Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 If one cuts their carb intake to low, insulin levels will drop. High insulin levels keep fat cells in " intake " mode. Low insulin levels result in fat cells releasing fatty acids to burn for energy. So, it's not true that the body will burn muscle before fat if insulin levels are lowered from cutting carbs. In fact, if one is overweight and cuts intake to 500 calories a day, then insulin levels will drop dramatically, fatty acids will be released from fat cells and the body will start burning fat/ketones. The liver will slowly release much of it's sugar stores (glycogen stores) over several days keeping insulin levels elevated some when starting such a diet but after several days, the liver's glycogen will be mostly depleted and insulin levels will finally fall. When that happens, hunger practically disappears for the duration of fat loss and fat is lost quickly, no matter what anyone says about slow metabolism. Burning fat for energy is not as efficient as burning glucose for energy so that that under this diet, metabolism " speed " is practically irrelevant. Sometimes this is known as the " HCG " diet since some people believe that they need to inject 125 IU of HCG/day for the diet to work. The HCG is a waste of money and time. Steve Roni Molin wrote: > , I never read anywhere that the body will burn muscle before fat if deprived of sugar. > It's easier for the body to conver fat than muscle, and I believe it will do that first. However, if you are exercising to excess, I don't know if that changes things. > > > Roni > <>Just because something > isn't seen doesn't mean it's > not there<> > > > >> Eileen I understand how you feel, but if you need the medication, >> you need the medication. >> Basically, you need to put in less than your body burns every day. >> If you start making >> your portions smaller, and cut down on sugars and other carbs by >> reading the nutrition >> labels, you will find that you can lose, slowly, but you will lose. >> Then when you add some >> exercise to that, you will lose some more. Good luck to you, I know >> it's hard. I'm battling >> the same thing. >> >> Roni -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 wrote: > I how I wish you were right and it was all that easy. Make that statement to any bodybuilder who is struggling to lose weight and keep his (or her) hard earned muscle and you will see how wrong that is however. Body building forums are all about that issue.... retaining muscle. > > " Probably the most important point to remember about cortisol and diet is that when glycogen (stored carbohydrate) in the body gets low, cortisol levels rise. This makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that carbohydrate is your body's preferred source of calories. I disagree completely with the last statement. Hunter gather diets, the one we evolved on, was for much of the year primarily protein and fat, lots of fat. Hunter gathers groups prefered the most fatty part of the meat and if they were going to discard any, it would be the low fat muscle parts, often fed to the dogs. See the Weston A. Price Foundation web site for more clarity on this. Carbs in quantity were often mostly available at season's end. Such carbs, often contain fructose, a sugar that is converted directly to fatty acids to store for energy use during the winter and does not increase insulin levels. > When the body does not have enough precious carbohydrates available, alternative sources of energy must be found. The only other options the body has for calories are fat and protein. Rising cortisol levels will speed up the breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel. At the same time, rising cortisol will speed up the release of free fatty acids (from your body fat stores), making more body fat available for aerobic metabolism. (3,4) > Despite the fact that your body may use more fat when your glycogen levels are down, it will also use more muscle. " Again, they are missing the " big " part of the picture. Lowered insulin levels trigger fatty acid release from fat cell stores. Fat is burned far in preference to protein. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 U r all forgetting something important here.,the body is amazing and u will gain/or have trouble losing if u r toxic in some level. This is you're bodys way of saving u,from these toxins. The fat serves as a protective to all important body organs,and once this is resolved,so will the weight. This is not an over night thing and can be frusterating I know,but if u think of body fat as a protective mechanism,it may shed a little relief. Also u need to retrain you're system,especially if u have been one of the millions falling for the low cal low fat bull ****!! U NEED FAT!!!!!!! U also need to up you're cals,if u r used to restricting,this restriction and lack of fat,causes muscle waste and hormone imbalances.... I agree excersise will help,but disagree with intensity,its duration,not intensity that will help. Unless u r a competitive bodybuilder or running a triathalon,worry more about going 20mins,as opposed to how hard u push for 15mins,for example. Keep in mind that body changes,and dealing with toxins,candia whatever,is not going to happen quick,and it shouldn't... Deb --aliano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 http://www.westonaprice.org wrote: > I how I wish you were right and it was all that easy. Make that statement to any bodybuilder who is struggling to lose weight and keep his (or her) hard earned muscle and you will see how wrong that is however. Body building forums are all about that issue.... retaining muscle. > > " Probably the most important point to remember about cortisol and diet is that when glycogen (stored carbohydrate) in the body gets low, cortisol levels rise. This makes perfect sense when you keep in mind that carbohydrate is your body's preferred source of calories. I disagree completely with the last statement. Hunter gather diets, the one we evolved on, was for much of the year primarily protein and fat, lots of fat. Hunter gathers groups prefered the most fatty part of the meat and if they were going to discard any, it would be the low fat muscle parts, often fed to the dogs. See the Weston A. Price Foundation web site for more clarity on this. Carbs in quantity were often mostly available at season's end. Such carbs, often contain fructose, a sugar that is converted directly to fatty acids to store for energy use during the winter and does not increase insulin levels. > When the body does not have enough precious carbohydrates available, alternative sources of energy must be found. The only other options the body has for calories are fat and protein. Rising cortisol levels will speed up the breakdown of lean tissue (protein) in your body and convert the released amino acids into glucose (carbohydrate) for fuel. At the same time, rising cortisol will speed up the release of free fatty acids (from your body fat stores), making more body fat available for aerobic metabolism. (3,4) > Despite the fact that your body may use more fat when your glycogen levels are down, it will also use more muscle. " Again, they are missing the " big " part of the picture. Lowered insulin levels trigger fatty acid release from fat cell stores. Fat is burned far in preference to protein. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1992 - Release Date: 03/09/09 19:20:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks for corroborating that for me Nancie. Never having been a body builder, I have seen firsthand how the body eliminstes fat first then muscle. I think if someone is exercising too much, and sees a drop in weight, they have a tendency to exercise more, which builds more muscle, which weighs more than fat. Not keying in on the weight lost, but rather on size, and not increasing exercise when there is a drop in size might be the key for . Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan> > Subject: Losing Weight > hypothyroidism > Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM > > I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and > losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started > levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going > back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). > I cannot lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off > the meds go to the gym and lose the weight. > > Any suggestions. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 That's the way I've learned it. I have diabetic friends that wanted to lose weight, and their doctors told them to cut the carbs, and they all lost weight. I lost weight on that method too. I have to be more moderate now because I have other isssues, but it still works. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > >> Eileen I understand how you feel, but if you need the medication, >> you need the medication. >> Basically, you need to put in less than your body burns every day. >> If you start making >> your portions smaller, and cut down on sugars and other carbs by >> reading the nutrition >> labels, you will find that you can lose, slowly, but you will lose. >> Then when you add some >> exercise to that, you will lose some more. Good luck to you, I know >> it's hard. I'm battling >> the same thing. >> >> Roni -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 As I said I wish it were as easy as us all just agreeing that muscle is not touched while fat is devoured as fuel first (which is ridiculous). There are two states our body can be in while exercising.... Anabolic or Catabolic. Anabolic simply means that you are building or creating new. It can be the building of tissue, cells and/or organs. Examples would be growth of muscle tissue (mass) or building up body size. Catabolic is the break down of molecules/cells in your body. Catabolism is what helps the body produce energy. It is the break down of large molecules in to smaller pieces, and those pieces are stored as glycogen or fatty acids. If you do not add nutrients to the body when you are catabolic you will rid the body of these pieces (Viola! - Weight Loss). You can not have both Anabolic and Catabolic processes occuring at the same time. (This is why you are either bulking or cutting) Although true, your body will switch between the two by signals it gets. Guess what these signals are called.....Hormones! The vehicle that delivers these hormones is your Metabolism. Metabolism is, primarily, the chemical changes that occur within the tissue of the body. Enzymes drive metabolism and those enzymes come from nutrition . Now, back to the Hormones! Anabolic hormones include Insulin Growth Factors (IGF's) Growth Hormone Insulin Testosterone Estrogen Catabolic hormones would include... Cortisol Glucagon Adrenalin(e) When anabolism exceeds catabolism - growth occurs. When catabolism exceeds anabolism - a loss of size/weight occurs. The major catabolic effects of cortisol involve its facilitating the conversion of protein in muscles and connective tissue into glucose and glycogen (cortisol may increase liver glycogen). Gluconeogenesis involves both the increased degradation of protein already formed and the decreased synthesis of new protein. Cortisol can also decrease the utilization of glucose by cells by directly inhibiting glucose transport into the cells. Recent research has shown that increased cortisol levels also increased protein (muscle) breakdown by 5% to 20%. The major catabolic effects of cortisol involve its facilitating the conversion of protein in muscles and connective tissue into glucose and glycogen (cortisol may increase liver glycogen). Gluconeogenesis involves both the increased degradation of protein already formed and the decreased synthesis of new protein. Cortisol can also decrease the utilization of glucose by cells by directly inhibiting glucose transport into the cells ________________________________ From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 4:31:25 PM Subject: Re: Losing Weight Thanks for corroborating that for me Nancie. Never having been a body builder, I have seen firsthand how the body eliminstes fat first then muscle. I think if someone is exercising too much, and sees a drop in weight, they have a tendency to exercise more, which builds more muscle, which weighs more than fat. Not keying in on the weight lost, but rather on size, and not increasing exercise when there is a drop in size might be the key for . Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> > > From: eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan> > Subject: Losing Weight > hypothyroidism > Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM > > I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and > losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started > levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going > back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). > I cannot lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off > the meds go to the gym and lose the weight. > > Any suggestions. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 What casused your friends high liver enzymes? Being hypo? From: <kennio@...> Subject: Re: Losing Weight hypothyroidism Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.) and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid... it's happening to me and to my friend. Probably because we exercise so much. Note that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on thyroid hormone. My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to mush and my facial skin hangs. My friend is painfully under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK). It is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes. http://www.springerlink.com/content/n171641155374316/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically stated that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500 calories a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain weight, regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that level of calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down the metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat. that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study was originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison. a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple blinded study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got say 1200 calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just for basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting. I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to weight gain i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i still consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in metabolism and weight loss research would aggree! Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my practices. Nancie  Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP -- Re: Losing Weight Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely speeds up my metabolism. ________________________________ F -- .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less move more. Nancie -- Losing Weight > hypothyroidism > Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 6:20 PM > > I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and > losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started > levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going > back to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). > I cannot lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off > the meds go to the gym and lose the weight. > > Any suggestions. > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I wouldn't advise going off the meds. If your body doesn't produce thyroxine and you do not replace it you will go into myxedema coma and die. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " eileen_kurlan " eileen_kurlan@... > <mailto:eileen_kurlan@...?Subject=%20Re%3ALosing%20Weight> > eileen_kurlan <eileen_kurlan> > > > Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:09 pm (PDT) > > > > I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and > losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started > levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going back > to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). I cannot > lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off the meds go > to the gym and lose the weight. > > Any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 High CK... muscle breakdown. She would tell me all the time she had a bad liver or got bad chinese herbs or some other stuff different doctors would tell her. She under medicates with just one grain of Armour and lives with a TSH of like 8! She won't listen to me. She is an acquaintance from the gym I go to actually. Now that I'm diagnosed with hashimoto's I get the same thing with the high liver enzymes when I work out while hypo (low T3). I figured out what was happening to us with my doctor and testing. ________________________________ From: ARC <southallp@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 8:00:15 PM Subject: Re: Losing Weight What casused your friends high liver enzymes? Being hypo? From: <kennio (DOT) com> Subject: Re: Losing Weight hypothyroidism Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.) and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid. .. it's happening to me and to my friend. Probably because we exercise so much. Note that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on thyroid hormone. My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to mush and my facial skin hangs. My friend is painfully under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK). It is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes. http://www.springer link.com/ content/n1716411 55374316/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I think the biggest issue here is many of us with Hypo. gain weight and we don't know why because we are not doing anything different when we begin to gain it. Doctor's and society say, " Oh it's just part of getting older, " or " Count your calories, work out more. " And we do, and still gain weight. Thus a huge population goes untreated, get's fatter & sicker, and no one ever looks at the root of the problem, or they don't know how to. Ali On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Nancie Barnett wrote: > she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically > stated > that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500 > calories > a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain > weight, > regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that > level of > calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down > the > metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat. > that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study > was > originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison. > a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple > blinded > study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got > say 1200 > calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest > recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just > for > basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting. > I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to > weight gain > i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i > still > consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in > metabolism and weight loss research would aggree! > Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I > personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my > practices. > Nancie > > > Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP > > -- Re: Losing Weight > > Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing > that when > you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a > problem with > gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting > and > running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. > > If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound > heavier in > less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would > adjust it > upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it > definitely > speeds up my metabolism. > > ________________________________ > F > > -- > > > . > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ummm, if I was given 500 calories a day for a couple days I would lose 5 pounds like immediately. ________________________________ From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:03:48 PM Subject: Re: Losing Weight she brought it up and i replied to her post. alison specifically stated that there were studies done where the subjects were only given 500 calories a day. Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain weight, regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz. Because, at that level of calories, the body thinks you are in starvation mode and shuts down the metabolism, thus you gain weight, mostly fat. that is common sense. I brought this up because it shows that study was originally flawed and can NOT be used for comparrison. a proper study would have been designed that was double or triple blinded study that had at least 2 grs, randomly assigned where one grp got say 1200 calories a day and one ate 2000 cal/day. 1200 cal/day is the lowest recommended calorie limit for dieting. the body needs that much just for basic metabolic needs and to avoid muscle wasting. I did NOT once state that having hypo T dz doesn't contribute to weight gain i was only referring to those stupid studies that were done and i still consider them Medical Malpractice and everyone who I know who works in metabolism and weight loss research would aggree! Also, am i arguing with you about your thyroid med??? no, i am not. I personally take armour at 4 grains and i prescribe armour in my practices. Nancie Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP -- Re: Losing Weight Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely speeds up my metabolism. ____________ _________ _________ __ F -- .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Or at the very least feel like hell and slowly lose bone density and develop a greater propensity for heart disease. Although I do have to say that going without thyroid hormone actually feels better than being on thyroid hormone and not getting enough for some reason. But both are not recommended for obvious reasons. ________________________________ From: <res075oh@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 10:09:58 PM Subject: Re:Losing Weight I wouldn't advise going off the meds. If your body doesn't produce thyroxine and you do not replace it you will go into myxedema coma and die. Luck, .. .. > > Posted by: " eileen_kurlan " eileen_kurlan > <mailto:eileen_kurlan?Subject=%20Re% 3ALosing% 20Weight> > eileen_kurlan <http://profiles. / eileen_kurlan> > > > Sun Mar 8, 2009 9:09 pm (PDT) > > > > I got married two years ago. Before my wedding i was in the gym and > losing weight. About a year ago i was diagnosed hypo and started > levothyroxine (not sure if that is spelled right). I tried going back > to the gym (i had gained some weight back after the wedding). I cannot > lose any weight. It's frustrating cause i'd rather go off the meds go > to the gym and lose the weight. > > Any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Are you trying to be a pain in the ass? Yes, you would initially lose some WATER weight, in the first few days, then the body shuts down into the starvation mode and you do not lose any weight. And after you go off this stupid diet- you will have a metabolism that is not functioning normally. So if you add in thyroid dz, you get a really sluggish metabolism that needs to be addressed. -- Re: Losing Weight Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely speeds up my metabolism. ____________ _________ _________ __ F -- .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 It doesn't seem that your body is very happy with what you are doing with all the exercise. Sometimes we have to listen to our own bodies, whether it fits our particular plan or not. We are who we are, and we don't always fit neatly into the textbooks. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> From: <kennio (DOT) com> Subject: Re: Losing Weight hypothyroidism Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 2:18 PM It's called Rhabdomyolysis (Rhabdomyolysis is the rapid breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue due to injury to muscle tissue.) and although this study says it's uncommon in hypothyroid. .. it's happening to me and to my friend. Probably because we exercise so much. Note that the conclusion to the study shows that it clears up when the subject is on thyroid hormone.   My T3 drops rapidly and I become hypo then my muscles turn to mush and my facial skin hangs. My friend is painfully under medicated for hypothyroidism (don't ask) and she often has high liver enzymes and high muscle breakdown enzymes (CK).  It is well known that hypothyroidism will interfere with muscle development and I personally believe it is the muscle breakdown it causes. http://www.springer link.com/ content/n1716411 55374316/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I don't think I like your tone. You said " Anyone who is given only 500 calories a day is going to gain weight,regardless of whether or not you have hypo T dz " . That is horse crap to put it bluntly. I will lose weight if I reduce my calories to 500 mainly fat and muscle. I think I know my body. You're not talking to a bunch of children here. I don't care what your title is. Ever watch " Survivor " ?? These people lose 30 pounds in less then 5 weeks with severely reduced calories. ________________________________ From: Nancie Barnett <deifspirit@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 11:27:32 PM Subject: Re: Losing Weight Are you trying to be a pain in the ass? Yes, you would initially lose some WATER weight, in the first few days, then the body shuts down into the starvation mode and you do not lose any weight. And after you go off this stupid diet- you will have a metabolism that is not functioning normally. So if you add in thyroid dz, you get a really sluggish metabolism that needs to be addressed. -- Re: Losing Weight Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely speeds up my metabolism. ____________ _________ _________ __ F -- .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have the Atkins book, and even have been to see Dr. Atkins himself at his facility in New York. His diet works - hands down! I lost 40 pounds in 4 months on it without being or feeling deprived for one minute. I ate as much as I wanted of the allowed food, protein, fat, green vegetables (except peas), butter, well, you get the idea. I felt good, I looked good and I personally feel it's the best. He also prescribed supplements that most people never heard of at that time. He was an extremely gifted, intelligent and brilliant cardiologist. If anyone is able to get to the Atkins Center which is in New York City, and they want to lose weight without going crazy with exercise, I would advise making an appointment. I'm sure you have never been evaluated the way you will be evaluated at that place. It's the most thorough I have ever seen or heard about. It's quite different from the 15 minute rat race most people are used to. Please understand, I went there a long time ago, about 1985, and some things might have changed, but you could call and talk to someone on the 'phone and find out the information. Make sure you have good insurance, because there is a lot of work done on that visit, tests, evaluations, consultations, etc.  P.S. I kept the weight off till after the nurses study and stopped the HRT that I was on at the time. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less >> move more. >> Nancie >> >> -- Re: Losing Weight >> >> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat >> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight, >> without the exercise. >> >> Roni > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I lost 100 pounds 25 years ago and it became obvious then that my body wanted to become fat again. My exercise has become a way of life. I've avoided the cycle of gross obesity that runs in my family. I see my poor brothers and sister and I can hardly recognize them because of these massive weight gains. I try to help but they just don't associate the weight with their undertreated thyroids. They prefer to be on an anti-depressants, calcium channel blockers and statins, etc. rather than to find a doctor that really understands that thyroid disease is more than treating TSH AND a TSH of 2.2 is NOT normal for many. ________________________________ From: Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> hypothyroidism Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:26:47 AM Subject: Re: Losing Weight I have the Atkins book, and even have been to see Dr. Atkins himself at his facility in New York. His diet works - hands down! I lost 40 pounds in 4 months on it without being or feeling deprived for one minute. I ate as much as I wanted of the allowed food, protein, fat, green vegetables (except peas), butter, well, you get the idea. I felt good, I looked good and I personally feel it's the best. He also prescribed supplements that most people never heard of at that time. He was an extremely gifted, intelligent and brilliant cardiologist. If anyone is able to get to the Atkins Center which is in New York City, and they want to lose weight without going crazy with exercise, I would advise making an appointment. I'm sure you have never been evaluated the way you will be evaluated at that place. It's the most thorough I have ever seen or heard about. It's quite different from the 15 minute rat race most people are used to. Please understand, I went there a long time ago, about 1985, and some things might have changed, but you could call and talk to someone on the 'phone and find out the information. Make sure you have good insurance, because there is a lot of work done on that visit, tests, evaluations, consultations, etc. P.S. I kept the weight off till after the nurses study and stopped the HRT that I was on at the time. Roni <>Just because something isn't seen doesn't mean it's not there<> >> As the NIH and CDC's just released report says: to lose weight, eat less >> move more. >> Nancie >> >> -- Re: Losing Weight >> >> Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat >> greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight, >> without the exercise. >> >> Roni > -- Steve - dudescholar4@ basicmail. net Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvoc ates.org/ quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford ------------ --------- --------- ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 paul- I guess the smiley did not make it thru, sorry about that..... It is not BS and I have every nutrition and obesity expert that states the same thing. You go on a very low calorie weight loss diet like a dangerous 500 cal a day which is not enough cal/day for your own basic metabolic needs on a daily basis and you are going to shut down your metabolism on the long term. You end up not dropping any fat weight and only losing water and muscle tissue which further compromises your already sluggish metabolism in the first place and what happens when you go off this dangerous diet? You gain all the weight back and more. This has been proven over and over again in people who have gone on this crazy diets. I am talking about people who go on these diets and not do any exercise when they are on these diets. Those people who are on survivor are burning off a ton of calories, by constant exercise. I am not talking about people who exercise on these diets I am talking about people who go on these dangerous diets and not exercise- because frankly who has the energy! BTW, the contestants on the survivor series were not on 500 cal a day diets- they were supplemented behind the scenes and they had a medical provider on set at all time. You have no idea how " reality " TV is produced, do you? NO you do not. -- Re: Losing Weight Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely speeds up my metabolism. ____________ _________ _________ __ F -- .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 steve- That study was done in 1976 and I wonder why it hasn't been replicated since then, manly because I bet all those patients regained their " weight loss " and more. Since there is NO reports from their so called scientific study that shows what happened after the study was over, you really can't intellectually believe their findings overall. A intellectual honest study would have put in a follow up section to state whether or not the study subjects kept their weight loss or gained it all back. , which they did not. Now days that study would not even get published. you can not achieve long term weight loss on those diets because you lose critical muscle tissue which is a major factor in driving your metabolism. Those diets are dangerous diets to be on and they cause many more problems than they benefit. They are not replicated now days, because the medical community has learned how dangerous they are. I have not seen one patient that went on one of those 500 cal/day disasters who loss any long term weight and all they did achieve was destroying their metabolic function. Plus, they actually gained weight on those diets. i can't believe that you would cite a study that is from the 70's that has references from the 50 and 60's. Medicine and nutrition knowledge has evolved since then. Nancie -- Re: Losing Weight > > > > Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when > you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with > gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and > running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. > > > > If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in > less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it > upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely > speeds up my metabolism. -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 We will have to agree to disagree. -- Re: Losing Weight > > Come on now... this is a hypothyroid forum. Am I actually hearing that when > you all got diagnosed as hypothyroid you didn't suddenly have a problem with > gaining weight? I was lifting hundreds of pounds with weightlifting and > running 5 miles 5 times a week and started to get fat! No diet change. > > If I lower my levoxyl by 12.5 mcg for a month I will be 10 pound heavier in > less than 60 days. In fact if I wanted to lose 10 pounds I would adjust it > upward and it would fall off... I would be a bit jittery but it definitely > speeds up my metabolism. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > F > -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 steve- please, there are not studies, because it is considered MEDICAL MALPRACTICE to devise a study that limits a person to 500 calories a day. You are a smart guy and I can't believe that you can't see that it would be dangerous to specifically design a dangerous diet study like that. That is why there are no studies, other than that ancient one that you dragged up from 1976 which used references from the 50's and 60's. Lol -------Original Message------- From: Steve > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 So you are saying that the NIH and the CDC are lying??? Wow. that says a TON about you. -- Re: Losing Weight > > Again, it's the moderate lowering of caloric intake, and the somewhat > greater lowering of the carbohydrate intake that will help lower weight, > without the exercise. > > Roni -- Steve - dudescholar4@... Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html " If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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