Re: Re: Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

November 13, 2006

hi the one endo i did see ie that one for 9 minutes

who asled me no questions i showed small bits of

paperwork from websites american urology and endo

information/pituitary foundation in uk,an email from a

professor at the actual hospital ,but he only does

research.

to me the bllod is simple enough but its rubbished in

uk by nhs in the main only private docs will see youm

and that costs.

if your figrue arre way low then NHS i am sure is

better but when they say you are in normal range

depite being low its hard and as this guy said

basically a load of rubbish to me,i knew more than

hime

my bloods to me and info on here points to hypo

secondary,he said no thats rubbish as hypo secindary

and primary i would have elevated lh and fsh

which i know you and i both know is pure rubbish and

dont intend putting my self in the hands of an endo

who knows not even basics on low t.

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

>

> I feel your pain . Have others in Europe from

> this site, offer some solutions on the health care

> situation over there yet?

>

> In America, its easier to hop from doctor to doctor,

> for multi opinions. If you have the money and

> insurance you can without problems.

>

> I think , its a time where you are going to have

> to rely on what you have learned and take your

> judgement in conluding what you are.

>

> You have taken blood tests and talked with Endo

> Specialist. You understand your health history and

> how that is connected toward your situations

> currently.

>

> In situations where you do not have the best

> doctors, you must understand how to read your blood

> tests in better understanding your situations.

>

> Once again, if you are seeing a doctor for low T,

> why can't you present detailed information on what

> you have learned in here and else where? Why cant

> you say, I want to try this at this doses and if

> not, let me see your superior?

>

> Remember, its your health and not anyone else's.

> Continue to ask questions in here and find other

> medically based forums, where you can email or post

> toward qualified medical professionals online. If

> you cannot find a doctor locally, the net can help.

> Its a time , where you have to take control and

> stop relying on others, because they will continue

> to let you down.

>

> I went a whole year in an Endo center that didnt

> understand my condition. I didnt give up and I found

> a center that could offer more. The rest was and

> still is, up to me to correct. Im here , if you

> want to go over your blood results, etc. Im not as

> fine tuned as the other experienced members here,

> but I will research and find solutions with you

> friend.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 13, 2006

Boy did you take that the wrong way I was only suggesting this because some of

your post sounded personal to each other.

Just forget it I never said it.

Phil

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

No offense taken Phil. If I felt the need to private email , I

would have. I may address , but that doesn't stop others from reading and

hopefully finding some kind of support as well. Support Phil and not

complaining.

I don't offer anything of contradiction when folks come in here and share. I

didn't say anything when you voiced Phil, on over 20 years without being on the

proper TRT. I learned from that and tried to offer support your way the best I

could. You have taught me so much on how to properly manage my health and

research.

Don't worry, I see what we have been thru isn't being received well by others

secretly. I will amend. So, Ill sit back as others who are also suffering from

hypogandism share the kind that doesn't upset a few in here.

I have shared other avenues I am traveling toward to and whom-ever else

reading. The learning disability services globally, that offer allot of free

programs of over coming. I have shared, try correcting all elements internally

you feel is needed, in living a more successful life

Same as Im doing now. I also shared, the importance of researching and relaying

that toward your doctors. Not getting upset when doctors refuse to try different

avenues. Patience in any health situation is ideal. Monitoring ones personal

health should be ideal in any health situation, especially when you dont have a

support structure.

So, if you feel sharing is personal and only effects , then Ill chat with

him in private, but I hope someone doesn't feel excluded, even when we dont

personally address that person. Sharing and support I thought was the sentiment

of Hypogandism 2.

---------------------------------

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November 13, 2006

Hello , once again, I didnt state primary males have normal ranges of lh and

fsh. If they did, that means hypogandism isnt a concern. Hypogandism-like side

effects could be present if low T exist and both levels of lh and fsh are

normal.

, perhaps you should google.com " hypogonadism " for starters, just take your

time away from this forum and others, and just learn on your pace. I had to and

still learning.

Review the causes for secondary and primary , on your pace and hopefully,

you will not be so confused.

Hormones are not profitable as diabetes thus, why Endos dont really seek more

information on hormones. The specialist that do and patients, now display their

works and research online. Its important , you just search on your own and

understand your condition on your own pace.

Stop for a bit, getting confused on other folks findings in here, and just

explore and put all that you have learned together and conclude from there.

It doesnt matter if you are primary and secondary right now. Until you go

in, and demand the right blood works to conclude, continue to research.

Fact is you need a TRT that works with your body.

Fact, you may need other relative medications to control your hypogoandism.

I.E. anti depressiants, anti estrogen, therapy, etc

Fact, you must stop getting upset and loosing hope and just start taking matters

of your health into your own hands.

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: again this does not make sense to me

both type have

some form of low fsh/lh,but theny you say primary

males have high lh and fsh in same sentence

then really low lh/fsh is a problems with

testicles,trouble is differsant doctors and labs class

differant things as low or really low or indeed many

of us are classed within normal range by many labs.

also on secondaryt i was under impression its not the

testis sending sigs to the brain ,its the brain

sending isgs through the prituitary to the testis but

i suppose its as bit of both signals both ways getting

lost.

also on puberty no i did not go through a normal

puberty things that should of happened did not the

only things that did was hair and voice change.

did you get hair and vocie change or have any puberty

qat at all??

i dont beleive its as black and white as some think,i

am sure many of us prioamry or secondary have some

puberty issues,becasue some hormones may be lacking ie

testosterone but others may of gone up at time of

puberty,some signals may of got through and others did

not.

also how does ssomeeon get both primary and secondary?

what would there bloodwork show,as it cant show both

high lh/fsh and low at same time,so how does one get

such diagnosis?

i think endos themselves are only just waking up to

male sex hormone issues,in uk we are 20 plus yrs

behind usa but even there we still gwet people with

probems being told there blood is ok,even though its

low side of normal so they say and having bad affects

on those peopple.

the thing is even in medical terms there are massive

differances in what a doc may say is normal

as my testosteron seems to stay low but does vary

between 4.6 nmol to 10.5 nmol that too would indicate

that signals somehwere are indeed getting lost.

but for a man of 40 should be around 23 nmol my lh and

fsh again show as in normal range but only one or two

points into normality and not the higher end they

should be,for priomary both of those should be

abnormally high ,whjeras as my testosterone/lh and fsh

should be in top two thids and not bottom third as it

is at moemmnt,but as said ,if the traits i have in

other ways can be stimulated enough by ritalin then

that may help,if not we go bck and look at other

things

regards paul

>

> Both hypogoandism type males have some form of low

> Lh and Fsh. I'm sure I didnt type , primary

> males have high LH and FSH. Really low LH, FSH, and

> low T indictates a disorder within the testicles.

> Rather, the testis or both cannot properly send the

> signal to the brain in producing enough hormone for

> normal daily functioning life.

>

> That's the easy part to understand. Secondary males,

> are the opposite. The testicles can produce hormone

> but the brain signal is unbalanced. Pituary

> problems. HCG acts like a a bridge to re-stimulate

> where the Pituary fails.

>

> , if your testicles are mature in size and

> width, also firm that indicates something good.

>

> If your testicles are small in size, width, very

> sensitive, and soft that indicates a more serious

> issue of their developments.

>

> If I am incorrect anyone correct me.

>

> Common sense would indicate, if the testis never was

> able to produce, HCG would be meaningless. Dr.

> also agrees via his web pages.

>

> I dont think I stated you must have went thru proper

> puberty. Actually, from what you told me, I thought

> the opposite. Its cool. Sorry you read incorrectly.

>

> Im not reading others perceptions neither ,

> other than contradictions. You need opinions and Im

> not reading them by more experienced members here.

> Don't worry , I won't give up on you. How can

> I........

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> more powerful email and get things done faster.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 13, 2006

i do look at hypogonadism

to me its simple

hypogonadism primary is

only the basic diabgosis that is

low total t

elevated fsh

elevated lh

wheras seciondarry is

low total t

low or poss normal lh

low or poss normal fsh

trouble is the cut offs for low are differant in every

lab,and while some endos may see someone who has

figure for secondary in bottom third and accept thats

low,most doctors say " you are in normal range so whats

the prroblems "

its just in that last mail to me you got both written

down strange i only cut nad pasted how you had written

it.

this is what yoy put and i think you just made an

error but it lost me at first

primary

> > males have high LH and FSH. Really low LH, FSH,

> and

> > low T indictates a disorder within the testicles.

> > Rather, the testis or both cannot properly send

> the

> > signal to the brain in producing enough hormone

> for

> > normal daily functioning life.

the problems arise when i have seen that some guys can

have both primary and secindary,if so how on earthdoes

an endo decide that,how would ones lh and fsh

present??

also i am not in anyway losing hope??

i am stating i have no interrest in wanting to have

sexual or other relationships or more than the limited

freindshios,i have no interest in working or living

within my community

to me thats empoweing and not givin up hope,i have no

interrest in my fellow community i dont particualarly

like this world we live in,and wish to let it carry on

on its path of destruction and leave me to get on with

my hermit existence.

yes i admit unless ritalin or trt or other drugs do

the job then my life will stay the same in other

areas,which is why the ritalin ie adhd stuff takes

priority for several rreasons

1=access to a wordls top expert in the field

2=ok local medical support

3=the fact it may kick start parts of my brain that

need it,but not like trt do anytihng with the sexiual

side that i am not after,the only trt sides i am after

are those that affect the same things as the adhd ie

concnetation/lethargy/get up and go and so on.

so because trt is only going to be trt ,no hcg no

eostrogen no other support,adminsitered by someone who

has little knowledge in this area and not even giving

the right tests and check ups as required by our NHS

then i would be foolish to starrt trt with this guy.

if in august i had seen the person i was recomdend by

proffesor tom mchnichols then the current situation

may well of been differant with no doubt trt and the

other things needed to balance out the trt.

but that was not to be,i can only hope this lady has

her baby probably has by now and i can at some stage

if she goes back to work get a refereal back to her

,but again now rtialin is a week away from start then

a good few months of that unless it does nasty things

first off that it,if it does then a quick rethink onto

next plan of action,but thats still not likley to be

trt,another adhd med at first ,then i can say

" ok i have ttired the adhd things to no avail " lets

get back onto the trt and hypogonadism or andropause

side of things and see what the situation is regarding

this

though its posible the next blood tests i have for

this i may also have to pay gfor,the NHS in uk is

making gwetting blood tests for free a rarity,we have

been told now only if a doctor actually requests blood

tests will you get them for free,so if my doc does not

requast but i do,then i may have to pay.

luckily some docs dont care about such charges i had

to get another sign off for my loan insurance today by

rights thats 13 quid but as uusal she just does it for

me.

but blood tests may be harder to get for free.

so dont think i dont tske trt seriously i do,but its a

case of dong things in order and not trying to sort

out all issues at once,which with meds is counterr

productive as any med can produce unwanted results

with another so best to start each one clean and see

the effect good or bad.

regards paul

also if i had an endo that listened and the backing of

a health system that listened then yes all those

things you say i shuold ask for and idneed salready

have would come my way,sad fact is they dont not

unless you have money to pay for them.

you can gwet limited stuff ie for 12 weeks or so free

but i need contant reminding telling me something on

monday does not mean i now can deal with it by

thursday,so these 12 weeks or so courses/therapies are

of no use whatsoever

ie even did a 30 week social skills course which i did

pay for and have to travel into london forr,but now

its all a distant memory.

they did have plans to just keep it going,but the

place itn hapend at a freinds house with a

phycoloigsit her husband did not like 12 people a week

in his house so it all ended.

counsleeing in uk is 40 quid an hour

therapy god knows

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hello , once again, I didnt state primary males

> have normal ranges of lh and fsh. If they did, that

> means hypogandism isnt a concern. Hypogandism-like

> side effects could be present if low T exist and

> both levels of lh and fsh are normal.

>

> , perhaps you should google.com " hypogonadism "

> for starters, just take your time away from this

> forum and others, and just learn on your pace. I had

> to and still learning.

>

> Review the causes for secondary and primary , on

> your pace and hopefully, you will not be so

> confused.

>

> Hormones are not profitable as diabetes thus, why

> Endos dont really seek more information on hormones.

> The specialist that do and patients, now display

> their works and research online. Its important ,

> you just search on your own and understand your

> condition on your own pace.

>

> Stop for a bit, getting confused on other folks

> findings in here, and just explore and put all that

> you have learned together and conclude from there.

>

> It doesnt matter if you are primary and secondary

> right now. Until you go in, and demand the

> right blood works to conclude, continue to research.

>

> Fact is you need a TRT that works with your body.

>

> Fact, you may need other relative medications to

> control your hypogoandism.

> I.E. anti depressiants, anti estrogen, therapy, etc

>

> Fact, you must stop getting upset and loosing hope

> and just start taking matters of your health into

> your own hands.

>

> paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: again this

> does not make sense to me both type have

> some form of low fsh/lh,but theny you say primary

> males have high lh and fsh in same sentence

>

> then really low lh/fsh is a problems with

> testicles,trouble is differsant doctors and labs

> class

> differant things as low or really low or indeed many

> of us are classed within normal range by many labs.

>

> also on secondaryt i was under impression its not

> the

> testis sending sigs to the brain ,its the brain

> sending isgs through the prituitary to the testis

> but

> i suppose its as bit of both signals both ways

> getting

> lost.

>

> also on puberty no i did not go through a normal

> puberty things that should of happened did not the

> only things that did was hair and voice change.

>

> did you get hair and vocie change or have any

> puberty

> qat at all??

>

> i dont beleive its as black and white as some

> think,i

> am sure many of us prioamry or secondary have some

> puberty issues,becasue some hormones may be lacking

> ie

> testosterone but others may of gone up at time of

> puberty,some signals may of got through and others

> did

> not.

>

> also how does ssomeeon get both primary and

> secondary?

>

> what would there bloodwork show,as it cant show both

> high lh/fsh and low at same time,so how does one get

> such diagnosis?

>

> i think endos themselves are only just waking up to

> male sex hormone issues,in uk we are 20 plus yrs

> behind usa but even there we still gwet people with

> probems being told there blood is ok,even though its

> low side of normal so they say and having bad

> affects

> on those peopple.

>

> the thing is even in medical terms there are massive

> differances in what a doc may say is normal

>

> as my testosteron seems to stay low but does vary

> between 4.6 nmol to 10.5 nmol that too would

> indicate

> that signals somehwere are indeed getting lost.

> but for a man of 40 should be around 23 nmol my lh

> and

> fsh again show as in normal range but only one or

> two

> points into normality and not the higher end they

> should be,for priomary both of those should be

> abnormally high ,whjeras as my testosterone/lh and

> fsh

> should be in top two thids and not bottom third as

> it

> is at moemmnt,but as said ,if the traits i have in

> other ways can be stimulated enough by ritalin then

> that may help,if not we go bck and look at other

> things

>

> regards paul

>

> >

> > Both hypogoandism type males have some form of low

> > Lh and Fsh. I'm sure I didnt type , primary

> > males have high LH and FSH. Really low LH, FSH,

> and

> > low T indictates a disorder within the testicles.

> > Rather, the testis or both cannot properly send

> the

> > signal to the brain in producing enough hormone

> for

> > normal daily functioning life.

> >

> > That's the easy part to understand. Secondary

> males,

> > are the opposite. The testicles can produce

> hormone

> > but the brain signal is unbalanced. Pituary

> > problems. HCG acts like a a bridge to re-stimulate

> > where the Pituary fails.

> >

> > , if your testicles are mature in size and

> > width, also firm that indicates something good.

> >

> > If your testicles are small in size, width, very

> > sensitive, and soft that indicates a more serious

> > issue of their developments.

> >

> > If I am incorrect anyone correct me.

> >

> > Common sense would indicate, if the testis never

> was

> > able to produce, HCG would be meaningless. Dr.

>

> > also agrees via his web pages.

> >

> > I dont think I stated you must have went thru

> proper

> > puberty. Actually, from what you told me, I

> thought

> > the opposite. Its cool. Sorry you read

> incorrectly.

> >

> > Im not reading others perceptions neither ,

> > other than contradictions. You need opinions and

> Im

> > not reading them by more experienced members here.

> > Don't worry , I won't give up on you. How can

> > I........

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a

> > more powerful email and get things done faster.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

> http://uk.messenger.

>

November 13, 2006

Hello , I'm proud of you for typing what you did. You manned up, so to

speak, and informed me you were pro active with your health and have researched

out side of this forum.

Normally, males with secondary have bonderline low lh and fsh levels and low T.

There is low T and there is low T, same with fsh and lh levels. Borderline is a

good thing, given the testicles is still functioning but the sending and

receiving to the puritary is the problem. Some signals get thru but not enough

thus, borderline .

Very low fsh and lh with very low T, indicates primary, given the testicles are

not producing but the puritary signal is fine. Its like with someone in a wheel

chair. Some where the nervous system stops sending the signals to use that

persons legs. There are causes just like secondary and primary.

Review different websites and compare what you have learned. Dont stop with

hypogandism, go deeper. Tesicluar Failure is the same term for primary, but on

some links different side effects.

There are causes for primary. A case history, current or prior medications,

accident, etc along with blood tests can conclude insteadly if a male is primary

or secondary.

Still, a doctor can put a male on HCG along with normal TRT. If the testicles

respond, indicates secondary which is treatable.

Also, you may want to have a scan for your purtiary gland. Dont forget your

prostate and tesiclar and learn how to spot any problems before they become

serious. You're within that age bracket and or you have prior case history.

If a male has high LH and FSH levels but low T, I would conclude its not full

blown hypogandism, rather a medication, etc that has caused hypgoandism-like

side effects. Treatable.

So, there are borderline LH and FSH and then there are very low along with very

low T.

If you want you can always post your last blood tests.

Perhaps, your pregnant doctor before she went on leave should have given your

active medical file toward the current doctor who is now taking over her work

load. That is how its done in America, Im sure its done there as well. Its a

shame she didnt tell you before she left, which Endo doctor was taking over her

case load.

You can check with that hospitals administration or simply call and ask

information concerning which doctor has been taking her case load. So, you

shouldnt have to wait until she gives birth in order to see a qualitied doctor

who is up to date with your situations and if he or she isnt, its your job to

inform.

Does your country have public health insurance? Does your country have teaching

and public hospitals that provide free and or affordable health coverage?

, medications are what they are. They are not cures, rather pills that help

lessen. Dont feel a pill for ADHD will make all your worries go away.

First, ADHD medications do not help you gain normal levels of hormone. So, you

still need to combat that element of your health.

Medications of all kinds, take a while to " kick in " . Also, with learning

disabilities, you need addition help. How to read, write, type, study, express,

etc can become a challenge for you without some form of asisstance, but with

assistance it can be very managable and controlled.

Atleast seek some information online and also if you can, take out a library

book on learning disabilities. There are numerous sites including UK, on

learning disabilities online.

If you feel your typing is a concern; why not try spell check before you sumit?

Until you get better at such, no one else has to know you have a problem.

A combination of therapy, TRT, and other professional help is what I am

realizing is needed to simply combat a hormonal unbalance.

I cannot conclude and I dont think any doctor can neither, if my learning

disabilities is a result from having a T failure, but it is a side effect.

The side effects take time to control and correct. Its a proccess but with

the right support around you, you can over come.

Hope I didnt offend you , but Im glad you typed what you did.

---------------------------------

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

November 13, 2006

Phil, me and you have always been cool. You have taught me allot and put me on

the correct path. I didnt take it the wrong way. You're right, but I feel if me

and go into private, someone new who could benefit, would be left out.

Thats it. That is what I was trying to explain.

You folks have lives and I dont want to type words that will make you'll day

sad, etc.

Trust me, I wish I can report to you folks cool stuff in my life, but please be

patient until I do.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

November 14, 2006

eliot mate you seem to be asying it again very low t

with very low lh and fsh is primary

its not primary is low t with higher fsh and lh ?

borderline really makes no differance to hypo

secindary you can have one guy with low t at below the

cut off point feleing better physically and mentally

than someone esle with testosteron and fsh/lh into the

norrmal ranges the fact is by what i have seen on here

and been told on here our ranges forr t and lh/fsh

should at whatever age we are be in thwe top two

thirds of the accepted t for each age

so me at 40 the t should be around 23.14 in fact mine

last time was 7.6 ie botoom thrid,not good ,if above

14 nmo/l than that would be better.

but on primary lh and fsh are above normal figures not

low at all.

sadly my free testosterone result seems to have got

lost its been now 2 mionths since i had it done and no

one seems to know where it is,my shbg came back from a

not usual lab,i had been told my free t weas being

done there too,my doc and the staff cant find at all

where it went to and who has done it if anyone.

so i still dont know what my free t is,again i have

seen on here guys with reasonable testosterone totals

but then there free t has been way down below normal

so for me knowing my free t is important so i ahve a

rough idea of whats going on and better fuller results

to show another diagnosiition if and when i may afford

to get a priovate one to at least diagnose but not

treat.

i enjoy your posts and thank yuou for them and yes

others should see them i dont see a big need for

private stuff others may look back in archives and see

things that affect them.

but i need to be sure your lh and fsh are abnormally

high and you have low t,if you have low t,low fsh and

low lh then you are also secindary and not primary i

am surre phil or someone can confirm this

low fsh /low lh low t=secindary and you can get this

any age its not all to do with when you get older,you

can get it at puberty i have seen nothing to suggest

one cant gwet it at puberty though yes primary is more

wideyl associated with undescended testicles,but again

one can in fact have both so maybe i di have both and

maybe you too as well.

andropause ie male menopause can start as a teenager

hjjust as menopause can in girls there are recorded

cases of girls at 13 with menopause and so will in

time more and more guys,its just at moemnt i feel male

sex issues are not as known as female,and still many

medics even dounbt andropause and hypogonadism of any

kind so its an uphill battle to put our issues in the

forefront as women finally did eith things like pmt

and menopause who too were ridiculed 30 yrs ago.

as for the guyts who have primarry and secindary i

still dont see what the blood work would show in such

cases and stil phil or anyone else know how dual

hypogonadism primary and secondary would therefore be

diagnosed ??

regards paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hello , I'm proud of you for typing what you

> did. You manned up, so to speak, and informed me you

> were pro active with your health and have researched

> out side of this forum.

>

> Normally, males with secondary have bonderline low

> lh and fsh levels and low T. There is low T and

> there is low T, same with fsh and lh levels.

> Borderline is a good thing, given the testicles is

> still functioning but the sending and receiving to

> the puritary is the problem. Some signals get thru

> but not enough thus, borderline .

>

> Very low fsh and lh with very low T, indicates

> primary, given the testicles are not producing but

> the puritary signal is fine. Its like with someone

> in a wheel chair. Some where the nervous system

> stops sending the signals to use that persons legs.

> There are causes just like secondary and primary.

>

> Review different websites and compare what you have

> learned. Dont stop with hypogandism, go deeper.

> Tesicluar Failure is the same term for primary, but

> on some links different side effects.

>

> There are causes for primary. A case history,

> current or prior medications, accident, etc along

> with blood tests can conclude insteadly if a male is

> primary or secondary.

>

> Still, a doctor can put a male on HCG along with

> normal TRT. If the testicles respond, indicates

> secondary which is treatable.

>

> Also, you may want to have a scan for your purtiary

> gland. Dont forget your prostate and tesiclar and

> learn how to spot any problems before they become

> serious. You're within that age bracket and or you

> have prior case history.

>

> If a male has high LH and FSH levels but low T, I

> would conclude its not full blown hypogandism,

> rather a medication, etc that has caused

> hypgoandism-like side effects. Treatable.

>

> So, there are borderline LH and FSH and then there

> are very low along with very low T.

>

> If you want you can always post your last blood

> tests.

>

> Perhaps, your pregnant doctor before she went on

> leave should have given your active medical file

> toward the current doctor who is now taking over her

> work load. That is how its done in America, Im sure

> its done there as well. Its a shame she didnt tell

> you before she left, which Endo doctor was taking

> over her case load.

>

> You can check with that hospitals administration or

> simply call and ask information concerning which

> doctor has been taking her case load. So, you

> shouldnt have to wait until she gives birth in order

> to see a qualitied doctor who is up to date with

> your situations and if he or she isnt, its your job

> to inform.

>

> Does your country have public health insurance? Does

> your country have teaching and public hospitals that

> provide free and or affordable health coverage?

>

> , medications are what they are. They are not

> cures, rather pills that help lessen. Dont feel a

> pill for ADHD will make all your worries go away.

>

> First, ADHD medications do not help you gain normal

> levels of hormone. So, you still need to combat that

> element of your health.

>

> Medications of all kinds, take a while to " kick in " .

> Also, with learning disabilities, you need addition

> help. How to read, write, type, study, express, etc

> can become a challenge for you without some form of

> asisstance, but with assistance it can be very

> managable and controlled.

>

> Atleast seek some information online and also if you

> can, take out a library book on learning

> disabilities. There are numerous sites including UK,

> on learning disabilities online.

>

> If you feel your typing is a concern; why not try

> spell check before you sumit?

> Until you get better at such, no one else has to

> know you have a problem.

>

> A combination of therapy, TRT, and other

> professional help is what I am realizing is needed

> to simply combat a hormonal unbalance.

>

> I cannot conclude and I dont think any doctor can

> neither, if my learning disabilities is a result

> from having a T failure, but it is a side effect.

>

> The side effects take time to control and correct.

> Its a proccess but with the right support

> around you, you can over come.

>

> Hope I didnt offend you , but Im glad you typed

> what you did.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 14, 2006

the female doctor had not seen me at all and this

other guy is her boss its just i was resomened to her

by someone who does trt androgel research,he due to

NHS protocoals cannot get involved at any other

level,all he did wqas on seeing my figures recomen me

getting a refereal from my own doc to this particualry

woman,and i thought this was odd he speciafilcally

asked me to go on here books and not her boss,my guess

is he is fully aware her boss is old school and does

not sit in very well with the latest research

the adhd meds may and i say may as i am yes extrmely

skeptical personally of them but i have seen personal

experiance of people both good and bad on ritalin and

other adhd meds,one lady i know is havign a bad time

on them,another guy had them for a yr it totally

cleared his head of all the confusion.the mistakes/the

letharrgy and moods and was able to comme off a yr

later having also gained promotion in his work.

he now can do things older than me that he had never

managed in past

so no my hormone issues will still be there but the

incrreae in all the other areas may just be enough to

get me going and trt is just as risky,dot think that

everyone going on trt is instantly improved,if so i

must of been reading some of these mails on here wrong

as many guys are still expeirancing problems,in some

cases going from one trt type to another ,haiving

problems with too much t or still too loew or

prolactin and estrradoil suddnemy gone high

to me that is way too much to deal with keep trying to

sort out dosages ,it woyuld take yrs ,say i get one

dosage in january ,in the nhs it would be 4 or more

months before i see and endo again ,to vchange the

dosage,that too is no good,so i wait another 4 months

to change again ,then we deicd to add somweting else

and again another 4 months wait.

i am assuming you in usa can just say on a monday to

endo,can i see you this week or next he says yes you

go discuss changes ,start straght away and away you

go,in uk its not like that,especially if you have an

endo who most definately does not know what

hypogonadism secondary and primary diagnosis is

again yes supposed to have a PSA before starting any

trt my age and history most definately show that on

NHS guidelines,this guy thjough wanted to do the PSA

on the 4 month of trt trial,depsite NHS saying no trt

must be given until psa is done!!

spo again warning signals flashed in front of me,do i

really want this guy on my privates!!

but do a psa for me would mean me having to be put in

hospital overnight and be on epidural or full

anesthetics as no way would i like it done wothout

that i have extrremem sensitivty issues and the

hospital know that on just penis examiniation i have

to be taken in on epidural put in a seperate ward with

onw nurse for night so to make me more relaxed and

then epidulral and exam.

thsats how i am at such things so that too would take

time to do

regards paul

no i am in no doubt ADHD meds first and foremost we

can re look at trt later,also hormone imballances can

be made worse by stress anxiety etc so if adhd meds

relieve tat then indeed its possible the t and lh/fsh

may improve even slightly ,i would like to see if that

happend or not,we really dont kno till we try

>

> You can check with that hospitals administration or

> simply call and ask information concerning which

> doctor has been taking her case load. So, you

> shouldnt have to wait until she gives birth in order

> to see a qualitied doctor who is up to date with

> your situations and if he or she isnt, its your job

> to inform.

>

> Does your country have public health insurance? Does

> your country have teaching and public hospitals that

> provide free and or affordable health coverage?

>

> , medications are what they are. They are not

> cures, rather pills that help lessen. Dont feel a

> pill for ADHD will make all your worries go away.

>

> First, ADHD medications do not help you gain normal

> levels of hormone. So, you still need to combat that

> element of your health.

>

> Medications of all kinds, take a while to " kick in " .

> Also, with learning disabilities, you need addition

> help. How to read, write, type, study, express, etc

> can become a challenge for you without some form of

> asisstance, but with assistance it can be very

> managable and controlled.

>

> Atleast seek some information online and also if you

> can, take out a library book on learning

> disabilities. There are numerous sites including UK,

> on learning disabilities online.

>

> If you feel your typing is a concern; why not try

> spell check before you sumit?

> Until you get better at such, no one else has to

> know you have a problem.

>

> A combination of therapy, TRT, and other

> professional help is what I am realizing is needed

> to simply combat a hormonal unbalance.

>

> I cannot conclude and I dont think any doctor can

> neither, if my learning disabilities is a result

> from having a T failure, but it is a side effect.

>

> The side effects take time to control and correct.

> Its a proccess but with the right support

> around you, you can over come.

>

> Hope I didnt offend you , but Im glad you typed

> what you did.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 14, 2006

Elliot you will be fine hell it took me 22 yrs. to find out what is the real

problem. I was not saying to stop posting just some of them look to me to be of

a personal bases. Maybe it's just me carry on.

Phil

ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

Phil, me and you have always been cool. You have taught me allot and

put me on the correct path. I didnt take it the wrong way. You're right, but I

feel if me and go into private, someone new who could benefit, would be

left out. Thats it. That is what I was trying to explain.

You folks have lives and I dont want to type words that will make you'll day

sad, etc.

Trust me, I wish I can report to you folks cool stuff in my life, but please be

patient until I do.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

November 14, 2006

Hello , I also enjoy reading your posts. Maybe Im wrong. I was under the

impression very low FSH and LH and Low T equal Primary Hypogonadism. It did in

my situation and I have researched. I may start adding links, etc to confirm my

findings.

, the low T while on a proper TRT, will work itself out. Get on the right

treatments and then focus on other areas of your life that need amending.

I'm sure in time you will go back to work. Hey, you went to college; I have

tried three times already and never got out of the second semister.

If you get anything out of our communications, note its all a process once you

have realized the problems and thus, seeked some form of treatment(s).

Medications and therapy can only take a human being so far; the rest is simply

up to us.

Continue the faith .

---------------------------------

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

November 14, 2006

Hahaha , you're not getting any action else where, so go ahead and let that

wanker doc on your privates. Just don't get hard. Had to think about something

else when an attractive doctor saw my gentialia. Hey, first time a female

actually wanted to see me naked. Thought about what-if..... Then I quickly came

back to reality so.....

Unfortunately , TRT alone isn't a cure, but it's a start. Yes, it is

dangerous, but what medication, FDA approved isn't? I'll continue to take the

limited risk while fighting off depression, Estrogen, and a few other concerns.

TRT isn't a cure but with other medications and therapy along with a new frame

of mind, I will improve and so can you.

Pretty much correct on American health. I just got in touch with one of my Endo

doctors just know. Need a new vial but I don't have an appointment. My fault for

not demanding I receive one every month for medication. I go to a hospital

rather than a small clinic; very impersonal but my insurance is cheap....

, you live either in the UK or England right? Neither are considered " Third

World Countries " . It must be a better way where you can see a qualified

Endrocrine Specialist under your budget and or health insurance.

Their are numerous medical articles from both countries all over the net,

including Endocrine. I worry you feel the situation in finding a qualified

specialist is precluded. Even if you have to take the bus or train 500 miles

which ever, then do it. You both can communicate via phone, email, and fax in

between visits.

Forget about the meanings of low T. From the blood tests you already taken you

need an Endo who is qualified to consult you on an universal treatment plan,

where the different elements of doctors come together and conclude what

treatment plan is best suited for your condition.

I had to figure out that on my own after trying numerous medications from Cardo

too ED. Realized I don't have ED just PE.

But, my Endo made sure I was seeing someone for meds and therapy. Other related

problems from Tesicluar Failure, was referred and addressed, because I spoke up

and told my Endo doc every little problem I had a concern towards. Before that I

told my general doc.

---------------------------------

Want to start your own business? Learn how on Small Business.

November 14, 2006

NP Phil and please carry on; you have earned that right. Hey, I will be alright.

I'm trying to let who is older also know its never to late to be alright

and content.

I worry to be honest, I will be his age within the same disposition. But, I

continue to have faith in myself. I still research and stay current on my

condition. I still see doctors every month and still inform them if something

isnt working or Im unbalanced then the normal.

Im good with computers. For the first time in my life I am good at something.

Now its a situation where I must read, and in time, pass some certificate tests.

I may try, Focus Factor.

The things I want to do, will need more than TRT and therapy.

I know what I must do and in time, I hope I can succeed. But, Im doing what I

must as a human being, to get better. Unfortunately for others and myself, that

isnt enough, but I realized it will have to do for now.

Phil, do you have to take TRT for the rest of your life as well?

What happens, if you do not take TRT for a cycle period?

What are some of the side effects that will re-surface?

The more I give myself a shot, the more I seem to do it wrong, given I FEEL THE

SHOT GO IN! BLAH!

Perhaps, someone like Brad or Phil, can convert the 330 too 400 MG I take per

two weeks into Androgel MG? (Any thing less and I will feel side effects).

I think I may want to try the gel again. Even if I have to do it every day.

---------------------------------

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November 14, 2006

hi i dont at this time or near futrue intend going

back into college worrk or relatiiosnhips i have had

enough of all

i prefer my own comonay and dont mix with others and

dont really want to mix with others

there is no point in priotitising the low t whne

thwere is no endo or support to do that,i would have

to be mad to look at that when the fist things i need

to do is to try adhd meds of various descriptions

if and when the local NHS get sufficient qulaified and

knowledgeble staff on male hormone issues then fine i

can re look at that area,but not while in earkly

stages of any other meds.

i suppose maybe one day i will work b ut what i n,i

have no skills no interests except my hobby which

would never gwt a proper job,andi dont like anyone

telling me what to do,and ifd working forr ones self

tying to suck up to people to keep them using my

business for example i would find impossibole to do.

of course wthi the adhd meds well who knows,my oultook

this time next week may of already started to

change,but i dont think even with perhaps better

concentration,my interest in doing anything is sitll

likley to be the same.

i have very narrow repeetitive obsessive interests

which is common in someone with aspergers

now if myt interest was computers or enginerring,games

desing,artistic talents and desingning etc then the

life of work for an aspie is a little bit easier,but

my interests are simply too narrow and i live only for

mysefl i have no interest in money wealth possesions

and fashion or education/work/relatioships and so on.

when my parents want to deciorate a rooom ,i say

why,to me a room is a box as long as something to

sleep on or sit on then what does it matter if its

untdiy bug ridden/smelly /unpainted and no other

furniture etc,my attitsued to worrking and diucation

is similar i always ask why do i need those

things,they have no interest for me.

i njoy the things i do afford to do from time to

time,enjoyment in moderation if i do something even i

enjoy too much i will overload and go hyper,so i have

lernt over time only since my diagnosisis to do things

slower and not allow mysefl to get oever excited.

it may sound odd to most people but its my world and

it although disabling in many ways i have to seek my

own way of navigating and enjoying what i do hold dear

and throwing out the things that cause too much

trouble.

i have been to college but i cant cope with the people

the noises or the work,just as i ciould not when

working just as i cant with people in general.

this is pretty typical aspie though as said those with

real interests in mainstream issues or high iq do

faire a bit better in then real world.

many aspies of normal iq like me dont work and are

unable to work we seek our pleasures in ways peculiar

to us and cast aside the needs most have ie

work/marriage/children/education buying a house and

doing all those mundane chorres life is expecting of

one.

but as others have now said

primary is most definately

low t

high fsh

high lh

if all 3 of those low then its secondarry i think brad

also aluded to this

so in this case are you low t,low lh and fsh if so

then hypo secondary is what it should be

but as said i still beleive we have a long way to go

on male sex hormone research and many things over the

next few yrs will be found

i forr one link having one hormone issue with others

so i have problems with suagr/glucose and insulin

i have most likely adrenal fatgiue as well

and of course the pituitaryt gland and problems with

lh/fsh

so thats at least 4 hormon issues i have and i think

this is similar for guys and girls ,having one hormone

issue should get medics looking at all.

also re the adhd aspergers etc its becming common

thinking to see that some of these issues are down to

signalling issues from the brain ,so this again ties

in with also the hormone issues and the sexual issues.

and also actual brain not formed correctly causing the

signalling faulty wiring so to speak.

a commion theme within me is brain signalling

issues,some temporary blocking,some overloading and

some not wsorking at all nou doubt

its interesting a know a lot of autistic male and

female with genitalia and sexual functioning/desire

issues,and also a lot of gender indetification issues

ie transexuals ,small genitalia in women and men as

well,again brain signalling

one professor digbyt tantum in uk has in past said he

has seen an unusually high incidence of sexual

gender/genitalia issues in autitstics children

with phimosis and non retractible foreskin[my foreskin

does not retract] and undescended testicles .

in the original hans aspergeers papers in 1944 he also

noted a high incidence of undescended testicles and

siad so on his first 7 subjects ,he only mnetioned one

as actually having undescended testicles but then

later alliuded to a high occurence of undesecended

testicles .

there is even a theory on autism that the woman has

some sort of testosterone abnormal rush into her

system at time of conception that somehow can cause

autism ,could this t rush cause sexual problems later

for the child i wonder??

could it explain my excess body hair but lack of some

other things??

who knows there is so much researrch into these things

and yes some are linking low t to autism as well.

even in the files of this group ifound an article

linkjing ADHD with sugar absoption issues and low t!!

very interesting

so anyway basically adhd ritalin is next week we shall

wait and see to say i am scared would be a massive

understatement it could kill me on first dose ,it

could increase concentration but also moods,if so i

will stop it,if however it does not increase

concetration but decreases moods and anxieity then i

will stick with it.

these meds have so many differant weffect on differant

people no one can say as yet,so i may be dead in a

week or well i cant say ,all i know its taken a long

fight ot get to this and i intend to try and see on

matter what the results i can at least say i tried .

then other tihngs in future

trt or adhd meds all have dangers,in fact on high

blood pressure trt is also not recomended .

and it does not suit all,and people have to keep

choppng and changing to find somethingf thayt works

and within the nhs that changing and adding

things,balancing things requires an expert on my side

and i dont have such an expert,whereas on adhd i have

a world renowned professor,cant get better thsn that

imo

is the trt you have working as you state you have same

issues as some of mine so that again suggests its not

going quite how you would like

thanks paul

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hello , I also enjoy reading your posts. Maybe

> Im wrong. I was under the impression very low FSH

> and LH and Low T equal Primary Hypogonadism. It did

> in my situation and I have researched. I may start

> adding links, etc to confirm my findings.

>

> , the low T while on a proper TRT, will work

> itself out. Get on the right treatments and then

> focus on other areas of your life that need

> amending.

>

> I'm sure in time you will go back to work. Hey, you

> went to college; I have tried three times already

> and never got out of the second semister.

>

> If you get anything out of our communications, note

> its all a process once you have realized the

> problems and thus, seeked some form of treatment(s).

> Medications and therapy can only take a human being

> so far; the rest is simply up to us.

>

> Continue the faith .

>

> ---------------------------------

> Access over 1 million songs - Music

> Unlimited.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

___________________________________________________________

The all-new goes wherever you go - free your email address from your

Internet provider. http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

November 14, 2006

its a snesitivlty issue anyone touchingf me has me

scraming shouting and crying and kicking legs out and

on attempts to look one time i nearly knocked doc and

nurse out

i also had one of those endoscopy things put dowen my

penis once ,with gel anaesthetic

yuo wont feel anytihng they said, i told them how

sensitive i was and they did not beleive me,they do

now thats all i will say

unless i am piut out i diont let anyone examine me.

and as for those communication in uk it does not work

that way at best in a hospital you may get the

speicalists secretarty,take my endo ,i speak to his

secetary she tells me off for contacitng her!!!

she says i should only go though hospital appointment

and only if you have been sent one,you cant just ask

for one cause you want one,NHS dont worry about

that,its all about how they work.

so you go to your own doc and ask to see the endo

again they wirte to the endos secretary she passes it

onto the appointments and at some time in future 4-6

months you get one for me a lovely whole 9 minutes of

no asking about my undescended testiclse and op,no

asking about sexualk functioning,all he said was hoe

he said the stuff i had sheon him was incorrect but

what he would do was tell my doc i was partial

andrognen deficient and neglected to tell me what that

was,thank god for internet so i ofund out whne i got

home!!

my doc says just stik eith the diagnosis he has given

even if he has got the diagnosis criteria for hypo

wrong.

so nothing else i can do there,i mention it on every

viisti to the doc and just leave it is the impression

i get ,well for now as adhd meds are imminent there is

no way i could do both as both will possibly add to my

blood pressure so one for now and thats ritalin

regards paul

as for helath insurances its not same as usa even

those with company health insurance to get any money

for these issues would be difficult.

the i could travel 600 miles but i can only do that id

my docs send a refereal i csnt just call the endo and

aay can i see you,it dont work like that,you have to

cionvince the doc then about 6 motnhs later you may

and i mean may get an appointment

yes if you can afford actual private then you phone 9

am in morning you ould very quiclky be in a

specialists office but even that is slowed sometimes

becasue even if going private for somthing the doc you

have has to refer you and he/she only does that if

they tihnk its an issue and ocnvincing them is hard

work sometimes.

but no the NHS has national guidelines if that says we

only offer one typoe of treatment and no other support

then that is it,you cant like in usa just ask lets try

this and that.

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Hahaha , you're not getting any action else

> where, so go ahead and let that wanker doc on your

> privates. Just don't get hard. Had to think about

> something else when an attractive doctor saw my

> gentialia. Hey, first time a female actually wanted

> to see me naked. Thought about what-if..... Then I

> quickly came back to reality so.....

>

> Unfortunately , TRT alone isn't a cure, but it's

> a start. Yes, it is dangerous, but what medication,

> FDA approved isn't? I'll continue to take the

> limited risk while fighting off depression,

> Estrogen, and a few other concerns.

>

> TRT isn't a cure but with other medications and

> therapy along with a new frame of mind, I will

> improve and so can you.

>

> Pretty much correct on American health. I just got

> in touch with one of my Endo doctors just know. Need

> a new vial but I don't have an appointment. My fault

> for not demanding I receive one every month for

> medication. I go to a hospital rather than a small

> clinic; very impersonal but my insurance is

> cheap....

>

> , you live either in the UK or England right?

> Neither are considered " Third World Countries " . It

> must be a better way where you can see a qualified

> Endrocrine Specialist under your budget and or

> health insurance.

>

> Their are numerous medical articles from both

> countries all over the net, including Endocrine. I

> worry you feel the situation in finding a qualified

> specialist is precluded. Even if you have to take

> the bus or train 500 miles which ever, then do it.

> You both can communicate via phone, email, and fax

> in between visits.

>

> Forget about the meanings of low T. From the blood

> tests you already taken you need an Endo who is

> qualified to consult you on an universal treatment

> plan, where the different elements of doctors come

> together and conclude what treatment plan is best

> suited for your condition.

>

> I had to figure out that on my own after trying

> numerous medications from Cardo too ED. Realized I

> don't have ED just PE.

>

> But, my Endo made sure I was seeing someone for

> meds and therapy. Other related problems from

> Tesicluar Failure, was referred and addressed,

> because I spoke up and told my Endo doc every little

> problem I had a concern towards. Before that I told

> my general doc.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on

> Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

___________________________________________________________

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and free. http://uk.docs./trueswitch2.html

November 14, 2006

Cool of you to comment Brad. I remember before I got on shots, last Feb. I was

taking 2.5 of the gel x 5 per day. It got to be too much.

I respond better to a higher doses. I tried around 1 and 2 ML, just to see so I

wouldn't have to keep going back per month and I quickly felt the side effects.

Neverous-ness, depression, self hate, etc.

The erections were still there, but given I'm not scoring......

I'll just stick to the shots for now. Get better at giving myself a shot. I do

it in the behind. *Realized that didn't read too well for a straight guy*.

But I will try the thigh next. Easier to manage my hands, rather than reaching

in the back.

---------------------------------

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November 14, 2006

Hey , nice post once again. So, what are you good at folks think it can be a

business?

Computers for me is hard to concept, but I am managing. I am into organization

around the studio to better learn how to handle my situations.

Its difficult for me not to feel sad about not having a girlfriend, but I try I

guess to learn more about computers.

I will be associating with the local learning disability department. Hopefully,

I can afford professional assistance. Every little bit helps.

Swallow-my-pride-time for me.

There is so many side effects from low T .

so i have problems with suagr/glucose and insulin

i have most likely adrenal fatgiue as well

and of course the pituitaryt gland and problems with

lh/fsh

I have a sugar range of around 110. Not diabetes but I understand that along

with

high cholesterol is side effects from hypogandism.

Its good you are relating toward folks within your situation. I hope you can

also find friendships online.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

November 14, 2006

Here I thought Tony Blair was getting things done over there in relation toward

quality health care.

Geesh, thats a bit rough. Is it a situation where you are very much ashamed of

your size or just have some withdrawnal toward being naked?

I remember during my teens, talking to my family doc that I felt my package was

abnormal. I remember each time I said my testes was smaller along with my size

he concluded the opposite. Go figure.

Get your visa and come over to America .

paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: its a snesitivlty issue anyone

touchingf me has me

scraming shouting and crying and kicking legs out and

on attempts to look one time i nearly knocked doc and

nurse out

i also had one of those endoscopy things put dowen my

penis once ,with gel anaesthetic

yuo wont feel anytihng they said, i told them how

sensitive i was and they did not beleive me,they do

now thats all i will say

unless i am piut out i diont let anyone examine me.

and as for those communication in uk it does not work

that way at best in a hospital you may get the

speicalists secretarty,take my endo ,i speak to his

secetary she tells me off for contacitng her!!!

she says i should only go though hospital appointment

and only if you have been sent one,you cant just ask

for one cause you want one,NHS dont worry about

that,its all about how they work.

so you go to your own doc and ask to see the endo

again they wirte to the endos secretary she passes it

onto the appointments and at some time in future 4-6

months you get one for me a lovely whole 9 minutes of

no asking about my undescended testiclse and op,no

asking about sexualk functioning,all he said was hoe

he said the stuff i had sheon him was incorrect but

what he would do was tell my doc i was partial

andrognen deficient and neglected to tell me what that

was,thank god for internet so i ofund out whne i got

home!!

my doc says just stik eith the diagnosis he has given

even if he has got the diagnosis criteria for hypo

wrong.

so nothing else i can do there,i mention it on every

viisti to the doc and just leave it is the impression

i get ,well for now as adhd meds are imminent there is

no way i could do both as both will possibly add to my

blood pressure so one for now and thats ritalin

regards paul

as for helath insurances its not same as usa even

those with company health insurance to get any money

for these issues would be difficult.

the i could travel 600 miles but i can only do that id

my docs send a refereal i csnt just call the endo and

aay can i see you,it dont work like that,you have to

cionvince the doc then about 6 motnhs later you may

and i mean may get an appointment

yes if you can afford actual private then you phone 9

am in morning you ould very quiclky be in a

specialists office but even that is slowed sometimes

becasue even if going private for somthing the doc you

have has to refer you and he/she only does that if

they tihnk its an issue and ocnvincing them is hard

work sometimes.

but no the NHS has national guidelines if that says we

only offer one typoe of treatment and no other support

then that is it,you cant like in usa just ask lets try

this and that.

--- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

> Hahaha , you're not getting any action else

> where, so go ahead and let that wanker doc on your

> privates. Just don't get hard. Had to think about

> something else when an attractive doctor saw my

> gentialia. Hey, first time a female actually wanted

> to see me naked. Thought about what-if..... Then I

> quickly came back to reality so.....

>

> Unfortunately , TRT alone isn't a cure, but it's

> a start. Yes, it is dangerous, but what medication,

> FDA approved isn't? I'll continue to take the

> limited risk while fighting off depression,

> Estrogen, and a few other concerns.

>

> TRT isn't a cure but with other medications and

> therapy along with a new frame of mind, I will

> improve and so can you.

>

> Pretty much correct on American health. I just got

> in touch with one of my Endo doctors just know. Need

> a new vial but I don't have an appointment. My fault

> for not demanding I receive one every month for

> medication. I go to a hospital rather than a small

> clinic; very impersonal but my insurance is

> cheap....

>

> , you live either in the UK or England right?

> Neither are considered " Third World Countries " . It

> must be a better way where you can see a qualified

> Endrocrine Specialist under your budget and or

> health insurance.

>

> Their are numerous medical articles from both

> countries all over the net, including Endocrine. I

> worry you feel the situation in finding a qualified

> specialist is precluded. Even if you have to take

> the bus or train 500 miles which ever, then do it.

> You both can communicate via phone, email, and fax

> in between visits.

>

> Forget about the meanings of low T. From the blood

> tests you already taken you need an Endo who is

> qualified to consult you on an universal treatment

> plan, where the different elements of doctors come

> together and conclude what treatment plan is best

> suited for your condition.

>

> I had to figure out that on my own after trying

> numerous medications from Cardo too ED. Realized I

> don't have ED just PE.

>

> But, my Endo made sure I was seeing someone for

> meds and therapy. Other related problems from

> Tesicluar Failure, was referred and addressed,

> because I spoke up and told my Endo doc every little

> problem I had a concern towards. Before that I told

> my general doc.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Want to start your own business? Learn how on

> Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

___________________________________________________________

Copy addresses and emails from any email account to - quick, easy

and free. http://uk.docs./trueswitch2.html

November 15, 2006

yes on all those too more things the same though not

surprising they do go hand in hand with low t be in

andropause orr hypogonadism

for adrenal fatigue it states on diagnosis [self

diagnosis i have seen] if you bp raises 10 points on

standing up on diastolic and systolic then its higlhy

likely you have it

wekll i have my own bp monitor and guess what it

raises 10 points from a sitting to stadning reading

blood sugar fasting yes morning was 6.9 nmo/ which is

124 in us terms though others rcently have been 6 nmol

108 and 6.3 nmol 113 mg/dl us figures

on eating foood including sugary stuff its alcuatlly a

bit lower usually 5.1 to 5.8 nmo/l 92-104

in usa this is pre diabetes in uk its impaired fasting

glucose .

7 nmol or i 126 mg/dl is now worldwide standard as

diabetes [thats on fasting ]

on friday i am having a glucose intolerence test i

asked my doc on mond and she agreed that would be ok

and worth doing,the thing is at 6.9 or lower the

strips and needles for my glucometer i have to pay for

if its higher then i get for free,the glucose test

will show for definate if my borderline figures are

enough

in fact i may cheat tell them i have had nothing but

eat some sugary foods before i go in,then i will

hopefully gwt a proper diabetes reading and then the

free prescrptions for the glucometer

regards paul

>

> There is so many side effects from low T .

>

> so i have problems with suagr/glucose and insulin

> i have most likely adrenal fatgiue as well

> and of course the pituitaryt gland and problems with

> lh/fsh

> I have a sugar range of around 110. Not diabetes but

> I understand that along with

> high cholesterol is side effects from hypogandism.

>

> Its good you are relating toward folks within your

> situation. I hope you can also find friendships

> online.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new

> beta.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

November 15, 2006

my sensitivities are not Tony blairs fault a lot of

stuff is lol but i will let him off that

no the staff are good and caring but for me i have

sensory oveload

i dont and cant wear jeweleery/watches/hats/jumpers/i

dont like being covered up much at home if parents

around shorts only if not then naked and bed time

too,i get very very warrm,can knock into things if

mobile phones and music playing while i am trying to

concetrate,and just cant bear to be touched much,you

should see the face i pull when i have my bllod done

it always makes the girls there smile.

if i go out i usually wear same main clothes for days

on end,have not changed my trouserrs now for 4

months,i only changed the last pair as a whole

developed in the pocket!!

same with smells i can freak out just smelling paint

or a ciggarete,grease smell also affects me,i eat

toast with knife and fork,cakes as well,dont like

getting butter or saucce on me.

think of how the tv detective MONK feels often if you

have ever seen him and you have me as weill in many

siutations.

though i am not someone who has to have it all clean

its just i dont like the taste and smells of things on

my body though love my own smells

to go out the door all conditions have to be right for

me and if any one then goes wrong thats me freaking

out again,its extremely exhausiting.

all my senses have things that make me feel i am

coming under attack from ,and of course that too does

not help when being in a relationship though i did try

and yes i did get naled with the last girl in the

end,but she did not touch me in that way,i was ok with

cuddling etc,in limited amounts,i use to hold her hand

for a few seonds then release as it was too much whci

always surprised her,so come bits are more bearable

than others and all sensitivty issues depend on other

things how i am on a speciifc day or time ,can make

one thingf more bearable at one time than the next.

again its commmon in the conditiona i have

--- ELLIOT BAKER <elliotbkr@...> wrote:

> Here I thought Tony Blair was getting things done

> over there in relation toward quality health care.

>

> Geesh, thats a bit rough. Is it a situation where

> you are very much ashamed of your size or just have

> some withdrawnal toward being naked?

>

> I remember during my teens, talking to my family doc

> that I felt my package was abnormal. I remember each

> time I said my testes was smaller along with my size

> he concluded the opposite. Go figure.

>

> Get your visa and come over to America .

>

> paul wey <promachief@...> wrote: its a

> snesitivlty issue anyone touchingf me has me

> scraming shouting and crying and kicking legs out

> and

> on attempts to look one time i nearly knocked doc

> and

> nurse out

>

> i also had one of those endoscopy things put dowen

> my

> penis once ,with gel anaesthetic

>

> yuo wont feel anytihng they said, i told them how

> sensitive i was and they did not beleive me,they do

> now thats all i will say

>

> unless i am piut out i diont let anyone examine me.

>

> and as for those communication in uk it does not

> work

> that way at best in a hospital you may get the

> speicalists secretarty,take my endo ,i speak to his

> secetary she tells me off for contacitng her!!!

>

> she says i should only go though hospital

> appointment

> and only if you have been sent one,you cant just ask

> for one cause you want one,NHS dont worry about

> that,its all about how they work.

>

> so you go to your own doc and ask to see the endo

> again they wirte to the endos secretary she passes

> it

> onto the appointments and at some time in future 4-6

> months you get one for me a lovely whole 9 minutes

> of

> no asking about my undescended testiclse and op,no

> asking about sexualk functioning,all he said was hoe

> he said the stuff i had sheon him was incorrect but

> what he would do was tell my doc i was partial

> andrognen deficient and neglected to tell me what

> that

> was,thank god for internet so i ofund out whne i

> got

> home!!

>

> my doc says just stik eith the diagnosis he has

> given

> even if he has got the diagnosis criteria for hypo

> wrong.

>

> so nothing else i can do there,i mention it on every

> viisti to the doc and just leave it is the

> impression

> i get ,well for now as adhd meds are imminent there

> is

> no way i could do both as both will possibly add to

> my

> blood pressure so one for now and thats ritalin

>

> regards paul

> as for helath insurances its not same as usa even

> those with company health insurance to get any money

> for these issues would be difficult.

>

> the i could travel 600 miles but i can only do that

> id

> my docs send a refereal i csnt just call the endo

> and

> aay can i see you,it dont work like that,you have to

> cionvince the doc then about 6 motnhs later you may

> and i mean may get an appointment

>

> yes if you can afford actual private then you phone

> 9

> am in morning you ould very quiclky be in a

> specialists office but even that is slowed sometimes

> becasue even if going private for somthing the doc

> you

> have has to refer you and he/she only does that if

> they tihnk its an issue and ocnvincing them is hard

> work sometimes.

>

> but no the NHS has national guidelines if that says

> we

> only offer one typoe of treatment and no other

> support

> then that is it,you cant like in usa just ask lets

> try

> this and that.

> --- ELLIOT BAKER wrote:

>

> > Hahaha , you're not getting any action else

> > where, so go ahead and let that wanker doc on your

> > privates. Just don't get hard. Had to think about

> > something else when an attractive doctor saw my

> > gentialia. Hey, first time a female actually

> wanted

> > to see me naked. Thought about what-if..... Then I

> > quickly came back to reality so.....

> >

> > Unfortunately , TRT alone isn't a cure, but

> it's

> > a start. Yes, it is dangerous, but what

> medication,

> > FDA approved isn't? I'll continue to take the

> > limited risk while fighting off depression,

> > Estrogen, and a few other concerns.

> >

> > TRT isn't a cure but with other medications and

> > therapy along with a new frame of mind, I will

> > improve and so can you.

> >

> > Pretty much correct on American health. I just got

> > in touch with one of my Endo doctors just know.

> Need

> > a new vial but I don't have an appointment. My

> fault

> > for not demanding I receive one every month for

> > medication. I go to a hospital rather than a small

> > clinic; very impersonal but my insurance is

> > cheap....

> >

> > , you live either in the UK or England right?

> > Neither are considered " Third World Countries " . It

> > must be a better way where you can see a qualified

> > Endrocrine Specialist under your budget and or

> > health insurance.

> >

> > Their are numerous medical articles from both

> > countries all over the net, including Endocrine. I

> > worry you feel the situation in finding a

> qualified

> > specialist is precluded. Even if you have to take

> > the bus or train 500 miles which ever, then do it.

> > You both can communicate via phone, email, and fax

> > in between visits.

> >

> > Forget about the meanings of low T. From the blood

> > tests you already taken you need an Endo who is

> > qualified to consult you on an universal treatment

> > plan, where the different elements of doctors come

> > together and conclude what treatment plan is best

> > suited for your condition.

> >

> > I had to figure out that on my own after trying

> > numerous medications from Cardo too ED. Realized I

> > don't have ED just PE.

> >

> > But, my Endo made sure I was seeing someone for

> > meds and therapy. Other related problems from

> > Tesicluar Failure, was referred and addressed,

> > because I spoke up and told my Endo doc every

> little

> > problem I had a concern towards. Before that I

> told

> > my general doc.

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Want to start your own business? Learn how on

>

> > Small Business.

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

>

___________________________________________________________

>

> Copy addresses and emails from any email account to

> - quick, easy and free.

> http://uk.docs./trueswitch2.html

>

November 15, 2006

Hello , how was your day?

So, it's not totally about your genitalia rather a phobia?

Wow, you had a gf that was cool with your size and stuff, and yet you chouldn't

do anything sexually with her?

It does scare me a bit, whenever I guess God allows me to be with a female, how

it would feel to be simply alone and touched. It will be orkward. I dont know

what Ill do if she starts kissing and stuff on me.

Well, on the positive, given Im honest about my condition now the trepidation

shouldnt be that great. So, what if it lasts a mere minute.

Its women who complain. A minute of sex should be rewarding.

You rock . We should crash TomKat wedding in India over the weekend.

---------------------------------

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