Re: Only 18 and trying too hard to get the treatment I need ASAP.

[Guest guest]

yes they are important and so is my e2! my e2 is 120,

coming in range within the UK ranges 25-156. The AACE

research in the USA have said, that most of their

patients do not function unless they are between

20-40, and i will get measured what u asked for, but

it is still important and i av the symptons of high e2

too, shrinkage of testicles, no erections, no penis

development, small orgasms (As e2 causes the copers

gland and pitutary to shrink)....part of my prbo is

that my e2 has stunted my sexual growth,,

--- chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> You don't have an E2 level of over 120 on the US

> range.....no where

> near that!!!

>

> It is a totally different reference range and your

> 120pmol/l E2 level

> equals 32.6 pg on the US range. That could be too

> high for you but

> it is not sky rocket high, like you have thought.

>

> Your SHBG level/free testosterone, genetics and

> other doctor led

> investigations are more important.

>

>

>

>

> > > > Here are my results:

> > > >

> > > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

>

> > > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > > >

> > > > These were my endocrine results. The UK

> doctors

> > > keep

> > > > saying I am normal depsite my problems

> standing

> > > out

> > > > so

> > > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > > >

> > > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > > normal

> > > > blood test.

> > > >

> > > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > > Supplementary Result

> > > >

> > > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > > failed.

> > > > I have still never had an erection. I know my

> E2

> > > is

> > > > high as the American ranges say that the E2

> for

> > > men

> > > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > > I

> > > > am

> > > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2.

> And i

> > > > will find the source with my next doctor, has

> he

> > > > seems

> > > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > > knows

> > > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > > and

> > > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > > and

> > > > the other with my friend. to see the response.

> i

> > > > know

> > > > i need hgh injections and on top need to

> supress

> > > my

> > > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > > rise,,and

> > > > on top my testicles and penis should develop

> as

> > > they

> > > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > > i

> > > > am

> > > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it

> DON,

> > > > such

> > > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > > hope

> > > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

yea i got the RX info for that, and by the way i

forgot to let you know I also have:

-a common cough for some years

-i spit saliva everyday, and i av a bin next to on my

pc where spit into a lot

-i have a leaky nose 24/7 and i LITERALLY use 2-3

TISSUES per day on wiping my nose, for well over a

year now, and i cough, and pour a lot of saliva

any ideas????

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> When you try Tam. make sure when you stop it you

> come off it slow lowering the dose by the week then

> you need to be off it about 4 to 6 weeks to test E2

> you can't get a good test if the med is still in

> your body.

>

> Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> wrote: thnx,

>

> i meant to say nuke the E2 source, so that my e2

> comes

> in the 20-40 range,,,the american way,,,,,not 120,

> the

> UK way,,

>

> if tamofixen does not work,,,then i will need

> arimidex

> to try,,but my E2 is high according to the USA

> updated

> ranges, and it does play a role,,,thnx again, x

>

> --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> > All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man

> > boobs and in some men will make your LH go higher

> > making more testosterone. This is a link from a

> > Body Building site pay this no mind it is full of

> > the info you need about this. For me Tamofixen did

> > not move my E2.

> >

> >

>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2

> > I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2

> > never heard of this you need it to live you can't

> > just kill it.

> >

> > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > wrote:

> > are you saying that tamofixen (e2

> > suppresing pill)

> > will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but

> i

> > am

> > not relying this on life, this is only during the

> > time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked

> > and

> > the rest of the problems solved.

> >

> > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > > I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him

> an

> > > Email telling him your problems and I am sure he

> > can

> > > hook you up with a Dr.

> > >

> > > I see your E2 is on the high side but not all

> that

> > > bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> > > this is to high and I get ED that the pill will

> > not

> > > help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> > > they do dam good.

> > >

> > > I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> > > look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> > > ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me

> on

> > > Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> > > Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my

> units

> > > over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> > > ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how

> to

> > > read it. It can also show if your have a

> pituitary

> > > problem.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208

> > > Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a

> great

> > > read.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > > Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

> > >

> > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > > wrote:

> > > Here are my results:

> > >

> > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > >

> > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > >

> > > These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors

> > keep

> > > saying I am normal depsite my problems standing

> > out

> > > so

> > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > >

> > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > normal

> > > blood test.

> > >

> > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > Supplementary Result

> > >

> > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > failed.

> > > I have still never had an erection. I know my E2

> > is

> > > high as the American ranges say that the E2 for

> > men

> > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > I

> > > am

> > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And

> i

> > > will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> > > seems

> > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > knows

> > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > and

> > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > and

> > > the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> > > know

> > > i need hgh injections and on top need to supress

> > my

> > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > rise,,and

> > > on top my testicles and penis should develop as

> > they

> > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > i

> > > am

> > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> > > such

> > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > hope

> > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

> > > help one another...thnx everyone xx

> > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know

> > how

> > > > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it

> > made

> > > me

> > > > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > > > driving up my E2. If he is this high just

> > getting

> > > > this down with Arimidex will make him feel

> > better

> > > > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get

> > his

> > > > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried

> to

> > > get

> > > > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > > > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I

> feel

> > > > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> > > Testosterone

> > > > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > > > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> > > link

> > > > is about older men but the problem is the

> same.

> > I

> > > > tried all the pills and could not get any wood

> > my

> > > ED

> > > > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did

> not

> > > > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life

> is

> > > > fine.

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

my e2 is high according to the usa ranges and the AACE

american ranges, i checked with DON, with the ranges,

using the same units. and also,,,i asked why is my GH

low???????? cos i hate my body, i am 4 inches off

ratio on my trunk,,,is it linked with the pitutary or

wat? why is so low,,,

thnx,,x

--- chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> You don't have an E2 level of over 120 on the US

> range.....no where

> near that!!!

>

> It is a totally different reference range and your

> 120pmol/l E2 level

> equals 32.6 pg on the US range. That could be too

> high for you but

> it is not sky rocket high, like you have thought.

>

> Your SHBG level/free testosterone, genetics and

> other doctor led

> investigations are more important.

>

>

>

>

> > > > Here are my results:

> > > >

> > > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

>

> > > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > > >

> > > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > > >

> > > > These were my endocrine results. The UK

> doctors

> > > keep

> > > > saying I am normal depsite my problems

> standing

> > > out

> > > > so

> > > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > > >

> > > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > > normal

> > > > blood test.

> > > >

> > > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > > Supplementary Result

> > > >

> > > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > > failed.

> > > > I have still never had an erection. I know my

> E2

> > > is

> > > > high as the American ranges say that the E2

> for

> > > men

> > > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > > I

> > > > am

> > > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2.

> And i

> > > > will find the source with my next doctor, has

> he

> > > > seems

> > > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > > knows

> > > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > > and

> > > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > > and

> > > > the other with my friend. to see the response.

> i

> > > > know

> > > > i need hgh injections and on top need to

> supress

> > > my

> > > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > > rise,,and

> > > > on top my testicles and penis should develop

> as

> > > they

> > > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > > i

> > > > am

> > > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it

> DON,

> > > > such

> > > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > > hope

> > > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

>

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Were talking a different issue, were talking a young man stuck in between

stage 3 and 4 puberty. I had suggested reduceing E2 as it was a primary

anti-development agent in the study I was in, and his is excessive. His twin

sister also has issues but af far as the is concerned her long leggs look

good, I would love to have the full panel and genotype on both of them. He

does have enough E2 in his system to inhibit the operation of his testes.

I know not my job anymore but I still cant help but to be fascinated with

the subject, since I im also a patient. My HGH levels happen to be within

12% low, on booster.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:34 PM

Subject: RE: Only 18 and trying too hard to get the treatment

I need ASAP.

All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man boobs and in some men will

make your LH go higher making more testosterone. This is a link from a Body

Building site pay this no mind it is full of the info you need about this.

For me Tamofixen did not move my E2.

HYPERLINK

" http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2 " http://www.t--nati

on.com/-findArticle.-do?article=-150estro2

I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2 never heard of this you need

it to live you can't just kill it.

Manterno Salerno <HYPERLINK

" mailto:brownsaucylicious%40.co.uk " brownsaucylicious@-.co.-uk>

wrote:

are you saying that tamofixen (e2 suppresing pill)

will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but i am

not relying this on life, this is only during the

time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked and

the rest of the problems solved.

--- philip georgian <HYPERLINK

" mailto:pmgamer18%40 " pmgamer18 (DOT) -com> wrote:

> I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him an

> Email telling him your problems and I am sure he can

> hook you up with a Dr.

>

> I see your E2 is on the high side but not all that

> bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> this is to high and I get ED that the pill will not

> help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> they do dam good.

>

> I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me on

> Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my units

> over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how to

> read it. It can also show if your have a pituitary

> problem.

>

>

HYPERLINK

" http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208 " http://forums.-realth

yroidhelp.-com/viewtopic.-php?t=208

> Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a great

> read.

>

>

HYPERLINK

" http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/ " http://www.stopthet-

hyroidmadness.-com/adrenal--info/faq/

> Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

>

> Manterno Salerno <HYPERLINK

" mailto:brownsaucylicious%40.co.uk " brownsaucylicious@-.co.-uk>

> wrote:

> Here are my results:

>

> (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

>

> (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

>

> These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors keep

> saying I am normal depsite my problems standing out

> so

> clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

>

> My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a normal

> blood test.

>

> Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> Supplementary Result

>

> I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> failed.

> I have still never had an erection. I know my E2 is

> high as the American ranges say that the E2 for men

> should be between 13-50 and the AACE says, 25-40. I

> am

> 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have ordered

> Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And i

> will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> seems

> gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who knows

> what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to try.

> and

> i am going to use one this week, with a urologist,

> and

> the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> know

> i need hgh injections and on top need to supress my

> e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t rise,,and

> on top my testicles and penis should develop as they

> should have done so, and get my erections coming. i

> am

> also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> such

> a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i hope

> there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite and

> help one another...thnx everyone xx

> --- philip georgian <HYPERLINK

" mailto:pmgamer18%40 " pmgamer18 (DOT) -com> wrote:

>

> > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know how

> > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it made

> me

> > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > driving up my E2. If he is this high just getting

> > this down with Arimidex will make him feel better

> > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get his

> > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried to

> get

> > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I feel

> > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> Testosterone

> > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> link

> > is about older men but the problem is the same. I

> > tried all the pills and could not get any wood my

> ED

> > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did not

> > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life is

> > fine.

> >

> >

>

HYPERLINK

" http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 " http://jcem.-endojo

urnals.-org/cgi/content/-full/89/3/-1174

> >

> > Also there is a web site run by Nick O'Hara

> > here is a link to his site he can help find him a

> > Dr.

> > HYPERLINK " http://www.androids.org.uk/ " http://www.androids-.org.uk/

> >

> > Don <HYPERLINK " mailto:donaldb%40boaterspc.com " donaldbboaterspc (DOT) -com>

wrote:

> > Oh I have to chime in on this one, as ive been

> > working with him for some

> > time. This kid has had some major shit getting

> > treatment, his arms are 4”

> > wider than his and he is asominac , no night wood,

> > severely underdeveloped

> > testes that I would have guessed at stage 2. He

> got

> > told too long “its in

> > his head”. Since mid pubertal delay was my

> > specialty, I have been giving him

> > some help from my education, my professors, Dr

> > Crissler, and even this

> > group. The kid has an E2 pump basically somewhere

> > antagonizing his T,

> > suppressing development. HE also had possible

> > vascular insult, he had

> > hernias bilateral when a baby and undecended

> > testicles. 2 Muse 1000s cant

> > get him hard. I’m hoping it was misapplication but

> > he has 2 caverjects to

> > try, after that I think he REALLY needs a penal

> > ultrasound with Doppler to

> > figure why the “”last resort” ED meds are not

> > working.. MRI of the

> > pituitary, adrenals, and thyroid.

> >

> > ly, I think his physical fitness is from sure

> > will. I wont go into it

> > but he exercises more than half of us combined..

> >

> > One issue im severely concerned about, the patient

> > has a twin sister, and we

> > have yet to receive cross genetic testing. Nor has

> > ultrasound or CT been

> > done of our friend to check for extra parts. He

> had

> > severe gyno at 13. I

> > frankly wouldn’t mind ordering a fully body low

> > resolution MRI.

> >

> > In my internship at a cross project of 2 major

> > pharmaceutical companies, I

> > helped in the experimental endocronologic

> treatment

> > in over 1500 young men

> > and women, and I was one of them… They didn’t have

> > the ancers then, we still

> > don’t. I never “got to know” them like out friend

> > here, I really hope he can

> > achieve his minimum goals at least, from the

> bottom

> > of my heart.

> >

> > 6 years ago I would have had the resources of a

> > billion dollar lab to help

> > our new member out, yet that is the past.

> >

> > -Don

> > Organic chemistry major with specialization of

> > adolescent endourologic

> > proteins in humans, UTA Arlington

> >

> > BTW, class one of endo 101, Professor said:

> > What im going to teach you is made up from

> primitive

> > observation, and

> > sometimes whole cloth. This is what we THINK we

> know

> > what these hormones do.

> > Never assume anything. We know nothing yet.

> >

> > It sucks no having a professor to countersign my

> > RXs. Half a dam semester &

> > grad, the tumor I had just couldn’t wait..

> >

> > One thing being in this group has taught me. My

> 101

> > teacher was spot on.

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: HYPERLINK

" mailto: %40 " @-groups.-com

> > [mailto:HYPERLINK

" mailto: %40 " @-groups.-com]

>

=== message truncated ===

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

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-s./-forgood/environm-ent.html

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you

see. "

Phil

------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I am asking you for a big favour that will help me not

get confused whilst I meet my doctor, and make sure I

am not denied any treatment under the flawed UK ranges

i.e. the Free Androgen Index (i have met 2 endo's who

have denied me any treatment, except one giving me t

boost, with no scans nothing)! :

1/Cld u translate my hormone levels to the american

units?

2/Cld u give me the horomone levels of where I should

be according to the USA ranges for each hormone?

3/Could you give me the USA ranges?

-For the 3 points, cld u include the HGH too please?

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> When you try Tam. make sure when you stop it you

> come off it slow lowering the dose by the week then

> you need to be off it about 4 to 6 weeks to test E2

> you can't get a good test if the med is still in

> your body.

>

> Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> wrote: thnx,

>

> i meant to say nuke the E2 source, so that my e2

> comes

> in the 20-40 range,,,the american way,,,,,not 120,

> the

> UK way,,

>

> if tamofixen does not work,,,then i will need

> arimidex

> to try,,but my E2 is high according to the USA

> updated

> ranges, and it does play a role,,,thnx again, x

>

> --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> > All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man

> > boobs and in some men will make your LH go higher

> > making more testosterone. This is a link from a

> > Body Building site pay this no mind it is full of

> > the info you need about this. For me Tamofixen did

> > not move my E2.

> >

> >

>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2

> > I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2

> > never heard of this you need it to live you can't

> > just kill it.

> >

> > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > wrote:

> > are you saying that tamofixen (e2

> > suppresing pill)

> > will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but

> i

> > am

> > not relying this on life, this is only during the

> > time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked

> > and

> > the rest of the problems solved.

> >

> > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > > I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him

> an

> > > Email telling him your problems and I am sure he

> > can

> > > hook you up with a Dr.

> > >

> > > I see your E2 is on the high side but not all

> that

> > > bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> > > this is to high and I get ED that the pill will

> > not

> > > help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> > > they do dam good.

> > >

> > > I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> > > look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> > > ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me

> on

> > > Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> > > Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my

> units

> > > over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> > > ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how

> to

> > > read it. It can also show if your have a

> pituitary

> > > problem.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208

> > > Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a

> great

> > > read.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > > Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

> > >

> > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > > wrote:

> > > Here are my results:

> > >

> > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > >

> > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > >

> > > These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors

> > keep

> > > saying I am normal depsite my problems standing

> > out

> > > so

> > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > >

> > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > normal

> > > blood test.

> > >

> > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > Supplementary Result

> > >

> > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > failed.

> > > I have still never had an erection. I know my E2

> > is

> > > high as the American ranges say that the E2 for

> > men

> > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > I

> > > am

> > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And

> i

> > > will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> > > seems

> > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > knows

> > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > and

> > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > and

> > > the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> > > know

> > > i need hgh injections and on top need to supress

> > my

> > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > rise,,and

> > > on top my testicles and penis should develop as

> > they

> > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > i

> > > am

> > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> > > such

> > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > hope

> > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

> > > help one another...thnx everyone xx

> > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know

> > how

> > > > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it

> > made

> > > me

> > > > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > > > driving up my E2. If he is this high just

> > getting

> > > > this down with Arimidex will make him feel

> > better

> > > > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get

> > his

> > > > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried

> to

> > > get

> > > > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > > > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I

> feel

> > > > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> > > Testosterone

> > > > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > > > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> > > link

> > > > is about older men but the problem is the

> same.

> > I

> > > > tried all the pills and could not get any wood

> > my

> > > ED

> > > > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did

> not

> > > > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life

> is

> > > > fine.

>

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

[Guest guest]

Lets not forget guys, this is a guy stuck half way though puberty. The

experience of the board is for adult men TRT. We have some excellent

resources, but the dynamics are very different when your trying to get a guy

to finish growing. I got to see over a thousand cases in my education @ UTA

with a project funded jointly with a company starting with a P and another

with the initials AZ. This was my focus because it was my own self intrest.

Please think about this before we apply adult male standards to his problem,

they don’t work. The work & reports is currently owned by AZ and im trying

to get some released.

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9:50 PM

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9:50 PM

[Guest guest]

By the way, I am 19 now, and I am a teen growing into

an adult, so my case is different.

On top, I cannot stop at all from taking the Tam. as

my E2 level would just rise again. Somewhere in my

body, something is pumping out extra E2.

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> When you try Tam. make sure when you stop it you

> come off it slow lowering the dose by the week then

> you need to be off it about 4 to 6 weeks to test E2

> you can't get a good test if the med is still in

> your body.

>

> Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> wrote: thnx,

>

> i meant to say nuke the E2 source, so that my e2

> comes

> in the 20-40 range,,,the american way,,,,,not 120,

> the

> UK way,,

>

> if tamofixen does not work,,,then i will need

> arimidex

> to try,,but my E2 is high according to the USA

> updated

> ranges, and it does play a role,,,thnx again, x

>

> --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> > All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man

> > boobs and in some men will make your LH go higher

> > making more testosterone. This is a link from a

> > Body Building site pay this no mind it is full of

> > the info you need about this. For me Tamofixen did

> > not move my E2.

> >

> >

>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2

> > I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2

> > never heard of this you need it to live you can't

> > just kill it.

> >

> > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > wrote:

> > are you saying that tamofixen (e2

> > suppresing pill)

> > will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but

> i

> > am

> > not relying this on life, this is only during the

> > time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked

> > and

> > the rest of the problems solved.

> >

> > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > > I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him

> an

> > > Email telling him your problems and I am sure he

> > can

> > > hook you up with a Dr.

> > >

> > > I see your E2 is on the high side but not all

> that

> > > bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> > > this is to high and I get ED that the pill will

> > not

> > > help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> > > they do dam good.

> > >

> > > I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> > > look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> > > ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me

> on

> > > Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> > > Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my

> units

> > > over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> > > ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how

> to

> > > read it. It can also show if your have a

> pituitary

> > > problem.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208

> > > Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a

> great

> > > read.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > > Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

> > >

> > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > > wrote:

> > > Here are my results:

> > >

> > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > >

> > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > >

> > > These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors

> > keep

> > > saying I am normal depsite my problems standing

> > out

> > > so

> > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > >

> > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > normal

> > > blood test.

> > >

> > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > Supplementary Result

> > >

> > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > failed.

> > > I have still never had an erection. I know my E2

> > is

> > > high as the American ranges say that the E2 for

> > men

> > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > I

> > > am

> > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And

> i

> > > will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> > > seems

> > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > knows

> > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > and

> > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > and

> > > the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> > > know

> > > i need hgh injections and on top need to supress

> > my

> > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > rise,,and

> > > on top my testicles and penis should develop as

> > they

> > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > i

> > > am

> > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> > > such

> > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > hope

> > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

> > > help one another...thnx everyone xx

> > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know

> > how

> > > > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it

> > made

> > > me

> > > > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > > > driving up my E2. If he is this high just

> > getting

> > > > this down with Arimidex will make him feel

> > better

> > > > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get

> > his

> > > > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried

> to

> > > get

> > > > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > > > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I

> feel

> > > > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> > > Testosterone

> > > > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > > > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> > > link

> > > > is about older men but the problem is the

> same.

> > I

> > > > tried all the pills and could not get any wood

> > my

> > > ED

> > > > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did

> not

> > > > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life

> is

> > > > fine.

>

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

[Guest guest]

I think the key for you is going to be;

An Insulin Tolerance Test and any other dynamic tests that your

endocrinologists thinks are relevant given your clinical presentation

and genetic tests as well as an SHBG test and an evaluation of free

testosterone.

Some of the information you have at the moment is incorrect.

First of all your testosterone level at this point given you were not

on treatment absolutely does not offer a diagnosis of hypogondism.

Anyone saying you have hypogondism be it on the internet or anywhere

else on the basis of the limited information available is totally

wrong.

16.6nmol/l is a reasonable level of testosterone and not hypogondal.

The only way this can represent a problem is if SHBG is very high or

estradiol very high or in cases where a genetic problem exist (which

has to be diagnosed not guessed at).

Your estradiol is a little elevated and if in the US I could see that

being treated, but it is not overtly high at all and I would be

amazed if you can get that treated in the UK. I just do not think an

endocrinologist in the NHS is going to treat that level of estradiol,

maybe, at least not unless a genetic cause for treatment is

established or unless perhpas you have very significnat gynecomastia.

Certainly I doubt that estradiol is you main issue, it sounds as

though the problems you have are more significnat in origin than

slightly elevated estradiol.

Do you have significant gynecomastia?

Also who has mentioned treating you with Tamoxifen?

Summary:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am 18 years old///For my body, masculinity

> > and

> > > > my

> > > > > > sexual organs, I

> > > > > > have had a delay in development. And my

> > hormones

> > > > are

> > > > > > not normal for

> > > > > > an 18-year-old. I have had a constitutional

> > > > > > delay///My growth ratio

> > > > > > is very off, my trunk

> > (mid-section/body/spine)

> > > > is 4

> > > > > > inches short.

> > > > > > Making my arms and legs as long as a person

> > who

> > > > is

> > > > > > 6ft2, whilst I am

> > > > > > only 5ft10. My spread is 4 inches longer

> > than my

> > > > > > height///I lack

> > > > > > primary sexual development and have not had

> > any

> > > > > > growth since 11 years

> > > > > > of age///I have very little sexual function

> > and

> > > > I

> > > > > > have not developed

> > > > > > secondary sexual characteristics///My

> > testicles

> > > > are

> > > > > > small and so is

> > > > > > my penis, and I have never had an erection

> > in my

> > > > > > life///I have had

> > > > > > hormone tests and I have excess E2 levels by

> > a

> > > > > > factor of 2 and

> > > > > > marginal testosterone levels///I was able to

> > do

> > > > a

> > > > > > fertility test, and

> > > > > > it resulted in a 2% viable level (2% of

> > sperms

> > > > only

> > > > > > work), my

> > > > > > spermogensis is marginal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Problem:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The UK ranges are incorrect according to the

> > USA

> > > > > > ranges. One medical

> > > > > > organization known as AACE has proven to

> > have

> > > > the

> > > > > > most accurate

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

> ___________________________________________________________

> Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

>

[Guest guest]

Well I hope you can get this checked out but I know of no extra organ that can

do this unless it's active.

Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: i am a twin,

with a sister, i may have some abnormal

extra organ or disordered glands, that causes my high

e2,

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man

> boobs and in some men will make your LH go higher

> making more testosterone. This is a link from a

> Body Building site pay this no mind it is full of

> the info you need about this. For me Tamofixen did

> not move my E2.

>

>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2

> I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2

> never heard of this you need it to live you can't

> just kill it.

>

> Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> wrote:

> are you saying that tamofixen (e2

> suppresing pill)

> will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but i

> am

> not relying this on life, this is only during the

> time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked

> and

> the rest of the problems solved.

>

> --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> > I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him an

> > Email telling him your problems and I am sure he

> can

> > hook you up with a Dr.

> >

> > I see your E2 is on the high side but not all that

> > bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> > this is to high and I get ED that the pill will

> not

> > help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> > they do dam good.

> >

> > I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> > look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> > ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me on

> > Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> > Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my units

> > over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> > ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how to

> > read it. It can also show if your have a pituitary

> > problem.

> >

> >

>

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208

> > Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a great

> > read.

> >

> >

>

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

> >

> > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > wrote:

> > Here are my results:

> >

> > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> >

> > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> >

> > These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors

> keep

> > saying I am normal depsite my problems standing

> out

> > so

> > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> >

> > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> normal

> > blood test.

> >

> > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > Supplementary Result

> >

> > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > failed.

> > I have still never had an erection. I know my E2

> is

> > high as the American ranges say that the E2 for

> men

> > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says, 25-40.

> I

> > am

> > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have ordered

> > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And i

> > will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> > seems

> > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> knows

> > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to try.

> > and

> > i am going to use one this week, with a urologist,

> > and

> > the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> > know

> > i need hgh injections and on top need to supress

> my

> > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> rise,,and

> > on top my testicles and penis should develop as

> they

> > should have done so, and get my erections coming.

> i

> > am

> > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> > such

> > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> hope

> > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite and

> > help one another...thnx everyone xx

> > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know

> how

> > > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it

> made

> > me

> > > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > > driving up my E2. If he is this high just

> getting

> > > this down with Arimidex will make him feel

> better

> > > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get

> his

> > > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried to

> > get

> > > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I feel

> > > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> > Testosterone

> > > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> > link

> > > is about older men but the problem is the same.

> I

> > > tried all the pills and could not get any wood

> my

> > ED

> > > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did not

> > > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life is

> > > fine.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174

> > >

> > > Also there is a web site run by Nick O'Hara

>

> > > here is a link to his site he can help find him

> a

> > > Dr.

> > > http://www.androids.org.uk/

> > >

> > > Don <donaldb@...> wrote:

> > > Oh I have to chime in on this one, as ive been

> > > working with him for some

> > > time. This kid has had some major shit getting

> > > treatment, his arms are 4”

> > > wider than his and he is asominac , no night

> wood,

> > > severely underdeveloped

> > > testes that I would have guessed at stage 2. He

> > got

> > > told too long “its in

> > > his head”. Since mid pubertal delay was my

> > > specialty, I have been giving him

> > > some help from my education, my professors, Dr

> > > Crissler, and even this

> > > group. The kid has an E2 pump basically

> somewhere

> > > antagonizing his T,

> > > suppressing development. HE also had possible

> > > vascular insult, he had

> > > hernias bilateral when a baby and undecended

> > > testicles. 2 Muse 1000s cant

> > > get him hard. I’m hoping it was misapplication

> but

> > > he has 2 caverjects to

> > > try, after that I think he REALLY needs a penal

> > > ultrasound with Doppler to

> > > figure why the “”last resort” ED meds are not

> > > working.. MRI of the

> > > pituitary, adrenals, and thyroid.

> > >

> > > ly, I think his physical fitness is from

> sure

> > > will. I wont go into it

>

=== message truncated ===

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Phil

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

I do not have hypogondism. And no one has told me I

have hypogondism. But one fact is my E2 is higher than

normal and I have the problems which are also created

by E2 such as:

-Shrinkage of testicles

-No penile development

-Little orgasm (As E2 causes the coper's gland and the

prostate to deacrease in size...)

-2% functional sperms

These are results of high E2. On top, I am on the high

end, so I will make sure I get my E2 down to 20-40. Be

it myself or with the NHS. I am not going to sit

around like a duck anymore. I have ordered my own TE2

suppressors.

I am getting the tests done you mentioned and I have

got my genes checked too, from 2 different hospitals,

and I have sent my own letter to the next doctor I

found, my GP agrees on my problems and my findings,

and I am sure this doctor I have founded could be the

one. If my E2 will not be treated by him, I can always

do it myself, and measure my blood levels to maintain

it. And to max out my growth, I should be on the

higher end of TESTOSTERONE level, on top the odd thing

is my LH is very high, yet I still have 2% functional

sperms. One thing for sure, is that I am HIGH on the

USA scal and out of the range, so I will get to the

AACE standards of where my E2 should be.

" it sounds as though the problems you have are more

significnat in origin " what do you mean?

My research, DON, and my GP agree on my problem. Also

I am very feminie in many ways, i.e.

-I love children more than a woman, to another level.

-I want to father, so bad,

-I get an automatic nerve impulse reaction when I find

any thing cute. My mouth starts to chew itself.

-I am very emotional.

-I have hips, slightly feminine

-When I gain weight, I gain it on my face, abdominal

reigion and " slighlty " on my breasts. (My sisters have

mentioned I got a bit of man boobs coming, just a bit.

And they joke calling me a tranny i.e. as in I am now

a lady.) I hope this helps.

--- chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> I think the key for you is going to be;

>

>

> An Insulin Tolerance Test and any other dynamic

> tests that your

> endocrinologists thinks are relevant given your

> clinical presentation

> and genetic tests as well as an SHBG test and an

> evaluation of free

> testosterone.

>

> Some of the information you have at the moment is

> incorrect.

>

>

> First of all your testosterone level at this point

> given you were not

> on treatment absolutely does not offer a diagnosis

> of hypogondism.

>

> Anyone saying you have hypogondism be it on the

> internet or anywhere

> else on the basis of the limited information

> available is totally

> wrong.

>

> 16.6nmol/l is a reasonable level of testosterone and

> not hypogondal.

>

> The only way this can represent a problem is if SHBG

> is very high or

> estradiol very high or in cases where a genetic

> problem exist (which

> has to be diagnosed not guessed at).

>

> Your estradiol is a little elevated and if in the US

> I could see that

> being treated, but it is not overtly high at all and

> I would be

> amazed if you can get that treated in the UK. I

> just do not think an

> endocrinologist in the NHS is going to treat that

> level of estradiol,

> maybe, at least not unless a genetic cause for

> treatment is

> established or unless perhpas you have very

> significnat gynecomastia.

>

> Certainly I doubt that estradiol is you main issue,

> it sounds as

> though the problems you have are more significnat in

> origin than

> slightly elevated estradiol.

>

> Do you have significant gynecomastia?

>

> Also who has mentioned treating you with Tamoxifen?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Salerno,

You are missing something VERY important that I am telling you as a

fact.

Your E2 level is NOT 120 and way over the US range of 20-40, it just

isn't!!!!

Your E2 was meanured in a differing way in the UK.

Your E2 was measured in picomoles and the US range is measured in

picogrames.

Your E2 level whern converted to the US range is NOT over the top of

the range!!

Your E2 level is 32.6 on the US range which is 20-40.

So your E2 level might be a little elevated, but it is unequivically

NOT likely to be the cause of your issues.

And you should 100% NOT be looking at throwing tamoxifen at the

problem on your own as you can cause yourself a LOT of serious

problems doing that.

You NEED help ascertaining the cause of your issue with professional

medical help in the UK.

It is possible that an Androgen issue or a growth hormone issue or

another endocrine illness exists but no one on this board has anyway

of knowing in your case what the situation is and must point you to

the correct help with your doctors.

If you were an adult and you had a case of hypogondism that was

diagnosed or possible to see via your tests we could try and help,

but for anyone to try and offer help given your amibuous

situation....that could lead to more problems for you.

A difficult/ambiguous situation that may invlove genetics and dynamic

endocrine testing is for treating professional medical specialists.

We might be able to help once a situation has been

ascertained/further eluciadated, but at this time I don't see how

anyone can help you further. Trust me though on that E2 issue, you

do NOT have E2 of 120 as in way above a 20-40 range as the units are

utterly different and you actually have around 32 in US E2 terms.

> > > > > Here are my results:

> > > > >

> > > > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> >

> > > > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > > > >

> > > > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > > > >

> > > > > These were my endocrine results. The UK

> > doctors

> > > > keep

> > > > > saying I am normal depsite my problems

> > standing

> > > > out

> > > > > so

> > > > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > > > >

> > > > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > > > normal

> > > > > blood test.

> > > > >

> > > > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > > > Supplementary Result

> > > > >

> > > > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > > > failed.

> > > > > I have still never had an erection. I know my

> > E2

> > > > is

> > > > > high as the American ranges say that the E2

> > for

> > > > men

> > > > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> > 25-40.

> > > > I

> > > > > am

> > > > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> > ordered

> > > > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2.

> > And i

> > > > > will find the source with my next doctor, has

> > he

> > > > > seems

> > > > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > > > knows

> > > > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> > try.

> > > > > and

> > > > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> > urologist,

> > > > > and

> > > > > the other with my friend. to see the response.

> > i

> > > > > know

> > > > > i need hgh injections and on top need to

> > supress

> > > > my

> > > > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > > > rise,,and

> > > > > on top my testicles and penis should develop

> > as

> > > > they

> > > > > should have done so, and get my erections

> > coming.

> > > > i

> > > > > am

> > > > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it

> > DON,

> > > > > such

> > > > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > > > hope

> > > > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> > and

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

>

> ___________________________________________________________

> Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the

answer. Try it

> now.

> http://uk.answers./

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:26:02 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:

>I have no learning difficulties, but I can put on

>muscle if I train a bit, but not how could have done.

>

>I am infact very bright, and intelligent. So I am not

>sure if it is Klinefilter's syndrome.

They are finding these days that Klinefleters has a wide range of

expressions from the classic syndrome in the texts to far milder

cases that go unnoticed without profound effects. There is now even

recognized something called Klinefleter mosaic where it turns out that

some cells and organs exhibit the genetic defect while others do not.

But I see now that your test results are all looking very normal with

the POSSIBLE exception of growth hormone. It seems you don't have high

E2 or low T. The issue may be a rarer genetic condition involving

receptor sites or some unrelated condition. But the long arms to body

height is a classic diagnostic for Klinefelters.

>

>--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

>> Hi brownsauchylicious and welcome we have a few men

>> like you it's called Klinefelters Syndrome.

>>

>> Here is a link to support that should help you

>> more.

>> http://www.xxytalk.com/fusionbb/portal/index.php

>>

>> When you said " I need: " is the Professor Mehul

>> Tulsdas Dattani. Getting you what your need.

>>

>>

>> brownsaucylicious <brownsaucylicious@...>

>> wrote: Summary:

>>

>> I am 18 years old///For my body, masculinity and my

>> sexual organs, I

>> have had a delay in development. And my hormones are

>> not normal for

>> an 18-year-old. I have had a constitutional

>> delay///My growth ratio

>> is very off, my trunk (mid-section/body/spine) is 4

>> inches short.

>> Making my arms and legs as long as a person who is

>> 6ft2, whilst I am

>> only 5ft10. My spread is 4 inches longer than my

>> height///I lack

>> primary sexual development and have not had any

>> growth since 11 years

>> of age///I have very little sexual function and I

>> have not developed

>> secondary sexual characteristics///My testicles are

>> small and so is

>> my penis, and I have never had an erection in my

>> life///I have had

>> hormone tests and I have excess E2 levels by a

>> factor of 2 and

>> marginal testosterone levels///I was able to do a

>> fertility test, and

>> it resulted in a 2% viable level (2% of sperms only

>> work), my

>> spermogensis is marginal.

>>

>> Problem:

>>

>> The UK ranges are incorrect according to the USA

>> ranges. One medical

>> organization known as AACE has proven to have the

>> most accurate

>> ranges. So far my specialists have denied me

>> treatment despite my

>> shocking problems. They have given me treatments,

>> which are very

>> basic i.e. Testosterone shots only. I had one shot,

>> which should be

>> effective for a month, and it did not work at all. I

>> think I have met

>> a decent doctor after all, who said to my GP, I need

>> scans and long

>> term treatment, so he made a special request to get

>> to see me ASAP.

>> He moved me from private to on the NHS. His name is

>> Professor Mehul

>> Tulsidas Dattani.

>>

>> I need:

>>

>> -HGH (human growth hormone) or also known as GH

>> (growth hormone)> to

>> cause trunk (spine) growth.

>> -HCG or also known as rHCG > to cause sperm and

>> testicle growth.

>> -E2 Suppressor > to cause sperm, testicle, penis and

>> masculine growth

>> (to keep the female hormone E2 down and maintained).

>>

>> -Testosterone shots > to maximise my growth.

>> -To try Caverject and see if it works > to see if I

>> have nerve

>> problems with my penis or not.

>>

>> 1/ Will be used for 2-4 years, used daily. (Until

>> real growth is seen

>> i.e. trunk growth I will continue using it).

>>

>> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

>> a) rHGH 0.6 IU c) 31 d) QD

>>

>> Note: Adjust dose according to growth response,

>> monitor IGF-1,

>> maintain levels at maximum tolerable levels for 6

>> months, if growth

>> goals are not progressing, discontinue treatment.

>>

>> 2/ Will be used for 6 months, used daily. (Within

>> this time,

>> hopefully the doctor should have nuked the source

>> that over produces

>> the E2, female hormone, which can be found from MRI

>> and ultrasound

>> scans).

>>

>> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

>> a) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin 500IU c) 60 d)

>> BID

>>

>> Note: Separate dosages by 12 hours, adjust up or

>> down according to

>> resultant serum testosterone levelsBrands: A.P.L.,

>> Chorex-10, Chorex-

>> 5, Choron-10, Gonic, Novarel, Ovidrel, Pregnyl,

>> ProfasiPharmacy allow

>> syringes compatible with medication.

>>

>> 3/ Will be used to maintain the E2. (Will be stopped

>> if the source of

>> the E2 over production can be nuked).

>>

>> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

>> a) Tamoxifen 20mg c) 17 d) notes

>> a) Tamoxifen 10mg c) 12 d) notes

>>

>> Notes: Begin 40mg per day until the symptoms abate,

>> and then taper to

>> 20 mg QD for 3 days, then 10mg 3 days, then 5mg QD.

>> Use accurate Pill

>> cutter for 10mg pills.

>>

>> 4/ No idea on testosterone shots yet, as they will

>> be used to

>> maximise the growth during along with the other

>> treatments. So blood

>> tests will be needed to see how much of testosterone

>> I do need to

>> keep me growing, until eventually my E2 source is

>> nuked, and the HCG

>> helps my testicles to develop. The doctor should

>> calculate how much

>> Testosterone it will require to max me out whilst I

>> am on my

>> treatment. Testosterone should rise all by itself

>> once the high E2 is

>> down

>>

>> Final:

>>

>> My natural growth years are almost finished, I still

>> have a chance

>> and I am not giving up. My growth was messed up so I

>> have to

>> minuplulate my system into thinking I am a growing

>> child again.

>> People can grow upto the age of 24. I will need

>> penile and scrotal

>> ultrasounds, and blood vessel and blood flow checks

>> on my penis and

>> groin and testicles, to see if I have any PHYSICAL

>> damage. If I do, I

>> also need to see a special urologist too. The

>> caverject should help

>> answer that too. If it works, then it is a good sign

>> there is no

>> physical problem. So far, Cialis and Muse 1000 have

>> not made me

>> erect. I will need an enodcrine scan, and my problem

>> could be related

>> to my pituitary. I am a twin with a sister, so I may

>> have an ovary,

>> so I need an abdominal ultrasound to make sure.

>> Never having

>> erections is very rare and bizarre. I know I need a

>> lot of MRI scans,

>> and even treatment if any are not working how they

>> should be.

>>

>> Thank you for taking your time to read this...If you

>> can offer any

>> real help, and knowledgeable information please help

>> me...Thnx. All

>> this detail and medication is from my research and

>> help from an

>> American pharmoseutical researcher...he is 100% sure

>> this treatment

>> wil work, and has seen it in different cases, from

>> the AACE medical

>> treatments. He has also given me a forum,

>> where people similar

>> to me, have been diagnosed and treated far better

>> than what the

>> average specialist has said. Thank you for

>> reading...x.. It is so

>> hard, I am terrified but yet determined.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

>> only half of what you see. "

>> Phil

>> __________________________________________________

>>

>=== message truncated ===

>

>

>

> ___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Yes I feel it's your low cortisol levels this gave me Bronchitis every winter

for the last 15 yrs and sines infections yr. round. Going on Cortef I don't

have this anymore.

Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...> wrote: yea i got the

RX info for that, and by the way i

forgot to let you know I also have:

-a common cough for some years

-i spit saliva everyday, and i av a bin next to on my

pc where spit into a lot

-i have a leaky nose 24/7 and i LITERALLY use 2-3

TISSUES per day on wiping my nose, for well over a

year now, and i cough, and pour a lot of saliva

any ideas????

--- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> When you try Tam. make sure when you stop it you

> come off it slow lowering the dose by the week then

> you need to be off it about 4 to 6 weeks to test E2

> you can't get a good test if the med is still in

> your body.

>

> Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> wrote: thnx,

>

> i meant to say nuke the E2 source, so that my e2

> comes

> in the 20-40 range,,,the american way,,,,,not 120,

> the

> UK way,,

>

> if tamofixen does not work,,,then i will need

> arimidex

> to try,,but my E2 is high according to the USA

> updated

> ranges, and it does play a role,,,thnx again, x

>

> --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

>

> > All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man

> > boobs and in some men will make your LH go higher

> > making more testosterone. This is a link from a

> > Body Building site pay this no mind it is full of

> > the info you need about this. For me Tamofixen did

> > not move my E2.

> >

> >

>

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2

> > I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2

> > never heard of this you need it to live you can't

> > just kill it.

> >

> > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > wrote:

> > are you saying that tamofixen (e2

> > suppresing pill)

> > will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but

> i

> > am

> > not relying this on life, this is only during the

> > time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked

> > and

> > the rest of the problems solved.

> >

> > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> >

> > > I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him

> an

> > > Email telling him your problems and I am sure he

> > can

> > > hook you up with a Dr.

> > >

> > > I see your E2 is on the high side but not all

> that

> > > bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> > > this is to high and I get ED that the pill will

> > not

> > > help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> > > they do dam good.

> > >

> > > I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> > > look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> > > ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me

> on

> > > Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> > > Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my

> units

> > > over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> > > ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how

> to

> > > read it. It can also show if your have a

> pituitary

> > > problem.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208

> > > Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a

> great

> > > read.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

> > > Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

> > >

> > > Manterno Salerno <brownsaucylicious@...>

> > > wrote:

> > > Here are my results:

> > >

> > > (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> > > (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> > > (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> > > (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> > > (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> > > (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> > > (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> > > (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> > > (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> > > *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

> > >

> > > (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> > > (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

> > >

> > > These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors

> > keep

> > > saying I am normal depsite my problems standing

> > out

> > > so

> > > clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

> > >

> > > My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a

> > normal

> > > blood test.

> > >

> > > Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> > > Supplementary Result

> > >

> > > I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> > > failed.

> > > I have still never had an erection. I know my E2

> > is

> > > high as the American ranges say that the E2 for

> > men

> > > should be between 13-50 and the AACE says,

> 25-40.

> > I

> > > am

> > > 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have

> ordered

> > > Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And

> i

> > > will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> > > seems

> > > gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who

> > knows

> > > what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to

> try.

> > > and

> > > i am going to use one this week, with a

> urologist,

> > > and

> > > the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> > > know

> > > i need hgh injections and on top need to supress

> > my

> > > e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t

> > rise,,and

> > > on top my testicles and penis should develop as

> > they

> > > should have done so, and get my erections

> coming.

> > i

> > > am

> > > also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> > > such

> > > a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i

> > hope

> > > there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite

> and

> > > help one another...thnx everyone xx

> > > --- philip georgian <pmgamer18@...> wrote:

> > >

> > > > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know

> > how

> > > > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it

> > made

> > > me

> > > > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > > > driving up my E2. If he is this high just

> > getting

> > > > this down with Arimidex will make him feel

> > better

> > > > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get

> > his

> > > > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried

> to

> > > get

> > > > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > > > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I

> feel

> > > > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> > > Testosterone

> > > > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > > > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> > > link

> > > > is about older men but the problem is the

> same.

> > I

> > > > tried all the pills and could not get any wood

> > my

> > > ED

> > > > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did

> not

> > > > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life

> is

> > > > fine.

>

=== message truncated ===

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[Guest guest]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

The testosterone is not low, the E2 is not especially high and

certainly not high enough to cause any of the issues mentioned....but

a variation on Klinefelter is possible if indicated by clinical

presntation and if that is the case it should be tested for.

In fact the test would be a chromosomal test and not just specific to

Klinefelters.

SHBG does require testing though to ascertain a calculated free

testosterone level if a free testosterone test is not available

(which it probably wont be in the UK).

Growth Hormone is not low on the basis of a one off blood test, such

blood tests often result in low results...so on that front a

evocative/dynamic test, such as the Insulin Tolerance or Glucagen

test is required.

But I think these issue are currently beyond that which anyone can

help with at this time.

Summary:

> >>

> >> I am 18 years old///For my body, masculinity and my

> >> sexual organs, I

> >> have had a delay in development. And my hormones are

> >> not normal for

> >> an 18-year-old. I have had a constitutional

> >> delay///My growth ratio

> >> is very off, my trunk (mid-section/body/spine) is 4

> >> inches short.

> >> Making my arms and legs as long as a person who is

> >> 6ft2, whilst I am

> >> only 5ft10. My spread is 4 inches longer than my

> >> height///I lack

> >> primary sexual development and have not had any

> >> growth since 11 years

> >> of age///I have very little sexual function and I

> >> have not developed

> >> secondary sexual characteristics///My testicles are

> >> small and so is

> >> my penis, and I have never had an erection in my

> >> life///I have had

> >> hormone tests and I have excess E2 levels by a

> >> factor of 2 and

> >> marginal testosterone levels///I was able to do a

> >> fertility test, and

> >> it resulted in a 2% viable level (2% of sperms only

> >> work), my

> >> spermogensis is marginal.

> >>

> >> Problem:

> >>

> >> The UK ranges are incorrect according to the USA

> >> ranges. One medical

> >> organization known as AACE has proven to have the

> >> most accurate

> >> ranges. So far my specialists have denied me

> >> treatment despite my

> >> shocking problems. They have given me treatments,

> >> which are very

> >> basic i.e. Testosterone shots only. I had one shot,

> >> which should be

> >> effective for a month, and it did not work at all. I

> >> think I have met

> >> a decent doctor after all, who said to my GP, I need

> >> scans and long

> >> term treatment, so he made a special request to get

> >> to see me ASAP.

> >> He moved me from private to on the NHS. His name is

> >> Professor Mehul

> >> Tulsidas Dattani.

> >>

> >> I need:

> >>

> >> -HGH (human growth hormone) or also known as GH

> >> (growth hormone)> to

> >> cause trunk (spine) growth.

> >> -HCG or also known as rHCG > to cause sperm and

> >> testicle growth.

> >> -E2 Suppressor > to cause sperm, testicle, penis and

> >> masculine growth

> >> (to keep the female hormone E2 down and maintained).

> >>

> >> -Testosterone shots > to maximise my growth.

> >> -To try Caverject and see if it works > to see if I

> >> have nerve

> >> problems with my penis or not.

> >>

> >> 1/ Will be used for 2-4 years, used daily. (Until

> >> real growth is seen

> >> i.e. trunk growth I will continue using it).

> >>

> >> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

> >> a) rHGH 0.6 IU c) 31 d) QD

> >>

> >> Note: Adjust dose according to growth response,

> >> monitor IGF-1,

> >> maintain levels at maximum tolerable levels for 6

> >> months, if growth

> >> goals are not progressing, discontinue treatment.

> >>

> >> 2/ Will be used for 6 months, used daily. (Within

> >> this time,

> >> hopefully the doctor should have nuked the source

> >> that over produces

> >> the E2, female hormone, which can be found from MRI

> >> and ultrasound

> >> scans).

> >>

> >> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

> >> a) Human Chorionic Gonadotropin 500IU c) 60 d)

> >> BID

> >>

> >> Note: Separate dosages by 12 hours, adjust up or

> >> down according to

> >> resultant serum testosterone levelsBrands: A.P.L.,

> >> Chorex-10, Chorex-

> >> 5, Choron-10, Gonic, Novarel, Ovidrel, Pregnyl,

> >> ProfasiPharmacy allow

> >> syringes compatible with medication.

> >>

> >> 3/ Will be used to maintain the E2. (Will be stopped

> >> if the source of

> >> the E2 over production can be nuked).

> >>

> >> a) Medication Dose c) Qty d) Freq

> >> a) Tamoxifen 20mg c) 17 d) notes

> >> a) Tamoxifen 10mg c) 12 d) notes

> >>

> >> Notes: Begin 40mg per day until the symptoms abate,

> >> and then taper to

> >> 20 mg QD for 3 days, then 10mg 3 days, then 5mg QD.

> >> Use accurate Pill

> >> cutter for 10mg pills.

> >>

> >> 4/ No idea on testosterone shots yet, as they will

> >> be used to

> >> maximise the growth during along with the other

> >> treatments. So blood

> >> tests will be needed to see how much of testosterone

> >> I do need to

> >> keep me growing, until eventually my E2 source is

> >> nuked, and the HCG

> >> helps my testicles to develop. The doctor should

> >> calculate how much

> >> Testosterone it will require to max me out whilst I

> >> am on my

> >> treatment. Testosterone should rise all by itself

> >> once the high E2 is

> >> down

> >>

> >> Final:

> >>

> >> My natural growth years are almost finished, I still

> >> have a chance

> >> and I am not giving up. My growth was messed up so I

> >> have to

> >> minuplulate my system into thinking I am a growing

> >> child again.

> >> People can grow upto the age of 24. I will need

> >> penile and scrotal

> >> ultrasounds, and blood vessel and blood flow checks

> >> on my penis and

> >> groin and testicles, to see if I have any PHYSICAL

> >> damage. If I do, I

> >> also need to see a special urologist too. The

> >> caverject should help

> >> answer that too. If it works, then it is a good sign

> >> there is no

> >> physical problem. So far, Cialis and Muse 1000 have

> >> not made me

> >> erect. I will need an enodcrine scan, and my problem

> >> could be related

> >> to my pituitary. I am a twin with a sister, so I may

> >> have an ovary,

> >> so I need an abdominal ultrasound to make sure.

> >> Never having

> >> erections is very rare and bizarre. I know I need a

> >> lot of MRI scans,

> >> and even treatment if any are not working how they

> >> should be.

> >>

> >> Thank you for taking your time to read this...If you

> >> can offer any

> >> real help, and knowledgeable information please help

> >> me...Thnx. All

> >> this detail and medication is from my research and

> >> help from an

> >> American pharmoseutical researcher...he is 100% sure

> >> this treatment

> >> wil work, and has seen it in different cases, from

> >> the AACE medical

> >> treatments. He has also given me a forum,

> >> where people similar

> >> to me, have been diagnosed and treated far better

> >> than what the

> >> average specialist has said. Thank you for

> >> reading...x.. It is so

> >> hard, I am terrified but yet determined.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and

> >> only half of what you see. "

> >> Phil

> >> __________________________________________________

> >>

> >=== message truncated ===

> >

> >

> >

> > ___________________________________________________________

> >Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For

Good http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html

>

[Guest guest]

so your saying he has had a lot high levels of E2 then his 120 = in US 33

then he posted. If so he could try Indolplex/DIM first it's OTC supplement that

bring down bad E's converts them into good E's so the liver can wash them out.

Guys in the UK have ordered it from this link takes about 4 weeks to get it. If

he trys this let me know I can tell him how to take it so he does not go down to

low on his E2.

http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

Beckman <donaldb@...> wrote:

Were talking a different issue, were talking a young man stuck in

between

stage 3 and 4 puberty. I had suggested reduceing E2 as it was a primary

anti-development agent in the study I was in, and his is excessive. His twin

sister also has issues but af far as the is concerned her long leggs look

good, I would love to have the full panel and genotype on both of them. He

does have enough E2 in his system to inhibit the operation of his testes.

I know not my job anymore but I still cant help but to be fascinated with

the subject, since I im also a patient. My HGH levels happen to be within

12% low, on booster.

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of philip georgian

Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:34 PM

Subject: RE: Only 18 and trying too hard to get the treatment

I need ASAP.

All I am saying is Tamofixen is an good for man boobs and in some men will

make your LH go higher making more testosterone. This is a link from a Body

Building site pay this no mind it is full of the info you need about this.

For me Tamofixen did not move my E2.

HYPERLINK

" http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=150estro2 " http://www.t--nati

on.com/-findArticle.-do?article=-150estro2

I don't know what you mean about Nuking your E2 never heard of this you need

it to live you can't just kill it.

Manterno Salerno <HYPERLINK

" mailto:brownsaucylicious%40.co.uk " brownsaucylicious@-.co.-uk>

wrote:

are you saying that tamofixen (e2 suppresing pill)

will not help get my e2 down? it should do....but i am

not relying this on life, this is only during the

time, until the source of my high e2 can be nuked and

the rest of the problems solved.

--- philip georgian <HYPERLINK

" mailto:pmgamer18%40 " pmgamer18 (DOT) -com> wrote:

> I gave you a link to Nick O'Hara send him an

> Email telling him your problems and I am sure he can

> hook you up with a Dr.

>

> I see your E2 is on the high side but not all that

> bad. 120 in my units it is 33 pg/ml yet with me

> this is to high and I get ED that the pill will not

> help. Yet we have men with levels this high and

> they do dam good.

>

> I see a problem with your Cortisol levels they

> look to me to be dam low. 204 in my units is 7

> ug/dl. My test come back at 8 and my Dr. put me on

> Cortef 5mgs 4 x's a day. Levels this low are

> Adrenal Fatigue a good level would be in my units

> over 15 best at 20. You would do good to have an

> ACTH Stim test here is a link about it and how to

> read it. It can also show if your have a pituitary

> problem.

>

>

HYPERLINK

" http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=208 " http://forums.-realth

yroidhelp.-com/viewtopic.-php?t=208

> Also here is a FAQ's we did some time ago a great

> read.

>

>

HYPERLINK

" http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/ " http://www.stopthet-

hyroidmadness.-com/adrenal--info/faq/

> Your IGF-1 look dam good to me mine is 210.

>

> Manterno Salerno <HYPERLINK

" mailto:brownsaucylicious%40.co.uk " brownsaucylicious@-.co.-uk>

> wrote:

> Here are my results:

>

> (TSH) 1.42 (0.27-4.20) mU/L

> (Free T4) 15.7 (12.0-22.0) pmol/L

> (FSH) 6.8 (1.5-11.4) U/L

> (LH) 7.7 (1.7-8.6) U/L

> (Oestradiol) 120 (28-156) pmol/l

> (Prolactin) 215 (86-324) IU/ml

> (Testosterone) 16.6 (9.9-27.8 ) nmol/l

> (17 OH-Progesterone) 2.66 (0.90-10.00) nmol//l

> (Androstenedione) 3.16 (0.68-10.00) nmol/L

> *Cortisol (Rdm)* 204 nmol/L

>

> (IgF 1) 785 (197-956) ng/ml

> (Binding Protein 3) 5.33 (1.50-4.60) mg/L

>

> These were my endocrine results. The UK doctors keep

> saying I am normal depsite my problems standing out

> so

> clear! With the USA ranges, I am not normal.

>

> My HGH came too low >>> I done this through a normal

> blood test.

>

> Serum growth hormone = 0.1 ml.U/L (0.0 - 10.0)

> Supplementary Result

>

> I tried Muse 1000, Cialis 20mg, and they both

> failed.

> I have still never had an erection. I know my E2 is

> high as the American ranges say that the E2 for men

> should be between 13-50 and the AACE says, 25-40. I

> am

> 120! And the UK ranges is 25-156!!! I have ordered

> Tamoxifen to start the suppression of my E2. And i

> will find the source with my next doctor, has he

> seems

> gd and wants me to do scans, finally a dr who knows

> what he is doing! Now i av 2 caverject 20 to try.

> and

> i am going to use one this week, with a urologist,

> and

> the other with my friend. to see the response. i

> know

> i need hgh injections and on top need to supress my

> e2. the e2 being suppressed will make my t rise,,and

> on top my testicles and penis should develop as they

> should have done so, and get my erections coming. i

> am

> also going to take HCG. and i really owe it DON,

> such

> a great guy!!! i owe it to him big time,,and i hope

> there r more ppl like him,,so we can all unite and

> help one another...thnx everyone xx

> --- philip georgian <HYPERLINK

" mailto:pmgamer18%40 " pmgamer18 (DOT) -com> wrote:

>

> > Hi it's great your helping him I need to know how

> > high his E2 is I was up over 90 pg/ml and it made

> me

> > dam sick yet I was on TRT and the T meds were

> > driving up my E2. If he is this high just getting

> > this down with Arimidex will make him feel better

> > and if he got wood with the Muse he might get his

> > wood just getting E2 down. When my Dr. tried to

> get

> > my E2 down we did everything but Arimidex and

> > nothing worked. Tamoxifen did nothing and I feel

> > his high E2 levels could he keeping his

> Testosterone

> > levels down and messing with his Thyroid and

> > Cortiosl levels here is a link about this. The

> link

> > is about older men but the problem is the same. I

> > tried all the pills and could not get any wood my

> ED

> > was so bad a pill even doing Muse shots did not

> > work. Today and I am 63 my wood and sex life is

> > fine.

> >

> >

>

HYPERLINK

" http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1174 " http://jcem.-endojo

urnals.-org/cgi/content/-full/89/3/-1174

> >

> > Also there is a web site run by Nick O'Hara

> > here is a link to his site he can help find him a

> > Dr.

> > HYPERLINK " http://www.androids.org.uk/ " http://www.androids-.org.uk/

> >

> > Don <HYPERLINK " mailto:donaldb%40boaterspc.com " donaldbboaterspc (DOT) -com>

wrote:

> > Oh I have to chime in on this one, as ive been

> > working with him for some

> > time. This kid has had some major shit getting

> > treatment, his arms are 4”

> > wider than his and he is asominac , no night wood,

> > severely underdeveloped

> > testes that I would have guessed at stage 2. He

> got

> > told too long “its in

> > his head”. Since mid pubertal delay was my

> > specialty, I have been giving him

> > some help from my education, my professors, Dr

> > Crissler, and even this

> > group. The kid has an E2 pump basically somewhere

> > antagonizing his T,

> > suppressing development. HE also had possible

> > vascular insult, he had

> > hernias bilateral when a baby and undecended

> > testicles. 2 Muse 1000s cant

> > get him hard. I’m hoping it was misapplication but

> > he has 2 caverjects to

> > try, after that I think he REALLY needs a penal

> > ultrasound with Doppler to

> > figure why the “”last resort” ED meds are not

> > working.. MRI of the

> > pituitary, adrenals, and thyroid.

> >

> > ly, I think his physical fitness is from sure

> > will. I wont go into it

> > but he exercises more than half of us combined..

> >

> > One issue im severely concerned about, the patient

> > has a twin sister, and we

> > have yet to receive cross genetic testing. Nor has

> > ultrasound or CT been

> > done of our friend to check for extra parts. He

> had

> > severe gyno at 13. I

> > frankly wouldn’t mind ordering a fully body low

> > resolution MRI.

> >

> > In my internship at a cross project of 2 major

> > pharmaceutical companies, I

> > helped in the experimental endocronologic

> treatment

> > in over 1500 young men

> > and women, and I was one of them… They didn’t have

> > the ancers then, we still

> > don’t. I never “got to know” them like out friend

> > here, I really hope he can

> > achieve his minimum goals at least, from the

> bottom

> > of my heart.

> >

> > 6 years ago I would have had the resources of a

> > billion dollar lab to help

> > our new member out, yet that is the past.

> >

> > -Don

> > Organic chemistry major with specialization of

> > adolescent endourologic

> > proteins in humans, UTA Arlington

> >

> > BTW, class one of endo 101, Professor said:

> > What im going to teach you is made up from

> primitive

> > observation, and

> > sometimes whole cloth. This is what we THINK we

> know

> > what these hormones do.

> > Never assume anything. We know nothing yet.

> >

> > It sucks no having a professor to countersign my

> > RXs. Half a dam semester &

> > grad, the tumor I had just couldn’t wait..

> >

> > One thing being in this group has taught me. My

> 101

> > teacher was spot on.

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: HYPERLINK

" mailto: %40 " @-groups.-com

> > [mailto:HYPERLINK

" mailto: %40 " @-groups.-com]

>

=== message truncated ===

____________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_________-_

Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good

HYPERLINK

" http://uk.promotions./forgood/environment.html " http://uk.promotion

-s./-forgood/environm-ent.html

Co-Moderator " Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you

see. "

Phil

------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:24:26 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:

>my e2 is high according to the usa ranges and the AACE

>american ranges, i checked with DON, with the ranges,

>using the same units. and also,,,i asked why is my GH

>low???????? cos i hate my body, i am 4 inches off

>ratio on my trunk,,,is it linked with the pitutary or

>wat? why is so low,,,

>

>thnx,,x

You are not hearing what is saying. We measure E2 differently

in America than in Europe. The units are different.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

US measures E2 in pg/mL. picograms per millilitre

Europe measures in pmol/l . Picomoles/liter

Your numbers need to be converted for comparison.

Here is a table for these conversions.

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/clinical_data.html

Your levels equate to 32.68 in US units. This is not high. Most of us

shoot for somewhere in the 25 to 35 range. (Below 20 you start

experiencing negative effects also.)

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:03:30 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:

>By the way, I am 19 now, and I am a teen growing into

>an adult, so my case is different.

>

>On top, I cannot stop at all from taking the Tam. as

>my E2 level would just rise again. Somewhere in my

>body, something is pumping out extra E2.

NO it is not! Don't self treat now. You are confused your levels are

normal.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:58:55 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Were talking a different issue, were talking a young man stuck in between

>stage 3 and 4 puberty. I had suggested reduceing E2 as it was a primary

>anti-development agent in the study I was in, and his is excessive.

His is not excessive. He is unfamiliar with the difference between US

and European units.

[Guest guest]

actually i had all the units changed by my ex-professor on several

separate tests, he feels the boy is high on E2 too. Im closing my

involvement in the subject as i am working with his GP and endo and to

go on would violate hipaa laws, in theory anyways, international. Im

relaying treatment methods we have used to them and it is their choice

what to use. We know something went wrong but due to the current lack

of real testing, we have insufficient data. His T was also borderline

low for their stadards and nearly twice their E2 standard before

treatment of any type began, so the s currently are not what they used

to be. He's had a few boosts so number are changing..

at p!!zr we likes E2 levels ultra low in developing young men for

proper development.

good luck my friend, Ill be out of the hospital this time hopefully in

24h.

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:42:30 -0000, you wrote:

>

>at p!!zr we likes E2 levels ultra low in developing young men for

>proper development.

What do you call ultra low? Low E2 causes impotence and bone density

issues and saps energy, focus and mental clarity as much as low T.

[Guest guest]

My E2 is on the high end of the UK range.

The UK range is 25-156. (Can you see the massive

range)

My level was 120.

I have the symptons of high E2, which my GP has

agreed, and on the fact that my E2 is high.

Part of my therapy, I am going to get my E2 down to

the lower end, as in between 30 and 40 using the UK

ranges.

--- retrogrouch@... wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 01:42:30 -0000, you wrote:

>

> >

> >at p!!zr we likes E2 levels ultra low in developing

> young men for

> >proper development.

>

>

> What do you call ultra low? Low E2 causes impotence

> and bone density

> issues and saps energy, focus and mental clarity as

> much as low T.

>

___________________________________________________________

Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good

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[Guest guest]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:13:11 +0000 (GMT), you wrote:

>

>Part of my therapy, I am going to get my E2 down to

>the lower end, as in between 30 and 40 using the UK

>ranges.

A 30 translates to an 8 on the American scale. I've been that low over

shooting my Arimidex target.That made me feel horrible. You lose all

sexual feeling. You lose energy, clarity and focus. I would think a

target above 60 would be a more reasonable goal.

[Guest guest]

Nothing you say is going to have any impact....no one is lietening

unfortunately and the advice he has been getting is certainly odd and

notforthcoming to this board under the guise of privacy- which quite

frankly is ludicrous as anyone here is perfectly able to detail such

information with the say so of the person being treated- that is what

everyone does on this site after all- offer up private information.

This E2 level keep being referred to as very high, well, my E2 is

between 175 and 240pmol/l....

I wonder what that equates to then?

Fact is my E2 is high and a problem as evidenced previously by the

growth of breasts.

His E2 on the other hand is boarderline elevated at worst!!

And as a growing adolesant/man it is nothing remtotely abnormal....I

know this for a fact as I have viewed the pathology of thousands of

young men over the last three years via a gynecomastia website.

The idea of bringing that E2 down to between 20-40 on the UK range is

insane and utterly wrong.

Furthermore the treatment of tamoxifen and such like without regard for

genertic testing and further more in-depth endocrine testing to

elucidtae any issue is despicable, and potentially very harmful to

someone still going thorugh puberty.

>

> >

> >Part of my therapy, I am going to get my E2 down to

> >the lower end, as in between 30 and 40 using the UK

> >ranges.

>

>

> A 30 translates to an 8 on the American scale. I've been that low over

> shooting my Arimidex target.That made me feel horrible. You lose all

> sexual feeling. You lose energy, clarity and focus. I would think a

> target above 60 would be a more reasonable goal.

>

[Guest guest]

Look > I myself have breasts ok? Not too big, or

extreme, but they are visible! Getting my E2 to lets

say near 40, but not too low, could also help my

problems. On top, I also consist of feministic

characteristics, in many ways, in a lot of ways. High

E2 also causes > shrinkage of testicles, stunts penile

growth, causes sperm count to decrease. For me, my

body is not taking the E2 at its level, and yes I am

considering other therapy as well!

And yes, MY GP IS LISTENING to me, so don't tell me no

one is listening. If I have my e2 near 40, but not too

low, it will help decrease my problems. This is only

part of the therapy.

And yes I have said before, I have had my chormosol

genetic testing. From too hospitals. For one I

mentioned the doctor to check for Kallman's and

Klinefelter's syndromes.

And again, my T is not on the high end, and I consist

of problems that partly also link with E2.

E2 causes sperms count to drease. My LH is high, but

sperm count is low, my T is in the low range, it is

not how it should be for a teen. On top, my E2 is on

the higher range. For MYSELF (not you) I may need to

balance them out, and I do have the symptons of high

E2, for my body. I am going to keep it in 40 within

the UK ranges. Because my symptons also show signs of

what E2 does. Example > E2 causes low sperm count. I

have 2% functional sperms, only 2%! But my LH is high,

and my T is borderline, ok, but not high. So think

now? Why 2%? This is part of the problem. And I do

need my pituitary checked, which my GP and specialist

said will do. On top before that my GENETICAL tests

would have arrived.

So think again, if my genetics are ok, now can you

make a theory > of what is my problem? Why are

testicles, penis small in growth not changed since age

11 as I can 100% remember as far back. And why no WOOD

at all, zero, none, but a mere soft semi erection

only? Why? Any suggestions? A theory only, a guess,

for now, considering my genetics are ok. (We will find

out in 2 weeks as results will be arrived).

--- chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> Nothing you say is going to have any impact....no

> one is lietening

> unfortunately and the advice he has been getting is

> certainly odd and

> notforthcoming to this board under the guise of

> privacy- which quite

> frankly is ludicrous as anyone here is perfectly

> able to detail such

> information with the say so of the person being

> treated- that is what

> everyone does on this site after all- offer up

> private information.

>

> This E2 level keep being referred to as very high,

> well, my E2 is

> between 175 and 240pmol/l....

>

> I wonder what that equates to then?

>

> Fact is my E2 is high and a problem as evidenced

> previously by the

> growth of breasts.

>

> His E2 on the other hand is boarderline elevated at

> worst!!

>

> And as a growing adolesant/man it is nothing

> remtotely abnormal....I

> know this for a fact as I have viewed the pathology

> of thousands of

> young men over the last three years via a

> gynecomastia website.

>

>

> The idea of bringing that E2 down to between 20-40

> on the UK range is

> insane and utterly wrong.

>

> Furthermore the treatment of tamoxifen and such like

> without regard for

> genertic testing and further more in-depth endocrine

> testing to

> elucidtae any issue is despicable, and potentially

> very harmful to

> someone still going thorugh puberty.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >Part of my therapy, I am going to get my E2 down

> to

> > >the lower end, as in between 30 and 40 using the

> UK

> > >ranges.

> >

> >

> > A 30 translates to an 8 on the American scale.

> I've been that low over

> > shooting my Arimidex target.That made me feel

> horrible. You lose all

> > sexual feeling. You lose energy, clarity and

> focus. I would think a

> > target above 60 would be a more reasonable goal.

> >

>

>

>

___________________________________________________________

Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good

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[Guest guest]

The UK range is 25-128, considering my last post as

well, if read open mindedly, I am sure if the genetics

turn out to be fine, then a logical step as " part " of

the treatment will be to maintain the E2 near 40, not

below, or too low, just near it.

--- chis_az <chis_az@...> wrote:

> Nothing you say is going to have any impact....no

> one is lietening

> unfortunately and the advice he has been getting is

> certainly odd and

> notforthcoming to this board under the guise of

> privacy- which quite

> frankly is ludicrous as anyone here is perfectly

> able to detail such

> information with the say so of the person being

> treated- that is what

> everyone does on this site after all- offer up

> private information.

>

> This E2 level keep being referred to as very high,

> well, my E2 is

> between 175 and 240pmol/l....

>

> I wonder what that equates to then?

>

> Fact is my E2 is high and a problem as evidenced

> previously by the

> growth of breasts.

>

> His E2 on the other hand is boarderline elevated at

> worst!!

>

> And as a growing adolesant/man it is nothing

> remtotely abnormal....I

> know this for a fact as I have viewed the pathology

> of thousands of

> young men over the last three years via a

> gynecomastia website.

>

>

> The idea of bringing that E2 down to between 20-40

> on the UK range is

> insane and utterly wrong.

>

> Furthermore the treatment of tamoxifen and such like

> without regard for

> genertic testing and further more in-depth endocrine

> testing to

> elucidtae any issue is despicable, and potentially

> very harmful to

> someone still going thorugh puberty.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > >

> > >Part of my therapy, I am going to get my E2 down

> to

> > >the lower end, as in between 30 and 40 using the

> UK

> > >ranges.

> >

> >

> > A 30 translates to an 8 on the American scale.

> I've been that low over

> > shooting my Arimidex target.That made me feel

> horrible. You lose all

> > sexual feeling. You lose energy, clarity and

> focus. I would think a

> > target above 60 would be a more reasonable goal.

> >

>

>

>

___________________________________________________________

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