losing weight

[Guest guest]

If one cuts their carb intake to low, insulin levels will drop. High

insulin levels keep fat cells in " intake " mode. Low insulin levels

result in fat cells releasing fatty acids to burn for energy. So, it's

not true that the body will burn muscle before fat if insulin levels are

lowered from cutting carbs.

In fact, if one is overweight and cuts intake to 500 calories a day,

then insulin levels will drop dramatically, fatty acids will be released

from fat cells and the body will start burning fat/ketones. The liver

will slowly release much of it's sugar stores (glycogen stores) over

several days keeping insulin levels elevated some when starting such a

diet but after several days, the liver's glycogen will be mostly

depleted and insulin levels will finally fall. When that happens,

hunger practically disappears for the duration of fat loss and fat is

lost quickly, no matter what anyone says about slow metabolism. Burning

fat for energy is not as efficient as burning glucose for energy so that

that under this diet, metabolism " speed " is practically irrelevant.

Sometimes this is known as the " HCG " diet since some people believe that

they need to inject 125 IU of HCG/day for the diet to work. The HCG is

a waste of money and time.

Steve

Roni Molin wrote:

> , I never read anywhere that the body will burn muscle before fat if

deprived of sugar.

> It's easier for the body to conver fat than muscle, and I believe it will do

that first. However, if you are exercising to excess, I don't know if that

changes things.

>

>

> Roni

> <>Just because something

> isn't seen doesn't mean it's

> not there<>

>

>

>

>> Eileen I understand how you feel, but if you need the medication,

>> you need the medication.

>> Basically, you need to put in less than your body burns every day.

>> If you start making

>> your portions smaller, and cut down on sugars and other carbs by

>> reading the nutrition

>> labels, you will find that you can lose, slowly, but you will lose.

>> Then when you add some

>> exercise to that, you will lose some more. Good luck to you, I know

>> it's hard. I'm battling

>> the same thing.

>>

>> Roni

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I how I wish you were right and it was all that easy. Make that statement to

any bodybuilder who is struggling to lose weight and keep his (or her) hard

earned muscle and you will see how wrong that is however. Body building forums

are all about that issue.... retaining muscle.

>

> " Probably the most important point to remember about cortisol and diet is that

when glycogen (stored carbohydrate) in the body gets low, cortisol levels rise.

This makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that carbohydrate is your body's

preferred source of calories.

I disagree completely with the last statement. Hunter gather diets, the

one we evolved on, was for much of the year primarily protein and fat,

lots of fat. Hunter gathers groups prefered the most fatty part of the

meat and if they were going to discard any, it would be the low fat

muscle parts, often fed to the dogs. See the Weston A. Price Foundation

web site for more clarity on this. Carbs in quantity were often mostly

available at season's end. Such carbs, often contain fructose, a sugar

that is converted directly to fatty acids to store for energy use during

the winter and does not increase insulin levels.

> When the body does not have enough precious carbohydrates available,

alternative sources of energy must be found. The only other options the body has

for calories are fat and protein. Rising cortisol levels will speed up the

breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino

acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel. At the same time, rising cortisol

will speed up the release of free fatty acids (from your body fat stores),

making more body fat available for aerobic metabolism. (3,4)

> Despite the fact that your body may use more fat when your glycogen levels are

down, it will also use more muscle. "

Again, they are missing the " big " part of the picture. Lowered insulin

levels trigger fatty acid release from fat cell stores. Fat is burned

far in preference to protein.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

U r all forgetting something important here.,the body is amazing and u

will gain/or have trouble losing if u r toxic in some level. This is

you're bodys way of saving u,from these toxins. The fat serves as a

protective to all important body organs,and once this is resolved,so

will the weight. This is not an over night thing and can be frusterating

I know,but if u think of body fat as a protective mechanism,it may shed

a little relief. Also u need to retrain you're system,especially if u

have been one of the millions falling for the low cal low fat bull

****!! U NEED FAT!!!!!!! U also need to up you're cals,if u r used to

restricting,this restriction and lack of fat,causes muscle waste and

hormone imbalances.... I agree excersise will help,but disagree with

intensity,its duration,not intensity that will help. Unless u r a

competitive bodybuilder or running a triathalon,worry more about going

20mins,as opposed to how hard u push for 15mins,for example. Keep in

mind that body changes,and dealing with toxins,candia whatever,is not

going to happen quick,and it shouldn't... Deb

--aliano

[Guest guest]

http://www.westonaprice.org

wrote:

> I how I wish you were right and it was all that easy. Make that statement to

any bodybuilder who is struggling to lose weight and keep his (or her) hard

earned muscle and you will see how wrong that is however. Body building forums

are all about that issue.... retaining muscle.

>

> " Probably the most important point to remember about cortisol and diet is

that when glycogen (stored carbohydrate) in the body gets low, cortisol levels

rise. This makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that carbohydrate is your

body's preferred source of calories.

I disagree completely with the last statement. Hunter gather diets, the

one we evolved on, was for much of the year primarily protein and fat,

lots of fat. Hunter gathers groups prefered the most fatty part of the

meat and if they were going to discard any, it would be the low fat

muscle parts, often fed to the dogs. See the Weston A. Price Foundation

web site for more clarity on this. Carbs in quantity were often mostly

available at season's end. Such carbs, often contain fructose, a sugar

that is converted directly to fatty acids to store for energy use during

the winter and does not increase insulin levels.

> When the body does not have enough precious carbohydrates available,

alternative sources of energy must be found. The only other options the body has

for calories are fat and protein. Rising cortisol levels will speed up the

breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino

acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel. At the same time, rising cortisol

will speed up the release of free fatty acids (from your body fat stores),

making more body fat available for aerobic metabolism. (3,4)

> Despite the fact that your body may use more fat when your glycogen levels

are down, it will also use more muscle. "

Again, they are missing the " big " part of the picture. Lowered insulin

levels trigger fatty acid release from fat cell stores. Fat is burned

far in preference to protein.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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19:20:00

[Guest guest]

Thanks for corroborating that for me Nancie. Never having been a body builder, I

have seen firsthand how the body eliminstes fat first then muscle. I think if

someone is exercising too much, and sees a drop in weight, they have a tendency

to exercise more, which builds more muscle, which weighs more than fat. Not

keying in on the weight lost, but rather on size, and not increasing exercise

when there is a drop in size might be the key for .

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> From: eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan>

> Subject: Losing Weight

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM

>

> I got married two years ago.  Before my wedding i was in the gym and

> losing weight.  About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started

> levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right).  I tried going

> back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding).

> I cannot lose any weight.  It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off

> the meds go to the gym and lose the weight.

>

> Any suggestions.

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's the way I've learned it. I have diabetic friends that wanted to lose

weight, and their doctors told them to cut the carbs, and they all lost weight.

I lost weight on that method too. I have to be more moderate now because I have

other isssues, but it still works.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

>> Eileen I understand how you feel, but if you need the medication,

>> you need the medication.

>> Basically, you need to put in less than your body burns every day.

>> If you start making

>> your portions smaller, and cut down on sugars and other carbs by

>> reading the nutrition

>> labels, you will find that you can lose, slowly, but you will lose.

>> Then when you add some

>> exercise to that, you will lose some more. Good luck to you, I know

>> it's hard. I'm battling

>> the same thing.

>>

>> Roni

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

As I said I wish it were as easy as us all just agreeing that muscle is not

touched while fat is devoured as fuel first (which is ridiculous). There are

two states our body can be in while exercising.... Anabolic or Catabolic.

Anabolic simply means that you are building or creating new.

It can be the building of tissue, cells and/or organs.

Examples would be growth of muscle tissue (mass) or building up body size.

Catabolic is the break down of molecules/cells in your body.

Catabolism is what helps the body produce energy. It is the break down of large

molecules in to smaller pieces, and those pieces are stored as glycogen or fatty

acids. If you do not add nutrients to the body when you are catabolic you will

rid the body of these pieces (Viola! - Weight Loss).

You can not have both Anabolic and Catabolic processes occuring at the same

time. (This is why you are either bulking or cutting)

Although true, your body will switch between the two by signals it gets.

Guess what these signals are called.....Hormones!

The vehicle that delivers these hormones is your Metabolism.

Metabolism is, primarily, the chemical changes that occur within the tissue of

the body.

Enzymes drive metabolism and those enzymes come from nutrition .

Now, back to the Hormones!

Anabolic hormones include

Insulin Growth Factors (IGF's)

Growth Hormone

Insulin

Testosterone

Estrogen

Catabolic hormones would include...

Cortisol

Glucagon

Adrenalin(e)

When anabolism exceeds catabolism - growth occurs.

When catabolism exceeds anabolism - a loss of size/weight occurs.

The major catabolic effects of cortisol involve its facilitating the conversion

of protein in muscles and connective tissue into glucose and glycogen (cortisol

may increase liver glycogen). Gluconeogenesis involves both the increased

degradation of protein already formed and the decreased synthesis of new

protein. Cortisol can also decrease the utilization of glucose by cells by

directly inhibiting glucose transport into the cells.

Recent research has shown that increased cortisol levels also increased protein

(muscle) breakdown by 5% to 20%.

The major catabolic effects of cortisol involve its facilitating the conversion

of protein in muscles and connective tissue into glucose and glycogen (cortisol

may increase liver glycogen). Gluconeogenesis involves both the increased

degradation of protein already formed and the decreased synthesis of new

protein. Cortisol can also decrease the utilization of glucose by cells by

directly inhibiting glucose transport into the cells

________________________________

From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 4:31:25 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

Thanks for corroborating that for me Nancie. Never having been a body builder, I

have seen firsthand how the body eliminstes fat first then muscle. I think if

someone is exercising too much, and sees a drop in weight, they have a tendency

to exercise more, which builds more muscle, which weighs more than fat. Not

keying in on the weight lost, but rather on size, and not increasing exercise

when there is a drop in size might be the key for .

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>

> From: eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan>

> Subject: Losing Weight

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM

>

> I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and

> losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started

> levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going

> back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding).

> I cannot lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off

> the meds go to the gym and lose the weight.

>

> Any suggestions.

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

What casused your friends high liver enzymes?  Being hypo? 

From: <kennio@...>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM

It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of

skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.)

and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid... it's

happening to me and to my friend. Probably because we exercise so much. Note

that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on

thyroid hormone. My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to

mush and my facial skin hangs.

My friend is painfully under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and

she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK). It

is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I

personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n171641155374316/

[Guest guest]

she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically stated

that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500 calories

a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain weight,

regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that level of

calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down the

metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat.

that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study was

originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison.

a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple blinded

study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got say 1200

calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest

recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just for

basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting.

I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to weight gain

i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i still

consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in

metabolism and weight loss research would aggree!

Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I

personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my practices.

Nancie



Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

________________________________

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less

move more.

Nancie

-- Losing Weight

> hypothyroidism

> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM

>

> I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and

> losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started

> levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going

> back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding).

> I cannot lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off

> the meds go to the gym and lose the weight.

>

> Any suggestions.

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wouldn't advise going off the meds. If your body doesn't produce

thyroxine and you do not replace it you will go into myxedema coma and die.

Luck,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " eileen_kurlan " eileen_kurlan@...

> <mailto:eileen_kurlan@...?Subject=%20Re%3ALosing%20Weight>

> eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan>

>

>

> Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:09 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and

> losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started

> levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going back

> to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). I cannot

> lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off the meds go

> to the gym and lose the weight.

>

> Any suggestions.

[Guest guest]

High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver

or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her.

She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like

8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to

actually.

Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the high liver

enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3).

I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing.

________________________________

From: ARC <southallp@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 8:00:15 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

What casused your friends high liver enzymes? Being hypo?

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM

It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of

skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.)

and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid. .. it's

happening to me and to my friend. Probably because we exercise so much. Note

that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on

thyroid hormone. My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to

mush and my facial skin hangs.

My friend is painfully under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and

she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK). It

is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I

personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes.

http://www.springer link.com/ content/n1716411 55374316/

[Guest guest]

I think the biggest issue here is many of us with Hypo. gain weight

and we don't know why because we are not doing anything

different when we begin to gain it. Doctor's and society say,

" Oh it's just part of getting older, " or " Count your calories, work

out more. "

And we do, and still gain weight.

Thus a huge population goes untreated, get's fatter & sicker, and

no one ever looks at the root of the problem, or they don't know how to.

Ali

On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Nancie Barnett wrote:

> she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically

> stated

> that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500

> calories

> a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain

> weight,

> regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that

> level of

> calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down

> the

> metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat.

> that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study

> was

> originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison.

> a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple

> blinded

> study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got

> say 1200

> calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest

> recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just

> for

> basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting.

> I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to

> weight gain

> i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i

> still

> consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in

> metabolism and weight loss research would aggree!

> Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I

> personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my

> practices.

> Nancie

>

>

> Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP

>

> -- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing

> that when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a

> problem with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting

> and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound

> heavier in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would

> adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it

> definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ________________________________

> F

>

> --

>

>

> .

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ummm, if I was given 500 calories a day for a couple days I would lose 5 pounds

like immediately.

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:03:48 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically stated

that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500 calories

a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain weight,

regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that level of

calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down the

metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat.

that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study was

originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison.

a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple blinded

study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got say 1200

calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest

recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just for

basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting.

I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to weight gain

i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i still

consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in

metabolism and weight loss research would aggree!

Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I

personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my practices.

Nancie

Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

Or at the very least feel like hell and slowly lose bone density and develop a

greater propensity for heart disease.

Although I do have to say that going without thyroid hormone actually feels

better than being on thyroid hormone and not getting enough for some reason.

But both are not recommended for obvious reasons.

________________________________

From: <res075oh@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:09:58 PM

Subject: Re:Losing Weight

I wouldn't advise going off the meds. If your body doesn't produce

thyroxine and you do not replace it you will go into myxedema coma and die.

Luck,

..

..

>

> Posted by: " eileen_kurlan " eileen_kurlan

> <mailto:eileen_kurlan?Subject=%20Re% 3ALosing% 20Weight>

> eileen_kurlan <http://profiles. / eileen_kurlan>

>

>

> Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:09 pm (PDT)

>

>

>

> I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and

> losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started

> levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going back

> to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). I cannot

> lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off the meds go

> to the gym and lose the weight.

>

> Any suggestions.

[Guest guest]

Are you trying to be a pain in the ass?

Yes, you would initially lose some WATER weight, in the first few days,

then the body shuts down into the starvation mode and you do not lose any

weight.

And after you go off this stupid diet- you will have a metabolism that is

not functioning normally. So if you add in thyroid dz, you get a really

sluggish metabolism that needs to be addressed.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

It doesn't seem that your body is very happy with what you are doing with all

the exercise.

Sometimes we have to listen to our own bodies, whether it fits our particular

plan or not.

We are who we are, and we don't always fit neatly into the textbooks.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

From: <kennio (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

hypothyroidism

Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM

It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of

skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.)

and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid. .. it's

happening to me and to my friend.  Probably because we exercise so much.  Note

that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on

thyroid hormone.   My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to

mush and my facial skin hangs.

My friend is painfully  under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and

she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK).    It

is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I

personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes.

http://www.springer link.com/ content/n1716411 55374316/

[Guest guest]

I don't think I like your tone. You said " Anyone who is given only 500 calories

a day is going to gain weight,regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz " .

That is horse crap to put it bluntly.

I will lose weight if I reduce my calories to 500 mainly fat and muscle. I

think I know my body. You're not talking to a bunch of children here. I don't

care what your title is.

Ever watch " Survivor " ?? These people lose 30 pounds in less then 5 weeks with

severely reduced calories.

________________________________

From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:27:32 PM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

Are you trying to be a pain in the ass?

Yes, you would initially lose some WATER weight, in the first few days,

then the body shuts down into the starvation mode and you do not lose any

weight.

And after you go off this stupid diet- you will have a metabolism that is

not functioning normally. So if you add in thyroid dz, you get a really

sluggish metabolism that needs to be addressed.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

I have the Atkins book, and even have been to see Dr. Atkins himself at his

facility in New York. His diet works - hands down! I lost 40 pounds in 4

months on it without being or feeling deprived for one minute. I ate as much as

I wanted of the allowed food, protein,

fat, green vegetables (except peas), butter, well, you get the idea. I felt

good, I looked good and I personally feel it's the best. He also prescribed

supplements that most people never heard of at that time. He was an extremely

gifted, intelligent and brilliant cardiologist. If anyone is able to get to the

Atkins Center which is in New York City, and they want to lose weight without

going crazy with exercise, I would advise making an appointment. I'm sure you

have never been evaluated the way you will be evaluated at that place. It's the

most thorough I have ever seen or heard about. It's quite different from the 15

minute rat race most people are used to. Please understand, I went there a long

time ago, about 1985, and some things might have changed, but you could call and

talk to someone on the 'phone and find out the information. Make sure you have

good insurance, because there is a lot of work done on that visit, tests,

evaluations, consultations,

etc.

 

P.S. I kept the weight off till after the nurses study and stopped the HRT that

I was on at the time.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>> As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less

>> move more.

>> Nancie

>>

>> -- Re: Losing Weight

>> 

>> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat

>> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight,

>> without the exercise.

>>

>> Roni

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I lost 100 pounds 25 years ago and it became obvious then that my body wanted to

become fat again. My exercise has become a way of life. I've avoided the cycle

of gross obesity that runs in my family. I see my poor brothers and sister and

I can hardly recognize them because of these massive weight gains. I try to

help but they just don't associate the weight with their undertreated thyroids.

They prefer to be on an anti-depressants, calcium channel blockers and statins,

etc. rather than to find a doctor that really understands that thyroid disease

is more than treating TSH AND a TSH of 2.2 is NOT normal for many.

________________________________

From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...>

hypothyroidism

Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:26:47 AM

Subject: Re: Losing Weight

I have the Atkins book, and even have been to see Dr. Atkins himself at his

facility in New York. His diet works - hands down! I lost 40 pounds in 4 months

on it without being or feeling deprived for one minute. I ate as much as I

wanted of the allowed food, protein,

fat, green vegetables (except peas), butter, well, you get the idea. I felt

good, I looked good and I personally feel it's the best. He also prescribed

supplements that most people never heard of at that time. He was an extremely

gifted, intelligent and brilliant cardiologist. If anyone is able to get to the

Atkins Center which is in New York City, and they want to lose weight without

going crazy with exercise, I would advise making an appointment. I'm sure you

have never been evaluated the way you will be evaluated at that place. It's the

most thorough I have ever seen or heard about. It's quite different from the 15

minute rat race most people are used to. Please understand, I went there a long

time ago, about 1985, and some things might have changed, but you could call and

talk to someone on the 'phone and find out the information. Make sure you have

good insurance, because there is a lot of work done on that visit, tests,

evaluations, consultations,

etc.

P.S. I kept the weight off till after the nurses study and stopped the HRT that

I was on at the time.

Roni

<>Just because something

isn't seen doesn't mean it's

not there<>

>> As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less

>> move more.

>> Nancie

>>

>> -- Re: Losing Weight

>>

>> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat

>> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight,

>> without the exercise.

>>

>> Roni

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@ basicmail. net

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvoc ates.org/ quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

------------ --------- --------- ------

[Guest guest]

paul-

I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that.....

It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the

same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous

500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs

on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long

term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and

muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in

the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You

gain all the weight back and more.

This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this

crazy diets.

I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when

they are on these diets.

Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories, by

constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets

I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise-

because frankly who has the energy!

BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets-

they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on

set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO

you do not.

-- Re: Losing Weight

Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when

you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with

gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in

less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

speeds up my metabolism.

____________ _________ _________ __

F

--

..

[Guest guest]

steve-

That study was done in 1976 and I wonder why it hasn't been replicated since

then, manly because I bet all those patients regained their " weight loss "

and more. Since there is NO reports from their so called scientific study

that shows what happened after the study was over, you really can't

intellectually believe their findings overall. A intellectual honest study

would have put in a follow up section to state whether or not the study

subjects kept their weight loss or gained it all back. , which they did not.

Now days that study would not even get published.

you can not achieve long term weight loss on those diets because you lose

critical muscle tissue which is a major factor in driving your metabolism.

Those diets are dangerous diets to be on and they cause many more problems

than they benefit. They are not replicated now days, because the medical

community has learned how dangerous they are.

I have not seen one patient that went on one of those 500 cal/day disasters

who loss any long term weight and all they did achieve was destroying their

metabolic function. Plus, they actually gained weight on those diets.

i can't believe that you would cite a study that is from the 70's that has

references from the 50 and 60's. Medicine and nutrition knowledge has

evolved since then.

Nancie

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

>

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

>

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

We will have to agree to disagree.

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that

when

> you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem

with

> gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and

> running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change.

>

> If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier

in

> less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it

> upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely

> speeds up my metabolism.

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> F

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

steve-

please, there are not studies, because it is considered MEDICAL MALPRACTICE

to devise a study that limits a person to 500 calories a day.

You are a smart guy and I can't believe that you can't see that it would be

dangerous to specifically design a dangerous diet study like that.

That is why there are no studies, other than that ancient one that you

dragged up from 1976 which used references from the 50's and 60's. Lol

-------Original Message-------

From: Steve

>

>

.

[Guest guest]

So you are saying that the NIH and the CDC are lying???

Wow.

that says a TON about you.

-- Re: Losing Weight

>

> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat

> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight,

> without the exercise.

>

> Roni

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford