loss like synthetic T4 does. You need enough Armour to make the swollen thyroid " go to sleep " , then the anti bodies lessen greatly. I can offer this link... http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hashimotos/ " HOW DO I TREAT IT? You treat Hashi's the same way you do just plan hypothyroid-with thyroid medications. We have seen those on thyroxine T4-only have some success in stopping the attack, but patients who switched to Armour noticed even better results, especially if they dosed by symptoms rather than labs. Some doctors have unwisely recommended non-treatment until labwork " stabilizes " , but that could take months and years, and you continue to suffer. The attack can happen over a few weeks or extend into years. It has been stated that antibodies can be present for years even after you counter the attack with thyroid hormones like Armour. But patients on Armour have noted that antibodies greatly fall if they dose high enough. WHY DID MY HASHI'S GET WORSE ON ARMOUR (and even Synthroid and other T4 meds)? Easy answer: you have stayed on lower doses too long and you haven't risen high enough. Lower doses of Armour and other thyroid meds, as well as staying with each raise too long, will FEED the attack, not stop it. You then have further swelling in your throat, or a " goiter " or a raise in your antibodies.and heightened hypo symptoms. And doctors who aren't knowledgeable about Armour might put you back on synthetics. The solution is to RAISE THE ARMOUR according to the elimination of symptoms and NOT labs. You will need at least 3-5 grains before you stop that attack. " Neil ________________________________ From: hypothyroidism [mailto:hypothyroidism ] On Behalf Of Chuck B Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 3:56 PM hypothyroidism Subject: Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism Neil, You wrote: > ... Usually Hashi's patients require more to fully suppress their anti bodies and feel > well.... This is more complete nonsense. Please give us one bit of scientific or documented evidence to support your claim that Armour suppresses antibodies. At least you seem to be consistent. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Chuck- I don't know if Neil meant armour specifically or that by taking thyroid hormone replacement drugs in general, if you take enough your thyroid can shut down, the antibodies think that it's dead and stop attacking as hard or at all. I remember us all talking about it but that you said it in some sort of different way? Peace and coffee, --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > Neil, > > You wrote: > > ... Usually Hashi's patients require more to fully > suppress their anti bodies and feel > > well.... > > This is more complete nonsense. Please give us one > bit of scientific or > documented evidence to support your claim that > Armour suppresses > antibodies. > > At least you seem to be consistent. > > Chuck > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Tina, You wrote: > ... My endo. has never given > anyone Armour before, but she said " hey I'll try > anything within reason to make you feel better! " Make sure she understands that the TSH will tend to read low with Armour, due to the spike in T3. The latest study showed problems when TSH was held below 0.1 for extended periods using T4 only medication. It is not clear whether that has implications for low TSH under Armour or Cytomel. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Neil- Thank you very much for the kind words. It was really funny when I was back in Michigan with my family in terms of hypoT. Me, my Mom, and sister all planning out the day for when we would stop eating, take our armour etc. lol. It's interesting how things change .... never thought we'd ever be doing something like that ;-) Peace, --- Gracia <circe@...> wrote: > > high T3 can be found with adrenal probs--the > hormone isn't utilized by cells. > Gracia > > > , > > Interesting that her FT3 was so high on that dose, > everyone is so very > different....hope she continues to do better and > better. > > Neil > > _____ > > > Recent Activity > a.. 19New Members > Visit Your Group > Health > Fit for Life > > Getting fit is now > > easier than ever. > > Wellness Spot > Embrace Change > > Break the Yo-Yo > > weight loss cycle. > > > Home Improvement > > Learn and share > > do-it-yourself tips. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh, you want " scientific studies " , no doubt from allopathic journals? You know perfectly well they don't exist, when they get patients with auto immune thyroid disease in the allopathic world they usually just prescribe (or force feed) RAI (for Grave's) or give a minimal dose of Levoxyl and Prozac (for Hashi's patients), keeping them dazed, obese, and in a world of hurt...and pronounce them cured! They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4) to dose enough to suppress Hashi's antibodies. You need enough Armour to make the swollen thyroid " go to sleep " , then the anti bodies lessen greatly. I can offer this link... http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hashimotos/ " HOW DO I TREAT IT? You treat Hashi's the same way you do just plan hypothyroid–with thyroid medications. We have seen those on thyroxine T4-only have some success in stopping the attack, but patients who switched to Armour noticed even better results, especially if they dosed by symptoms rather than labs. Some doctors have unwisely recommended non-treatment until labwork " stabilizes " , but that could take months and years, and you continue to suffer. The attack can happen over a few weeks or extend into years. It has been stated that antibodies can be present for years even after you counter the attack with thyroid hormones like Armour. But patients on Armour have noted that antibodies greatly fall if they dose high enough. WHY DID MY HASHI'S GET WORSE ON ARMOUR (and even Synthroid and other T4 meds)? Easy answer: you have stayed on lower doses too long and you haven't risen high enough. Lower doses of Armour and other thyroid meds, as well as staying with each raise too long, will FEED the attack, not stop it. You then have further swelling in your throat, or a " goiter " or a raise in your antibodies…and heightened hypo symptoms. And doctors who aren't knowledgeable about Armour might put you back on synthetics. The solution is to RAISE THE ARMOUR according to the elimination of symptoms and NOT labs. You will need at least 3-5 grains before you stop that attack. " Neil > > > > Uh, Chuck? I've been told by Hashi's people doing this, that at their > > individual full replacement doses of Armour, with taking adrenal > > support (where necessary), and selenium (and magnesium where > > necessary), that their antibodies are no longer measurable. > > People can say all sorts of things without there being the remotest > connection to reality. Sometimes coincidences occur. That is why I asked > for scientific evidence that this claim is true. We have also heard from > people on this list who have had autoimmune storms recur even after > being medicated for awhile. > > Antibodies are produced in response to a complex, poorly understood > series of triggers. However, it seems much more likely that a lack of > thyroxine is the result of antibodies not the cause. Otherwise, there > would be no such thing as iodiopathic hypoT, in which the hormones > disappear without any antibody activity. > > Both types of thyroid antibodies seem to subside when the gland stops > functioning. Coincidentally, that is when most people start to need a > full replacement dose. To the extent that meds hasten the end of the > gland, they may contribute to eventual subsidence of the autoimmune > attack, but I see no reason to expect a direct influence. In fact, the > published studies we have listed at length before, suggest that all > forms of iodine exacerbate the antibodies. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 , You wrote: > > > I don't know if Neil meant armour specifically or that > by taking thyroid hormone replacement drugs in > general, if you take enough your thyroid can shut > down, the antibodies think that it's dead and stop > attacking as hard or at all.... That is the possible indirect influence I mentioned. However, that would not be the equivalent of " suppressing " antibodies. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Chuck- Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, how much closer can you get to that other than meds that kill certain antibodies specifically, which doesn't even exist. Peace, --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > , > > You wrote: > > > > > > I don't know if Neil meant armour specifically or > that > > by taking thyroid hormone replacement drugs in > > general, if you take enough your thyroid can shut > > down, the antibodies think that it's dead and stop > > attacking as hard or at all.... > > That is the possible indirect influence I mentioned. > However, that would > not be the equivalent of " suppressing " antibodies. > > Chuck > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Studies mean absolutely nothing in my book...just a source of employment and grants for those doing the work and funded by the huge drugs companies that reap the gains. Nice that the " study " that was just released on those cholesterol drugs where it was shown that the artery plaque was HIGHER...but the results were held for almost two years because they went against the drug company. You will see NO studies on Armour, as it is a very inexpensive drug, not some blockbuster like Viagra, etc. Neil > > > > Oh, you want " scientific studies " , no doubt from allopathic journals? > > You know perfectly well they don't exist,... > > You are quite correct about my expectations. I would have been very > surprised had you come up with any evidence resembling science. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 , You wrote: > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > doesn't even exist. Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune system could be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do that. Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said to suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the thyroid are things that cause an " irritation " response. These include iodine, injury, cigarette smoke, aspartame, and various steroids. If replacing thyroxines could be shown to directly reduce such inflammation or to interfere with the chemical messages, that might be called suppression. However, these hormones don't do that. Consequently, replacing missing hormones during or following destruction of the thyroid seems like a coincidence with cessation of the attack that destroys it. We also know that autoimmune attacks can end without the proper replacement dose, which supports the assumption that full dosage and antibodies disappearing are simply a coincidence. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Chuch, dear, any type of " studies " of the sort you are wanting would use synthetic thyroid drugs rather than desiccated thyroid and therefore would not show any positive influence against antibodies. With Hashi's, it seems, supressing the thyroid via desiccated thyroid at an eventual full replacement dose does indeed cause antibodies to stop attacking the thyroid. If you don't know where TPO antibodies come from, here is little bit of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_peroxidase " Thyroid peroxidase or Thyroperoxidase (TPO) is an enzyme mainly expressed in the thyroid that liberates iodine for addition onto tyrosine residues on thyroglobulin for the production of thyroxine (T4) or triiodothyronine (T3) (thyroid hormones). " " Inorganic iodine enters the body primarily as iodide, I-. After entering the thyroid follicle (or thyroid follicular cell) via a Na+/I- symporter (NIS) on the basolateral side, iodide is shuttled across the apical membrane into the colloid via pendrin, after which thyroid peroxidase oxidizes iodide to atomic iodine (I) or iodinium (I+). The " organification of iodine, " the incorporation of iodine to thyroglobulin for the production of thyroid hormone is inseparable from oxidation and is catalyzed by TPO. The chemical reactions catalyzed by thyroid peroxidase occur on the outer apical membrane surface and are mediated by hydrogen peroxide. " What happens in the presence of iodine deficiency and normal TPO? Sam > > > > Uh, Chuck? I've been told by Hashi's people doing this, that at their > > individual full replacement doses of Armour, with taking adrenal > > support (where necessary), and selenium (and magnesium where > > necessary), that their antibodies are no longer measurable. > > People can say all sorts of things without there being the remotest > connection to reality. Sometimes coincidences occur. That is why I asked > for scientific evidence that this claim is true. We have also heard from > people on this list who have had autoimmune storms recur even after > being medicated for awhile. > > Antibodies are produced in response to a complex, poorly understood > series of triggers. However, it seems much more likely that a lack of > thyroxine is the result of antibodies not the cause. Otherwise, there > would be no such thing as iodiopathic hypoT, in which the hormones > disappear without any antibody activity. > > Both types of thyroid antibodies seem to subside when the gland stops > functioning. Coincidentally, that is when most people start to need a > full replacement dose. To the extent that meds hasten the end of the > gland, they may contribute to eventual subsidence of the autoimmune > attack, but I see no reason to expect a direct influence. In fact, the > published studies we have listed at length before, suggest that all > forms of iodine exacerbate the antibodies. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 To veer off from this a bit, I was given corticosteroids many times for bronchitis and asthma attacks. On my own, I didn't like what they were doing to me, and stopped as soon as I safely could. Is it possible that the long term effects from these steroid medications (I still keep an albuterol emergency inhaler handy, but only use it infrequently) have screwed up my thyroid antibodies, and eventually caused the Afib to get really bad? I do recall when I had it the first time, that it was about 20 years ago, and had been given steroids for allergic bronchitis. Then when it had been all over, it happened and had to be converted in the ER. Roni Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: , You wrote: > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > doesn't even exist. Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune system could be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do that. Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said to suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the thyroid are things that cause an " irritation " response. These include iodine, injury, cigarette smoke, aspartame, and various steroids. If replacing thyroxines could be shown to directly reduce such inflammation or to interfere with the chemical messages, that might be called suppression. However, these hormones don't do that. Consequently, replacing missing hormones during or following destruction of the thyroid seems like a coincidence with cessation of the attack that destroys it. We also know that autoimmune attacks can end without the proper replacement dose, which supports the assumption that full dosage and antibodies disappearing are simply a coincidence. Chuck --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I had a lung infection a few years back and was given those types of meds as well. I also used them minimally and do keep xopenex on hand if ever that happens again. No ill after-effects, tho. Yes I had A-fib but that seems to have been entirely motivated by low aldosterone - really amazing how treating that has put a sparkle on everything. Sam > > > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > > doesn't even exist. > > Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. > > A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune system could > be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do that. > Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said to > suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the thyroid are > things that cause an " irritation " response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Yes her name is Heckemeyer, but she is at the Mecy hospital Green in Birmingham! Even though I have health insurance I go there, because in my opinion they are the most experienced doctors around. They've seen it all! I work at U.A.B. Hospital, and some of our doctors work there as well. I work in Orthopedics. --- Silver <susanjsilver@...> wrote: > > Tina, > > I couldn't help but notice the " bama " in your email. > Please tell me this lovely doctor that listens to > you > is in Alabama! > > > > --- & Tina <bamachoppers@...> wrote: > > > Thank you Chuck...You always answer the real > > question. > > Thank everyone so much! My endo. has never given > > anyone Armour before, but she said " hey I'll try > > anything within reason to make you feel better! " > > When > > I print the responses from some in this group, she > > actually reads them! I know it's kinda scary, but > I > > think we are learning about Armour together! This > > group is so wonderful! > > --- Chuck B <gumboyaya@...> wrote: > > > > > Tina, > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > ...Does being hypothyroid > > > > have anything to do with iron deficiency? > > > > > > Yes. Without enough FT3, marrow cells slow > > > production of blood cells > > > producing anemia. > > > > > > Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > > Find them fast with Search. > > > http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Oh my gosh. The day I broke my back in 1987, I was in the emergency room and had it noted on the paperwork I was deathly allergic to codeine, and I voiced the same to the doctor who wrote me a prescription for codeine for pain even before he wrote the prescription, and after he wrote the prescription. Oh my... Sam :-o > > > > > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > > > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > > > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > > > doesn't even exist. > > > > Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. > > > > A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune system > could > > be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do that. > > Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said to > > suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the thyroid > are > > things that cause an " irritation " response. > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I wonder if they'd pay attention to a MedicAlert neon sign. Sam :-D > > > > > > > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > > > > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > > > > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > > > > doesn't even exist. > > > > > > Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. > > > > > > A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune > system > > could > > > be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do > that. > > > Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said to > > > suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the thyroid > > are > > > things that cause an " irritation " response. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. > Try it now. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Or brain transplant. Sam :-D > > > > > > > > > > Not the equivalent of suppressing antibodies? I mean, > > > > > how much closer can you get to that other than meds > > > > > that kill certain antibodies specifically, which > > > > > doesn't even exist. > > > > > > > > Quieting is not the same thing as suppressing. > > > > > > > > A chemical that directly reduces the activity of the immune > > system > > > could > > > > be said to be suppressing it. Corticosteroids are known to do > > that. > > > > Anti-inflammatory medications, such as NSAIDS may also be said > to > > > > suppress. The known triggers of autoimmune attacks on the > thyroid > > > are > > > > things that cause an " irritation " response. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Mobile. > > Try it now. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I didn't say antibodies came from TPO. I asked " What happens in the presence of iodine deficiency and normal TPO? " Fully replacing all the thyroid hormones via desiccated thyroid makes it unnecesary for the thyroid (et al) to produce thyroid hormones. Sam :-o > > > > Chuch, dear, any type of " studies " of the sort you are wanting would > > use synthetic thyroid drugs rather than desiccated thyroid and > > therefore would not show any positive influence against antibodies. > > > > With Hashi's, it seems, supressing the thyroid via desiccated thyroid > > at an eventual full replacement dose does indeed cause antibodies to > > stop attacking the thyroid. > > > > If you don't know where TPO antibodies come from, here is little bit > > of info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_peroxidase > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid_peroxidase> > > " Thyroid peroxidase or Thyroperoxidase (TPO) is an enzyme mainly > > expressed in the thyroid that liberates iodine for addition onto > > tyrosine residues on thyroglobulin for the production of thyroxine > > (T4) or triiodothyronine (T3) (thyroid hormones). " > > > > " Inorganic iodine enters the body primarily as iodide, I-. After > > entering the thyroid follicle (or thyroid follicular cell) via a > > Na+/I- symporter (NIS) on the basolateral side, iodide is shuttled > > across the apical membrane into the colloid via pendrin, after which > > thyroid peroxidase oxidizes iodide to atomic iodine (I) or iodinium > > (I+). The " organification of iodine, " the incorporation of iodine to > > thyroglobulin for the production of thyroid hormone is inseparable > > from oxidation and is catalyzed by TPO. The chemical reactions > > catalyzed by thyroid peroxidase occur on the outer apical membrane > > surface and are mediated by hydrogen peroxide. " > > > > What happens in the presence of iodine deficiency and normal TPO? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Roni, You wrote: > ... Is it possible that the long term effects from these steroid medications .... have > screwed up my thyroid antibodies, and eventually caused the Afib to get > really bad?... Hard to say. I don't think we know enough about autoimmune conditions to really specify such causes. Corticosteroids are used to TREAT many autoimmune conditions, such as your bronchitis (inflammation of the bronchi). Whether long term use will with certainty trigger or cause a withdrawal effect in another system is ambiguous. It may well require a combination of things, of which steroid use is just one possibility. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 chuck- the problems with having a low TSH <0.1 is the same regardless of whether you take T3 or T4 meds. . the problems are increased risk for osteoporosis and A-FIB and other cardiac disease. this info was confirmed by my doc, prudence hall. she agreed with me. nancie Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism Tina, You wrote: > ... My endo. has never given > anyone Armour before, but she said " hey I'll try > anything within reason to make you feel better! " Make sure she understands that the TSH will tend to read low with Armour, due to the spike in T3. The latest study showed problems when TSH was held below 0.1 for extended periods using T4 only medication. It is not clear whether that has implications for low TSH under Armour or Cytomel. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I am going to let my endo know this when I see her next month. As long as I do not go below 0.1 I will be ok? --- Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...> wrote: > chuck- > the problems with having a low TSH <0.1 is the same > regardless of whether you take T3 or T4 meds. . the > problems are increased risk for osteoporosis and > A-FIB and other cardiac disease. > this info was confirmed by my doc, prudence hall. > she agreed with me. > nancie > Re: Low Iron and > Hypothyroidism > > > Tina, > > You wrote: > > ... My endo. has never given > > anyone Armour before, but she said " hey I'll try > > anything within reason to make you feel better! " > > > Make sure she understands that the TSH will tend > to read low with > Armour, due to the spike in T3. The latest study > showed problems when > TSH was held below 0.1 for extended periods using > T4 only medication. It > is not clear whether that has implications for low > TSH under Armour or > Cytomel. > > Chuck > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Nancie, You wrote: > > the problems with having a low TSH <0.1 is the same regardless of > whether you take T3 or T4 meds. . the problems are increased risk for > osteoporosis and A-FIB and other cardiac disease. > this info was confirmed by my doc, prudence hall. she agreed with me. The research on which this is based used T4 only medications, which were over prescribed in an effort to suppress thyroid neoplasms. They detected minor cardiac and bone density changes whenever TSH was below 0.1 for more than 90 days. Although what you say may be likely, the conclusion is technically not supported by the data. There may be a difference. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 neil- I have an issue with your statement that osteoporosis is JUST a bad side effect of synthetic T4. that is NOT true. osteoporosis can be caused by many other factors that have NOTHING to do with hypo T or synthroid. among them are: long term oral and IV steroid use; genetics; some chemo meds; menopause and premature ovarian failure. nancie RE: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism Awwww....thanks for the compliment Chuck! , They are way too afraid of Osteoporosis disease (still another bad side effect of synthetic T4) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Chuck- not according to TED Friedman, MD who is a specialist in thyroid diseases and USES armour in his practice. He does research at both Cedars Sinai and at Drew university- which is part of LA county system. Plus, My doc Prudence Hall, MD also says the the same thing and she prescribes and USES armour in her practice. nancie Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism Nancie, You wrote: > > the problems with having a low TSH <0.1 is the same regardless of > whether you take T3 or T4 meds. . the problems are increased risk for > osteoporosis and A-FIB and other cardiac disease. > this info was confirmed by my doc, prudence hall. she agreed with me. The research on which this is based used T4 only medications, which were over prescribed in an effort to suppress thyroid neoplasms. They detected minor cardiac and bone density changes whenever TSH was below 0.1 for more than 90 days. Although what you say may be likely, the conclusion is technically not supported by the data. There may be a difference. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Tina- well, <0.1 is very low. My TSH levels are also that low. I have to be very careful and take extra calcium and boniva. plus I have to increase my dose very slowly to compensate until my thyroid equalizes out. nancie Re: Low Iron and > Hypothyroidism > > > Tina, > > You wrote: > > ... My endo. has never given > > anyone Armour before, but she said " hey I'll try > > anything within reason to make you feel better! " > > > Make sure she understands that the TSH will tend > to read low with > Armour, due to the spike in T3. The latest study > showed problems when > TSH was held below 0.1 for extended periods using > T4 only medication. It > is not clear whether that has implications for low > TSH under Armour or > Cytomel. > > Chuck > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ<http://mobile..c\ om/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 Peer reviewed literature is the gold standard of the world among intelligent, educated people. For anything less you may as well use the SWAG method. > > Re: Low Iron and Hypothyroidism > <hypothyroidism/message/35540;_ylc=X3oDMTJxdm9vOWx\ jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzE0NTY2NARncnBzcElkAzE3MDkyNTEwODIEbXNnSWQDMzU1NDAEc2V\ jA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIwMDk0NjM2Mg--> > > > > Posted by: " neil " neilneil@... > <mailto:neilneil@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Low%20Iron%20and%20Hypothyroi\ dism> > onewaypockets <onewaypockets> > > > Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:27 am (PST) > > Oh, you want " scientific studies " , no doubt from allopathic journals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.