losing weight

[Guest guest]

February 26, 2009 (Boston, Massachusetts) — It may be one of the most

commonsense observations ever to be validated in a diet study: people lose

weight if they eat fewer calories, regardless of where those calories come

from [1]. That's the upshot of a two-year study by Dr Sacks (Harvard

School of Public Health, Boston, MA) and colleagues, published in the

February 26, 2009 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

After two years, 811 overweight adults randomized to one of four

heart-healthy diets, each emphasizing different levels of fat, protein, and

carbohydrates, showed similar degrees of weight loss. On average, patients

lost 6 kg in six months, but gradually began to regain weight after 12

months, regardless of diet group.

According to Sacks, the research should help quell some of the

debate--fostered by decades of research and fad diets--over what types of

foods should be emphasized to produce weight loss.

If people can maintain a calorie deficit no matter what type of diet they

were on, they're going to lose weight.

" Research has looked at whether carbohydrate is more satiating than fat, or

whether protein is more satiating than carbohydrates, or whether overeating

fat puts more fat in the belly than overeating carbohydrates, etc, " Sacks

explained. " So what's concerned colleagues of mine on the nutrition

guideline panels in the past is the possibility that if we say that a 40%

fat diet is okay, that maybe that would lead to weight gain. But where this

study is going to be helpful is in saying 40% fat, 20% fat, it doesn't

matter. If people can maintain a calorie deficit no matter what type of diet

they were on, they're going to lose weight. "

Sacks, who is incoming chair of the AHA's Nutrition Committee, acknowledged

that nutrition advice in the past has worried too much about fat in the diet

" I'm very concerned that we maintain the focus on calories and keep the

focus off percent calories from fat, " he said.

Another important, if unsurprising, finding from the study was that people

who regularly attended counseling sessions over the two-year study were

significantly more likely to lose weight.

The findings should remind physicians to hammer home the importance of

losing weight. " Physicians really should, visit after visit, keep

encouraging patients to eat a heart-healthy diet that they can stick with,

that will help them lose weight, and try to get them involved in some kind

of support group or to see a dietician, " Sacks said.

Commenting on the study for heartwire, Dr Eckel (University of

Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver) said he wasn't surprised by the

study findings. " I think you can lose weight in a number of different ways,

and this study simply affirms that people who are successful are the people

who adhere to a program. . . . Ownership, by the patient, of the weight-loss

program is what proves successful, not the type of diet you chose. "

Diet Details

The diets tested in the study included the same types of foods, but in

different proportions, and were tailored to patients such that overall

calorie consumption was reduced by approximately 750 calories per day, with

each diet including a different macronutrient composition:

High-fat, average protein: 40% fat, 15% protein, 45% carbohydrate.

High-fat, high-protein: 40% fat, 25% protein, 35% carbohydrate.

Low-fat, average protein: 20% fat, 15% protein, 65% carbohydrate.

Low-fat, high-protein: 20% fat, 25% protein, 55% carbohydrate.

Participants were advised to exercise for at least 90 minutes per week, at a

moderate level, and were offered counseling sessions every eight weeks, with

group sessions held weekly or biweekly over the course of the study.

In all, 80% of subjects completed the trial, and 14% to 15% of subjects

managed to lose at least 10% of their initial body weight. Subjects

randomized to different groups reported similar degrees of satisfaction,

hunger, and satiety. All the diets reduced risk factors for diabetes and

cardiovascular disease at six months and two-year follow-up. At the two-year

mark, the low-fat diets and the highest carbohydrate diet fared better than

the high-fat diets and low-carb diet in terms of reducing LDL cholesterol.

By contrast, the lowest carbohydrate diet improved HDL-cholesterol levels

more than the highest carbohydrate diet. All of the diets produced slight

improvements in blood pressure and decreased the number of patients with

metabolic syndrome. All, with the exception of the highest carbohydrate diet

decreased fasting serum insulin levels.

External and Internal Motivators

An editorial accompanying Sacks et al's study applauds the duration of the

study and the low dropout rate but takes a dimmer view of the weight loss

achieved in the study and the ability of dieters to adhere to their diets

over time [2]. " Even these highly motivated, intelligent participants who

were coached by expert professionals could not achieve the weight losses

needed to reverse the obesity epidemic, " Dr Martijn B Katan (VU University,

Amsterdam, the Netherlands) writes. " The results would probably have been

worse among poor, uneducated subjects. Evidently, individual treatment is

powerless against an environment that offers so many high-calorie foods and

labor-saving devices. "

Sacks, speaking with heartwire, defended what he insisted was " clinically

meaningful " weight loss in his study, emphasizing that many people achieved

far greater losses than the average figure. Eckel, by contrast, was less

sanguine, pointing out that an average weight loss of 3.5 kg at two years

represents the best-case scenario, since real-life interventions rarely live

up to the research setting.

Katan, however, argues that " like cholera, obesity may be a problem that

cannot be solved by individual persons but that requires community action. "

He cites a French study that profoundly reduced obesity rates in children by

having everyone in the town commit to getting children to eat less and move

more, building sporting facilities and playgrounds, giving cooking workshops

to families, creating walking itineraries, etc.

" It is an approach that deserves serious investigation, because the only

effective alternative that we have at present for halting the obesity

epidemic is large-scale gastric surgery, " he writes.

In response, Sacks said simply that communitywide changes won't absolve

individual responsibility. " It's two factors. There's what each person puts

into his or her mouth, and there's what's out there for people to choose to

put in their mouths. "

Sacks and Katan disclosed having no conflicts of interest; disclosures for

other study authors are listed in the paper.

Sacks FM, Bray GA, Carey VJ, et al. Comparison of weight-loss diets with

different compositions of fat, protein, and carbohydrates. N Engl J Med 2009

360:859-873.

Katan MB. Weight-loss diets for the prevention and treatment of obesity. N

Engl J Med 2009; 360:923-924.

The complete contents of Heartwire, a professional news service of WebMD,

can be found at www.theheart.org, a Web site for cardiovascular healthcare

professionals.

[Guest guest]

I can agree with that.

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing

> that when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a

> problem with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting

> and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound

> heavier in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would

> adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it

> definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ________________________________

> F

>

> --

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

NO, the smiley did not come through... it was more of a grimace. So, now I'm

confused.

In one message you say:

Roni,

you are correct. Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

you are not eating enough calories every day to avoid muscle wasting.

Nancie

THEN this:

You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

Which is it? Do you know or are you just talking out your Bee Hind?

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:59:15 AM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

paul-

I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that.....

It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the

same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this

crazy diets.

I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when

they are on these diets.

Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories, by

constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets

I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise-

because frankly who has the energy!

BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets-

they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on

set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO

you do not.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

Starving people are not on 500 restricted calorie diets a day. They have a

zero calorie or very near zero diet a day- that is why they are starving.

There is a difference. When you place someone on a restricted calf.day diet

of 500 calf/day, the body functions differently than if you had zero

calories to eat/day.

So, let me be clear, in my experience, I have not seen weight loss in any

person who was on a 500 calf/day diet that did not exercise on the diet.

If you exercise, then I would expect to see some weight loss, but not long

term weight loss and I know that when that person came off the diet- they

would eventually gain all the weight back and then some. All the diets that

are around today are at least 1200 kcal/day. That is a more normal way of

living. Those diets shut down the metabolism to the level it was functioning

on the diet. It actually changes the set point for the metabolism to a much

lower basal metabolic rates. So, you may achieve quick weight loss [ and I

say MAY], but it will not be long term weight loss and that IS ONLY IF one

exercises while on the diet.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

Everyone is different. I am muscular and will lose weight on even a 500 cal a

day diet... or I should say especially on a 500 calorie a day diet. So we will

have to agree to disagree on that one.

What I was referring to was your contradictory statements about weight loss. So

you are saying that someone on 500 cals a day will burn MUSCLE instead of fat

and if they are on a sensible diet OR STARVING they will burn FAT before muscle?

Still confused here.

In one message you say:

Roni,

you are correct. Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

you are not eating enough calories every dayto avoid muscle wasting.

Nancie

THEN this:

You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissuewhich further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:22:31 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

Starving people are not on 500 restricted calorie diets a day. They have a

zero calorie or very near zero diet a day- that is why they are starving.

There is a difference. When you place someone on a restricted calf.day diet

of 500 calf/day, the body functions differently than if you had zero

calories to eat/day.

So, let me be clear, in my experience, I have not seen weight loss in any

person who was on a 500 calf/day diet that did not exercise on the diet.

If you exercise, then I would expect to see some weight loss, but not long

term weight loss and I know that when that person came off the diet- they

would eventually gain all the weight back and then some. All the diets that

are around today are at least 1200 kcal/day. That is a more normal way of

living. Those diets shut down the metabolism to the level it was functioning

on the diet. It actually changes the set point for the metabolism to a much

lower basal metabolic rates. So, you may achieve quick weight loss [ and I

say MAY], but it will not be long term weight loss and that IS ONLY IF one

exercises while on the diet.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

I don't find personal attack necessary. See my response to this study

that did NOT include a low carb diet arm in another post.

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> So you are saying that the NIH and the CDC are lying???

> Wow.

> that says a TON about you.

>

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>>

>> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat

>> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight,

>> without the exercise.

>>

>> Roni

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> steve-

>

> That study was done in 1976 and I wonder why it hasn't been replicated since

> then, manly because I bet all those patients regained their " weight loss "

> and more.

A 500 calorie a day diet works the same in 1976 as it does in 2009. The

purpose of that particular study was to see if HCG added anything to the

500 a day calorie diet. It did not. However, all 51 people lost an

average of 15+ lbs in 32 days ON a 500 calorie a day diet. NONE GAINED

WEIGHT AS YOUR ASSERT. Your assertion is completely false and you

cannot back it up with any kind of research. There are about a dozen

studies related to HCG and diet in the literature. Look for yourself.

This one clearly showed weight loss for ALL participants.

> Since there is NO reports from their so called scientific study

> that shows what happened after the study was over, you really can't

> intellectually believe their findings overall.

That is a straw man. The study was designed to test HCG. No one is

advocating a life time diet of 500 calories a day, no one.

> A intellectual honest study

> would have put in a follow up section to state whether or not the study

> subjects kept their weight loss or gained it all back. , which they did not.

> Now days that study would not even get published.

Another straw man argument.

> you can not achieve long term weight loss on those diets because you lose

> critical muscle tissue which is a major factor in driving your metabolism.

You said that 500 calories would cause weight gain. You are still in

error and still cannot back up your statements with any form of credible

evidence.

> Those diets are dangerous diets to be on and they cause many more problems

> than they benefit. They are not replicated now days, because the medical

> community has learned how dangerous they are.

Another straw man argument. The quality of the diet was not in

question, only the fact that you asserted that 500 calories a day would

result in weight gain. It does not unless one is a hamster.

> I have not seen one patient that went on one of those 500 cal/day disasters

> who loss any long term weight and all they did achieve was destroying their

> metabolic function. Plus, they actually gained weight on those diets.

Another straw man argument. If they lost weight and didn't gain weight

and you personally observed that, then your assertion that 500 calories

a day would result in weight gain is, at best, irrational.

> i can't believe that you would cite a study that is from the 70's that has

> references from the 50 and 60's. Medicine and nutrition knowledge has

> evolved since then.

Another straw man. A 500 calorie diet a day in 1976 and a 500 calorie a

day diet in 2009 will result in weight loss. The energy within a

calorie of sugar, fat, and protein hasn't changed in that time frame.

Steve

> Nancie

>

>

>

>

>

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>

>

>

>

>> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

> when

>

>> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

> with

>

>> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

>

>> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

>

>

>

>> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

> in

>

>> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

>

>> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

>

>> speeds up my metabolism.

>

>

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Informed consent a component of medical research.

There are quite a few people that are doing 500 calories a day with HCG

injections. I don't hear of anyone dropping dead. Anyone who is 50+

lbs overweight has 175,000+ calories of fat energy in reserves. If you

join an HCG forum on groups, you will be disabused of your position.

HcgDieters/

hcg2/

I was on several of these groups for a couple of months and got perhaps

500 posts a day - between 30000-45000 posts. These people are losing

weight on 500 calories a day with very few complications, very very few

people have any form of complications except the need to take some

potassium supplements. I determined by reviewing ALL the HCG research

that the HCG component was irreverent but that the 500 calorie a day

component was extremely valid, in fact, the core piece of their weight loss.

There are additional studies that show substantial weight loss.

However, the are NO studies that show weight gain on a 500 calorie a day

diet. So, there is additional research on very low calorie diets but

none that support your assertion of weight gain.

A calorie of energy in 1976 CE us the same as a calorie of energy in

2009 CE and it is the same as calorie of energy in 1066 CE.

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> steve-

> please, there are not studies, because it is considered MEDICAL MALPRACTICE

> to devise a study that limits a person to 500 calories a day.

> You are a smart guy and I can't believe that you can't see that it would be

> dangerous to specifically design a dangerous diet study like that.

> That is why there are no studies, other than that ancient one that you

> dragged up from 1976 which used references from the 50's and 60's. Lol

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> paul-

> I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that.....

> It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the

> same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

> 500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

> on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

> term.

All diets that result in weight loss lower total calories below

metabolic needs causing the body to call upon built up energy stores -

the result of which is weight loss.

> You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

> muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

> the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet?

Incorrect. Fat is lost on all diets that result in weight loss. If you

join a list practicing calorie restriction, you will find that they are

not fat people with little muscle.

http://lists.calorierestriction.org/mailman/listinfo/cr_lists.calorierestriction\

..org

> You

> gain all the weight back and more.

This has nothing to do with the type of diet and everything to do with

diet being designed as a temporary eating regime and not a lifestyle change.

> This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this

> crazy diets.

All diets result in people regaining their weight if and when they

switch back to their usual and customary eating habits. The only

longterm successful diets are not diets at all but lifestyle changes.

> I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when

> they are on these diets.

Exercise increased the number of calories burned resulting in faster

weight loss if calories eaten remain constant or allow one to eat more

food for the same weight non-exercise weight loss objective.

> Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories, by

> constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets

> I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise-

> because frankly who has the energy!

I do. Not eating all day has no effect on my energy level.

> BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets-

> they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on

> set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO

> you do not.

I see we also have an expert in " reality TV " . Good for you. I don't

watch the stuff.

Steve

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

<snip>

> High-fat, average protein: 40% fat, 15% protein, 45% carbohydrate.

>

> High-fat, high-protein: 40% fat, 25% protein, 35% carbohydrate.

>

> Low-fat, average protein: 20% fat, 15% protein, 65% carbohydrate.

>

> Low-fat, high-protein: 20% fat, 25% protein, 55% carbohydrate.

<snip>

None of these diets are low carb, none. Here's a response to this

study. I stand by my statement that the study has no low carb component

and is BS as it adds nothing to debate but obsfucation (obsfucation: To

totally obscure with non-germane information in a verbose manner, with

the intent to provide a non-answer, and provide total befuddlement.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=obsfucation). The

misinformation of the food health pyramid, low fat diet advocates, high

carb diet advocates, and the anti-saturated fat advocates is alarming as

the ignore real research and create fantasy research.

Now, the response:

http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/?p=3827

If New Research Says Weight Loss Is All About The Calories, Then Why Was

The Atkins Diet Omitted From The Study?

Posted on February 27th, 2009 by Jimmy

Dr. Sacks thinks his study is a slam dunk on the calorie hypothesis

It’s all about the calories you put in your mouth. Whether it’s low-fat,

low-carb, high-protein or whatever, in the end the only thing that makes

a difference when it comes to losing weight is calories. That’s the

conclusion of this study published in the February 26, 2009 issue of New

England Journal of Medicine paid for by the National Heart, Lung, and

Blood Institute of the National Institutes of Health that you’ve

undoubtedly seen plastered all across the news in the past couple of

days. And they’re so proud of themselves for confirming in their minds

that weight loss is simply about calories in, calories out and not about

any particular diet plan in particular. But there’s only one problem

with this: they didn’t include a genuine Atkins-styled low-carb diet in

the comparison!

Lead researcher Dr. Sacks, a professor of Cardiovascular Disease

Prevention in the Department of Nutrition at Harvard University, and his

researchers observed 811 overweight or obese older adults and put them

on one of four diet plans with the following fat/protein/carbohydrate

ratios over a period of two years:

DIET #1: 20/15/65 (low-fat, low-protein, high-carb)

DIET #2: 20/25/55 (low-fat, moderate-protein, high-carb)

DIET #3: 40/15/45 (moderate-fat, low-protein, moderate-carb)

DIET #4: 40/25/35 (moderate-fat, moderate-protein, moderate-carb)

If you’re playing along at home, then you’ll quickly realize that nota

single one of those diets even comes close to any reputable low-carb

diet plans like Atkins. Only DIET #4 approaches the lower-carb plan

created by Dr. Barry Sears’ called the Zone Diet which has a 40/30/30

ratio. A genuine low-carb diet would look something like 60/20/20 at the

highest level of carbs and most likely 75/20/5 for people who read Dr.

Atkins’ New Diet Revolution. It’s a very high-fat, moderate-protein,

low-carb diet during the weight loss phase. More on why this was omitted

from the Sacks study in a moment.

Each of the diet plans used in this study were forced to comply with the

“heart healthy” guidelines that restricted saturated fat calorie intake

to less than 8 percent of total calories, generous portions of fruits,

vegetables and whole grains, and a minimum of 20g of fiber daily. The

template for the diets was the infamous DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop

Hypertension) diet rather than any of the more popular diet books over

the past decade, including Atkins and Dr. Arthur Agatston’s South Beach

Diet.

The study participants were asked to attend weight loss meetings and

keep a journal of their food intake on the Internet. Each individual was

provided a calorie goal which was approximately 750 calories below their

daily needs to allegedly create a “calorie deficit” to induce weight

loss. However, none of them were allowed to dip below 1,200 calories a day.

As for exercise, they only had to engage in some kind of moderate

physical activity for 90 minutes a week so it would not be a major

factor in the weight loss. Dr. Sacks wanted the diet composition to be

the driving force in the study results above everything. So, what were

the results?

After six months on each of the diets, all of them lost an average of 13

pounds regardless of the diet they were required to follow. By the end

of the two-year study, they had kept off an average of 9 pounds and shed

1 to 3 inches off their waist–again, it didn’t matter which diet they

were on, it produced the same results. Likewise, increases in HDL

cholesterol, drops in LDL cholesterol and triglycerides were all ditto

at six months and two years. The study participants all said they

experienced satisfaction, fullness, and hunger control on their

particular plans.

While this study seems somewhat interesting to the researchers, it

really doesn’t mean anything about the differences in weight loss and

health benefits of any significant macronutrient ratio comparisons. Why

wouldn’t you want a 10/20/70 diet like Dr. Dean Ornish would prescribe

for weight loss and health as well as a 70/20/10 diet closer to the one

Dr. C. Atkins dedicated his life to? Dr. Sacks had his reasons

for purposely omitting a truly low-carb diet.

“People don’t stick with low-carbohydrate intake and we didn’t wantto

try anything unrealistic,” he said. “We tried a big range but a

reasonable range of fats, protein and carbohydrates.”

WHAT?! Dr. Sacks, with all due respect, where did you get your

conclusion that people who eat a carbohydrate-restricted diet don’t

stick with it? Since you’re a researcher, wouldn’t you want the evidence

to guide you rather than coming into an important research study with

some pre-disposed ideas about what is truth? I’ve been eating low-carb

for over five years as have thousands more who visit my blog–what

exactly is “unrealistic” about this way of eating?

Dr. Sacks says his study promotes “a very simple message that cuts

through all the hype: To lose weight, it comes down to how much you put

in your mouth—it’s not a question of eating a particular type of diet.”

Well, when you leave out one of the most popular diet plans over the

past decade from this comparison study, I can see how you would think

all diets work the same.

Or, should I say, how they all DON’T work the same way. I mean, come on,

only a 9-pound weight loss in two years for overweight and obese people?

This is progress? Not hardly. And adherence to the chosen weight loss

plan was poor to the point that virtually all four diets were the

same–so it stands to reason the results would be similar.

The researchers say their study will “give people lots of flexibility”

to choose the plan that’s right for them.

“Weight loss is very simplistically just reducing the amount of calories

that you take in, and any kind of healthy diet that allows you to do

that is the best,” they concluded.

NO, NO, NO! We’ll never know based on this study if a high-saturated

fat, ketogenic low-carb diet which may allow more calories than any of

the four diets in this study would produce even better health and weight

results. Weight loss is so much more than calories…it’s about making the

right choices of food for YOU. A Type 2 diabetic, for example, needs to

eat a very low-carb, high-fat diet.

I asked a few of my low-carb expert friends to weigh in on this study

with their thoughts.

Dana Carpender wrote in this blog post today that “the researchers

commented that they tried to make their diets ‘heart healthy,’ low in

cholesterol and saturated fats. This tells me that they’re working with

a paradigm I consider to be thoroughly disproven.”

Dr. Olson wrote in his Examiner.com column: “If they had really

wanted to test a low-carbohydrate diet, they would have tried an Atkins

diet, or the sugar-free diet I suggest. Those diets keep your blood

sugar low and, therefore, keep you from adding weight. Calories mean

nothing when you are talking about weight loss.”

Jackie Eberstein from Controlled Carbohydrate Nutrition responded to

this study by describing it as “an unfortunate waste of money.”

“It was flawed from the beginning. It’s clear that the intent was to do

a lower carb diet than the typical Western diet but to avoid using the

proven very low carb diet. If they used a very low carb diet such as

Atkins, the results would have been better and it would be harder to

sustain the calories in-calories out theory. By designing the study this

way they made sure that didn’t happen.

Why not use Atkins? Because those involved with the study seem to have a

strong anti-low carb bias. The designers of this study made sure that on

the most carb restricted version the amount of carbs was well above the

amount one would eat on Atkins. When carbs are too high, as in this

study, the positive metabolic advantages, such as significant fat

burning, that occurs with low carb are lost and it simply becomes

another calorie-controlled diet.

The bias of one of the researchers was clearly demonstrated with the

statement that an Atkins diet wasn’t used because people don’t stick

with a low carb intake. Tell that to the millions of people who do

everyday–in the process they get thinner, healthier, improve their

quality of life and reduce or eliminate medications.”

Well said, Jackie! Let’s see what the always entertaining and on-point

Brooklyn, NY-based SUNY Downstate biochemistry professor Dr.

Feinman from The Metabolism Society had to say about this Sacks study.

“I suspect that it is part of a new paradigm on the part of the

nutritional establishment which is a kind of ’scorched earth policy.’In

other words, having clearly failed at low fat, they are now trying to

say that no diet is good. The technique is NINO–nothing in, nothing out.

That is, make minimal changes and then show that nothing happened.”

That’s exactly what they’re doing, Dr. Feinman, and you’ve NAILED ‘em on

it! Finally, Dr. Jay Wortman from the My Big Fat Diet documentary chimed

in with his own feedback about the study as well.

“Both Sacks and his co-investigator, Bray, are on record as being

very opposed to the idea of a low-carb diet. For them to say that a

low-carb diet is as good as a low-fat diet is progress of a sort, I suppose.

I attended a lecture by Sacks a couple of years ago at a big conference

where he was promoting the idea of high protein. When I pointed out that

to achieve an increase in protein he reduced carbohydrate and that the

benefits may have been attributable to the lowered carb, he launched

into an angry diatribe about how low-carb had no scientific merit.

The other thing about this study is that the diets were ‘goals’ and the

fact is that most people didn’t stick to the assigned diet. A final

observation–35% carb is not low enough for people who have developed

insulin resistance. For these people, a very low carb diet almost

magically reverses their health problems. You would not expect to get

this kind of metabolic benefit from a diet of 35% carbs or greater.

Bottom-line: this study adds nothing to our understanding of diet and is

being used to shore up the untenable position that macronutrient content

is irrelevant, that only calories count. There is a growing scientific

literature telling us quite clearly that this is not true. These guys

are on the wrong side of a major paradigm shift.

And I couldn’t have summarized this study any better than that. What do

you think? Do you believe the researchers PURPOSELY left out the

inclusion of a ketogenic low-carb diet to skew their results? Share your

comments below.

You can e-mail Dr. Sacks regarding his questionable study results

by writing to fsacks@....

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

What is CK?  That interesting. My liver enzymes are high, but TSH is WAY low

(0.012) and my Free T3 is WAY high 11.08 with a range of 2.0-4.9.  I don't know

what to do about the high enzymes.  The doctor had no answers.

 

Pamela

From: <kennio@...>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

I also had that when I was taking too much Armour. You are Hyperthyroid and

that has raised your liver enzymes... a symptom of hyperthyroidism. I would

check PTT and do a 24hr calcium urinalysis. You're gonna see lots of calcium in

your urine.

I've read the forums too that say keep dosing more and more hormone until you

FEEL good. Well sometimes there is such a thing as too much of good thing.

Osteoporosis is just around the corner if you live hyper for very long.

" In general, excessive replacement of thyroid hormone in medications can also

result in signs and symptoms of hyperthyroidism. One of the problems that occurs

when the thyroid is too active, or when too much thyroid hormone medication is

given, is bone loss from osteoporosis. "

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=18637

________________________________

From: ARC <southallp@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:06:48 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

What is CK? That interesting. My liver enzymes are high, but TSH is WAY low

(0.012) and my Free T3 is WAY high 11.08 with a range of 2.0-4.9. I don't know

what to do about the high enzymes. The doctor had no answers.

Pamela

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

Wha is CK and PTT?   I don't know why my doc didn't suggest the urine analysis. 

It seems like the answer sinece I have osteo.

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

Forgot this

" Elevations of ALT and AST are not exclusive to liver pathology. Hyperthyroidism

has been found in several studies to increase serum levels of liver enzymes

including ALT and AST.8

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050315/1105.html

BTW, CK is Creatine Kinase... a muscle breakdown enzyme. With hyperthyroid it is

usually low.

________________________________

From: ARC <southallp@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:06:48 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

What is CK? That interesting. My liver enzymes are high, but TSH is WAY low

(0.012) and my Free T3 is WAY high 11.08 with a range of 2.0-4.9. I don't know

what to do about the high enzymes. The doctor had no answers.

Pamela

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

Yikes! I'm sorry to hear that. My PTT was altered too by my bout with

hyperthyroidism. PTT indicates vitamin K status... I became deficiency. Vit K

helps place calcium into the bone.

________________________________

From: ARC <southallp@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:34:51 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

Wha is CK and PTT? I don't know why my doc didn't suggest the urine analysis.

It seems like the answer sinece I have osteo.

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

You know sometimes doctor rely on blood calcium levels... which yours are

probably high normal so it looks OK. BUT the parathyroid controls blood calcium

levels fairly rigidly... all the while you pee out the calcium leaching from

your bones because of the hyper state.

________________________________

From: ARC <southallp@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:34:51 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

Wha is CK and PTT? I don't know why my doc didn't suggest the urine analysis.

It seems like the answer sinece I have osteo.

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 10:54 PM

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the

high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

[Guest guest]

You can have a difference of opinion with someone without being abusive.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <kennio@...>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

NO, the smiley did not come through... it was more of a grimace.  So, now I'm

confused.

In one message you say:

Roni,

you are correct. Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

you are not eating enough calories every day to avoid muscle wasting.

Nancie

THEN this:

You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

Which is it?  Do you know or are you just talking out your Bee Hind?

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:59:15 AM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

paul-

I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that.....

It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the

same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this

crazy diets.

I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when

they are on these diets.

Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories,  by

constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets

I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise-

because frankly who has the energy!

BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets-

they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on

set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO

you do not.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

She having a difference of opinion with herself. Seems confused about body fat

and muscle... whether it is consumed first or last or not at all.

One thing I do know......It is OK to just say " I don't know! " when you just

haven't a clue. And even better to say " I was wrong. " when you are.

>

>

> From: <kennio@...>

> Subject: Re: Losing Weight

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 12:52 PM

>

>

> NO, the smiley did not come through... it was more of a grimace.  So, now I'm

confused.

> In one message you say:

>

> Roni,

> you are correct. Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

> persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

> is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

> you are not eating enough calories every day to avoid muscle wasting.

> Nancie

>

>

> THEN this:

>

> You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

> 500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

> on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

> term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

> muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

> the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

> gain all the weight back and more.

>

> Which is it?  Do you know or are you just talking out your Bee Hind?

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

> hypothyroidism

> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:59:15 AM

> Subject: Re: Losing Weight

>

>

> paul-

> I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that.....

> It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the

> same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

> 500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

> on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

> term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

> muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

> the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

> gain all the weight back and more.

> This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this

> crazy diets.

> I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when

> they are on these diets.

> Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories,  by

> constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets

> I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise-

> because frankly who has the energy!

> BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets-

> they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on

> set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO

> you do not.

>

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not confused, but maybe you are....

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

I really don't appreciate you calling me a liar.

Maybe you need to look in the mirror before you make statements like this.

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh good, OUR debate is still on! Explain these contradictory statements you

made about body fat and muscle. This is the third time I've asked you to

explain yourself.

" Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

you are not eating enough calories every day to avoid muscle wasting. "

THEN YOU SAID THIS:

" You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet .....

You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism.... "

I'm guessing you're just gonna want to 'move on' with this debate too, right?

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:51:06 PM

Subject: Re: Re: Losing Weight

I am not confused, but maybe you are....

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

I NEVER called you a liar! You are more of what I would call a TROLL.

Wiki says:

" An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts

controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online

community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention

of provoking other users into an emotional response "

I think it's more in this case someone making sloppy arguments to bolster what

amounts to personal OPINIONS on matters stated as fact...not having the

slightest care of spreading false information or feeling the need to supply

links or references to support any of what you are writing. Much of what you

write is contradictory, red herring responses that you don't even bother to try

to correct or clarify AND that's disgraceful.

When pressed a troll will say something like " I done with you. " or " MOVE ON " .

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:02:21 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Losing Weight

I really don't appreciate you calling me a liar.

Maybe you need to look in the mirror before you make statements like this.

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

Since she has left the debate, let me guess. At 0 calories a day or

perhaps something less than 500 calories a day, she believe that fat is

used up first and muscle is used up last - she calls that " starvation " .

That's definitely wrong.

At 500 calories a day and perhaps up to the magic number of 1200

calories a day, she believes that muscle is " used " up first (along with

water) and fat second. That's definitely wrong as well.

Above 1200 and I'm out of guesses.

I believe the evidence has been building that insulin is the magic

ingredient. Any diet that lowers insulin will mobilize fat for energy

since elevated insulin tells fat cells to take in energy in and convert

it to fatty acids for storage and low insulin opens the doors to fat

cells the other way for fatty acids to be released from fat cells. High

carb diets that keep insulin high will block fat utilization from fat

stores and promote more breakdown of proteins while maintaining hunger

levels since insulin drops blood glucose quickly drives hunger to

replenish that glucose. Low carb diets limit fat loss while keeping a

more steady glucose level and minimizes hunger. Low carb diets also

limit muscle loss.

She also seems to believe that being overweight is caused by a " sluggish

metabolism " . Mostly, I believe it is a combination of high glycemic

foods, processed foods, a high calorie per unit of weight in food

choices, and low nutrition per per calorie in food choices (usually all

at the same time, like bread). If the food is too calorie dense, one

over eats to feel full. If the food is nutritionally weak, then one's

hunger drives one to eat more in order to get more nutrition and results

again in too many calories. In either case, these bad choices result in

more calories in than out and weight is gained. Eating the " right "

amount of calories of poorly chosen foods will leave one highly

undernourished.

It's nice to be able to claim that one eats well but is overweight

because of a " sluggish metabolism " , but the truth is that one usually is

eating poorly, very poorly. One should eat meat, fish, fowl, fruit in

season, veggies, nuts, and berries. Grains, legumes, starches, veggie

oils, and processed foods of all strips are best avoided. Eat anything

that a cave man could have beat to death with a stick or eaten raw or

with minimal cooking.

In the end, what is important is to have one's percentage of body fat

decreasing so loss of fat and some muscle will be a component. A person

that is overweight by 50+ lbs is going to need more muscle than one who

is closer to an optimum weight so the process of losing weight from

overweight to optimum weight will involve fat and muscle but the

percentage of body fat should be decreasing, not remaining the same.

Low carbs are the optimum ticket here.

Steve

wrote:

> Oh good, OUR debate is still on! Explain these contradictory statements you

made about body fat and muscle. This is the third time I've asked you to

explain yourself.

>

> " Muscle is the last to go. You see that with starving

> persons. The muscle is the last thing to go after the fat goes. That still

> is the same with exercise. You lose the fat, then the muscle starts to go if

> you are not eating enough calories every day to avoid muscle wasting. "

>

> THEN YOU SAID THIS:

>

> " You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet .....

> You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

> muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism.... "

>

> I'm guessing you're just gonna want to 'move on' with this debate too, right?

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

> hypothyroidism

> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:51:06 PM

> Subject: Re: Re: Losing Weight

>

>

> I am not confused, but maybe you are....

>

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>>

>> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

> when

>> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

> with

>> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

>> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>>

>> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

> in

>> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

>> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

>> speeds up my metabolism.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

I already explained myself and as I told Steve my participation in this

debate is ENDED!

have fun debating with yourself!

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>

[Guest guest]

- you are a piece of work, all I have to say is ROTFLMAO!

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

> --

>

> .

>

>